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Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls

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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#81 » by donaldtrump_00 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:45 pm

Rerisen wrote:
"One thing about Melo's game that people don't appreciate: He's the best, in my opinion, bar none, catch-and-shoot guy in the league. Now, does he overdribble? He's probably the most overdribbling guy in the league, but if he has someone who can just pass and get him wide-open jump shots, I think that his whole game would change and he'd be known maybe for winning."


And Harden's going to be the guy to pass him the ball, over Rose? What a moron.



harden is a different player then he was for okc. he wants to be the man. he wouldn't be taking less shots just because melo is over there. then u have Dwight howard over there who wants to be dominate in the paint. melo must plan on taking 15 shots pure game. two many ego's. want work. and then they talking about keeping parsons also. looks like a disaster to me
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#82 » by Dieselbound&Down » Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:51 pm

jl342323 wrote:Chris Webber is 100% correct. It is evident by how this bulls team establish spacing on offense. They just half ass everything. They got some players who have no idea how to space the floor properly. They have some guys just floating around he arc doing nothing, not even in a good position to catch and shoot. They have guys who arent sure whether to cut to the basket or stay put in the perimeter, resulting in even **** spacing. You shouldnt look further than the pathetic spacing the bulls play with every game.

NBA is evolving. You cant just play defense and win. You need to push the ball on transition and shoot the 3 ball well. Tom Thibodeau is stuck in the early 2000s building his team based on david robinson/tim duncan led spurs. Its not gonna turn out good for this team if this continues.

I hate that people keep bringing up their offensive rating in 10-11 and 11-12 season. They were efficient purely because they played with slow pace and were dominant on the offensive boards. They were nothing special on the half court or in the clutch. Their last 5 minutes gameplan consisted of derrick rose dribbling the ball for 20 seconds. And playing grinding defense on the other end.


I think the jury is still out on Thibs as an offensive coach. But I think the evidence so far is that he has been a little better than advertised. He has not had strong offensive players to work with on the whole. But the offense has gone through a few different stretches where it actually flowed pretty smoothly despite, and not because of, the players working in the system. He has also shown some adaptability in how he has focused the offense. Rose was primary. He has transitioned to Nate and the scrap heap point guard last year. He knew last year that without Rose he couldn't run his offense through the point and doing primarily PnR. He tried Deng which didn't look pretty because of Deng's limitations. He then ran it through Noah and Taj started getting the ball in much better positions through him. I don't consider these efforts to find an offense that works with his personnel trivial given the success he has had with it.

I think the biggest questions with Thibs are these:
1. Can he be more creative with a healthy Rose or other primary scorer.
2. Can he do a better job with his rotations in trusting and working in players who are limited defensively but have offensive abilities the team will need. Not just automatically default to the best defensive player.
3. Can he allow the team freer reign to push tempo and be creative within the offense so it grows and adds more facets and dimensions.
4. Generally can he let go enough of his impulse to control and allow the team to be better balanced.
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#83 » by bearadonisdna » Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:55 pm

try this on for size, melo was on a non playoff team in the same conference.
THe bulls were the 4th seed without a carmelo.
coaching is the knock? really. total propoganda.
guys like web have a total disconnect to the franchise , maybe this is why he wants them to play for houston. maybe he prefers houston for his own narrative since he was mostly succesful in the west.
propoganda if ur trying to make the bulls strength a con.

derp! (angrily)
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#84 » by Leto » Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:56 pm

Melo does not need an offensive coach. His offense if fine. He needs a defensive coach and a team that can play defense. Magilla is right about our offense too. We lost our best offensive player so, its kinda hard to say our offense is not any good. OTOH, Houston's team is completely healthy. Their problem is they can't stop Granny Clampet--healthy or not. And, you ain't winning squat with the kind of defense they play.
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#85 » by DanTown8587 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:10 am

How do people feel about the 09 and 10 Cavs teams? The 09 team was top 4 in both offense/defense, the 10 team was top 7.
...
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#86 » by bearadonisdna » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:13 am

carmelo and bg and its the offseason of offseasons.
or would it be bad to go back in time?
rose recruited kirk. i think ben gordons range (for us) is between RMLE and vet minimum.
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#87 » by Rerisen » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:17 am

DanTown8587 wrote:How do people feel about the 09 and 10 Cavs teams? The 09 team was top 4 in both offense/defense, the 10 team was top 7.


Needed a better 2nd creator.

Our FO must have failed to notice that our previous build of 'one man conductor' had already failed with much better leading men.
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#88 » by jl342323 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:21 am

DanTown8587 wrote:How do people feel about the 09 and 10 Cavs teams? The 09 team was top 4 in both offense/defense, the 10 team was top 7.


mike brown is a good nba offensive coach.

He was 2nd creator away from winning in cleveland.
“He don’t care (about offense). He just cares about defense. When we come down or shoot a bad shot or whatever, he don’t really care about that. -Rose talking about Thibs
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#89 » by bearadonisdna » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:23 am

Leto wrote:Melo does not need an offensive coach. His offense if fine. He needs a defensive coach and a team that can play defense. Magilla is right about our offense too. We lost our best offensive player so, its kinda hard to say our offense is not any good. OTOH, Houston's team is completely healthy. Their problem is they can't stop Granny Clampet--healthy or not. And, you ain't winning squat with the kind of defense they play.


