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Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever?

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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#101 » by AirP. » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:24 pm

Gar Paxdorf wrote:
Proven_Winner wrote:Its as if your reading my brain. What you just said is what I've been saying.DJ is a system guy. When you take him out a system that uses his skills then he's not all that useful. The freaking Toronto fan said himself said DJ was not good there and that's because Toronto does not really need his skill of playmaking or scoring because they have multiple guys who can do it without dj's help.


DJ Augustin effectively never played for the Raptors. 10 games, including only 5 with more than one FGA and only three with more than 2. Played over 6:39 in only 4 games, two of which were wins over non playoff teams, and two of which were losses to playoff teams.

If Rose didn't play this year, as I've seen written a thousand times on here, DJ certainly didn't play for Toronto.


If he's "this good" why didn't he show it in practices to get the time on the court? It's the system and how your skills can be utilized in that system. Look at Deng this year and his rate of play since being traded, his scoring has dropped off by 3 PER36, rebounds are down more then 1 PER36 and his assists are down 1 PER36 even his FG% has dropped dramatically from 45% to 42%. It's all about the system and how a player's skillset fits into that system. The system has so much to say about how good you look on the court. The system has been changed in Chicago to better utilize Noah as a passer and his assists have gone up to show that. He's not all of a sudden become a better passer, he's just being utilized more towards that strength of his.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#102 » by Rerisen » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:27 pm

How much the system is making DJ or not, is only really going to be relevant if DJ cares about his role and about winning. As he may have done enough in Chicago to earn a fat deal elsewhere, and once he earns it, it really won't matter if he goes somewhere else and doesn't fit again, because he'll already have the contract.

Unless the possibility of riding pine again on a team that can't utilize him right greatly turns him off as a factor in his decision.

Even if he stays in Chicago though, in a system he knows fits him, it doesn't mean he will get enormous playing time here next year either, if Rose is healthy, and especially if Hinrich is brought back as well.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#103 » by Proven_Winner » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:31 pm

AirP. wrote:
Gar Paxdorf wrote:
Proven_Winner wrote:Its as if your reading my brain. What you just said is what I've been saying.DJ is a system guy. When you take him out a system that uses his skills then he's not all that useful. The freaking Toronto fan said himself said DJ was not good there and that's because Toronto does not really need his skill of playmaking or scoring because they have multiple guys who can do it without dj's help.


DJ Augustin effectively never played for the Raptors. 10 games, including only 5 with more than one FGA and only three with more than 2. Played over 6:39 in only 4 games, two of which were wins over non playoff teams, and two of which were losses to playoff teams.

If Rose didn't play this year, as I've seen written a thousand times on here, DJ certainly didn't play for Toronto.


If he's "this good" why didn't he show it in practices to get the time on the court? It's the system and how your skills can be utilized in that system. Look at Deng this year and his rate of play since being traded, his scoring has dropped off by 3 PER36, rebounds are down more then 1 PER36 and his assists are down 1 PER36 even his FG% has dropped dramatically from 45% to 42%. It's all about the system and how a player's skillset fits into that system. The system has so much to say about how good you look on the court. The system has been changed in Chicago to better utilize Noah as a passer and his assists have gone up to show that. He's not all of a sudden become a better passer, he's just being utilized more towards that strength of his.


Also to piggy back and support your Jo example even before this year Jo and derrick had a set give and go play which they used alot and it was effective. So like you said we just adjusted our system to run through his great passing skills. Everything he's doing now he did in the past but wasn't as noticeable because we had derrick who had to control the ball alot on offense.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#104 » by AirP. » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:31 pm

Bully6789 wrote:So knowing that this system brings out the best in his talents will he stay in Chicago or take the offer which gives him the most money? We all know the NBA is all about money and business, it is not about staying with the team that could make you a star by having a system that's brings out your best talent or will the money be the major factor as it is with 95% of the players.


DJ's made 15 million in the NBA(take away 40-50% of that for taxes and agent fees) so he's probably got a few million in the bank so he's not desperate for money but he only has a short amount of time to get paid in the NBA. I believe if Chicago offers ~3 mil a year for 3+ years(maybe 3 years 10 mil) he'd jump at the chance to sign(which I think is a fair offer) or he can chance a little more on a shorter contract or team option contract and lose out on a lot of money he could have made.

I just wonder how Jimmer would have handled DJ's role this year, both great outside shooters, DJ is a better ball handler and passer then Jimmer, maybe we'd be talking about Jimmer instead of DJ.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#105 » by Rerisen » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:35 pm

AirP. wrote:I just wonder how Jimmer would have handled DJ's role this year,


Not well imo.

Jimmer is a score first guard, with bad PG instincts.

DJ is a pass first guard, with great scoring instincts.

Big big difference. The lack of additional ball handling on the club I think would also hurt us a ton of possessions in a game where Jimmer is the primary ball handler. Too many plays would get bogged down and halted into confusion with him at PG.

