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A realistic look at 2014 FA and options

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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#81 » by nitetrain8603 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:22 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:Biggie I edited it. We could either send Dallas Hamilton's deal if Mayo wants around 7mil or if the Bulls are really brave, can cash in on Deng this summer. Deng is going to want a contract at 14mil IMO, especially being a 2 time all star which he wasn't last contract talks. Dallas would love Deng. We could work a S&T for Mayo and it would actually save the Bulls money this year.

With seeing Jimmy play and what Deng will want money wise. I think it would be smart to cash in and trade Deng for an offensive punch this summer.


This X's 10.
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#82 » by VolumePoster » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:26 pm

BullsFTW wrote:@ Volume Poster

Oladipo is great, don't get me wrong. I understand why you value him, and he may be available outside of the Top 10. But I feel like he's a bit overrated. A solid starter, but a star in the NBA, not quite sure yet.

Mirotic is awesome and he's an absolute steal. I don't question his ability, and I definitely agree RM underutilized him. They are a guard oriented basketball club.


Agreed on Mirotic. But again - if the Bulls feel Ben's the guy, or Archie goodwin, or whoever, they have to target that player. I trust their evaluation process more than any other FO in the NBA. Drafting is probably the only thing our FO does exceptionally well. Heck, the player might not even be in this year's draft.

But I think the draft - whoever and whenever it is - is the way to go.
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#83 » by BullsFTW » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:26 pm

This is just me, but I'd rather cash in Deng for a high lottery pick in the draft and get our SG then.

Would Washington be interested?

Bulls Get: Trevor Ariza and WAS 2013 Pick
Wizards Get: Luol Deng and CHI 2013 Pick
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#84 » by BullsFTW » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:27 pm

VolumePoster wrote:
BullsFTW wrote:@ Volume Poster

Oladipo is great, don't get me wrong. I understand why you value him, and he may be available outside of the Top 10. But I feel like he's a bit overrated. A solid starter, but a star in the NBA, not quite sure yet.

Mirotic is awesome and he's an absolute steal. I don't question his ability, and I definitely agree RM underutilized him. They are a guard oriented basketball club.


Agreed on Mirotic. But again - if the Bulls feel Ben's the guy, or Archie goodwin, or whoever, they have to target that player. I trust their evaluation process more than any other FO in the NBA. Drafting is probably the only thing our FO does exceptionally well. Heck, the player might not even be in this year's draft.

But I think the draft - whoever and whenever it is - is the way to go.


100% with you on this one

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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#85 » by PistolP » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:29 pm

We are not getting Mayo, that idea is over. He will opt out this summer and get a huge payday from someone.

Doing a S&T this summer will be very hard this summer since we can't go over the apron.

Hamilton needs to we waived by the moratorium in order to be unguaranteed. Similar to Watson/Brewer, but unlike Korver, he isn't an trade asset for S&Ts

Ben McLemore is a potential #1 pick. No realistic way we trade up for him.

Summer 2014 we will have $42m committed for just Rose, Noah, Taj, Jimmy & Teague. Add cap holds and a couple more draft picks and that is not a lot of cap space. We will not have room for both a MAX and Mirotic.

The max salary for a 10 year vet (i.e., in 2014 that's Lebron, Melo, Wade, etc.) is 35% of the cap, or $19.1m this season. It will be even more if the cap goes up.
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#86 » by coldfish » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:31 pm

A lot of you guys absolutely hate the "Detroit" model of building a team but look at Mayo. He isn't as good as Rip was when they won a title. After a blistering start, he has been "meh".

