Image ImageImage Image

Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room MLE

Moderators: Ben, Senor Chang, HomoSapien, Morten Jensen, fleet, DASMACKDOWN, Ice Man, alucryts, Tommy Udo 6 , Mark K, GimmeDat, Rerisen

User avatar
Gar Paxdorf
RealGM
Posts: 17,082
And1: 2,416
Joined: Dec 04, 2001
       

Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room MLE 

Post#1 » by Gar Paxdorf » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:00 pm

Well now that things are starting to settle, it looks like this will likely be the offseason choice:

Keep Boozer, use the full MLE on Mirotic, and use the BAE (about $2 million) to get another cheap bench player (or starter at SG! :( )

OR

Amnesty Boozer, leaving about 12.4 million in cap space to sign Mirotic and one more free agent, plus the room MLE of 2.7 million

To me, it's not an easy choice. The guys in that 5-7 mil range we could sign with cap space after Mirotic signs mostly suck balls, especially at SG (imagine paying Jordan crawford 7 mil a year!). BUT, Boozer kinda also sucks and projects to be the third best PF next year. IF Thibbs will play Boozer off the bench as the backup C, and/or Thibbs will let Taj guard the SF some (when he's in with 2 out of Boozer, Noah, and Mirotic), I think keeping Boozer might be best.

The BAE vs room MLE are pretty close in dollar amount, but I wanted to be thorough on what I preceive as the total differences in the two scenarios. It mostly comes down to Boozer vs. a free agent costing 5-7 million.
It's believed in league circles that............
User avatar
Mech Engineer
RealGM
Posts: 10,471
And1: 1,814
Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Location: NW Suburbs

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#2 » by Mech Engineer » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:12 pm

Gar Paxdorf wrote:Well now that things are starting to settle, it looks like this will likely be the offseason choice:

Keep Boozer, use the full MLE on Mirotic, and use the BAE (about $2 million) to get another cheap bench player (or starter at SG! :( )

OR

Amnesty Boozer, leaving about 12.4 million in cap space to sign Mirotic and one more free agent, plus the room MLE of 2.7 million

To me, it's not an easy choice. The guys in that 5-7 mil range we could sign with cap space after Mirotic signs mostly suck balls, especially at SG (imagine paying Jordan crawford 7 mil a year!). BUT, Boozer kinda also sucks and projects to be the third best PF next year. IF Thibbs will play Boozer off the bench as the backup C, and/or Thibbs will let Taj guard the SF some (when he's in with 2 out of Boozer, Noah, and Mirotic), I think keeping Boozer might be best.

The BAE vs room MLE are pretty close in dollar amount, but I wanted to be thorough on what I preceive as the total differences in the two scenarios. It mostly comes down to Boozer vs. a free agent costing 5-7 million.


The only hope is some superstar wants to be traded and this summer is the best time for it based on where the draft lottery happens. If anything, the Bulls have the reputation of making good picks. If that is the case in the league, then their picks might have great value(a Bulls 12th pick might be more valued than a Cavs 9th pick). Add Boozer's expiring contract for financial purposes and get the star(Melo or Love or somebody like that) to Chicago.

If there is anytime to trade Boozer, it has to be this summer and lot of stars have to align for that to happen.
DanTown8587
RealGM
Posts: 29,827
And1: 3,732
Joined: Jan 06, 2008
Location: Chicago
     

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#3 » by DanTown8587 » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:14 pm

What if you need more than the MLE to sign Nikola? I think it's entirely possible that's the move here. Something like Nikola and then a guard/forward that is around the tax payer level (3-4 million). I don't think the Bulls will have both.
Nate3carp
Sophomore
Posts: 194
And1: 11
Joined: May 28, 2012

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#4 » by Nate3carp » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:16 pm

There is also the chance of trading Teague and Dunleavy for nothing or future draft picks that could increase that $6-7 million FA to an $11-$12 FA... I"d have to run the numbers, but if you're math on the 6-7 is right, Dunleavy and Teague are about $4.5 that we could potentially add on to that (of course, you'd have to subtract 2 roster hold amounts from that 4.5).
MarkDeeks
Junior
Posts: 338
And1: 250
Joined: Sep 21, 2013

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#5 » by MarkDeeks » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:20 pm

You can scratch Dunleavy. He gone. Renouce Kirk, Cook, Vlad, Nazr, Scal, obvs.

