PG Thread: On to the playoffs

[Rerisen]

I think Thibs has found something about Boozer which doesn't penalize the team. Boozer probably needs to warm-up before he plays well and also the Bulls desperately need a second ball handler other than just the PG in the 4th quarter. The only one they have other than Kirk is DJ who is as deficient on defense as much as Boozer. He needs DJ's ball handling on the floor in the 4th quarter more than Boozer's whatever offense.

There is no way he can also play Boozer and DJ together on the same floor. I don't think this will change in the playoffs because the games will be close and there will be trapping/intense defense going on against the Bulls. You need a few ball handlers on the floor and that's all Thibs is doing.

What scares me about Boozer vs the Wiz, he will have nowhere to hide defensively.

Most teams we play have one good big man (some zero) and Noah has to guard them. Boozer gets the creampuff assignment, and the other team then has to work to get switches or run PnRs at him to expose us.

But vs Washington, he will have to 1v1 cover either Nene or Gortat and both are potential forces on offense. If Carlos lets either get off, we could be in big trouble for getting out of the 1st round.

[kyrv]

Wonder if Taj realizes he might be playing for his job this post-season.

He needs to pick it up big time. He had a 13 PER and .482 TS% in April.

Boozer had almost 17 PER and .526 TS%.

We know Taj plays much better defense but for the Boozer 24 minute rotation to make sense, it should be predicted on Taj playing at least as good offensively as Boozer, otherwise you begin to wonder.

This just seems like an agreement they reached is just so crazy that it seems not possible for a team trying to win.

[The Kane]

This is truly illustrative of the bias against Jimmer. Jimmer came in and played for any meaningful minutes for the first time in months and led DJ's box score in every category but turnovers (DJ's 2 vs 3 Jimmer's 3). Jimmer played for 30 minutes to DJ's 35 and Jimmer had more more rebounds, had +18 and a 50% shooting percentage to DJ's -16 and 37% shooting . In every other category, including points, Jimmer tied DJ.

Yet DJ is "freaking amazing" and Jimmer gets excuse after excuse as to why he's just mediocre or sucks. Unbelievable. "He's slow", "his ballhandling sucks", and on and on...yet somehow with all of Jimmer's supposed "suckiness", matches or EXCEED this "freaking amazing" guard everybody seems to slobber over on this forum.

Compare the stats. Jimmer hasn't played for more than 7 minutes outside of garbage time for months and months, and comes in and tops DJ in a single game. Anyone who can't see the bias here is plain dishonest.

But I'm sure I'll be told, "It's just one game!". Yeah, that's right, just one game. One game in months that Jimmer outplayed DJ who has played huge minutes every night. One game.

I'm a Jimmer fan but this post is terrible.

[GimmeDat]

This is truly illustrative of the bias against Jimmer. Jimmer came in and played for any meaningful minutes for the first time in months and led DJ's box score in every category but turnovers (DJ's 2 vs 3 Jimmer's 3). Jimmer played for 30 minutes to DJ's 35 and Jimmer had more more rebounds, had +18 and a 50% shooting percentage to DJ's -16 and 37% shooting . In every other category, including points, Jimmer tied DJ.

Yet DJ is "freaking amazing" and Jimmer gets excuse after excuse as to why he's just mediocre or sucks. Unbelievable. "He's slow", "his ballhandling sucks", and on and on...yet somehow with all of Jimmer's supposed "suckiness", matches or EXCEED this "freaking amazing" guard everybody seems to slobber over on this forum.

Compare the stats. Jimmer hasn't played for more than 7 minutes outside of garbage time for months and months, and comes in and tops DJ in a single game. Anyone who can't see the bias here is plain dishonest.

But I'm sure I'll be told, "It's just one game!". Yeah, that's right, just one game. One game in months that Jimmer outplayed DJ who has played huge minutes every night. One game.

I'm a Jimmer fan but this post is terrible.

This.

Jimmer is a scorer/shooter. No one's discrediting his ability to do that in the slightest, in fact, the majority of the board, myself included, have a bias towards Jimmer, pining for him to get more than just scrub minutes.

You do realize these guys are POINT GUARDS right? Jimmer is a guy with one niche skill. Without undermining his ability to put points on the board, the flaws in his game are evident - step slow on defense, struggles to get the ball up the court, not much of a facilitator, etc. DJ on the other hand is on a completely different level in terms of running the offense, setting up teammates, scoring at will and more. In that sense, DJ helps the team a hell of a lot more than Jimmer does.

That said, Jimmer is a good player, we all love him not just for his character but also because his scoring ability is very enticing, but as many have noted, he's probably limited to playing SG in a dual-PG lineup.

