Andrew Goudelock

[kdapiton]

If we don't resign Nate, I'll live with him being on the roster.

[kdapiton]

You take the good with the bad. He can put the ball in the hoop. Cheap free agency or SL rosters aren't exactly littered with Kawhai Leonards and Jimmy Butlers. He'd be a nice spark. Gary Neal-esque/ Nate lite.

[League Circles]

Consider him, yes, but it will be a huge letdown.

I'm not sure people realize how rare it is to pull a guy off the dump heap that no one wants (indeed Nate last year) and have them do what Nate did to Brooklyn, and even as successful as he was vs Miami in several games.

Like anyone can just come in and throw up 17.4 PER (2nd on our team) and .540 TS% (2nd on our team) while thrust into a big minute role.

I think everybody realizes how rare it is. Thing is, they also realize how rare it is to get a guy who did that to sign for the vet minimum as a healthy, under 30 guy who has never made huge money, on a team where he can't be sure what kind of PT he'd get. Even if he gets all the backup minutes at the 1 spot, that would likely only be about 12 mpg.

People just doubt we'll get him back, because ultimately, if he waits, he'll probably get more. He has nothing to gain right now by signing with us, and frankly we don't have a lot to gain by rushing to sign someone else either. People were thinking maybe Brand for the minimum and he just got 4 mil by waiting. Players are going to get decent one year deals if they wait. Nate might yet get 3 mil from someone to be a guard for a contender on the MMLE, or a BAE deal, or even a vet minimum deal where he project to get more PT because there isn't a Derrick Rose on the roster and a coach who has never regular played a SG who is less than 8 inches taller than Nate.

95%+ of posters want Nate back. We just think it's more likely that he's gone. Which sucks. But it doesn't change the fact that we kinda need a scorer who can handle the ball off the bench and guard SGs in theory (be tall enough). Goudelock is basically competing against guys like TMac, Udrih, Alan Anderson, Daequan Cook, etc IMO. I'm guessing that the Bulls are done looking at the smaller, more PG types like Bynum and Mo Williams as rumored earlier now that they've got a better look at Teague and how he projects, whether we bring back Nate or not, I think any non-Nate perimeter signing will be player at least as big as Glock.

[Ralphb07]

What gets me is that you have so many guys that want Nate back, but won't consider Goudelock who can score in bunches as a end of the bench player.

Consider him, yes, but it will be a huge letdown.

I'm not sure people realize how rare it is to pull a guy off the dump heap that no one wants (indeed Nate last year) and have them do what Nate did to Brooklyn, and even as successful as he was vs Miami in several games.

Like anyone can just come in and throw up 17.4 PER (2nd on our team) and .540 TS% (2nd on our team) while thrust into a big minute role.

I am not looking for him to come in and kick ass this year, for me it is long term. Sometimes fans need to change the fan switch to GM switch and say hey this guy has a skill we've been needed and could turn into a useful player for our team.

Another guy I like is Charles Jenkins, he posses some of the stuff we want. We are talking about 13th-14th players on our roster. Those players are usually Scal and Vlad rad or guys like Goudelock or Jenkins. I'd rather can a guy who can still develop. I

[Tenchi Ryu]

Guess I'm one of the few who wasn't as impressed. Him having to take away shots from other players just to get his didn't exactly woo me. Let me see him able to effectively get the ball around then maybe my interest will rise, cause for now, all I see is a shot chucker. I swear, looked like dude forgot he had teammates at times.

[League Circles]

I am not looking for him to come in and kick ass this year, for me it is long term. Sometimes fans need to change the fan switch to GM switch and say hey this guy has a skill we've been needed and could turn into a useful player for our team.

Exactly. Just because we're trying to win a title this year doesn't mean we should completely ignore the future. There is a chance that Goudelock could be a good long term player with this club. It's probably worth keeping him to get a better look at and to coach him to play better D, etc. With the 11th-15th men on a roster, as long as your top 10 guys aren't too one dimensional (like on our 2010-11 team), it's really wise to get a couple prospects in there, especially if cheap, and see what you can turn them into. I like that mindset. In a way, that's what we did with Marco, and Teague, and Malcolm Thomas. See if they can turn into something. Better than signing a 30-something scrub that is neither good in the short term nor has potential for the long term.

[JackFinn]

Glock doesn't have the physical tools of Nate, I don't think he can consistently create space in the half court. Nor is a finisher at the rim, nor draw fouls.

Nor is he 'taker' at the rim. Out of 176 shots, he took 5 at the rim. That's right, five. And yeah, he attempted only 12 free throws.

