Marion to Cavs

[RedBulls23]

You can't take a tin can and keep beating on it again and again and ask me to sing along with you.

It's noise. Tinny, canny, noise.

You are being extremely speculative in the conclusions you draw from the data you are seeing.

You have every right to be a fan, but you can't have this much confirmation bias.

I'm not sure what I'm being biased about. Pretty much everything I stated was a fact. Feel free to address those statements with facts of your own if you like, but replies like the one above just demean you.

For example, calling Tristan Thompson a "poor player" is not a fact, nor is it based on reality. He averaged 11.7 and 9.2 and put up a 14.96, which is right about league average. I'm not saying he's a great player (he's not), but he is, at worst, average, and probably slightly above. Calling him a poor player, though, is just fallacy.

Thristan Thompson is over all a below average player in this leauge. There are actually two sides to the ball. He's not a good defender at all. Both defensive ws and 82games.com proves that his on/off court along with his opponents per. He got outplayed by his opponent.

The positive for Thompson however is that he is only 23, so he has room to grow.

[Wont PerDont]

the fact that we are even discussing a vet min signing by our biggest competition in the east means it is significant and a good thing for CLE. if it wasn't we would not have an 8 page thread about a team signing a vet min player. the fact is they got what they wanted and needed at a bargain price. and that's why it's 8 pages.

C'mon now...We had a thread on Greg freakin' Oden when Miami signed him. You should know better than that. Hell, we are 16 pgs into our current E'twuan Moore fixation. It doesn't mean he/they are any good.

[sisibilio]

I think Memphis could easily agree to a trade based on non guaranteed deals, Lucas, Thomas, Murphy, Kirk, and a 1st round pick for Koufos, Cleveland could end up with,…

Irving-Waiters-Dellavedova
James-Allen-Harris
Marion-Miller-Jones
Love-Thompson-Powell
Varejao-Koufos-Haywood

Don't know the Grizzlies situation too closely, but I would think Koufos is leverage for when Marc needs to be extended.

Koufos is a FA too, and he could get easily 5m/y type of offers, if Memphis wants to retain Gasol they won't be able to afford Koufos, getting a 1st round pick for a guy you will probably can't retain is a good deal.

Unless we are talking about the pick they sent to Cleveland in a previous trade i don't think they consider it. Koufos is a key player in their rotation, if they get rid of him they're 1 slightly serious injury of Gasol away from missing the playoffs.

[the ultimates]

Even with Marion Cleveland is still going to have problems defensively on the perimeter. Irving and Waiters have to make significant strides or they will struggle mightily. When Lebron's Heat lost in the finals they lost to teams with a plethora of outside shooters in the Mavs and Spurs. The Bulls have that now with Mirotic, McDermott, Dunleavy, Hinrich, and Brooks. That's not even counting Snell who I think will be better and Butler who isn't nearly as bad a three point shooter as people make him out to be because of last years rough shooting.

[mrmsix6]

If we're assuming Varejao is going to continue to pile up freak injuries, are we going to assume Rose is going to tear his ACL again?

Or are we only optimistic about the health of players on our own team?

Can one not point out questions of another team without someone shooting back with the high and mighty act?

Of course we have questions, the most serious being Derrick Rose, but that has no bearing at all on properly evaluating the Cavs.

High and mighty act? Please.

I'm sure when discussing the Bulls next season you assume Rose is good to miss 60 games as well, since that has been the case recently.

Assuming injuries either way is just dumb.

[DowJones]

Marion will see time at the 4 with LBJ at the 3 and Love at the 5. That is a devastating offensive team with Kyrie and Allen on the perimeter sniping from 3. I can't imagine the driving lanes LeBron and Kyrie would get. Chicago also doesn't have anyone except Rose that can take advantage of that lineup and LeBron can defend him in the 4th.

[kingkirk]

Marion will see time at the 4 with LBJ at the 3 and Love at the 5. That is a devastating offensive team with Kyrie and Allen on the perimeter sniping from 3. I can't imagine the driving lanes LeBron and Kyrie would get. Chicago also doesn't have anyone except Rose that can take advantage of that lineup and LeBron can defend him in the 4th.

That line up has no defense whatsoever.

The Cavs playing Love at the 5 spot within a 'go to' lineup is not a good idea.

Maybe it beats Chicago, but it ain't beating the West.

[GMgoran]

Marion will see time at the 4 with LBJ at the 3 and Love at the 5. That is a devastating offensive team with Kyrie and Allen on the perimeter sniping from 3. I can't imagine the driving lanes LeBron and Kyrie would get. Chicago also doesn't have anyone except Rose that can take advantage of that lineup and LeBron can defend him in the 4th.

Love defending Gasol at the center position ? Now, that would be interesting ...

[KING CB4]

Marion to Cavs is good for us. His greatest attribute these days is probably defense and I think he'll be wasted for the Cavs in guarding Jimmy Butler.

No it isn't.

[molepharmer]

.....The Cavs should be hunting for big men, and i would be trading Waiters right now for that guy.

Or trade Thompson. And then give whatever minutes were going to be his, to Marion. Even without Marion, it seemed TT's minutes were going to significantly drop from 30-ish to mid-teens with Love coming on board.