[Npliam]

This is truly illustrative of the bias against Jimmer. Jimmer came in and played for any meaningful minutes for the first time in months and led DJ's box score in every category but turnovers (DJ's 2 vs 3 Jimmer's 3). Jimmer played for 30 minutes to DJ's 35 and Jimmer had more more rebounds, had +18 and a 50% shooting percentage to DJ's -16 and 37% shooting . In every other category, including points, Jimmer tied DJ.

Yet DJ is "freaking amazing" and Jimmer gets excuse after excuse as to why he's just mediocre or sucks. Unbelievable. "He's slow", "his ballhandling sucks", and on and on...yet somehow with all of Jimmer's supposed "suckiness", matches or EXCEED this "freaking amazing" guard everybody seems to slobber over on this forum.

Compare the stats. Jimmer hasn't played for more than 7 minutes outside of garbage time for months and months, and comes in and tops DJ in a single game. Anyone who can't see the bias here is plain dishonest.

But I'm sure I'll be told, "It's just one game!". Yeah, that's right, just one game. One game in months that Jimmer outplayed DJ who has played huge minutes every night. One game.

I'm a Jimmer fan but this post is terrible.

Me too and I agree.

[Npliam]

This is truly illustrative of the bias against Jimmer. Jimmer came in and played for any meaningful minutes for the first time in months and led DJ's box score in every category but turnovers (DJ's 2 vs 3 Jimmer's 3). Jimmer played for 30 minutes to DJ's 35 and Jimmer had more more rebounds, had +18 and a 50% shooting percentage to DJ's -16 and 37% shooting . In every other category, including points, Jimmer tied DJ.

Yet DJ is "freaking amazing" and Jimmer gets excuse after excuse as to why he's just mediocre or sucks. Unbelievable. "He's slow", "his ballhandling sucks", and on and on...yet somehow with all of Jimmer's supposed "suckiness", matches or EXCEED this "freaking amazing" guard everybody seems to slobber over on this forum.

Compare the stats. Jimmer hasn't played for more than 7 minutes outside of garbage time for months and months, and comes in and tops DJ in a single game. Anyone who can't see the bias here is plain dishonest.

But I'm sure I'll be told, "It's just one game!". Yeah, that's right, just one game. One game in months that Jimmer outplayed DJ who has played huge minutes every night. One game.

I'm a Jimmer fan but this post is terrible.

This.

Jimmer is a scorer/shooter. No one's discrediting his ability to do that in the slightest, in fact, the majority of the board, myself included, have a bias towards Jimmer, pining for him to get more than just scrub minutes.

You do realize these guys are POINT GUARDS right? Jimmer is a guy with one niche skill. Without undermining his ability to put points on the board, the flaws in his game are evident - step slow on defense, struggles to get the ball up the court, not much of a facilitator, etc. DJ on the other hand is on a completely different level in terms of running the offense, setting up teammates, scoring at will and more. In that sense, DJ helps the team a hell of a lot more than Jimmer does.

That said, Jimmer is a good player, we all love him not just for his character but also because his scoring ability is very enticing, but as many have noted, he's probably limited to playing SG in a dual-PG lineup.

As someone who haw watched pretty much every single game Jimmer has played in I don't agree with this at all really.

[GimmeDat]

I'm a Jimmer fan but this post is terrible.

This.

Jimmer is a scorer/shooter. No one's discrediting his ability to do that in the slightest, in fact, the majority of the board, myself included, have a bias towards Jimmer, pining for him to get more than just scrub minutes.

You do realize these guys are POINT GUARDS right? Jimmer is a guy with one niche skill. Without undermining his ability to put points on the board, the flaws in his game are evident - step slow on defense, struggles to get the ball up the court, not much of a facilitator, etc. DJ on the other hand is on a completely different level in terms of running the offense, setting up teammates, scoring at will and more. In that sense, DJ helps the team a hell of a lot more than Jimmer does.

That said, Jimmer is a good player, we all love him not just for his character but also because his scoring ability is very enticing, but as many have noted, he's probably limited to playing SG in a dual-PG lineup.

As someone who haw watched pretty much every single game Jimmer has played in I don't agree with this at all really.

What don't you agree with? Are you telling me he's as good of a ball handler/distributor as DJ?

Jimmer's lower on the depth chart for a reason.

[Npliam]

This.

Jimmer is a scorer/shooter. No one's discrediting his ability to do that in the slightest, in fact, the majority of the board, myself included, have a bias towards Jimmer, pining for him to get more than just scrub minutes.

You do realize these guys are POINT GUARDS right? Jimmer is a guy with one niche skill. Without undermining his ability to put points on the board, the flaws in his game are evident - step slow on defense, struggles to get the ball up the court, not much of a facilitator, etc. DJ on the other hand is on a completely different level in terms of running the offense, setting up teammates, scoring at will and more. In that sense, DJ helps the team a hell of a lot more than Jimmer does.

