Is Thibs a "Point A to Point B but not C" guy

[Droseisthe1]

There is a lot less talent disparity among NBA teams than most fans think IMO. For example, I believe the difference between Kidd Gilchrist and Derozan and Lebron isn't as extreme as many would think it is. Obviously it's there but I think it's oversold. I don't think we have really poor talent. The team has been pretty stacked in Thibbs era with current and former all stars, and lottery pick pedigree guys.

Please stop right there. Please.

[the ultimates]

How many people on this board have posted stats saying Snell is terrible, Whether looking at PER or regular and adjusted plus minus? So in order to get Jimmy rest you have to play Snell 12-15 minutes right? Please tell me the coach that is going to play one of his worst players that many minutes in a playoff game? I'm not saying Snell won't improve or have upside but he isn't ready for that now. Playing players heavy minutes in the playoffs isn't that big a deal because you have off days between games.

[keshmoney]

How many people on this board have posted stats saying Snell is terrible, Whether looking at PER or regular and adjusted plus minus? So in order to get Jimmy rest you have to play Snell 12-15 minutes right? Please tell me the coach that is going to play one of his worst players that many minutes in a playoff game? I'm not saying Snell won't improve or have upside but he isn't ready for that now. Playing players heavy minutes in the playoffs isn't that big a deal because you have off days between games.

Mike Dunleavy can play a little more than 27 minutes.

[Droseisthe1]

Another year of regular season wins and a bad playoff exit will get him fired, and deservedly so. He's a good coach, but his flaws are fatal.

Thibs has yet to underachieve on the Bulls so this whole "another" that you talk about is baseless.

[League Circles]

Another year of regular season wins and a bad playoff exit will get him fired, and deservedly so. He's a good coach, but his flaws are fatal.

It's posts like these that make me glad I don't have you guys running the team!

Another bad playoff exit? Another? Name one series other than Philly 1st round when Derrick tore his knee that they should have won that they didn't?

You're so short-sighted. You've forgotten just how gutted this roster has been for the better part of 2 3/4 seasons and yet we still remain relevant.

Fire Thibs and then what? George Karl? Avery Johnson? No thanks. Yeah his substitution patterns are stubborn but in all honesty, we don't even deserve Thibs if this is how we as a fan base think of him. Pathetic.

Perhaps he should have figured out a way to beat Miami in 2011, you know, like the **** Dallas Mavericks did. Or at least win more than game 1.

You act like Thibbs has some long playoff record. He has won 3 of 6 series. I'm not saying he's been bad, but his playoff coaching isn't some great thing so far.

And I'm not sure how "relevant" we are right now. A strong argument can be made that we are the 14th best team in the NBA out of 30 teams.

[League Circles]

There is a lot less talent disparity among NBA teams than most fans think IMO. For example, I believe the difference between Kidd Gilchrist and Derozan and Lebron isn't as extreme as many would think it is. Obviously it's there but I think it's oversold. I don't think we have really poor talent. The team has been pretty stacked in Thibbs era with current and former all stars, and lottery pick pedigree guys.

Please stop right there. Please.

No.

[Droseisthe1]

Another year of regular season wins and a bad playoff exit will get him fired, and deservedly so. He's a good coach, but his flaws are fatal.

It's posts like these that make me glad I don't have you guys running the team!

Another bad playoff exit? Another? Name one series other than Philly 1st round when Derrick tore his knee that they should have won that they didn't?

You're so short-sighted. You've forgotten just how gutted this roster has been for the better part of 2 3/4 seasons and yet we still remain relevant.

Fire Thibs and then what? George Karl? Avery Johnson? No thanks. Yeah his substitution patterns are stubborn but in all honesty, we don't even deserve Thibs if this is how we as a fan base think of him. Pathetic.

Perhaps he should have figured out a way to beat Miami in 2011, you know, like the **** Dallas Mavericks did. Or at least win more than game 1.

You act like Thibbs has some long playoff record. He has won 3 of 6 series. I'm not saying he's been bad, but his playoff coaching isn't some great thing so far.

And I'm not sure how "relevant" we are right now. A strong argument can be made that we are the 14th best team in the NBA out of 30 teams.

3 out of 6 playoff series. Hmm...funny...literally Rose has played in 3 of them and Rose and Deng combined have played in 4? Good luck to any coach trying to win then.

They should've beaten Miami in 2011? Fair, but when's the last time we've seen a team make it all the way to the finals in their first true run together?

His playoff coaching record is certainly good enough that it doesn't justify your comments of "another bad playoff exit" and he's gone.

He still hasn't had a bad playoff exit.

And "relevancy" is a relative term. What I mean by that is we are still a very respected team around the league so the theory with that is guys will want to come play for Thibs i.e. Melo.