I would take Mayo on a reasonable contract but:
- He isn't going to get a reasonable contract
- He better be your 5th best player if you think you are building a title team
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#87 » by MrSparkle » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:32 pm

I also think Oladipo is a future star. He's very elastic, fast, jumps high, smooth with the rock, and has full SG size unlike pg Westbrook or undersized sg E. Gordon... Hits the floor hard on every play, gets right back up... Improving diff. parts of his game rapidly... I'd be shocked if he stays projected at #9 though, closer to June. If he solidifies his 3P shot, it's over. He, Rose and Jimmy would be vicious..
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#88 » by Ralphb07 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:32 pm

He was going to get alot more money from PHX which was guaranteed. From what I've heard as well, PHX would only give him a mutual option(player+team) if he really wanted a player option. Mayo's plan was to jump on with a team which gets on tv, wins and has great coaching while also giving him the ability to get paid. Dallas gave him the best shot at that since the Bulls already promised Kirk first and they couldn't get rid of Hamilton. Mayo's going to get double his salary once he opts out.


I heard the same. He wanted Bulls and Rose wanted Mayo. The Bulls just didn't have the finances to do it. People need to remember Mayo wanted 8-10 mil, Bulls couldn't swing that and went with Kirk. The market wasn't there for Mayo but when that was decided it was too late and the Bulls couldn't get rid of Hamilton.
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#89 » by BullsFTW » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:35 pm

PistolP wrote:We are not getting Mayo, that idea is over. He will opt out this summer and get a huge payday from someone.

Doing a S&T this summer will be very hard this summer since we can't go over the apron.

Hamilton needs to we waived by the moratorium in order to be unguaranteed. Similar to Watson/Brewer, but unlike Korver, he isn't an trade asset for S&Ts

Ben McLemore is a potential #1 pick. No realistic way we trade up for him.

Summer 2014 we will have $42m committed for just Rose, Noah, Taj, Jimmy & Teague. Add cap holds and a couple more draft picks and that is not a lot of cap space. We will not have room for both a MAX and Mirotic.

The max salary for a 10 year vet (i.e., in 2014 that's Lebron, Melo, Wade, etc.) is 35% of the cap, or $19.1m this season. It will be even more if the cap goes up.


True. But teams like Orlando, Washington, and Cleveland already have their SG of the future.
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#90 » by nitetrain8603 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:37 pm

PistolP wrote:We are not getting Mayo, that idea is over. He will opt out this summer and get a huge payday from someone.

Doing a S&T this summer will be very hard this summer since we can't go over the apron.

Hamilton needs to we waived by the moratorium in order to be unguaranteed. Similar to Watson/Brewer, but unlike Korver, he isn't an trade asset for S&Ts

Ben McLemore is a potential #1 pick. No realistic way we trade up for him.

Summer 2014 we will have $42m committed for just Rose, Noah, Taj, Jimmy & Teague. Add cap holds and a couple more draft picks and that is not a lot of cap space. We will not have room for both a MAX and Mirotic.

The max salary for a 10 year vet (i.e., in 2014 that's Lebron, Melo, Wade, etc.) is 35% of the cap, or $19.1m this season. It will be even more if the cap goes up.


If the Eric Gordon dream is still alive, then you better believe the OJ Mayo/Tyreke Evans dreams are still alive. Mayo will make less than Eric Gordon and will be around 8 million per year. If you trade one of Deng or Noah for picks or Cousins, you have enough room, plus you offloaded some salary. Don't forget about offloading Hamilton either.

Like I said before:

Rose
Mayo
Deng
Boozer/Gibson
Cousins

And you're sitting pretty.
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#91 » by nitetrain8603 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:40 pm

coldfish wrote:A lot of you guys absolutely hate the "Detroit" model of building a team but look at Mayo. He isn't as good as Rip was when they won a title. After a blistering start, he has been "meh".

I would take Mayo on a reasonable contract but:
- He isn't going to get a reasonable contract
- He better be your 5th best player if you think you are building a title team


I'm done looking at models, I'm looking at young upgrades. Mayo is a young upgrade over what we have at SG. Cousins would be a young upgrade over Noah. You're dumping salary in the process. You have Nikola(even though I'm not big on him) coming over. You still have Taj. There's two ways to improve your squad into a championship contender: Collusion(Miami) or take upgrades when they become available.
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#92 » by Sonny_D1 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:44 pm

Relying on the Prophet, aka Miritoc, to take us over the top is just asking for trouble.