Rose - $18,862,876
Noah - $12,200,000
Gibson - $8,000,000
Butler - $2,008,748
Snell - $1,472,400
2014 first - $1.4 million ish
Teague - $1,120,920
Mirotic's cap charge until he's signed - $1,075,300
Murphy - $816,482
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Rip* - $333,334

Total - $48,812,068

Latest cap estimate - $62.1 million

Space under it - $13,287,793

Get excited, ladies.
User avatar
TyrusRose2425
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,128
And1: 1,763
Joined: May 23, 2008
     

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#6 » by TyrusRose2425 » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:23 pm

MarkDeeks wrote:You can scratch Dunleavy. He gone. Renouce Kirk, Cook, Vlad, Nazr, Scal, obvs.

Rose - $18,862,876
Noah - $12,200,000
Gibson - $8,000,000
Butler - $2,008,748
Snell - $1,472,400
2014 first - $1.4 million ish
Teague - $1,120,920
Mirotic's cap charge until he's signed - $1,075,300
Murphy - $816,482
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Rip* - $333,334

Total - $48,812,068

Latest cap estimate - $62.1 million

Space under it - $13,287,793

Get excited, ladies.

If we give Mirotic the MLE, wouldn't it come straight out of our cap space? Or can we offer the MLE and still use the $13 million to sign someone else.
Thomas Müller- "We're not careless or arrogant. We're dominant"
User avatar
Hokie
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,734
And1: 1,729
Joined: Dec 30, 2011
     

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#7 » by Hokie » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:23 pm

Pretty each choice to me. Amnesty Boozer.
KornelDavid'sJ wrote:What I like best about Boozer is that someday he'll retire.
MarkDeeks
Junior
Posts: 338
And1: 250
Joined: Sep 21, 2013

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#8 » by MarkDeeks » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:23 pm

You wouldn't have an MLE if you had cap space.
aaqubed
RealGM
Posts: 10,148
And1: 684
Joined: Jun 02, 2002

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#9 » by aaqubed » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:26 pm

Mech Engineer wrote:
Gar Paxdorf wrote:Well now that things are starting to settle, it looks like this will likely be the offseason choice:

Keep Boozer, use the full MLE on Mirotic, and use the BAE (about $2 million) to get another cheap bench player (or starter at SG! :( )

OR

Amnesty Boozer, leaving about 12.4 million in cap space to sign Mirotic and one more free agent, plus the room MLE of 2.7 million

To me, it's not an easy choice. The guys in that 5-7 mil range we could sign with cap space after Mirotic signs mostly suck balls, especially at SG (imagine paying Jordan crawford 7 mil a year!). BUT, Boozer kinda also sucks and projects to be the third best PF next year. IF Thibbs will play Boozer off the bench as the backup C, and/or Thibbs will let Taj guard the SF some (when he's in with 2 out of Boozer, Noah, and Mirotic), I think keeping Boozer might be best.

The BAE vs room MLE are pretty close in dollar amount, but I wanted to be thorough on what I preceive as the total differences in the two scenarios. It mostly comes down to Boozer vs. a free agent costing 5-7 million.


The only hope is some superstar wants to be traded and this summer is the best time for it based on where the draft lottery happens. If anything, the Bulls have the reputation of making good picks. If that is the case in the league, then their picks might have great value(a Bulls 12th pick might be more valued than a Cavs 9th pick). Add Boozer's expiring contract for financial purposes and get the star(Melo or Love or somebody like that) to Chicago.

If there is anytime to trade Boozer, it has to be this summer and lot of stars have to align for that to happen.


Yup. I think the decision is pretty much made. Either we trade Boozer (at the draft or we find a deal for him during the moratorium), or, if we can't find a good deal (packaging him, Snell or Butler, and lots of picks for a star), we amnesty him. Then sign Mirotic (either with the MLE or the equivalent in cap space), and have around $8M left + the room exception. Not sure if there are any decent options in that price range but that's what it'll be.
User avatar
dougthonus
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 40,875
And1: 1,495
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#10 » by dougthonus » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:28 pm

Gar Paxdorf wrote:Well now that things are starting to settle, it looks like this will likely be the offseason choice:

Keep Boozer, use the full MLE on Mirotic, and use the BAE (about $2 million) to get another cheap bench player (or starter at SG! :( )

OR

Amnesty Boozer, leaving about 12.4 million in cap space to sign Mirotic and one more free agent, plus the room MLE of 2.7 million

To me, it's not an easy choice. The guys in that 5-7 mil range we could sign with cap space after Mirotic signs mostly suck balls, especially at SG (imagine paying Jordan crawford 7 mil a year!). BUT, Boozer kinda also sucks and projects to be the third best PF next year. IF Thibbs will play Boozer off the bench as the backup C, and/or Thibbs will let Taj guard the SF some (when he's in with 2 out of Boozer, Noah, and Mirotic), I think keeping Boozer might be best.