DJ has kept so many plays alive this year and made something out of nothing numerous times a game, and not only for himself, but also for others.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#106 » by Proven_Winner » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:35 pm

Rerisen wrote:How much the system is making DJ or not, is only really going to be relevant if DJ cares about his role and about winning. As he may have done enough in Chicago to earn a fat deal elsewhere, and once he earns it, it really won't matter if he goes somewhere else and doesn't fit again, because he'll already have the contract.

Unless the possibility of riding pine again on a team that can't utilize him right greatly turns him off as a factor in his decision.

Even if he stays in Chicago though, in a system he knows fits him, it doesn't mean he will get enormous playing time here next year either, if Rose is healthy, and especially if Hinrich is brought back as well.


seeing as Thibs likes playing DJ and Kirk together don't think playing time will be much of a concern. Will he be getting as much time as he is now? No, but he will still get a reasonable amount especially since we know Kirk at some point will be hurt. I'm just not going to throw 7mil at him to stay.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#107 » by AirP. » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:40 pm

Rerisen wrote:
AirP. wrote:I just wonder how Jimmer would have handled DJ's role this year,


Not well imo.

Jimmer is a score first guard, with bad PG instincts.

DJ is a pass first guard, with great scoring instincts.

Big big difference. The lack of additional ball handling on the club I think would also hurt us a ton of possessions in a game where Jimmer is the primary ball handler. Too many plays would get bogged down and halted into confusion with him at PG.

DJ has kept so many plays alive this year and made something out of nothing numerous times a game, and not only for himself, but also for others.


But how much worse? He would have looked like a godsend for any positive contribution he gave. I don't think it would have been that much worse if he were given the time with nobody to look over his shoulder at.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#108 » by League Circles » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:43 pm

I think Fredette would have been way worse than DJ. Offensively they're not far apart, but Jimmer is perhaps the least quick PG defender I've ever seen.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#109 » by AirP. » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:46 pm

Proven_Winner wrote:Also to piggy back and support your Jo example even before this year Jo and derrick had a set give and go play which they used alot and it was effective. So like you said we just adjusted our system to run through his great passing skills. Everything he's doing now he did in the past but wasn't as noticeable because we had derrick who had to control the ball alot on offense.


It's really a brilliant move utilizing Noah like he is, he wasn't an offensive factor(other than put backs) in the low blocks so what's he good at... well, he's quick, has good ball handling skills, smart and a good passer, let's run the offense through him away from the basket, you get their center away from protecting the hoop.

I HOPE Chicago continues to utilize Noah this way even with Rose back, DJ's scoring shows that Rose can still put up points without having the whole offense run through him. You can still do pick and rolls, but why not keep using what's working. The only problem currently is that Rose isn't the outside shooter DJ is.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#110 » by AirP. » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:51 pm

Gar Paxdorf wrote:I think Fredette would have been way worse than DJ. Offensively they're not far apart, but Jimmer is perhaps the least quick PG defender I've ever seen.


Maybe so but after last night his PER36 numbers are...
20.6 pts, 1.9 asts, 4.5 reb on 45% FG% and 36% 3pt%... which his shooting % is down because of the lack of play. He may not be the distributor DJ is(and he defiantly isn't) but he may be a better scorer and rebounder.

It would have been interesting to give Kirk some rest and watch DJ and Jimmer play for a few weeks.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#111 » by Proven_Winner » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:54 pm

AirP. wrote:
Proven_Winner wrote:Also to piggy back and support your Jo example even before this year Jo and derrick had a set give and go play which they used alot and it was effective. So like you said we just adjusted our system to run through his great passing skills. Everything he's doing now he did in the past but wasn't as noticeable because we had derrick who had to control the ball alot on offense.


It's really a brilliant move utilizing Noah like he is, he wasn't an offensive factor(other than put backs) in the low blocks so what's he good at... well, he's quick, has good ball handling skills, smart and a good passer, let's run the offense through him away from the basket, you get their center away from protecting the hoop.

I HOPE Chicago continues to utilize Noah this way even with Rose back, DJ's scoring shows that Rose can still put up points without having the whole offense run through him. You can still do pick and rolls, but why not keep using what's working. The only problem currently is that Rose isn't the outside shooter DJ is.


well when rose played this season they were playing some offense through him. It was the same give and ho play with either rose taking the handoff or rejecting the screen and blowing by his defender while Jo threads the needle. But when rose comes back I would like he and Jo to run the offense equally that way you utilize both to their max potential on that end.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#112 » by League Circles » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:54 pm

AirP. wrote:
Gar Paxdorf wrote:I think Fredette would have been way worse than DJ. Offensively they're not far apart, but Jimmer is perhaps the least quick PG defender I've ever seen.


Maybe so but after last night his PER36 numbers are...
20.6 pts, 1.9 asts, 4.5 reb on 45% FG% and 36% 3pt%... which his shooting % is down because of the lack of play. He may not be the distributor DJ is(and he defiantly isn't) but he may be a better scorer and rebounder.

It would have been interesting to give Kirk some rest and watch DJ and Jimmer play for a few weeks.