Unless a Harden or disgruntled star type scenario presents itself, our best bet is going hard after Love or Cousins. In all likelihood, we could probably acquire either player with the following packages:

-Pick One: Noah or Deng
-Pick Two: Gibson, Butler, Miritoc, Charlotte Pick

Potentially leaving us with the following cores:

Rose
Figure it out
Deng/Butler
Gibson/Miritoc
Cousins

Rose
Figure it out
Butler
Love
Noah/Charlotte Pick
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#93 » by BIGGIEsmalls 23 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:47 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:Biggie I edited it. We could either send Dallas Hamilton's deal if Mayo wants around 7mil or if the Bulls are really brave, can cash in on Deng this summer. Deng is going to want a contract at 14mil IMO, especially being a 2 time all star which he wasn't last contract talks. Dallas would love Deng. We could work a S&T for Mayo and it would actually save the Bulls money this year.

With seeing Jimmy play and what Deng will want money wise. I think it would be smart to cash in and trade Deng for an offensive punch this summer.

Thanks for educating me on that, Ralph and Nitetrain8603 .
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#94 » by coldfish » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:47 pm

nitetrain8603 wrote:Like I said before:

Rose
Mayo
Deng
Boozer/Gibson
Cousins

And you're sitting pretty.


That team might be worse than today's team. You are projecting a lot on cousins who simply isn't very good right now.

Anyways, I'm bored of being negative. Reality bites. I'm going to just throw out a team:
Rose $17.6M
Mayo $8M
Butler $1.1M
Love $14.7M
Noah $11.1M
+
Gibson $7.6M

That's 60.1M for your top 6 guys fielding a team I think could be a serious contender. In order to make it happen you would have the following guys and assets you have to trade:
Hamilton $5M non guaranteed
Kirk $3.5M expiring
Deng $14M expiring
Boozer 2 years $31M (think three way deal where he goes to Brooklyn and Hump's expiring goes somewhere)
Teauge
Rights to Mirotic
Rights to Cha pick
Bulls 2013 pick
Bulls 2014 pick
Bulls 2016 pick

How do you get it done?

My thoughts:
Boozer to Brooklyn, Hump and 2 Bulls picks to Dallas, Mayo to Chicago
Deng, Cha pick, Teague, Mirotic, Bulls pick to Min for Love
Cut Hamilton
Keep Hinrich
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#95 » by BIGGIEsmalls 23 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:54 pm

coldfish wrote:Anyways, I'm bored of being negative. Reality bites. I'm going to just throw out a team:
Rose $17.6M
Mayo $8M
Butler $1.1M
Love $14.7M
Noah $11.1M
+
Gibson $7.6M

That's 60.1M for your top 6 guys fielding a team I think could be a serious contender. In order to make it happen you would have the following guys and assets you have to trade:
Hamilton $5M non guaranteed
Kirk $3.5M expiring
Deng $14M expiring
Boozer 2 years $31M (think three way deal where he goes to Brooklyn and Hump's expiring goes somewhere)
Teauge
Rights to Mirotic
Rights to Cha pick
Bulls 2013 pick
Bulls 2014 pick
Bulls 2016 pick

How do you get it done?

My thoughts:
Boozer to Brooklyn, Hump and 2 Bulls picks to Dallas, Mayo to Chicago
Deng, Cha pick, Teague, Mirotic, Bulls pick to Min for Love
Cut Hamilton
Keep Hinrich

Yes!!!!
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#96 » by Sonny_D1 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:03 pm

coldfish wrote:
nitetrain8603 wrote:Like I said before:

Rose
Mayo
Deng
Boozer/Gibson
Cousins

And you're sitting pretty.


That team might be worse than today's team. You are projecting a lot on cousins who simply isn't very good right now.


The thing is, mental issues aside, Cousins is VERY good right now. Playing for a crappy team and still only 22 years old. He's probably the biggest attainable lottery ticket out there right now.