That said, Jimmer is a good player, we all love him not just for his character but also because his scoring ability is very enticing, but as many have noted, he's probably limited to playing SG in a dual-PG lineup.

As someone who haw watched pretty much every single game Jimmer has played in I don't agree with this at all really.

What don't you agree with? Are you telling me he's as good of a ball handler/distributor as DJ?

Jimmer's lower on the depth chart for a reason.

There are several things in your post that I don't agree with so here goes:
Jimmer has much more than one niche skill. He can shoot and shoot very well but he can score in just about every way possible. He can get to the rim he can hit the pullup mid range jumper and he can get to the free throw line. He has many offensive skills.

Jimmer's lack of defensive ability is so vastly overblown that it is almost comical. Jimmer mostly does a good job of staying in front of his man and playing to the team defensive concept. Does he get beat? Absolutely. You know who else gets beat on defense? EVERY single player in the NBA. Every single one gets beat multiple times per game. Jimmer doesn't get beat any more than the average NBA gaurd. Is he Kirk? no. Is he getting beat so bad that he can't play? Not at all. Watch the last game he played 30 minutes in.

DJ isn't on a completely different level running a team. He had damn well better be better than Jimmer at running this team as he has been doing it much, much longer but he isn't a better offensive player than Jimmer. They both have a PER of about 16 but Jimmer is shooting 47% and 47% from the field while DJ is shooting 41% and 40%. Jimmer hasn't played nearly as many minutes so maybe his stats would go down if he were given more consistent playing time but they might also go up if he were given a chance to establish a rhythm. Jimmer also has a very high basketball IQ will consistently make good basketball decisions. He can get into the paint and is a willing passer. DJ is better becasue he gets to play but let's not pretend that he is so much better at running an offense that Jimmer could never be able to compete.

Also "scoring at will" lol.....

He is my take on Jimmer. When he makes mistakes he looks very bad. He isn't a aesthetically pleasing player. He doesn't look good dribbling up the court. Despite all this he is very effective. He can make plays that other players can't make. Can he make every play that DJ can make? No, he can't but he can do things that DJ can't do that helps the team win.

[GimmeDat]

As someone who haw watched pretty much every single game Jimmer has played in I don't agree with this at all really.

What don't you agree with? Are you telling me he's as good of a ball handler/distributor as DJ?

Jimmer's lower on the depth chart for a reason.

There are several things in your post that I don't agree with so here goes:
Jimmer has much more than one niche skill. He can shoot and shoot very well but he can score in just about every way possible. He can get to the rim he can hit the pullup mid range jumper and he can get to the free throw line. He has many offensive skills.

Jimmer's lack of defensive ability is so vastly overblown that it is almost comical. Jimmer mostly does a good job of staying in front of his man and playing to the team defensive concept. Does he get beat? Absolutely. You know who else gets beat on defense? EVERY single player in the NBA. Every single one gets beat multiple times per game. Jimmer doesn't get beat any more than the average NBA gaurd. Is he Kirk? no. Is he getting beat so bad that he can't play? Not at all. Watch the last game he played 30 minutes in.

DJ isn't on a completely different level running a team. He had damn well better be better than Jimmer at running this team as he has been doing it much, much longer but he isn't a better offensive player than Jimmer. They both have a PER of about 16 but Jimmer is shooting 47% and 47% from the field while DJ is shooting 41% and 40%. Jimmer hasn't played nearly as many minutes so maybe his stats would go down if he were given more consistent playing time but they might also go up if he were given a chance to establish a rhythm. Jimmer also has a very high basketball IQ will consistently make good basketball decisions. He can get into the paint and is a willing passer. DJ is better becasue he gets to play but let's not pretend that he is so much better at running an offense that Jimmer could never be able to compete.

Also "scoring at will" lol.....

He is my take on Jimmer. When he makes mistakes he looks very bad. He isn't a aesthetically pleasing player. He doesn't look good dribbling up the court. Despite all this he is very effective. He can make plays that other players can't make. Can he make every play that DJ can make? No, he can't but he can do things that DJ can't do that helps the team win.

Score in every way possible? He can hit the 3 at an elite rate, both catch and shoot and off the dribble, and he can indeed knock down the mid-range exceptionally as well.. as I said, he is an excellent shooter and thus scorer. That said, he absolutely is not a good player in terms of taking it to the rim or getting to the line... He's too slow and too short to score at the rim if anyone contests him, and so, playing within his limits, he attacks the PnR looking for a jumpshot - therefore, he wouldn't get a lot of shooting fouls.

The eye test is all I need to tell you that Jimmer struggles running the offense compared to a guy like DJ or Kirk. He was lucky not to get multiple TO's just trying to get it up the court the other night, the opposition PG's were really targeting him because of that. It was a bit like watching Marquis Teague run the point, (though he's not that bad ofc), where he's running through the motions but not really creating many opportunities for anyone else.