If the Bulls fell into a sub .500 culture these past 2 years (which every other team would have except the spurs)(case and point the Lakers), then who knows what the future would hold for this franchise in terms of potentially attracting talent.

[The 6ft Hurdle]

Just read Doug's article on this a minute ago, and I agree with every word he wrote. Thibideau will not lead this team to a championship until he can get over his stubborn ways of running a team. His players are always dead ass tired at the end of every season because he runs them straight into the ground for meaningless regular season victories.

He always says "We'll go with what got us here" but somebody needs to tell him what got them here doesn't include playing the Wizards for all 82 games. The playoffs are a different animal. You need to be able to adjust to your opponents strengths and weakness during the course of a playoff series, and that sometimes involve making tweaks to your lineups/rotations; something he absolutely refuses to do.

I really believe that next year is make or break for him. We know the front office isn't in love with him, and you can bet a lot of it has to do with this very topic of his obsession with the regular season and his coaching philosophy in general.

Another year of regular season wins and a bad playoff exit will get him fired, and deservedly so. He's a good coach, but his flaws are fatal.

I think Thibs is the most proven coach in the regular season given what he's had to deal with the past few years. If there's any coach that deserves the benefit of the doubt and tons of confidence, it seems to be him.

However, he's had a much shakier record as far as the Playoffs are concerned. I don't sense the same flow or confidence, especially this year.

I think it's more to do with personnel shortcomings and the strength of other teams' talent, though I'm not quite sure what the excuse is this year as a #4 seed losing to a #5 TWICE at home.

[Axl Rose]

Jimmy "wait, Im my own backup" Butler

lmao thats gold

[Payt10]

Another bad playoff exit? Another? Name one series other than Philly 1st round when Derrick tore his knee that they should have won that they didn't?

Another, as in another series that ends like this one where the head coach is rightfully being criticized for the lack of what I would call "common sense moves" that have not been made in regards to the starting lineup and distribution of minutes.

Also, I want to see him learn to become more flexible during the regular season. Stop running out 7 man rotations to win meaningless regular season games. Take a page from The Gregg Popaviches, Doc Rivers, Phil Jackson, hell, even Eric Spoelstra understands how to rest guys.

You're so short-sighted. You've forgotten just how gutted this roster has been for the better part of 2 3/4 seasons and yet we still remain relevant.

On the contrary, my entire point IS on the bigger picture. What good is a team that runs out of gas in the playoffs?

We don't even deserve Thibs if this is how we as a fan base think of him. Pathetic.

Lol

[League Circles]

3 out of 6 playoff series. Hmm...funny...literally Rose has played in 3 of them and Rose and Deng combined have played in 4? Good luck to any coach trying to win then.

They should've beaten Miami in 2011? Fair, but when's the last time we've seen a team make it all the way to the finals in their first true run together?

Miami was in their first year together and beat us convincingly and went on to the finals.

His playoff coaching record is certainly good enough that it doesn't justify your comments of "another bad playoff exit" and he's gone.

He still hasn't had a bad playoff exit.

I didn't make those comments, that was someone else.

I'd agree he hasn't had a bad playoff exit, though so far this series is pretty bad. But I also don't think he's had some great praiseworthy playoff series win either. I don't really think Thibbs has been a big factor plus or minus in the playoffs so far. Hopefully he becomes a big plus factor, but I don't see it yet.

And "relevancy" is a relative term. What I mean by that is we are still a very respected team around the league so the theory with that is guys will want to come play for Thibs i.e. Melo.

If the Bulls fell into a sub .500 culture these past 2 years (which every other team would have except the spurs)(case and point the Lakers), then who knows what the future would hold for this franchise in terms of potentially attracting talent.

Personally I don't think our record or Thibbs is a major plus factor in potentially recruiting Melo. I think these are all much bigger factors:

1. Ability to pay/cap space
2. Rose
3. City of Chicago/fanbase/facilities/organization/market
4. Noah

If anything, I think it may have crossed Melo's mind that playing for Thibbs might be unappealing which is why I think he's been asking around about it. I think in the end Thibbs may end up being a pretty neutral factor in pursuing Melo.

[Chicago Brawls]

The Bulls don't have enough point C players.

It's just like people refuse to look up our roster.

[Red Larrivee]

There are some coaches who are considered championship-level coaches, but never won championships. Jerry Sloan and Rick Adelman are prime examples. Two coaches who would likely have championships if it weren't for Phil Jackson having Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant.

I guess not everyone can be as lucky as two-time NBA Champion Erik Spolestra.

Thibs is a very good coach, but when he doesn't have the talent his flaws are much more apparent:

6-13 in the playoffs without Derrick Rose.
10-7 in the playoffs with Derrick Rose.

Not having the talent is a key thing. I mean, what else do you expect with this current roster? We have about 7 NBA rotation players:

Hinrich
Butler
Dunleavy
Boozer
Noah
Gibson
Augustin

Keep in mind that one of those players was likely on his way out the league or to training-camp invite status if the Bulls hadn't saved his career.

