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Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million FA + room MLE

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Post#1 Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 million F
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:00 pm by Gar Paxdorf

Well now that things are starting to settle, it looks like this will likely be the offseason choice:

Keep Boozer, use the full MLE on Mirotic, and use the BAE (about $2 million) to get another cheap bench player (or starter at SG! :( )

OR

Amnesty Boozer, leaving about 12.4 million in cap space to sign Mirotic and one more free agent, plus the room MLE of 2.7 million

To me, it's not an easy choice. The guys in that 5-7 mil range we could sign with cap space after Mirotic signs mostly suck balls, especially at SG (imagine paying Jordan crawford 7 mil a year!). BUT, Boozer kinda also sucks and projects to be the third best PF next year. IF Thibbs will play Boozer off the bench as the backup C, and/or Thibbs will let Taj guard the SF some (when he's in with 2 out of Boozer, Noah, and Mirotic), I think keeping Boozer might be best.

The BAE vs room MLE are pretty close in dollar amount, but I wanted to be thorough on what I preceive as the total differences in the two scenarios. It mostly comes down to Boozer vs. a free agent costing 5-7 million.
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Post#2 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:12 pm by Mech Engineer

Gar Paxdorf wrote:Well now that things are starting to settle, it looks like this will likely be the offseason choice:

Keep Boozer, use the full MLE on Mirotic, and use the BAE (about $2 million) to get another cheap bench player (or starter at SG! :( )

OR

Amnesty Boozer, leaving about 12.4 million in cap space to sign Mirotic and one more free agent, plus the room MLE of 2.7 million

To me, it's not an easy choice. The guys in that 5-7 mil range we could sign with cap space after Mirotic signs mostly suck balls, especially at SG (imagine paying Jordan crawford 7 mil a year!). BUT, Boozer kinda also sucks and projects to be the third best PF next year. IF Thibbs will play Boozer off the bench as the backup C, and/or Thibbs will let Taj guard the SF some (when he's in with 2 out of Boozer, Noah, and Mirotic), I think keeping Boozer might be best.

The BAE vs room MLE are pretty close in dollar amount, but I wanted to be thorough on what I preceive as the total differences in the two scenarios. It mostly comes down to Boozer vs. a free agent costing 5-7 million.


The only hope is some superstar wants to be traded and this summer is the best time for it based on where the draft lottery happens. If anything, the Bulls have the reputation of making good picks. If that is the case in the league, then their picks might have great value(a Bulls 12th pick might be more valued than a Cavs 9th pick). Add Boozer's expiring contract for financial purposes and get the star(Melo or Love or somebody like that) to Chicago.

If there is anytime to trade Boozer, it has to be this summer and lot of stars have to align for that to happen.
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Post#3 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:14 pm by DanTown8587

What if you need more than the MLE to sign Nikola? I think it's entirely possible that's the move here. Something like Nikola and then a guard/forward that is around the tax payer level (3-4 million). I don't think the Bulls will have both.
Cap Space and MLE is either/or, not both.
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Post#4 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:16 pm by Nate3carp

There is also the chance of trading Teague and Dunleavy for nothing or future draft picks that could increase that $6-7 million FA to an $11-$12 FA... I"d have to run the numbers, but if you're math on the 6-7 is right, Dunleavy and Teague are about $4.5 that we could potentially add on to that (of course, you'd have to subtract 2 roster hold amounts from that 4.5).
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Post#5 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:20 pm by MarkDeeks

You can scratch Dunleavy. He gone. Renouce Kirk, Cook, Vlad, Nazr, Scal, obvs.

Rose - $18,862,876
Noah - $12,200,000
Gibson - $8,000,000
Butler - $2,008,748
Snell - $1,472,400
2014 first - $1.4 million ish
Teague - $1,120,920
Mirotic's cap charge until he's signed - $1,075,300
Murphy - $816,482
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Rip* - $333,334

Total - $48,812,068

Latest cap estimate - $62.1 million

Space under it - $13,287,793

Get excited, ladies.
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Post#6 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:23 pm by TyrusRose2425

MarkDeeks wrote:You can scratch Dunleavy. He gone. Renouce Kirk, Cook, Vlad, Nazr, Scal, obvs.