But it's looking more and more likely that Nate won't be back. So Goudelock could be a solid addition for a guy at the end of the bench. I mean what are the alternatives?

Oh, I wouldn't have a problem with that. I just don't agree that he's a good shooter or that he has good range. His range is as limited as they come. Nearly all his shots came from 16 feet out. His percentage from 16 to 23 feet is an evil 26%. He's good at threes but, to not be predictable, he had to mix it up with other shots which brought his efficiency down to 49 ts% which is not appropriate when children are present. And he'll be 25 years old this year. Obviously I don't expect anything out of a vet minimum and I'd cheer him on.

[Ralphb07]

Guess I'm one of the few who wasn't as impressed. Him having to take away shots from other players just to get his didn't exactly woo me. Let me see him able to effectively get the ball around then maybe my interest will rise, cause for now, all I see is a shot chucker. I swear, looked like dude forgot he had teammates at times.

That how scorers play though, and after a while he did pass. Players have a style and you can't change that. He is a scorer, that is what he'll be in the NBA. He is a guy you put in when things aren't going right and need points.

[League Circles]

Oh, I wouldn't have a problem with that. I just don't agree that he's a good shooter or that he has good range. His range is as limited as they come. Nearly all his shots came from 16 feet out. His percentage from 16 to 23 feet is an evil 26%. He's good at threes but, to not be predictable, he had to mix it up with shots he's bad at, which brought his efficiency down to an offensive 49 ts%. And he'll be 25 years old this year. Obviously I don't expect anything out of a vet minimum and I'd cheer him on.

Dude... he played only 419 minutes as a 22-23 year old! I don't think much can be drawn from that as far as his stats and ability. He's only played 10 or more minutes in the NBA 18 times. He shot 48/36/84 as the D league MVP last year while averaging 21, 5 and 4. I'm going on just the game a couple days ago but he has really smooth offensive skills, and most importantly for our last perimeter signing, he has a scorer's mentality. I don't expect him to be Nate, but I genuinely think he looks a lot more talented than JL3 and Pargo have been in that role in recent years.

I know you're not coming down on him but I just wanted to say I think his first year stats in LA have little meaning, just like Butler and Teague's first year, limited stats had little meaning.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

A couple of Jenkins videos.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HKQsT0SZzAk&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DHKQsT0SZzAk

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1UGLcB_N1n0&feature=fvwrel

[Ralphb07]

A couple of Jenkins videos.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HKQsT0SZzAk&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DHKQsT0SZzAk

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1UGLcB_N1n0&feature=fvwrel

I've actually heard his name the past few days. Heard Jenkins and Agustin

[JackFinn]

Dude... he played only 419 minutes as a 22-23 year old!

Dude ... and yet:

I'm going on just the game a couple days ago but

So your NBA sample size is much smaller than mine. I didn't just post simple stats. I've clearly shown that he has zero tendency to take the ball to the hole. He also barely passes, whether going by my 419 minutes or your twenty something minutes.

I genuinely think he looks a lot more talented than JL3 and Pargo have been in that role in recent years.

That's fine. I'm only disagreeing with people trying to make him out to be a great overall shooter. You may dislike the evidence I present, but saying he's a great overall shooter is based on almost no evidence. I don't know that he'll be so much better than Pargo. He'll be 35 in 10 years, so he better hurry up.

[tre11408]

Watch this guy chuck it up tonight and everyone will be right back off his bandwagon.

I'm assuming you mean "watch this guy miss shots tonight", because he can't be much more of a chucker than he was in the first game. Everyone looks good when they're making shots.

I'm actually more impressed that he stepped out of the D-League right into starting two playoff games, and he scored 34 points in those 2 games. Of course, the fact that they got blown out in both games diminishes the value of those points quite a bit, we all know lots of guys can score points for a crappy team and/or in garbage time.

[JohnnyTapwater]

Yeah...both the Johnny's are on that Jenkins train...I loved his efficiency coming out ..he's built like a truck ..he'll get to the line and convert ...he can handle the rock ...he plays the right way ...just needs a chance ..

[JohnnyKILLroy]

A couple of Jenkins videos.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HKQsT0SZzAk&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DHKQsT0SZzAk

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1UGLcB_N1n0&feature=fvwrel

I've actually heard his name the past few days. Heard Jenkins and Agustin

To me it's a no brainer. He is more well rounded than Goudelock. He's built like a tank. He was a better scorer in college. He has shown more in the NBA. He is a good athlete.