He succeeded best when Jo had the ball or he was placed next to Kirk and was allowed to run off screens, that's when he was most devastating offensively.

There's a whole bunch of variables for why Jimmer's shooting 47% compared to DJ's 41%... come on. You can't pick out stats from such a small sample size and tell me that Jimmer's the better offensive player. By that logic you might as well say Jimmer's averaging 20ppg per 36.

Again, he's great, don't get me wrong, and if you give him minutes he will score at an excellent rate. However, his flaws are real, and to say he's better than DJ is completely undermining what DJ's done for this team this year.

[Npliam]

What don't you agree with? Are you telling me he's as good of a ball handler/distributor as DJ?

Jimmer's lower on the depth chart for a reason.

There are several things in your post that I don't agree with so here goes:
Jimmer has much more than one niche skill. He can shoot and shoot very well but he can score in just about every way possible. He can get to the rim he can hit the pullup mid range jumper and he can get to the free throw line. He has many offensive skills.

Jimmer's lack of defensive ability is so vastly overblown that it is almost comical. Jimmer mostly does a good job of staying in front of his man and playing to the team defensive concept. Does he get beat? Absolutely. You know who else gets beat on defense? EVERY single player in the NBA. Every single one gets beat multiple times per game. Jimmer doesn't get beat any more than the average NBA gaurd. Is he Kirk? no. Is he getting beat so bad that he can't play? Not at all. Watch the last game he played 30 minutes in.

DJ isn't on a completely different level running a team. He had damn well better be better than Jimmer at running this team as he has been doing it much, much longer but he isn't a better offensive player than Jimmer. They both have a PER of about 16 but Jimmer is shooting 47% and 47% from the field while DJ is shooting 41% and 40%. Jimmer hasn't played nearly as many minutes so maybe his stats would go down if he were given more consistent playing time but they might also go up if he were given a chance to establish a rhythm. Jimmer also has a very high basketball IQ will consistently make good basketball decisions. He can get into the paint and is a willing passer. DJ is better becasue he gets to play but let's not pretend that he is so much better at running an offense that Jimmer could never be able to compete.

Also "scoring at will" lol.....

He is my take on Jimmer. When he makes mistakes he looks very bad. He isn't a aesthetically pleasing player. He doesn't look good dribbling up the court. Despite all this he is very effective. He can make plays that other players can't make. Can he make every play that DJ can make? No, he can't but he can do things that DJ can't do that helps the team win.

Score in every way possible? He can hit the 3 at an elite rate, both catch and shoot and off the dribble, and he can indeed knock down the mid-range exceptionally as well.. as I said, he is an excellent shooter and thus scorer. That said, he absolutely is not a good player in terms of taking it to the rim or getting to the line... He's too slow and too short to score at the rim if anyone contests him, and so, playing within his limits, he attacks the PnR looking for a jumpshot - therefore, he wouldn't get a lot of shooting fouls.

The eye test is all I need to tell you that Jimmer struggles running the offense compared to a guy like DJ or Kirk. He was lucky not to get multiple TO's just trying to get it up the court the other night, the opposition PG's were really targeting him because of that. It was a bit like watching Marquis Teague run the point, (though he's not that bad ofc), where he's running through the motions but not really creating many opportunities for anyone else.

He succeeded best when Jo had the ball or he was placed next to Kirk and was allowed to run off screens, that's when he was most devastating offensively.

There's a whole bunch of variables for why Jimmer's shooting 47% compared to DJ's 41%... come on. You can't pick out stats from such a small sample size and tell me that Jimmer's the better offensive player. By that logic you might as well say Jimmer's averaging 20ppg per 36.

Again, he's great, don't get me wrong, and if you give him minutes he will score at an excellent rate. However, his flaws are real, and to say he's better than DJ is completely undermining what DJ's done for this team this year.

"The eye test is all I need to tell you that Jimmer struggles running the offense compared to a guy like DJ or Kirk."
Pretty much what I thought you would say. You can keep your "eye test" and I will keep my stats. You also realize that you are using your "eye test" on a player that played his first 30 real minutes for the Bulls all season.

I don't want to get too carried away here as I don't think you attacking Jimmer and feel like you like him. I just don't agree with your take on his skill set as it relates to DJ.

[Npliam]

There are several things in your post that I don't agree with so here goes:
Jimmer has much more than one niche skill. He can shoot and shoot very well but he can score in just about every way possible. He can get to the rim he can hit the pullup mid range jumper and he can get to the free throw line. He has many offensive skills.

Jimmer's lack of defensive ability is so vastly overblown that it is almost comical. Jimmer mostly does a good job of staying in front of his man and playing to the team defensive concept. Does he get beat? Absolutely. You know who else gets beat on defense? EVERY single player in the NBA. Every single one gets beat multiple times per game. Jimmer doesn't get beat any more than the average NBA gaurd. Is he Kirk? no. Is he getting beat so bad that he can't play? Not at all. Watch the last game he played 30 minutes in.