Rose - $18,862,876
Noah - $12,200,000
Gibson - $8,000,000
Butler - $2,008,748
Snell - $1,472,400
2014 first - $1.4 million ish
Teague - $1,120,920
Mirotic's cap charge until he's signed - $1,075,300
Murphy - $816,482
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Rip* - $333,334

Total - $48,812,068

Latest cap estimate - $62.1 million

Space under it - $13,287,793

Get excited, ladies.

If we give Mirotic the MLE, wouldn't it come straight out of our cap space? Or can we offer the MLE and still use the $13 million to sign someone else.
Thomas MĂĽller- "We're not careless or arrogant. We're dominant"
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Post#7 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:23 pm by Hokie

Pretty each choice to me. Amnesty Boozer.
KornelDavid'sJ wrote:What I like best about Boozer is that someday he'll retire.
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Post#8 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:23 pm by MarkDeeks

You wouldn't have an MLE if you had cap space.
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Post#9 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:26 pm by aaqubed

Mech Engineer wrote:
Gar Paxdorf wrote:Well now that things are starting to settle, it looks like this will likely be the offseason choice:

Keep Boozer, use the full MLE on Mirotic, and use the BAE (about $2 million) to get another cheap bench player (or starter at SG! :( )

OR

Amnesty Boozer, leaving about 12.4 million in cap space to sign Mirotic and one more free agent, plus the room MLE of 2.7 million

To me, it's not an easy choice. The guys in that 5-7 mil range we could sign with cap space after Mirotic signs mostly suck balls, especially at SG (imagine paying Jordan crawford 7 mil a year!). BUT, Boozer kinda also sucks and projects to be the third best PF next year. IF Thibbs will play Boozer off the bench as the backup C, and/or Thibbs will let Taj guard the SF some (when he's in with 2 out of Boozer, Noah, and Mirotic), I think keeping Boozer might be best.

The BAE vs room MLE are pretty close in dollar amount, but I wanted to be thorough on what I preceive as the total differences in the two scenarios. It mostly comes down to Boozer vs. a free agent costing 5-7 million.


The only hope is some superstar wants to be traded and this summer is the best time for it based on where the draft lottery happens. If anything, the Bulls have the reputation of making good picks. If that is the case in the league, then their picks might have great value(a Bulls 12th pick might be more valued than a Cavs 9th pick). Add Boozer's expiring contract for financial purposes and get the star(Melo or Love or somebody like that) to Chicago.

If there is anytime to trade Boozer, it has to be this summer and lot of stars have to align for that to happen.


Yup. I think the decision is pretty much made. Either we trade Boozer (at the draft or we find a deal for him during the moratorium), or, if we can't find a good deal (packaging him, Snell or Butler, and lots of picks for a star), we amnesty him. Then sign Mirotic (either with the MLE or the equivalent in cap space), and have around $8M left + the room exception. Not sure if there are any decent options in that price range but that's what it'll be.
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Post#10 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:28 pm by dougthonus

Gar Paxdorf wrote:Well now that things are starting to settle, it looks like this will likely be the offseason choice:

Keep Boozer, use the full MLE on Mirotic, and use the BAE (about $2 million) to get another cheap bench player (or starter at SG! :( )

OR

Amnesty Boozer, leaving about 12.4 million in cap space to sign Mirotic and one more free agent, plus the room MLE of 2.7 million

To me, it's not an easy choice. The guys in that 5-7 mil range we could sign with cap space after Mirotic signs mostly suck balls, especially at SG (imagine paying Jordan crawford 7 mil a year!). BUT, Boozer kinda also sucks and projects to be the third best PF next year. IF Thibbs will play Boozer off the bench as the backup C, and/or Thibbs will let Taj guard the SF some (when he's in with 2 out of Boozer, Noah, and Mirotic), I think keeping Boozer might be best.