He 6-3 215lbs with a 6-8 wingspan and solid athleticism AND he can score AND he can shoot the 3.

Agustin - No me gusta.

[League Circles]

Dude... he played only 419 minutes as a 22-23 year old!

Dude ... and yet:

I'm going on just the game a couple days ago but

So your sample size is much smaller than mine. I didn't just post simple stats. I've clearly shown that he has zero tendency to take the ball to the hole. He also barely passes, whether going by my 419 minutes or your twenty something minutes.

I genuinely think he looks a lot more talented than JL3 and Pargo have been in that role in recent years.

That's fine. I'm only disagreeing with people trying to make him out to be something more than that.

It was a wonderful 20 minutes though!

Seriously, though, I'm not going by his stats yesterday, I'm going off of how he looked - his skill set, his style, etc. He could be a 3pt chucker like Daequan, but after watching him I know that he at least has the ability to shoot from all over - he can shoot off the dribble in a variety of ways. Now, apparently he didn't do that with the Lakers, but I think he has the potential and ability to. We need somebody like him. If he's the best of that type, so be it, bring it on. For some reason I feel like he'd give us good luck.

[tre11408]

I know what Nate do can and convinced he can play with Rose, with Kirk, and also deserve minutes over Kirk.

Goudelock... he'll be a Pargo type. Total emergency guy. I could be wrong, but I don't think the odds are high.

Glock doesn't have the physical tools of Nate, I don't think he can consistently create space in the half court. Nor is a finisher at the rim, nor draw fouls.

You're saying that based on one Summer League game? I actually liked his step-back game, just judging from that one game I saw him play.

What physical tools do you think he's lacking in, compared to Nate? I think he's surely not as quick as Nate, just wondering what you saw?

Half the plays in these summer league games are transition garbage defense which are absolutely worthless representations of real NBA games. Usually why you see its And one, or 1v1 skill type players that blow up with big scores in SL.

I guess we will need *someone* in this mold if Nate falls through, just not very excited about this choice.

You're right, but from just one game he seemed able to score in the half-court. I'm not sure if he got more than one or two buckets in transition. And he also ran one nice fast-break where he fed Teague for the layup.

That being said, Nate's an 8-year NBA veteran, I sure hope we can get him back. I'm just not holding my breath that nobody will offer him more than the minimum.

[tre11408]

What gets me is that you have so many guys that want Nate back, but won't consider Goudelock who can score in bunches as a end of the bench player.

Consider him, yes, but it will be a huge letdown.

I'm not sure people realize how rare it is to pull a guy off the dump heap that no one wants (indeed Nate last year) and have them do what Nate did to Brooklyn, and even as successful as he was vs Miami in several games.

Like anyone can just come in and throw up 17.4 PER (2nd on our team) and .540 TS% (2nd on our team) while thrust into a big minute role.

Several games vs Miami? No, it was one game. The other 4, he shot 28% (3/10, 5/13, 0/12, 6/15). 7/24 from behind the arc. 19 ast vs 15 to.

No doubt he was awesome for us in the regular season, the numbers back that up. But he shot a career high from behind the arc- can he do that again?

You're right that it's rare to get a player off the trash heap and have him play as well as he did for us last season. Can the same player find lightning in a bottle twice?

[tre11408]

95%+ of posters want Nate back. We just think it's more likely that he's gone.

Exactly.

But what are the odds of that happening?

I could be way off, but it seems like every time we try to discuss someone to fill Nate's shoes, it's interrupted by "what about Nate"?? "Let's resign Nate"?? "What's wrong with Nate"??

NOTHING. And the way I understand it, we have an offer on the table for Nate to come back at last year's minimum plus 20%. But Nate is holding out for more money- and who can blame him for that?

[Rerisen]

You're saying that based on one Summer League game? I actually liked his step-back game, just judging from that one game I saw him play.

Of course not. Based on what he did for the Lakers,who actually needed a player just like this! And he couldn't get it done.

What physical tools do you think he's lacking in, compared to Nate? I think he's surely not as quick as Nate, just wondering what you saw?

Yes just saw fairly pedestrian speed and quickness, hops goes without saying can't compete with Nate. Its well known he doesn't have great athleticism at the NBA level, check his scouting report.

Several games vs Miami? No, it was one game.

He played well against them in 2 regular season games as well. Over 50% shooting and positive plus/minus in the 2 wins.

Geez, here we go again. Someone is leaving the Bulls (likely) let's start downing them! And prop up endless hope on a guy who had one miserable season in the league.