The BAE vs room MLE are pretty close in dollar amount, but I wanted to be thorough on what I preceive as the total differences in the two scenarios. It mostly comes down to Boozer vs. a free agent costing 5-7 million.


You keep Boozer, it strengthens your negotiating stance with Mirotic because you can't offer more than the MLE now.

Also, you can then swap Boozer for another large salaried player if some other team is looking to move someone which gives you some extra trade flexibility. I'd imagine the extra flexibility is worth more than whatever crap player you're going to sign.

That said, I would have loved to get Kevin Martin last year at his 7 million per year deal, I don't see a similar option this season. You can always look to negotiate a deal with an FA within the amnesty period and then amnesty boozer only if you come to terms with someone you like.
Image
mysticbb
Banned User
Posts: 8,205
And1: 698
Joined: May 28, 2007
Contact:
   

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#11 » by mysticbb » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:29 pm

MarkDeeks wrote:You can scratch Dunleavy. He gone. Renouce Kirk, Cook, Vlad, Nazr, Scal, obvs.

Rose - $18,862,876
Noah - $12,200,000
Gibson - $8,000,000
Butler - $2,008,748
Snell - $1,472,400
2014 first - $1.4 million ish
Teague - $1,120,920
Mirotic's cap charge until he's signed - $1,075,300
Murphy - $816,482
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Rip* - $333,334

Total - $48,812,068

Latest cap estimate - $62.1 million

Space under it - $13,287,793

Get excited, ladies.


What is Mirotic going to get in that scenario? Meaning, if the Bulls use the $13.3m capspace on a single player?
User avatar
Evil_Headband
Rookie
Posts: 1,077
And1: 144
Joined: Feb 25, 2008
   

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#12 » by Evil_Headband » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:30 pm

TyrusRose2425 wrote:
MarkDeeks wrote:You can scratch Dunleavy. He gone. Renouce Kirk, Cook, Vlad, Nazr, Scal, obvs.

Rose - $18,862,876
Noah - $12,200,000
Gibson - $8,000,000
Butler - $2,008,748
Snell - $1,472,400
2014 first - $1.4 million ish
Teague - $1,120,920
Mirotic's cap charge until he's signed - $1,075,300
Murphy - $816,482
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Rip* - $333,334

Total - $48,812,068

Latest cap estimate - $62.1 million

Space under it - $13,287,793

Get excited, ladies.

If we give Mirotic the MLE, wouldn't it come straight out of our cap space? Or can we offer the MLE and still use the $13 million to sign someone else.


If you have cap space you don't get an MLE.
User avatar
Dominater
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,878
And1: 740
Joined: Jan 16, 2005
Location: Cuba

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#13 » by Dominater » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:30 pm

At this point hold on to him. Hope that huge expiring comes in handy as filler
basghetti80
Pro Prospect
Posts: 914
And1: 49
Joined: Jun 05, 2001

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#14 » by basghetti80 » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:30 pm

Doug I had not considered that possibility but do you think keeping Boozer, then signing Mirotic to MLE and after that signing then flipping Boozer for a large salaried expiring player(probably a perimeter guy) a real possibility?
MarkDeeks
Junior
Posts: 338
And1: 250
Joined: Sep 21, 2013

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#15 » by MarkDeeks » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:31 pm

mysticbb wrote:
MarkDeeks wrote:You can scratch Dunleavy. He gone. Renouce Kirk, Cook, Vlad, Nazr, Scal, obvs.

Rose - $18,862,876
Noah - $12,200,000
Gibson - $8,000,000
Butler - $2,008,748
Snell - $1,472,400
2014 first - $1.4 million ish
Teague - $1,120,920
Mirotic's cap charge until he's signed - $1,075,300
Murphy - $816,482
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Rip* - $333,334

Total - $48,812,068

Latest cap estimate - $62.1 million

Space under it - $13,287,793

Get excited, ladies.


What is Mirotic going to get in that scenario? Meaning, if the Bulls use the $13.3m capspace on a single player?


If the Bulls spend $13.3 million on a single player, what is Mirotic going to get?

Told to wait. :D
User avatar
Gar Paxdorf
RealGM
Posts: 17,082
And1: 2,416
Joined: Dec 04, 2001
       

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#16 » by Gar Paxdorf » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:32 pm

MarkDeeks wrote:You can scratch Dunleavy. He gone. Renouce Kirk, Cook, Vlad, Nazr, Scal, obvs.

