Kirk Hinrich Thread: Bucks Offering Up To $4M/yr (PG.43)

Bulldog23 · Post #461 » by **Bulldog23** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 1:56 pm

The possibilty of adding Lee and Hinrich and then retaining Asik...would make me very excited about the regular season and seeing how this team plays out. The team would be great defensively....I'd want to buy season ticket package...just to see that.

When Rose comes back...we can finally see how he looks off the ball with Kirk running the offense.

I'm excited...but part of me feels that instead of going for it...the Bulls probably get one of these three players..not all of them.

boogydown · Post #462 » by **boogydown** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:04 pm

Getting Lee and Hinrich and retaining Asik requires trading Rip Hamilton, Cutting Kyle Korver and Ronnie Brewer and getting Lee to agree to the MLE when Houston can offer more.

Doubtful.

Magilla_Gorilla · Post #463 » by **Magilla_Gorilla** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:09 pm

boogydown wrote:Getting Lee and Hinrich and retaining Asik requires trading Rip Hamilton, Cutting Kyle Korver and Ronnie Brewer and getting Lee to agree to the MLE when Houston can offer more.

Doubtful.

Huh?

We could sign Hinrich to the MMLE if he so desired. Asik will be matched and doesn't cost us any assets. Lee would require a trade and we'd need to send out approx 5 million in salary. If Houston doesn't want Watson/Brewer/Krover - I have to believe we could find a third team.

MLE is a pipe dream we shouldn't even consider.

biggestbullsfan · Post #464 » by **biggestbullsfan** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:10 pm

boogydown wrote:Getting Lee and Hinrich and retaining Asik requires trading Rip Hamilton, Cutting Kyle Korver and Ronnie Brewer and getting Lee to agree to the MLE when Houston can offer more.

Doubtful.

The hardest thing to do in that scenario would be trading Rip for cap space. Not many teams want an aging all star who broke down way too much last year and was probably faking most of it imo.

Maybe a Dallas would want him to fill out the roster to groom some of their younger guys. No one else makes sense to me.

SteveDobbs · Post #465 » by **SteveDobbs** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:13 pm

Bulldog23 wrote:
When Rose comes back...we can finally see how he looks off the ball with Kirk running the offense.

Does everyone seriously not remember what Kirk "running the offense" looks like? And this is when he was younger and better.

If Derrick is able to step foot on that court, he's the one I want dribbling out the shot clock, not Kirk.

biggestbullsfan · Post #466 » by **biggestbullsfan** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:15 pm

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:
boogydown wrote:Getting Lee and Hinrich and retaining Asik requires trading Rip Hamilton, Cutting Kyle Korver and Ronnie Brewer and getting Lee to agree to the MLE when Houston can offer more.

Doubtful.

Huh?

We could sign Hinrich to the MMLE if he so desired. Asik will be matched and doesn't cost us any assets. Lee would require a trade and we'd need to send out approx 5 million in salary. If Houston doesn't want Watson/Brewer/Krover - I have to believe we could find a third team.

MLE is a pipe dream we shouldn't even consider.

I think the fact that no one has come out to say the Bulls will match or are likely to match asik says alot more about the situation than it should. Almost every other player with an offer sheet says their team will match or that team has looked at options to replace that player.

I think its more likely the Bulls let asik walk or trade him than not. I think if we keep asik tho, we also keep Korver since we cant afford to bring in other real talent. CJ is on the fence either way. I think he is a better scorer than Kirk, probably not a better defender, and doesnt play as well off ball with Rose as Kirk does. But we dont keep Kirk and CJ.

Magilla_Gorilla · Post #467 » by **Magilla_Gorilla** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:16 pm

SteveDobbs wrote:
Bulldog23 wrote:
When Rose comes back...we can finally see how he looks off the ball with Kirk running the offense.

Does everyone seriously not remember what Kirk "running the offense" looks like? And this is when he was younger and better.

If Derrick is able to step foot on that court, he's the one I want dribbling out the shot clock, not Kirk.

Yeah, I think Bulldog is mistaken. If Hinrich and Rose are on the court together, Hinrich will be the one sliding over to the 2. Thats the reason the Bulls have been looking for combo guards instead of strictly PG's. They need a player who can slide to the 2 when Rose comes back.

boogydown · Post #468 » by **boogydown** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:18 pm

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:
boogydown wrote:Getting Lee and Hinrich and retaining Asik requires trading Rip Hamilton, Cutting Kyle Korver and Ronnie Brewer and getting Lee to agree to the MLE when Houston can offer more.