DJ isn't on a completely different level running a team. He had damn well better be better than Jimmer at running this team as he has been doing it much, much longer but he isn't a better offensive player than Jimmer. They both have a PER of about 16 but Jimmer is shooting 47% and 47% from the field while DJ is shooting 41% and 40%. Jimmer hasn't played nearly as many minutes so maybe his stats would go down if he were given more consistent playing time but they might also go up if he were given a chance to establish a rhythm. Jimmer also has a very high basketball IQ will consistently make good basketball decisions. He can get into the paint and is a willing passer. DJ is better becasue he gets to play but let's not pretend that he is so much better at running an offense that Jimmer could never be able to compete.

Also "scoring at will" lol.....

He is my take on Jimmer. When he makes mistakes he looks very bad. He isn't a aesthetically pleasing player. He doesn't look good dribbling up the court. Despite all this he is very effective. He can make plays that other players can't make. Can he make every play that DJ can make? No, he can't but he can do things that DJ can't do that helps the team win.

Score in every way possible? He can hit the 3 at an elite rate, both catch and shoot and off the dribble, and he can indeed knock down the mid-range exceptionally as well.. as I said, he is an excellent shooter and thus scorer. That said, he absolutely is not a good player in terms of taking it to the rim or getting to the line... He's too slow and too short to score at the rim if anyone contests him, and so, playing within his limits, he attacks the PnR looking for a jumpshot - therefore, he wouldn't get a lot of shooting fouls.

The eye test is all I need to tell you that Jimmer struggles running the offense compared to a guy like DJ or Kirk. He was lucky not to get multiple TO's just trying to get it up the court the other night, the opposition PG's were really targeting him because of that. It was a bit like watching Marquis Teague run the point, (though he's not that bad ofc), where he's running through the motions but not really creating many opportunities for anyone else.

He succeeded best when Jo had the ball or he was placed next to Kirk and was allowed to run off screens, that's when he was most devastating offensively.

There's a whole bunch of variables for why Jimmer's shooting 47% compared to DJ's 41%... come on. You can't pick out stats from such a small sample size and tell me that Jimmer's the better offensive player. By that logic you might as well say Jimmer's averaging 20ppg per 36.

Again, he's great, don't get me wrong, and if you give him minutes he will score at an excellent rate. However, his flaws are real, and to say he's better than DJ is completely undermining what DJ's done for this team this year.

"The eye test is all I need to tell you that Jimmer struggles running the offense compared to a guy like DJ or Kirk."
Pretty much what I thought you would say. You can keep your "eye test" and I will keep my stats. You also realize that you are using your "eye test" on a player that played his first 30 real minutes for the Bulls all season.

I don't want to get too carried away here as I don't think you attacking Jimmer and feel like you like him. I just don't agree with your take on his skill set as it relates to DJ. I do think you have me confused with other posters that made claims the Jimmer was Better than DJ. I didn't say that. I don't think there is a huge difference or that DJ is on another level. That is all.

[GimmeDat]

There are several things in your post that I don't agree with so here goes:
Jimmer has much more than one niche skill. He can shoot and shoot very well but he can score in just about every way possible. He can get to the rim he can hit the pullup mid range jumper and he can get to the free throw line. He has many offensive skills.

Jimmer's lack of defensive ability is so vastly overblown that it is almost comical. Jimmer mostly does a good job of staying in front of his man and playing to the team defensive concept. Does he get beat? Absolutely. You know who else gets beat on defense? EVERY single player in the NBA. Every single one gets beat multiple times per game. Jimmer doesn't get beat any more than the average NBA gaurd. Is he Kirk? no. Is he getting beat so bad that he can't play? Not at all. Watch the last game he played 30 minutes in.

DJ isn't on a completely different level running a team. He had damn well better be better than Jimmer at running this team as he has been doing it much, much longer but he isn't a better offensive player than Jimmer. They both have a PER of about 16 but Jimmer is shooting 47% and 47% from the field while DJ is shooting 41% and 40%. Jimmer hasn't played nearly as many minutes so maybe his stats would go down if he were given more consistent playing time but they might also go up if he were given a chance to establish a rhythm. Jimmer also has a very high basketball IQ will consistently make good basketball decisions. He can get into the paint and is a willing passer. DJ is better becasue he gets to play but let's not pretend that he is so much better at running an offense that Jimmer could never be able to compete.

Also "scoring at will" lol.....

He is my take on Jimmer. When he makes mistakes he looks very bad. He isn't a aesthetically pleasing player. He doesn't look good dribbling up the court. Despite all this he is very effective. He can make plays that other players can't make. Can he make every play that DJ can make? No, he can't but he can do things that DJ can't do that helps the team win.