The BAE vs room MLE are pretty close in dollar amount, but I wanted to be thorough on what I preceive as the total differences in the two scenarios. It mostly comes down to Boozer vs. a free agent costing 5-7 million.


You keep Boozer, it strengthens your negotiating stance with Mirotic because you can't offer more than the MLE now.

Also, you can then swap Boozer for another large salaried player if some other team is looking to move someone which gives you some extra trade flexibility. I'd imagine the extra flexibility is worth more than whatever crap player you're going to sign.

That said, I would have loved to get Kevin Martin last year at his 7 million per year deal, I don't see a similar option this season. You can always look to negotiate a deal with an FA within the amnesty period and then amnesty boozer only if you come to terms with someone you like.
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Post#11 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:29 pm by mysticbb

MarkDeeks wrote:You can scratch Dunleavy. He gone. Renouce Kirk, Cook, Vlad, Nazr, Scal, obvs.

Rose - $18,862,876
Noah - $12,200,000
Gibson - $8,000,000
Butler - $2,008,748
Snell - $1,472,400
2014 first - $1.4 million ish
Teague - $1,120,920
Mirotic's cap charge until he's signed - $1,075,300
Murphy - $816,482
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Rip* - $333,334

Total - $48,812,068

Latest cap estimate - $62.1 million

Space under it - $13,287,793

Get excited, ladies.


What is Mirotic going to get in that scenario? Meaning, if the Bulls use the $13.3m capspace on a single player?
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Post#12 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:30 pm by Evil_Headband

TyrusRose2425 wrote:
MarkDeeks wrote:You can scratch Dunleavy. He gone. Renouce Kirk, Cook, Vlad, Nazr, Scal, obvs.

Rose - $18,862,876
Noah - $12,200,000
Gibson - $8,000,000
Butler - $2,008,748
Snell - $1,472,400
2014 first - $1.4 million ish
Teague - $1,120,920
Mirotic's cap charge until he's signed - $1,075,300
Murphy - $816,482
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Rip* - $333,334

Total - $48,812,068

Latest cap estimate - $62.1 million

Space under it - $13,287,793

Get excited, ladies.

If we give Mirotic the MLE, wouldn't it come straight out of our cap space? Or can we offer the MLE and still use the $13 million to sign someone else.


If you have cap space you don't get an MLE.
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Post#13 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:30 pm by Dominater

At this point hold on to him. Hope that huge expiring comes in handy as filler
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Post#14 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:30 pm by basghetti80

Doug I had not considered that possibility but do you think keeping Boozer, then signing Mirotic to MLE and after that signing then flipping Boozer for a large salaried expiring player(probably a perimeter guy) a real possibility?
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Post#15 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:31 pm by MarkDeeks

mysticbb wrote:
MarkDeeks wrote:You can scratch Dunleavy. He gone. Renouce Kirk, Cook, Vlad, Nazr, Scal, obvs.

Rose - $18,862,876
Noah - $12,200,000
Gibson - $8,000,000
Butler - $2,008,748
Snell - $1,472,400
2014 first - $1.4 million ish
Teague - $1,120,920
Mirotic's cap charge until he's signed - $1,075,300
Murphy - $816,482
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Rip* - $333,334

Total - $48,812,068

Latest cap estimate - $62.1 million

Space under it - $13,287,793

Get excited, ladies.


What is Mirotic going to get in that scenario? Meaning, if the Bulls use the $13.3m capspace on a single player?


If the Bulls spend $13.3 million on a single player, what is Mirotic going to get?

Told to wait. :D
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Post#16 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:32 pm by Gar Paxdorf

MarkDeeks wrote:You can scratch Dunleavy. He gone. Renouce Kirk, Cook, Vlad, Nazr, Scal, obvs.