I'm glad we have jimmer cause he can trade buckets but any good opponent will pick him out of the play for penetration at will IMO.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#113 » by Proven_Winner » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:58 pm

Gar Paxdorf wrote:
AirP. wrote:
Gar Paxdorf wrote:I think Fredette would have been way worse than DJ. Offensively they're not far apart, but Jimmer is perhaps the least quick PG defender I've ever seen.


Maybe so but after last night his PER36 numbers are...
20.6 pts, 1.9 asts, 4.5 reb on 45% FG% and 36% 3pt%... which his shooting % is down because of the lack of play. He may not be the distributor DJ is(and he defiantly isn't) but he may be a better scorer and rebounder.

It would have been interesting to give Kirk some rest and watch DJ and Jimmer play for a few weeks.


I'm glad we have jimmer cause he can trade buckets but any good opponent will pick him out of the play for penetration at will IMO.


I feel like jimmer plays d like Snell played at the beginning of the season. Too slow to get around screens and constantly being saved by the fact that we always ice the pick and roll.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#114 » by Rerisen » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:18 pm

AirP. wrote:
Gar Paxdorf wrote:I think Fredette would have been way worse than DJ. Offensively they're not far apart, but Jimmer is perhaps the least quick PG defender I've ever seen.


Maybe so but after last night his PER36 numbers are...
20.6 pts, 1.9 asts, 4.5 reb on 45% FG% and 36% 3pt%... which his shooting % is down because of the lack of play. He may not be the distributor DJ is(and he defiantly isn't) but he may be a better scorer and rebounder.

It would have been interesting to give Kirk some rest and watch DJ and Jimmer play for a few weeks.


DJ is averaging 17.6 Pts/36, on .576 TS%. Even as a scorer, Jimmer would have a hard time besting that.

But the biggest loss would definitely be the facilitation and to get something in the offense when we have to reset the ball back to DJ.

Jimmer is a much more mechanical guard where he is running a PnR primarily to score.

Jimmer is an even worse defender than DJ from what I've seen. Ronnie Price is nothing, but even a modest PG like Jameer might be able to light Jimmer up.

I think Jimmer has totally reinvent how he plays his game at the NBA level. He still plays with the aggression as if he's a star college scorer. And when that invariably doesn't work he kind of leaves teammates in a bad place with some of his passes. We don't really have the time to work this transition with him right now.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#115 » by AirP. » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:31 pm

Rerisen wrote:Jimmer is an even worse defender than DJ from what I've seen. Ronnie Price is nothing, but even a modest PG like Jameer might be able to light Jimmer up.

You do remember DJ being lit up right, it's one of the things I kept talking about the first 6 weeks or so playing with Chicago.
DJ Starting...
P.Beverly scores 15 and 3 assists.
Westbrook 20 and 10 assists.
Irving 14 and 5.
Irving 26 and 5.
Collison 17 and 4.
Parker 20 and 6.
Sessions 8 and 11.

As good as DJ has been offensively, he's given up just as much, his net PER right now at PG is 0. People seem to forget how bad he's been defensively, it's almost been a complete wash of points and assists between DJ and who he's defending. Not bad by any means but doesn't that make him basically a guy who helps you as much as he hurts you?
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#116 » by Rerisen » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:48 pm

AirP. wrote:
Rerisen wrote:Jimmer is an even worse defender than DJ from what I've seen. Ronnie Price is nothing, but even a modest PG like Jameer might be able to light Jimmer up.

You do remember DJ being lit up right, it's one of the things I kept talking about the first 6 weeks or so playing with Chicago.
DJ Starting...
P.Beverly scores 15 and 3 assists.
Westbrook 20 and 10 assists.
Irving 14 and 5.
Irving 26 and 5.
Collison 17 and 4.
Parker 20 and 6.
Sessions 8 and 11.

As good as DJ has been offensively, he's given up just as much, his net PER right now at PG is 0. People seem to forget how bad he's been defensively, it's almost been a complete wash of points and assists between DJ and who he's defending. Not bad by any means but doesn't that make him basically a guy who helps you as much as he hurts you?


DJ isn't a good defender either, but Jimmer is even slower.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#117 » by Air Poohdini » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:48 pm

He's going to be getting paid next year, and the Bulls won't be the ones who are doing the paying.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#118 » by drivewayball » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:19 pm

I'd say that a pick up who became a team's high scorer and most clutch player for almost an entire season is ground-breaking. DJ has been worth about 10 extra wins this year without a doubt. Others have contributed here and there, but he has been the difference between being a .500 team and where the Bulls are now.
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#119 » by Fred Williamson » Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:13 pm

too bad we never kept him. But apparently he hates us anyway, according to his brother-in-law
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Re: Is DJ Augustin the best in season waiver pickup ever? 

Post#120 » by The Kane » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:05 pm

mj234eva wrote:If the Bulls offered DJ 7 million a year, it would signal that they have no faith in Rose being healthy


They shouldn't. He's missed two seasons in a row, and the last season he played was an injury riddled one. His last full season was 2010-2011. It would be stupid not to have a more than competent backup to replace him. Not saying DJ is worth $7mil tho.
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