What if Rose is just average going forward?

[coldfish]

And let's be honest, when he was playing last year he was bad.

First 5 games:

34% from 2.
27% from 3.
4 APG.
5 TOV per game.



Last 5 games:

37.5% from 2.
40% from 3.
4.6 APG
1.8 TOV per game.




No denying he was improving.

I'm going to need you to stop posting factual stat's. This board needs the doom and gloom of a ten game sample size to say a player will never again be or be close to what he once was.

Has anyone said that?

[Mech Engineer]

Suns are shopping Bledsoe. Consolidation trade could be a savior in such a scenario.

This team is not well built if Rose isn't close to 100%. It's like they just assumed he would be.

Not another athletic PG who has a meniscus problem although not an ACL problem. Anyhow, it is not realistic for Bledsoe to be a Bull. If there is going to be another #1 PG, it is going to be after another 1 or 2 years and the realization that Rose is done as a main option.

Unless that kind of scenario happens, another PG like Bledsoe is not going to be a part of the Bulls, IMO. Rose definitely has better support than in 2011. If Rose is going to get injured, Bledsoe is not going to put the Bulls over the top either, IMO.

[2015nbachamps]

i completely disagree with just about everyone in this thread...i haven't checked, maybe this is the pro rose crowd mostly checked in...or the we need 3 guys on the court that can attack the rim off their own dribble crowd or maybe the mcderm and mirotic are going to be some version of a bust crowd and maybe all these 3 of these crowds are the same crowd but i could not disagree more.

This is a REALLY REALLY good basketball TEAM.

And when you have a great 6-7 basketball players we would almost be better off of Derrick Rose became a defensive force that could make 3pt shots at at least a 37% clip and pick his spots and be a 14ppg, 8 apg, 5 rpg, type player that mostly just runs the offense.

This team is so good that if one guy tries to do too much it takes away from the strength of the team overall. Unless, prime MJ, Lebron, maybe Kobe somehow time warp thier way onto this team we are better off with a team oriented derrick rose that takes way less shots, picks his spots, runs the offense, protects the ball, and make open 3 pointers to help maintain space for the rest of the team...

And if that derrick rose doesnt exist, never did or never will...if team rose is still going after more and more endorsement money and rose needs to push himself to playing over his capabilities, throwing up too much hero ball shots, well he will likely get hurt again and hurt our chances of winning. Derrick Rose himself addressed this notion to be more under control and pick his spots this summer and for the forst time he sounded like a guy that was maturing and understanding the TEAM GAME more and more which is why I am so bullish on the team winning it all...but if that's just talk...just a dog and pny show...thne we will never get the kind of chemistry it take to replicate what the Spurs have done, what the 80's celtics did, what the magic johnson almost did by himself for the 80's lakers.

And make no mistake, if mcderm can play the way he did in summer league then there is no question that we do have talent equal to or better than those great teams.

Noah (likely future hall of famer) perennial dpoy candidate, low end MVP candidate.
Gasol (likely first ballot future hall of famer) still in prime albeit the end.
Mcderm (paul pierce/ dirk nowitski lite type player based on summer league
Butler (best wing defender in the league?--used to make 3pt shots at 37-42% depending on how tired his legs are-should be able to get more rest this year.
Rose (youngest mvp ever-just needs to tone down his game and his in game effort and circus shot attempts to keep the wear and tear low on the knees.

Taj-stud 6th man

Mirotic could also be a stud stetch 4

Dunleavy, hinrich, brooks, even snell and bairstow all look like great quality depth and back up.

If...IF Rose is done...we dont need an MVP candidate to replace him...we need a guy that will run the offense...play defense and can make a tough shot every now and then...bledsoe? Dragic? Given the talent on the rest of the roster...I think mature yet still very good PG's will try very hard to come here and take his spot...and we have the depth and picks to make a great trade for us...so im still seeing championship contention...With Rose and without rose.

[dougthonus]

Bah, screw the 3 years. Blow it up and capitalize on these assets, especially Noah and Taj.

Though, it would never actually happen. Too much money to be added to the coffers being average.

Let's say there's only a 5% chance Rose is a superstar, and a 95% chance he isn't. You're still better off rolling the dice on that 5% shot and going for it now because you'd have a legit shot to win the title if he is.

There's no magical way to rebuild, the far most likely scenario is that we'd trade everyone get young assets, and then three years later have those assets mature into good players and still be in a lower percentage chance to win than we are right now.

[the ultimates]

First 5 games:

34% from 2.
27% from 3.
4 APG.
5 TOV per game.



Last 5 games:

37.5% from 2.
40% from 3.
4.6 APG
1.8 TOV per game.




No denying he was improving.

I'm going to need you to stop posting factual stat's. This board needs the doom and gloom of a ten game sample size to say a player will never again be or be close to what he once was.

Has anyone said that?

Have you not seen the posts in the various threads over these many months that have used that ten game sample as gospel because I have.

[Mech Engineer]

Bah, screw the 3 years. Blow it up and capitalize on these assets, especially Noah and Taj.

Though, it would never actually happen. Too much money to be added to the coffers being average.

Let's say there's only a 5% chance Rose is a superstar, and a 95% chance he isn't. You're still better off rolling the dice on that 5% shot and going for it now because you'd have a legit shot to win the title if he is.

There's no magical way to rebuild, the far most likely scenario is that we'd trade everyone get young assets, and then three years later have those assets mature into good players and still be in a lower percentage chance to win than we are right now.

I agree with Doug. There is no magical way to rebuild. If the Bulls have had problems attracting another star even when having Derrick Rose(healthy in 2010, recovering in 2014), there is no way there are getting another superstar(#1 option) without a good team or Derrick.

Look at this year's Miami...all they got was Luol Deng to come and join a good player like Bosh when they have South Beach and Pat Riley.