Doubtful.

Huh?

We could sign Hinrich to the MMLE if he so desired. Asik will be matched and doesn't cost us any assets. Lee would require a trade and we'd need to send out approx 5 million in salary. If Houston doesn't want Watson/Brewer/Krover - I have to believe we could find a third team.

MLE is a pipe dream we shouldn't even consider.

We're not going to use the MMLE on Hinrich.

Only way we get Lee from Houston is if we give them something they need.

weneeda2guard · Post #469 » by **weneeda2guard** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:22 pm

houston will not deal with us if we dont give them asik

houston and the bulls have been fighting tooth and nail over the asik for lee trade 2 seasons in a row.

no way they work a deal out to help us if we dont give them asik

i can see them doing it if we let asik go them though.

boogydown · Post #470 » by **boogydown** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:22 pm

As I have said a few times now, CJ has no future here. JL3 is who they want coming off the bench now, not Watson. Hinrich is a short term solution to Rose being out. When Rose comes back, Hinrich will be a Reserve PG or possibly play Backup SG Minutes especially with Rips history of injury.

If you deal Asik, it makes sense to get Camby back as a Temp Solution. 3 year deal, 3rd year team option, with Lee for Korver and Watson gives Houston the Backup PG they need badly now and we'll not match Asik. Essentially the deal is more like Lee + Camby for Korver + Watson + Asik but Asik is not included, we just won't match the offer.

Houston has Martin and Lamb already so the need for Lee is minimal now. Camby isn't long term and giving Camby a 3 year deal a little above the MMLE I think he'd be happy to sign here.

Rose / JL3 / Teague
Lee / Rip / Hinrich
Deng / Butler
Boozer / Gibson
Noah / Camby

Magilla_Gorilla · Post #471 » by **Magilla_Gorilla** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:23 pm

boogydown wrote:
Magilla_Gorilla wrote:
boogydown wrote:Getting Lee and Hinrich and retaining Asik requires trading Rip Hamilton, Cutting Kyle Korver and Ronnie Brewer and getting Lee to agree to the MLE when Houston can offer more.

Doubtful.

Huh?

We could sign Hinrich to the MMLE if he so desired. Asik will be matched and doesn't cost us any assets. Lee would require a trade and we'd need to send out approx 5 million in salary. If Houston doesn't want Watson/Brewer/Krover - I have to believe we could find a third team.

MLE is a pipe dream we shouldn't even consider.

We're not going to use the MMLE on Hinrich.

Only way we get Lee from Houston is if we give them something they need.

Then how are we getting Hinrich?

And yes, generally in order to trade with another team you have to give them something they want. Hence the third team if we cant find a common ground on players we have available.

boogydown · Post #472 » by **boogydown** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:26 pm

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:Then how are we getting Hinrich?

And yes, generally in order to trade with another team you have to give them something they want. Hence the third team if we cant find a common ground on players we have available.

It depends on the scenario. Like my proposal above, we actually will have the MMLE still. We could give Hinrich a deal a little below it I suppose. I guess I shouldn't say we won't because things are wide open right now.

Ralphb07 · Post #473 » by **Ralphb07** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:27 pm

boogydown wrote:My thinking then if we let Asik walk

Hinrich / Lucas III / Teague
Lee / Hamilton
Deng / Butler
Boozer / Gibson
Noah / Camby

Camby on a 3 year deal with the 3rd year being a team option gives us 2 years to figure out how fix this backup Center Spot. It gives Camby the potential to win on a contender and it also gives his a paycheck more than the MMLE.

We'd be over the tax by 5 or 6 million.

I've heard Gray and Randolph as potential bigs if O isn't back.

weneeda2guard · Post #474 » by **weneeda2guard** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:27 pm

boogydown wrote:As I have said a few times now, CJ has no future here. JL3 is who they want coming off the bench now, not Watson. Hinrich is a short term solution to Rose being out. When Rose comes back, Hinrich will be a Reserve PG or possibly play Backup SG Minutes especially with Rips history of injury.