Thibodeau is a rich man's Scott Skiles or Doug Collins. There's nothing wrong with that and you can win a championship with that type of coach. However, regardless of talent, Thibodeau at some point is going to have to slow down and learn how to pace a team during the regular season and make adjustments accordingly. Not every game has to be Game 7 of the NBA Finals. It only looks like Randy Wittman is outcoaching Thibs because Thibs coaches the same way in April as he does in November.

Also, the Bulls at some point are going to have to supply him with actual talent so he's not prone to relying on maximum effort every game.

[musiqsoulchild]

The Bulls don't have enough point C players.

It's just like people refuse to look up our roster.

This is also a great way to look at it.

We dont have enough Point C players available to suit up these past 3 playoffs.

Best guess is that you need about 5 of these players. We have consistently had maybe 1-2 during the playoffs.

2015, we will add Mirotic, Rose ....1 more Point C player to go.

[Stratmaster]

I don't think the question is appropriate...or a better way to say it "the question is moot".

I don't think Thibs should be fired.

I do have concerns that he is living in the 1990's, when the adage of every sport was "defense wins championships". That has changed in the NFL, and the NBA. Rules changes have been put in place to make it easier on the offense. You can't win just by having the best defensive team, and unlike football, you don;t get to switch all of your players every time the possession changes.

The Q4 lineup is not viable against playoff quality teams in the playoff environment. Thibs response is "we are going with they guys who got us here" which is basically dissing every player on the team other than the "Q4 5" as if they had no part in the Bulls making the playoffs. It also means that he has talent on the bench he stubbornly refuses to use. He is the fiddler playing while the ship sinks.

Thibs is not talented as a coach offensively. He needs an assistant who has offense as their main strength.

Between all of the above, I am genuinely concerned that he might not be "that" coach to finish the job and get to "point c" with C standing for Champions.

With all of that said, I agree with the posters who say that Thibs has not had championship level talent yet, at least not since the Bulls lost in the ECF. He had championship talent at that point. The fact it was this Bulls team's first trip deep into the playoffs does buy him some slack there, and the injuries since certainly would not have been overcome by any coach.... which brings me to my opening sentence. The question isn't appropriate or especially meaningful at this point. Only time will tell.

[SpinninHouse]

There is a lot less talent disparity among NBA teams than most fans think IMO. For example, I believe the difference between Kidd Gilchrist and Derozan and Lebron isn't as extreme as many would think it is. Obviously it's there but I think it's oversold. I don't think we have really poor talent. The team has been pretty stacked in Thibbs era with current and former all stars, and lottery pick pedigree guys.

Please stop right there. Please.

Seriously. One of the most absurd things I've ever read on RealGM - which is saying a lot.

[League Circles]

There is a lot less talent disparity among NBA teams than most fans think IMO. For example, I believe the difference between Kidd Gilchrist and Derozan and Lebron isn't as extreme as many would think it is. Obviously it's there but I think it's oversold. I don't think we have really poor talent. The team has been pretty stacked in Thibbs era with current and former all stars, and lottery pick pedigree guys.

Please stop right there. Please.

Seriously. One of the most absurd things I've ever read on RealGM - which is saying a lot.

Not sure if you're calling him or me absurd, but if it's me I think you guys should re-read what I wrote. Maybe you guys think I wrote that there isn't a big difference in talent between MKG and Lebron or something. Or that the Bulls have really high end talent. I didn't write those things.

[thefranchise3]

If Derrick Rose were here the last 3 postseasons and we got this same result, then yes he is. But, like it or not, you can't fully judge him without a fully healthy team. If you truly expected him to take the teams the last 3 years to point C, then you're being delusional and have unrealistic expectations.

[Mech Engineer]

We do not know the reasons why Thibs is doing this. It is more of a guess. Is he calculating a tired Jimmy Butler is better than a fresh Snell even for a few minutes? We have seen Snell come in and the game go into the tank during the regular season. It is stupid to proclaim Thibs is a stubborn minutes coach even though as a fan I keep second-guessing him

I think Thibs would put a player in if he feels that player can contribute. He is used to play Boozer/Brewer a lot of minutes in 2011. At this stage, he knows they are not good enough and thus he is limiting their minutes. It is not like he wants to run some guys into the ground or is spacing out while coaching.

[Dr Spaceman]

This is very clearly a case of the grass being greener.

How many coaches in the NBA would you legitimately trade Thibodeau for? My list is: Gregg Popovich and Rick Carlisle.

Keep in mind that coaches can progress, just like players can. Popovich went 5 years between his first title and his second. And after 2007, he didn't make the Finals again until 2013.

Look at how bad the Rockets are flailing and then come back and say you're unhappy with Thibs.