Put him next to Rose and one of Deng or Noah and sky's the limit.
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#97 » by nitetrain8603 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:04 pm

coldfish wrote:
nitetrain8603 wrote:Like I said before:

Rose
Mayo
Deng
Boozer/Gibson
Cousins

And you're sitting pretty.


That team might be worse than today's team. You are projecting a lot on cousins who simply isn't very good right now.

Anyways, I'm bored of being negative. Reality bites. I'm going to just throw out a team:
Rose $17.6M
Mayo $8M
Butler $1.1M
Love $14.7M
Noah $11.1M
+
Gibson $7.6M

That's 60.1M for your top 6 guys fielding a team I think could be a serious contender. In order to make it happen you would have the following guys and assets you have to trade:
Hamilton $5M non guaranteed
Kirk $3.5M expiring
Deng $14M expiring
Boozer 2 years $31M (think three way deal where he goes to Brooklyn and Hump's expiring goes somewhere)
Teauge
Rights to Mirotic
Rights to Cha pick
Bulls 2013 pick
Bulls 2014 pick
Bulls 2016 pick

How do you get it done?

My thoughts:
Boozer to Brooklyn, Hump and 2 Bulls picks to Dallas, Mayo to Chicago
Deng, Cha pick, Teague, Mirotic, Bulls pick to Min for Love
Cut Hamilton
Keep Hinrich


Check the stats, Cousins is having a better season than Noah and many consider this to be Noah's best season. People consider this to be a bad season for Cousins because of what's going on in Sacramento.

Season Age MP FG% 3P% FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PTS
2010-11 20 28.5 .430 .167 .687 8.6 2.5 1.0 0.8 3.3 14.1
2011-12 21 30.5 .448 .143 .702 11.0 1.6 1.5 1.2 2.7 18.1
2012-13 22 31.5 .454 .250 .747 10.0 2.9 1.6 0.6 3.1 17.4
Career 29.9 .443 .182 .709 9.8 2.3 1.3 0.9 3.0 16.3

Season Age MP FG% 3P% FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PTS
2007-08 22 20.7 .482 .000 .691 5.6 1.1 0.9 0.9 1.2 6.6
2008-09 23 24.2 .556 .000 .676 7.6 1.3 0.6 1.4 1.0 6.7
2009-10 24 30.1 .504 .744 11.0 2.1 0.5 1.6 1.8 10.7
2010-11 25 32.8 .525 .000 .739 10.4 2.2 1.0 1.5 1.9 11.7
2011-12 26 30.4 .508 .000 .748 9.8 2.5 0.6 1.4 1.4 10.2
2012-13 27 38.3 .460 .000 .757 11.3 4.3 1.3 2.1 2.8 11.8
Career 28.5 .504 .000 .727 9.0 2.1 0.8 1.4 1.6 9.3

Cousins will probably make as much as Noah on his next deal, but overall has better numbers. Get him with a great coach and increase that FG% a little, and it's no contest.
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#98 » by OldSchoolNoBull » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:11 pm

PistolP wrote:Doing a S&T this summer will be very hard this summer since we can't go over the apron.


Whoa whoa whoa, I thought the hard cap that resulted from using the BAE on Marco ceases being an issue on July 1 when the new season, as far as contracts go, starts. Why would we still be beholden to the hard cap at that point?
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#99 » by BullsGate » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:13 pm

Paul George becomes a restricted free agent in 2014, right? I would love to see Bulls a bold move and steal George away from pacers.
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Re: A realistic look at 2014 FA and options 

Post#100 » by coldfish » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:14 pm

Cousins has good numbers (and his team is bad) because he shoots a lot. As you note, he doesn't shoot well. Actually, he is pretty awful for a big man. That doesn't dissuade him from chucking up 14.4 per game.

Maybe he turns it around under Thibodeau but that's a gamble. Right now, Noah is significantly better than Cousins at playing basketball in a manner that wins games. Honestly, I would want to put Noah next to Cousins, not replace Noah.

Cousins has a -1.1 +/- right now. That's incredible. He makes one of the worst teams in the NBA actually worse when he enters the game.

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