The Bulls have to keep milking Derrick until he reaches a Gilbert Arenas/Grant Hill/Penny Hardaway levels. He is far away from those levels and the Bulls have to maximize/strategize every Derrick's healthy year as the last one rather than plan for five years from now.

The trick is the balancing act between being a LeBron(carry the team) or Wade from last year(take off a lot). Both scenarios have a chance to succeed with Rose's skills if used correctly.

[coldfish]

I'm going to need you to stop posting factual stat's. This board needs the doom and gloom of a ten game sample size to say a player will never again be or be close to what he once was.

Has anyone said that?

Have you not seen the posts in the various threads over these many months that have used that ten game sample as gospel because I have.

I haven't seen one person say that the rose of last year is all we will get. Must have missed them.

[the ultimates]

Has anyone said that?

Have you not seen the posts in the various threads over these many months that have used that ten game sample as gospel because I have.

I haven't seen one person say that the rose of last year is all we will get. Must have missed them.

Then you really haven't been paying attention. Their have been ton of threads asking essentially the same question of how good will Rose be just worded slightly differently. Many of the same people who say that he'll never be anything close to what he once was cite these ten games.

[PrimzyBulls81]

The biggest concern is ,if he can stay healthy.. If he can play,he will be really good.

[dougthonus]

Then you really haven't been paying attention. Their have been ton of threads asking essentially the same question of how good will Rose be just worded slightly differently. Many of the same people who say that he'll never be anything close to what he once was cite these ten games.

Many people say the 10 games prove he'll be a superstar again, and the talent isn't a question, only whether he can stay healthy.

Looking at the status above in this thread, that's clearly not the case. He stunk in those 10 games.

However, if it isn't explicitly stated, there is no proof over what Derrick will do. There is only opinion based on various objective and subjective data points.

If someone wants to say Rose won't be good and uses as evidence the following:
1: He wasn't good in his 10 games back
2: Effectively no one misses two years and comes back to play well, I can't think of any counter example at all really.

Well, there's something to be said for that set of evidence.

If someone wants to counter with:
1: He looked athletic but just rusty in those 10 games, and with more time likely would have improved
2: The sample size of quality players who've missed two years under similar circumstances is so small it's not that relevant

Well, I could get that too.

[Axl Rose]

then we're stuck on the treadmill until 2017 when his contract comes off the books

[the ultimates]

Then you really haven't been paying attention. Their have been ton of threads asking essentially the same question of how good will Rose be just worded slightly differently. Many of the same people who say that he'll never be anything close to what he once was cite these ten games.

Many people say the 10 games prove he'll be a superstar again, and the talent isn't a question, only whether he can stay healthy.

Looking at the status above in this thread, that's clearly not the case. He stunk in those 10 games.

However, if it isn't explicitly stated, there is no proof over what Derrick will do. There is only opinion based on various objective and subjective data points.

If someone wants to say Rose won't be good and uses as evidence the following:
1: He wasn't good in his 10 games back
2: Effectively no one misses two years and comes back to play well, I can't think of any counter example at all really.

Well, there's something to be said for that set of evidence.

If someone wants to counter with:
1: He looked athletic but just rusty in those 10 games, and with more time likely would have improved
2: The sample size of quality players who've missed two years under similar circumstances is so small it's not that relevant

Well, I could get that too.

Nobody was using those ten games to say he'll be a superstar again. Many people like myself said it proved he still had his elite athleticism. Everybody acknowledged rust. People confused rust with lack of physical skills. Just because he had a lot of time off doesn't mean he forgot how to play.

[dougthonus]

Nobody was using those ten games to say he'll be a superstar again. Many people like myself said it proved he still had his elite athleticism. Everybody acknowledged rust. People confused rust with lack of physical skills. Just because he had a lot of time off doesn't mean he forgot how to play.

I don't think those 10 games proved he had elite athleticism still. He couldn't move side to side to get around anyone. That's a physical skill separate from the fact that he was rusty. He appeared to draw way more charges than you'd expect because he kept running guys over who got to the spot before him rather than adjusting to get around them. However, like I said, it's all subjective.

[jl342323]

he missed alot of layups that he used to make routinely in the past.
This can be attributed to rust or it was because he lost at least a half step.

CP3 was never the same after he had his knee surgery.

All im saying is dont get your hopes up.

[BeatDaCavs420]

Average?

Rose has already shown he is back to form.

O my

[the ultimates]

Nobody was using those ten games to say he'll be a superstar again. Many people like myself said it proved he still had his elite athleticism. Everybody acknowledged rust. People confused rust with lack of physical skills. Just because he had a lot of time off doesn't mean he forgot how to play.

I don't think those 10 games proved he had elite athleticism still. He couldn't move side to side to get around anyone. That's a physical skill separate from the fact that he was rusty. He appeared to draw way more charges than you'd expect because he kept running guys over who got to the spot before him rather than adjusting to get around them. However, like I said, it's all subjective.

We must have been watching different games because I didn't see anybody stopping him from getting in the lane. He shut Irving down when people were making the same argument you are now about his lateral quickness not being their. Yes he did have more charges because he was clearly pressing trying to do too much not because he couldn't get to where he wanted to.

[TheCly]

If by "average" you mean just an "average MVP", I'll take it.

[Ring_Me]

one thing's for sure, he'll never be MVP again.

Are you a Bulls fan? Most of the post I read from you are very negative.

[TruthSerum]

If being MVP of the league is just like riding a bike then no worries... if not, then I guess we wait...

Personally, I truly believe DRose will return in health and skill but not this year. He'll be more than suitable to make us a contender again, though.

[musiqsoulchild]

Good thing about Rose is that he will never be average.

He is either near MVP or injury DNP.

If health holds out, we are all good.