(nba jam voice)
granny clampet is on fire! :lol:
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#90 » by RedBulls23 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:23 am

This is an odd stance by Weber. I would say he's throwing out propaganda, but what does he have to gain from it?

I think it likely is C WEBB just talking out of his rear end.
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#91 » by bearadonisdna » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:34 am

The rockets seem totally dysfunctional in the interior on both sides of the ball.
Cant stop a lick.
Cant get the ball to howard.

Um. Melo doesnt exactly solve that problem for them.
And what is melo to be expected to fix their interior defense?
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#92 » by cool007 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:34 am

jl342323 wrote:
DanTown8587 wrote:How do people feel about the 09 and 10 Cavs teams? The 09 team was top 4 in both offense/defense, the 10 team was top 7.


mike brown is a good nba offensive coach.

He was 2nd creator away from winning in cleveland.



Mike Brown is just a homeless version of Thibs both defensively AND offensively.

1 thing C-Webb needs to tell me that which player from Bulls roster would have done better on any other team??? I don't think he would be able to answer that.

Also, all the players that came to Bulls had their probably best year with the Bulls with Thibs coaching. So take that C-Webb.

Normally when you build team (a championship team), you need to have following -

1) a great go-to scorer that can score against anyone (Melo would provide that).
2) a great side-kick that can help when the main scorer is having an off night and is capable of scoring big when needed (Rose can provide that).
3) you need to have a great rebounding (Noah by himself provides that).
4) you need top defense - defense wins championship - I don't need to explain this as we got plenty.
5) you need shooters (Jury is still out but I am confident that our FO will be able to fill that out).

I don't see why Bulls is not a great destination for him but Houston is??? Houston is also in the West where they can be out in the first round let alone win it all.
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#93 » by coldfish » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:43 am

DanTown8587 wrote:How do people feel about the 09 and 10 Cavs teams? The 09 team was top 4 in both offense/defense, the 10 team was top 7.


Mike Brown is possibly the worst offensive coach of all time. He runs no plays. He basically tells his best player to go have fun. The fact that the Cavs were as good as they were was a massive credit to Lebron's all around game to some degree. I say "to some degree" because his game is actually catered to that. I think a San Antonio type system would be problems, or at least a huge adjustment for Lebron.

If Thibodeau was coach in Cleveland, the Cavs would have won at least one title. I'm not one to overstate the impact of coaches but the Cavs were very good and the difference between Brown and Thibs is huge. Enough to put them over the edge. Particularly since is was Thibodeau who was beating Lebron as defensive coach for the Celts.
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#94 » by NecessaryEvil » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:45 am

If we don't land a big fish this offseason, we may just never until the FO gets shifted and Reinsdorf isn't the owner. Former players and color analysts seem to hate Chicago. No respect around the league.
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#95 » by the ultimates » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:58 am

I find the Houston stuff Webber is saying completely and utterly stupid. They get good offensive numbers because they have good offensive players who stay healthy. Houston isn't running some complex offense especially in the half court. Let Harden iso is now a great offensive system? Throw it to Dwight who can't pass out of the post is great offensive system? Let Lin run pick and roll after pick and roll is great offensive system? If Carmelo goes to Houston somebody is going to be marginalized. With Harden and Carmelo being able to handle the ball that probably becomes Dwight who has complained about shots wherever he's been. Then people want to say team offensive rating doesn't mean anything it you can't score in the last five minutes, guess what with the exception of the Spurs most teams even the ones where people love the offense iso their best players down the stretch when Thibs does it no matter how weak his roster maybe he gets crucified for it. SMH
Losing to get high draft picks and hoping they turn into franchise players is not some next level, genius move. That's what teams want to happen in any rebuild/tank or whatever you want to market it as.
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#96 » by bearadonisdna » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:12 am

look guys i think we have to take into account the knicks rivalry with the bulls and melos history.
Cleveland hating the bulls and lebron being from ohio surely played a role imo retrospectively.
Bear in mind the ny and chi rivalry and how that could affect melos decision.
one thing going for us on that front is that JO, Taj , thibs have NY connections.
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#97 » by ItalianBull » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:55 am

Please Melo, listen to Webber. I dont want your selfish play here.
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#98 » by bulls_4_life » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:14 am

Timeout lol. So Anthony is supposed to take advice from Webber? OK. Now he's a guidance consular? This from a guy who can't even keep his own life straight.
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#99 » by WesleyExChiFan » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:50 am

Michael Jackson wrote:Thibs has run with the horses he has been given. He is an amazing defensive coach, that being said his offense has been good enough to still win. He doesn't have Skiles or Collins disease, by all reports Thibs is highly sought after and Melo likes the guy. Tom is not Pop. Pops might go down as the GOAT as a coach, but Thibs knows ball. Give him some non jimmy butlers and he will score. He let Nate and DJ play their game.
PREACH! Thank you for pointing that out. When he has people who can put the ball in the hole he cuts them loose. If they can't, he keeps a tight leash. Sounds like he knows what he's doing...
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Re: Webber: Melo Run from the Bulls 

Post#100 » by JDizzel3000 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:56 am

Webber is usually pretty good with his analysis ....but this one he is simply wrong on ... he's letting the past two seasons influence his opinion instead of looking at factual evidence

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