Score in every way possible? He can hit the 3 at an elite rate, both catch and shoot and off the dribble, and he can indeed knock down the mid-range exceptionally as well.. as I said, he is an excellent shooter and thus scorer. That said, he absolutely is not a good player in terms of taking it to the rim or getting to the line... He's too slow and too short to score at the rim if anyone contests him, and so, playing within his limits, he attacks the PnR looking for a jumpshot - therefore, he wouldn't get a lot of shooting fouls.

The eye test is all I need to tell you that Jimmer struggles running the offense compared to a guy like DJ or Kirk. He was lucky not to get multiple TO's just trying to get it up the court the other night, the opposition PG's were really targeting him because of that. It was a bit like watching Marquis Teague run the point, (though he's not that bad ofc), where he's running through the motions but not really creating many opportunities for anyone else.

He succeeded best when Jo had the ball or he was placed next to Kirk and was allowed to run off screens, that's when he was most devastating offensively.

There's a whole bunch of variables for why Jimmer's shooting 47% compared to DJ's 41%... come on. You can't pick out stats from such a small sample size and tell me that Jimmer's the better offensive player. By that logic you might as well say Jimmer's averaging 20ppg per 36.

Again, he's great, don't get me wrong, and if you give him minutes he will score at an excellent rate. However, his flaws are real, and to say he's better than DJ is completely undermining what DJ's done for this team this year.

"The eye test is all I need to tell you that Jimmer struggles running the offense compared to a guy like DJ or Kirk."
Pretty much what I thought you would say. You can keep your "eye test" and I will keep my stats. You also realize that you are using your "eye test" on a player that played his first 30 real minutes for the Bulls all season.

I don't want to get too carried away here as I don't think you attacking Jimmer and feel like you like him. I just don't agree with your take on his skill set as it relates to DJ.

Yeah I do like him.

The thing is, the eye test is probably more relevant than statistics when it's such a small sample size.

When there's a guy who signs a 10 day contract or only gets limited minutes, no one's gonna look at his stats and conclude much from them. Too many variables. Considering that was his first 30 real minutes for the Bulls, I think the eye test is of primary importance.

I can tell from watching that game that over the course of a season, with the hypothetical increase in responsibility and pressure that would come along with a larger role in the rotation, he would struggle with TO's and running the offense.

If you want statistical evidence for that, he's never averaged over 5 assists per 36 in his career. That's a red flag as a PG. In terms of assist/turnover ratio, DJ Augustin is at 2.5, Kirk at 2.38, Jimmer's at 1.33.

[Npliam]

Score in every way possible? He can hit the 3 at an elite rate, both catch and shoot and off the dribble, and he can indeed knock down the mid-range exceptionally as well.. as I said, he is an excellent shooter and thus scorer. That said, he absolutely is not a good player in terms of taking it to the rim or getting to the line... He's too slow and too short to score at the rim if anyone contests him, and so, playing within his limits, he attacks the PnR looking for a jumpshot - therefore, he wouldn't get a lot of shooting fouls.

The eye test is all I need to tell you that Jimmer struggles running the offense compared to a guy like DJ or Kirk. He was lucky not to get multiple TO's just trying to get it up the court the other night, the opposition PG's were really targeting him because of that. It was a bit like watching Marquis Teague run the point, (though he's not that bad ofc), where he's running through the motions but not really creating many opportunities for anyone else.

He succeeded best when Jo had the ball or he was placed next to Kirk and was allowed to run off screens, that's when he was most devastating offensively.

There's a whole bunch of variables for why Jimmer's shooting 47% compared to DJ's 41%... come on. You can't pick out stats from such a small sample size and tell me that Jimmer's the better offensive player. By that logic you might as well say Jimmer's averaging 20ppg per 36.

Again, he's great, don't get me wrong, and if you give him minutes he will score at an excellent rate. However, his flaws are real, and to say he's better than DJ is completely undermining what DJ's done for this team this year.

"The eye test is all I need to tell you that Jimmer struggles running the offense compared to a guy like DJ or Kirk."
Pretty much what I thought you would say. You can keep your "eye test" and I will keep my stats. You also realize that you are using your "eye test" on a player that played his first 30 real minutes for the Bulls all season.

I don't want to get too carried away here as I don't think you attacking Jimmer and feel like you like him. I just don't agree with your take on his skill set as it relates to DJ.

Yeah I do like him.

The thing is, the eye test is probably more relevant than statistics when it's such a small sample size.

When there's a guy who signs a 10 day contract or only gets limited minutes, no one's gonna look at his stats and conclude much from them. Too many variables. Considering that was his first 30 real minutes for the Bulls, I think the eye test is of primary importance.

I can tell from watching that game that over the course of a season, with the hypothetical increase in responsibility and pressure that would come along with a larger role in the rotation, he would struggle with TO's and running the offense.