Rose - $18,862,876
Noah - $12,200,000
Gibson - $8,000,000
Butler - $2,008,748
Snell - $1,472,400
2014 first - $1.4 million ish
Teague - $1,120,920
Mirotic's cap charge until he's signed - $1,075,300
Murphy - $816,482
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Rip* - $333,334

Total - $48,812,068

Latest cap estimate - $62.1 million

Space under it - $13,287,793

Get excited, ladies.


I would keep Dunleavy probably. Tough to say, though. I'd have given him away and re-signed Deng, but whatever.

Couple questions, though, about your breakdown, which is appreciated.

I've always assumed since you can use the room MLE to sign a player, that that ability means one less roster hold (507k), basically that the room MLE is assumed to be the 13th man. Is that not the case? If not, that's a stupid oversight by the NBA contract writers IMO.

Also, not so much a question as a comment - I'd be shocked if Murphy is back. That extra 309k or so of cap space is worth more than his shootaround brilliance.

I'm also assuming we'll have Charlotte's pick based on where they are now, and I also think we'll get rid of Teague even if it means giving away a 2nd rounder to get someone else to pay him next year. Between Teague and Murphy that's an extra million or so in cap space.
It's believed in league circles that............
mysticbb
Banned User
Posts: 8,205
And1: 698
Joined: May 28, 2007
Contact:
   

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#17 » by mysticbb » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:33 pm

MarkDeeks wrote:Told to wait. :D


So, if the Bulls want to bring him over, they use part of the capspace to sign Mirotic. Damn, and I thought I missed something here ... (like Mirotic is so eager to come over that he signs for the room ...)
MarkDeeks
Junior
Posts: 338
And1: 250
Joined: Sep 21, 2013

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#18 » by MarkDeeks » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:36 pm

I've always assumed since you can use the room MLE to sign a player, that that ability means one less roster hold (507k), basically that the room MLE is assumed to be the 13th man. Is that not the case? If not, that's a stupid oversight by the NBA contract writers IMO.


It is not the case, and it's not an oversight, because the roster charges go up to 12 (Rip is not on the roster and thus does not count). So it ties in with that 13th man logic.

That extra 309k or so of cap space is worth more than his shootaround brilliance.


It's possible. But you don't open up small amounts like that until you know you need to.

I also think we'll get rid of Teague even if it means giving away a 2nd rounder to get someone else to pay him next year.


If you trade Teague, add another roster charge, and the saving is only about $600,000. Is a second rounder worth giving away to open up $600,000 in cap space? Second rounders are valuable, after all. They can land you the Luol Deng's of the world.
MarkDeeks
Junior
Posts: 338
And1: 250
Joined: Sep 21, 2013

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#19 » by MarkDeeks » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:37 pm

mysticbb wrote:
MarkDeeks wrote:Told to wait. :D


So, if the Bulls want to bring him over, they use part of the capspace to sign Mirotic. Damn, and I thought I missed something here ... (like Mirotic is so eager to come over that he signs for the room ...)


If he prices himself out of the Bulls's price range, they can always say no thanks, we'll try again next year. I should think they get something done next summer, but if he gets all silly about it, they have the leverage to say no.
mostek
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,363
And1: 224
Joined: Jul 07, 2013

Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room ML 

Post#20 » by mostek » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:38 pm

MarkDeeks wrote:You can scratch Dunleavy. He gone. Renouce Kirk, Cook, Vlad, Nazr, Scal, obvs.

Rose - $18,862,876
Noah - $12,200,000
Gibson - $8,000,000
Butler - $2,008,748
Snell - $1,472,400
2014 first - $1.4 million ish
Teague - $1,120,920
Mirotic's cap charge until he's signed - $1,075,300
Murphy - $816,482
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Rip* - $333,334

Total - $48,812,068

Latest cap estimate - $62.1 million

Space under it - $13,287,793

Get excited, ladies.

You can not just scratch Dunleavy, if they move him, they will probably be bringing salary back, but I expect they keep him, now Deng is gone. The cap holds are $915K, unless you have your own 2nd round pick on the roster, and do not expect there will be 2nd round picks, in addition to 1, or 2, 1st round picks, plus Mirotic. Without Deng, the Bulls 1st round pick, should be much higher, probably closer to $3M, than $1.4M, and Charlotte may push past the Bulls, into the playoffs, maybe another $2M pick. Unless you are passing on $5.3M on Mirotic, that leaves about $3M - $4M, for a FA, not even MLE money.

Return to Chicago Bulls