If you deal Asik, it makes sense to get Camby back as a Temp Solution. 3 year deal, 3rd year team option, with Lee for Korver and Watson gives Houston the Backup PG they need badly now and we'll not match Asik. Essentially the deal is more like Lee + Camby for Korver + Watson + Asik but Asik is not included, we just won't match the offer.

Houston has Martin and Lamb already so the need for Lee is minimal now. Camby isn't long term and giving Camby a 3 year deal a little above the MMLE I think he'd be happy to sign here.

Rose / JL3 / Teague
Lee / Rip / Hinrich
Deng / Butler
Boozer / Gibson
Noah / Camby

i like that deal

and i also believe thats why houston offered that much to lee in the first place. they trying to force the bulls hands one way or the other to give them asik.

so if we hand them asik i think they do the other deal with us.

boogydown · Post #475 » by **boogydown** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:28 pm

My personal thought on Derek Fisher is that it's going to be either Brooklyn or Chicago that signs him. Maynor will be coming back so Fisher won't be playing much in OKC.

Ralphb07 · Post #476 » by **Ralphb07** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:29 pm

What I wonder is if the Bulls were able to extend when they had to make decisions on Watson and Brewer. If so they can do S&T for Kirk.

weneeda2guard · Post #477 » by **weneeda2guard** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:29 pm

i would love for the bulls to pick up anthony randolph

i think thibs could turn him into a monster. he athletic as hell.

but i would prefer camby.

boogydown · Post #478 » by **boogydown** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:33 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:
boogydown wrote:My thinking then if we let Asik walk

Hinrich / Lucas III / Teague
Lee / Hamilton
Deng / Butler
Boozer / Gibson
Noah / Camby

Camby on a 3 year deal with the 3rd year being a team option gives us 2 years to figure out how fix this backup Center Spot. It gives Camby the potential to win on a contender and it also gives his a paycheck more than the MMLE.

We'd be over the tax by 5 or 6 million.

I've heard Gray and Randolph as potential bigs if O isn't back.

As our Backup Center? Doesn't make sense. Maybe our 5th Big.

Guys the Bulls should pursue if No Camby

- Ronny Turiaf
- Trade for Kurt Thomas
- Euro Undrafted Centers
- Kwame Brown (doubtful)
- Jared Jeffries (doubtful)
- Nazr Mohammed (yikes)
- Tony Battie (not sure he can still play)
- Joel Przybilla (doubtful)
- Boris Diaw (More of a PF)

I'd go with Turiaf

Magilla_Gorilla · Post #479 » by **Magilla_Gorilla** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:33 pm

biggestbullsfan wrote:
Magilla_Gorilla wrote:
boogydown wrote:Getting Lee and Hinrich and retaining Asik requires trading Rip Hamilton, Cutting Kyle Korver and Ronnie Brewer and getting Lee to agree to the MLE when Houston can offer more.

Doubtful.

Huh?

We could sign Hinrich to the MMLE if he so desired. Asik will be matched and doesn't cost us any assets. Lee would require a trade and we'd need to send out approx 5 million in salary. If Houston doesn't want Watson/Brewer/Krover - I have to believe we could find a third team.

MLE is a pipe dream we shouldn't even consider.

I think the fact that no one has come out to say the Bulls will match or are likely to match asik says alot more about the situation than it should. Almost every other player with an offer sheet says their team will match or that team has looked at options to replace that player.

I think its more likely the Bulls let asik walk or trade him than not. I think if we keep asik tho, we also keep Korver since we cant afford to bring in other real talent. CJ is on the fence either way. I think he is a better scorer than Kirk, probably not a better defender, and doesnt play as well off ball with Rose as Kirk does. But we dont keep Kirk and CJ.

Reports have come out to say that - but teams sure as hell have not. It does absolutely zero good to come out and say we'll match until the offer is signed and delivered. Hell Houston could still raise the offer if they're sure we'll match.

And we can't trade him, so lets stop talking about that.

boogydown · Post #480 » by **boogydown** » Fri Jul 6, 2012 2:37 pm

Our best bet though is an European Center. I actually liked the one the Pistons just got. There are others though. Could work. I wouldn't be shocked if they pursued Oberto (he isnt an Euro).

Getting Marcus Camby though gives us a couple years to prepare for a guy to replace him. Camby is a solid option I think for now.