If you want statistical evidence for that, he's never averaged over 5 assists per 36 in his career. That's a red flag as a PG. In terms of assist/turnover ratio, DJ Augustin is at 2.5, Kirk at 2.38, Jimmer's at 1.33.

Those are valid points but Iet me add this, he didn't play the point in Sacramento for the first part of the year and when he did play the point for them he was the only player on the court that could hit a shot.

[Stratmaster]

As far as Boozer having to prove it in the playoffs, contrary to popular belief he has always performed in the playoffs, although he had one putrid playoff run with the Bulls. I'm not saying he has been a star or carried a team. But he has performed well. If a nyone has anything to prove in the playoffs, it is Taj. Go back and look.

What Carlos did at 25 in Utah doesn't really interest me. And he wasn't that great back then either, go ask Utah fans. He couldn't handle the size of the Lakers and didn't perform in crunch time of their big games (neither Deron, the whole problem with that team, no alpha).

Just for the Bulls he's been a disappointment in the playoffs. The Bulls were expecting about 20 PPG on excellent efficiency as per a quality 2nd option making 15m and he's been nowhere close.

2011 was a disaster. 2012 he totally wet the bed after Rose went down, when he should have stepped up and took charge of the offense. And 2013 he was good only vs Reggie Evans then a no show vs Miami.

Have to remember, Taj Gibson is a defense first player, that's where his impact is. You don't just rate him on pure production as much as Carlos, since Carlos is a one sided offensive player. But even by pure production over their time together here, Taj would have the higher playoff scoring efficiency while only scoring a point or two less per 36.

Boozer's playoff performances for the Bulls (or lack thereof) is a big reason he's on the fasttrack to amnesty.

Same old stuff, different day. What Taj did for 2 4 game stretches in the regular season during January and February doesn't interest me. But I hope he finds that magic again in the playoffs. I guess time will tell, eh? But, my point, as it was, is that the Bulls need a solid Boozer to have any chance in the playoffs. You just want to continue explaining why Boozer sucks, which doesn't refute my point, or even address it, whatsoever. I think I have a pretty clear feel for what you think of Boozer, and my post was saying it was time to stop the BS... all for one and one for all. It appears when it comes to Boozer, that is difficult for you.

[Stratmaster]

I think Thibs has found something about Boozer which doesn't penalize the team. Boozer probably needs to warm-up before he plays well and also the Bulls desperately need a second ball handler other than just the PG in the 4th quarter. The only one they have other than Kirk is DJ who is as deficient on defense as much as Boozer. He needs DJ's ball handling on the floor in the 4th quarter more than Boozer's whatever offense.

There is no way he can also play Boozer and DJ together on the same floor. I don't think this will change in the playoffs because the games will be close and there will be trapping/intense defense going on against the Bulls. You need a few ball handlers on the floor and that's all Thibs is doing.

Good point. The Bulls have not fared well with DJ and Boozer on the court at the same time. In fact, they have pretty much stunk.

[Rerisen]

Same old stuff, different day. What Taj did for 2 4 game stretches in the regular season during January and February doesn't interest me. But I hope he finds that magic again in the playoffs. I guess time will tell, eh? But, my point, as it was, is that the Bulls need a solid Boozer to have any chance in the playoffs. You just want to continue explaining why Boozer sucks, which doesn't refute my point, or even address it, whatsoever. I think I have a pretty clear feel for what you think of Boozer, and my post was saying it was time to stop the BS... all for one and one for all. It appears when it comes to Boozer, that is difficult for you.

Except, no, that wasn't your only point. We both would like to see Carlos perform in the playoffs, very easy to agree on that. But you also said Boozer had 'performed well in the playoffs'. Which has not been true for the Bulls. So you open a dialogue then get ruffled when the statement is examined for accuracy.

If you feel quoting his playoff performance and calling it for what it was is "BS" then you must think his play has been BS. Either that, or have incredibly low standards for performance.

If Boozer were to perform this post-season in equal to the average of his 3 previous post-seasons here, then he should not play over the 24 minutes he has been getting of late. And even those 24 we would be hard pressed to prevail over. Hopefully he can do much better.

[Stratmaster]

Same old stuff, different day. What Taj did for 2 4 game stretches in the regular season during January and February doesn't interest me. But I hope he finds that magic again in the playoffs. I guess time will tell, eh? But, my point, as it was, is that the Bulls need a solid Boozer to have any chance in the playoffs. You just want to continue explaining why Boozer sucks, which doesn't refute my point, or even address it, whatsoever. I think I have a pretty clear feel for what you think of Boozer, and my post was saying it was time to stop the BS... all for one and one for all. It appears when it comes to Boozer, that is difficult for you.