Rose - $18,862,876
Noah - $12,200,000
Gibson - $8,000,000
Butler - $2,008,748
Snell - $1,472,400
2014 first - $1.4 million ish
Teague - $1,120,920
Mirotic's cap charge until he's signed - $1,075,300
Murphy - $816,482
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Rip* - $333,334

Total - $48,812,068

Latest cap estimate - $62.1 million

Space under it - $13,287,793

Get excited, ladies.


I would keep Dunleavy probably. Tough to say, though. I'd have given him away and re-signed Deng, but whatever.

Couple questions, though, about your breakdown, which is appreciated.

I've always assumed since you can use the room MLE to sign a player, that that ability means one less roster hold (507k), basically that the room MLE is assumed to be the 13th man. Is that not the case? If not, that's a stupid oversight by the NBA contract writers IMO.

Also, not so much a question as a comment - I'd be shocked if Murphy is back. That extra 309k or so of cap space is worth more than his shootaround brilliance.

I'm also assuming we'll have Charlotte's pick based on where they are now, and I also think we'll get rid of Teague even if it means giving away a 2nd rounder to get someone else to pay him next year. Between Teague and Murphy that's an extra million or so in cap space.
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Post#17 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:33 pm by mysticbb

MarkDeeks wrote:Told to wait. :D


So, if the Bulls want to bring him over, they use part of the capspace to sign Mirotic. Damn, and I thought I missed something here ... (like Mirotic is so eager to come over that he signs for the room ...)
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Post#18 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:36 pm by MarkDeeks

I've always assumed since you can use the room MLE to sign a player, that that ability means one less roster hold (507k), basically that the room MLE is assumed to be the 13th man. Is that not the case? If not, that's a stupid oversight by the NBA contract writers IMO.


It is not the case, and it's not an oversight, because the roster charges go up to 12 (Rip is not on the roster and thus does not count). So it ties in with that 13th man logic.

That extra 309k or so of cap space is worth more than his shootaround brilliance.


It's possible. But you don't open up small amounts like that until you know you need to.

I also think we'll get rid of Teague even if it means giving away a 2nd rounder to get someone else to pay him next year.


If you trade Teague, add another roster charge, and the saving is only about $600,000. Is a second rounder worth giving away to open up $600,000 in cap space? Second rounders are valuable, after all. They can land you the Luol Deng's of the world.
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Post#19 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:37 pm by MarkDeeks

mysticbb wrote:
MarkDeeks wrote:Told to wait. :D


So, if the Bulls want to bring him over, they use part of the capspace to sign Mirotic. Damn, and I thought I missed something here ... (like Mirotic is so eager to come over that he signs for the room ...)


If he prices himself out of the Bulls's price range, they can always say no thanks, we'll try again next year. I should think they get something done next summer, but if he gets all silly about it, they have the leverage to say no.
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Post#20 Re: Boozer plus a BAE player vs. a $6-7 milli
Tue Jan 7, 2014 2:38 pm by mostek

MarkDeeks wrote:You can scratch Dunleavy. He gone. Renouce Kirk, Cook, Vlad, Nazr, Scal, obvs.

Rose - $18,862,876
Noah - $12,200,000
Gibson - $8,000,000
Butler - $2,008,748
Snell - $1,472,400
2014 first - $1.4 million ish
Teague - $1,120,920
Mirotic's cap charge until he's signed - $1,075,300
Murphy - $816,482
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Roster charge - $507,336
Rip* - $333,334

Total - $48,812,068

Latest cap estimate - $62.1 million

Space under it - $13,287,793

Get excited, ladies.

You can not just scratch Dunleavy, if they move him, they will probably be bringing salary back, but I expect they keep him, now Deng is gone. The cap holds are $915K, unless you have your own 2nd round pick on the roster, and do not expect there will be 2nd round picks, in addition to 1, or 2, 1st round picks, plus Mirotic. Without Deng, the Bulls 1st round pick, should be much higher, probably closer to $3M, than $1.4M, and Charlotte may push past the Bulls, into the playoffs, maybe another $2M pick. Unless you are passing on $5.3M on Mirotic, that leaves about $3M - $4M, for a FA, not even MLE money.
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