[legendO_Kiko]

lets think about this, how did the spurs win? not defense, they put on an offensive clinic. all you need for defense in the nba is effort, you throw in lebron and marion and yes they dont have a dominant defense, not even close. but is it good enough? i dont see why not.

the best defensive team in the league last year was chicago, howd that work out? indiana hung their hat on defense, again struggled mightily to score in the playoffs. okc plays pretty good defense, but even with tony parker out they couldnt beat san antonio.

im not saying defense isnt important but this isnt they bad boy piston era. with the way the rules are you have to be able to the offense gettin the benefit of the doubt

that being said i think the bulls are the favorite, but thats only because we havent seen the cavs play TOGETHER yet. either way its a 2 horse race tho

[Rerisen]

^ Average ranking of the last 20 title winners is higher on Defense than it is on Offense. Spurs were 3rd in defense btw, 7th on offense. They just ran a clinic on Miami's untenable scheme.

[Mr Loggins]

Marion will see time at the 4 with LBJ at the 3 and Love at the 5. That is a devastating offensive team with Kyrie and Allen on the perimeter sniping from 3. I can't imagine the driving lanes LeBron and Kyrie would get. Chicago also doesn't have anyone except Rose that can take advantage of that lineup and LeBron can defend him in the 4th.

Love defending Gasol at the center position ? Now, that would be interesting ...

What is chicago expecting out of Gasol this year? His efficiency has generally been dropping for several years now, so he'll be best used 20-25 mpg

[GMgoran]

Marion will see time at the 4 with LBJ at the 3 and Love at the 5. That is a devastating offensive team with Kyrie and Allen on the perimeter sniping from 3. I can't imagine the driving lanes LeBron and Kyrie would get. Chicago also doesn't have anyone except Rose that can take advantage of that lineup and LeBron can defend him in the 4th.

Love defending Gasol at the center position ? Now, that would be interesting ...

What is chicago expecting out of Gasol this year? His efficiency has generally been dropping for several years now, so he'll be best used 20-25 mpg

2011-12 / MPG = 37.4 / PER = 20.4 / TS% = .547
2012-13 / MPG = 33.8 / PER = 16.7 / TS% = .512
2013-14 / MPG = 31.4 / PER = 19.3 / TS% = .522

[legendO_Kiko]

^ Average ranking of the last 20 title winners is higher on Defense than it is on Offense. Spurs were 3rd in defense btw, 7th on offense. They just ran a clinic on Miami's untenable scheme.

so we can agree you dont need a dominant defense, you just ned to be able to get timely stops. and with lebron and now marion being able to switch and trap almost everything they suddenly get alot better in the fourth quarter defensively

[Mr Loggins]

Love defending Gasol at the center position ? Now, that would be interesting ...

What is chicago expecting out of Gasol this year? His efficiency has generally been dropping for several years now, so he'll be best used 20-25 mpg

2011-12 / MPG = 37.4 / PER = 20.4 / TS% = .547
2012-13 / MPG = 33.8 / PER = 16.7 / TS% = .512
2013-14 / MPG = 31.4 / PER = 19.3 / TS% = .522

2007-08/ TS% .594
2008-09/ TS% .617
2009-10/ TS% .593
2010-11/ TS% .589

so since 2007-2008 his slope is generally downward, and at age 34 you would probably expect that trend to continue.

[Rerisen]

so we can agree you dont need a dominant defense, you just ned to be able to get timely stops. and with lebron and now marion being able to switch and trap almost everything they suddenly get alot better in the fourth quarter defensively

Marion was a net negative player last year, not sure I'd want him on the floor at the end.

Only 2 teams have won a title outside the top 10 in defense. Top 10 seems pretty dominant to me.

[Future Coach]

I haven't read through the whole thread, but this was a good signing for the Cavs. Not only does it add versatility with Marion and Lebron on the court together, but it also allows Lebron to get rest while Marion fills in defensively and Love and Kyrie take over offensively. It is similar to the Battier signing in Miami in regards to the flexibility And depth it provides to their rotation. Yes Marion is not an all-star, but he is a solid player who has been signed to the minimum. They still need more interior depth defensively, but this was a great signing.

And if reports are correct, the Bulls dropped the ball big time by not speaking with him. Disappointed.

[DaeDae]

so we can agree you dont need a dominant defense, you just ned to be able to get timely stops. and with lebron and now marion being able to switch and trap almost everything they suddenly get alot better in the fourth quarter defensively

Marion was a net negative player last year, not sure I'd want him on the floor at the end.

Only 2 teams have won a title outside the top 10 in defense. Top 10 seems pretty dominant to me.

Add to that, nobody is going to involve the two of them in a P&R. They will attack Love/Verajao relentlessly with the PNR.

The only player on that roster who has ever had ANY success defending derrick rose in the PNR is Lebron, and

a) That was 4 years ago
b) He had a TON of help behind him. Help that he no longer has.
c) His back line is POUROUS now.
and
d) The other players on the team are all weak enough defensively that they can be attacked on their own.

WHEREVER Kevin Love is on the floor, he WILL be getting attacked in the PNR Over and OVER again.

[TheStig]

Even with Marion Cleveland is still going to have problems defensively on the perimeter. Irving and Waiters have to make significant strides or they will struggle mightily. When Lebron's Heat lost in the finals they lost to teams with a plethora of outside shooters in the Mavs and Spurs. The Bulls have that now with Mirotic, McDermott, Dunleavy, Hinrich, and Brooks. That's not even counting Snell who I think will be better and Butler who isn't nearly as bad a three point shooter as people make him out to be because of last years rough shooting.

I like the shooters and signings but you know Thibs isn't closing out the game with those guys. And Kirk isn't a shooter. We know the game will be closed out with Rose, Butler, MDJ/McD/Kirk, Gasol/Gibson, Noah. Add to the fact that Brooks and Mirotic are end of the bench guys this year and a lot of that shooting is neutralized. Our spacing and shooting will still be a bit cramped till Mirotic can be a serious rotation player and close out games and Butler learns he needs to take only corner 3's.