Except, no, that wasn't your only point. We both would like to see Carlos perform in the playoffs, very easy to agree on that. But you also said Boozer had 'performed well in the playoffs'. Which has not been true for the Bulls. So you open a dialogue then get ruffled when the statement is examined for accuracy.

If you feel quoting his playoff performance and calling it for what it was is "BS" then you must think his play has been BS. Either that, or have incredibly low standards for performance.

If Boozer were to perform this post-season in equal to the average of his 3 previous post-seasons here, then he should not play over the 24 minutes he has been getting of late. And even those 24 we would be hard pressed to prevail over. Hopefully he can do much better.

Boozer was a known playoff performer in Utah. That is exactly why the bulls got him. You discounted that and made the flippant "I don't care what he did when he was 25" statement. He played on one wheel his first season in the playoffs with the Bulls. He was their best overall playoff performer last season, although he had his ups and downs, and he certainly didn't have the high/low bipolar performances like everyone's favorite PG last year. I already said he had one bad playoff run with the Bulls. What exactly are you trying to say other than that?

So back to my original point? If you care to address it? If not, so be it.

[Rerisen]

Boozer was a known playoff performer in Utah. That is exactly why the bulls got him. You discounted that and made the flippant "I don't care what he did when he was 25" statement. He played on one wheel his first season in the playoffs with the Bulls. He was their best overall playoff performer last season, although he had his ups and downs, and he certainly didn't have the high/low bipolar performances like everyone's favorite PG last year. I already said he had one bad playoff run with the Bulls. What exactly are you trying to say other than that?

So back to my original point? If you care to address it? If not, so be it.

No, not back to your original point just yet. You don't make a counter-point, then say discussion over now let's talk about B. That's bad form.

Boozer was roughly the same in the playoffs and regular season in Utah, except one very poor playoff run. I think the Bulls signed him because of his overall body of work and hoping it would hold up not just his playoff numbers. But that body of work did not hold up, he played much worse for us, and worse yet in the playoffs.

He also wasn't our best playoff performer last year. That was Noah or Butler. Boozer can never escape that his bad defense drags down the impact of his offense, which last year, was overall quite weak in the playoffs (.524 TS% - that's below league average).

Now we can get back to the original point. Do the Bulls *need* Boozer in the playoffs. Well that's a subjective thing to rate. They probably don't need that much out of him to get by Washington, though it would certainly help. They definitely need him to at least not get killed by whatever big man (Gortat or Nene) he has to guard in his minutes. They would probably need better than he's given on the year in total to get by Indiana though.

I very much doubt in any case, Thibs has some secret plan to start playing Boozer 30 minutes in the playoffs, or expecting prime level performance out of him, and that that's why he's been dwindling his minutes, to prepare for some kind of last hurrah out of him.

[MadMike]

I love to listen to the so called experts pick the sure thing/ higher seeds before the playoffs begin. And they get paid to do this?!

[Stratmaster]

Boozer was a known playoff performer in Utah. That is exactly why the bulls got him. You discounted that and made the flippant "I don't care what he did when he was 25" statement. He played on one wheel his first season in the playoffs with the Bulls. He was their best overall playoff performer last season, although he had his ups and downs, and he certainly didn't have the high/low bipolar performances like everyone's favorite PG last year. I already said he had one bad playoff run with the Bulls. What exactly are you trying to say other than that?

So back to my original point? If you care to address it? If not, so be it.

No, not back to your original point just yet. You don't make a counter-point, then say discussion over now let's talk about B. That's bad form.

Boozer was roughly the same in the playoffs and regular season in Utah, except one very poor playoff run. I think the Bulls signed him because of his overall body of work and hoping it would hold up not just his playoff numbers. But that body of work did not hold up, he played much worse for us, and worse yet in the playoffs.

He also wasn't our best playoff performer last year. That was Noah or Butler. Boozer can never escape that his bad defense drags down the impact of his offense, which last year, was overall quite weak in the playoffs (.524 TS% - that's below league average).

Now we can get back to the original point. Do the Bulls *need* Boozer in the playoffs. Well that's a subjective thing to rate. They probably don't need that much out of him to get by Washington, though it would certainly help. They definitely need him to at least not get killed by whatever big man (Gortat or Nene) he has to guard in his minutes. They would probably need better than he's given on the year in total to get by Indiana though.

I very much doubt in any case, Thibs has some secret plan to start playing Boozer 30 minutes in the playoffs, or expecting prime level performance out of him, and that that's why he's been dwindling his minutes, to prepare for some kind of last hurrah out of him.

Playing the same in the playoffs as in the regular season is a good thing. Not a bad thing. But honestly re, if an summarize your position in any discussion of boozer in two words. Boozer sucks. What a surprise. So back to my original point...you say they don't need him against Washington. I wasn't only pointing to the first round. But if boozer sucks the bulls will likely lose even to Washington. You disagree. So be it. Are we done now?