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OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED

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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#321 » by DuckIII » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:29 pm

errisal wrote:
bullsRlife wrote:The story is big because........there's a video of an NFL sized man viciously punching out his GF in an elevator, then dragging her out, and not even dragging her all the way out. The moron leaves her in the middle of the doorway.


It's not just what happened in the elevator. It's also because who's involved. That's why Dwyer, McDonald, Hardy and ridiculously Brandon Marshall all have been dragged into the conversation. Every other name thrown in the debate over the past week, both current and past have all been black players. Not one past instance of domestic violence by a white player has been thrown in the mix, why is that. Once again, I'm not defending the violence by these idiots, I'm disgusted how it seems everyone is making this a black athlete issue with the white commissioner being held responsible for his stable.


I don't know about Brandon Marshall, but aren't those other three just guys who have all been accused of domestic abuse this season? McDonald and Dwyer are post-Rice for crying out loud. This had already become a hot button issue. Do you honestly believe if one of those post-Rice guys was Jordy Nelson it wouldn't be a story?

The real public outcry here is the perception that the NFL has never taken this issue seriously. What I see being discussed about the past is how lightly the NFL punished domestic abusers leading up to Rice being caught on video. The majority of them listed under Goodell's watch, are black. No one said anything about it until Rice was caught on video. Its the video that did it, not his skin color. Or maybe its a combination of both. I don't know. But historically speaking, no one cared about this issue until it was caught on tape. So that seems logically to be the driving factor.

And it just so happens that the guys who have been tagged since that video came out, are also black. Statistically speaking, that's not so hard to believe anyway, given hat 67% of NFL players are black.

Regardless, white NFL players have been demonized as well. It actually WAS a big deal when Big Ben was being investigated. Last year's villain was Richie Incognito. The year before that it was coach Greg Williams.
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#322 » by Polynice4Pippen » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:24 pm

errisal wrote:
bullsRlife wrote:The story is big because........there's a video of an NFL sized man viciously punching out his GF in an elevator, then dragging her out, and not even dragging her all the way out. The moron leaves her in the middle of the doorway.


It's not just what happened in the elevator. It's also because who's involved. That's why Dwyer, McDonald, Hardy and ridiculously Brandon Marshall all have been dragged into the conversation. Every other name thrown in the debate over the past week, both current and past have all been black players. Not one past instance of domestic violence by a white player has been thrown in the mix, why is that. Once again, I'm not defending the violence by these idiots, I'm disgusted how it seems everyone is making this a black athlete issue with the white commissioner being held responsible for his stable.


I honestly haven't heard anyone making this a black athlete issue until your comments. I haven't seen a single report or blog of any relevance go with that narrative. Not one. You're either projecting here or wildly missing the point. If it bothers you seeing black athletes in a negative light then go out and trumpet all the black NFL players out here doing the right thing as opposed to making over the top allegations. Sing the praises of Matt Forte's character, Alshon Jeffrey's toughness and professionalism, Peanut Tillman's charitable acts, Lance Briggs' business ventures with his new restaurant. But don't act like you don't know why Rice and Peterson and Hardy and McDonald and Dwyer are pariahs right now. It's insulting.

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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#323 » by fleet » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:56 pm

errisal wrote:
fleet wrote:The story is big because of 2 reasons. The biggest being the paltry suspension at first. The second, is video. Or vice versa, video being a sensational garnish. No it isnt a vendetta against blacks in the NFL. I hate to indulge the argument of one race baiter, but its really quite simple. Not if you have an agenda to push though. Then it gets complicated by paranoia.

EDIT: Not that blacks dont receive unfair treatment in a lot of areas. However, crying wolf isnt helping the cause.


*official warning for TOS violation*

As for Ray Rice, he got what he asked for and I never said otherwise.

Probably because he knew he was going to be off with a slap on the wrist

What I've been saying is that the hold story is being told one sided and with malice. Ray Rice did not BEAT his wife. He knocked her out with one punch. Being punched once and being beaten are two totally different aspects. When you beat someone you attack them viciously and you hit them repeatedly.

People tend to hate men who punch women. There, I used your personally acceptable nomenclature. Somehow, does not sound any better.

I dont know what you said that elicited the warning errisal. Perhaps I did go too far with the labeling. But you are taking things down a personal agenda path which seems to have no priority within the context of the news story. And the racial accusations are disturbing. I dont doubt some people have issue with black men getting in trouble. But injecting that into something of a straightforward domestic abuse case, you are getting ridiculous.
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#324 » by fleet » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:04 pm

I would like to make errisal feel better. White liberals (and conservatives, I think should have been noted but for the agenda) are coming to the defense of a black woman, who has not been deemed unimportant as per usual. Should make a black man feel good.


Ok, this thread is about to go so far off the rails with me taking the bait, that one could call me baby Obama with the POTUS taking the country to war after being baited with shock videos.
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#325 » by bullsRlife » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:28 pm

errisal wrote:
bullsRlife wrote:The story is big because........there's a video of an NFL sized man viciously punching out his GF in an elevator, then dragging her out, and not even dragging her all the way out. The moron leaves her in the middle of the doorway.


It's not just what happened in the elevator. It's also because who's involved. That's why Dwyer, McDonald, Hardy and ridiculously Brandon Marshall all have been dragged into the conversation. Every other name thrown in the debate over the past week, both current and past have all been black players. Not one past instance of domestic violence by a white player has been thrown in the mix, why is that. Once again, I'm not defending the violence by these idiots, I'm disgusted how it seems everyone is making this a black athlete issue with the white commissioner being held responsible for his stable.


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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#326 » by errisal » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:06 am

fleet wrote:
errisal wrote:
fleet wrote:The story is big because of 2 reasons. The biggest being the paltry suspension at first. The second, is video. Or vice versa, video being a sensational garnish. No it isnt a vendetta against blacks in the NFL. I hate to indulge the argument of one race baiter, but its really quite simple. Not if you have an agenda to push though. Then it gets complicated by paranoia.

EDIT: Not that blacks dont receive unfair treatment in a lot of areas. However, crying wolf isnt helping the cause.


*official warning for TOS violation*

As for Ray Rice, he got what he asked for and I never said otherwise.

Probably because he knew he was going to be off with a slap on the wrist

What I've been saying is that the hold story is being told one sided and with malice. Ray Rice did not BEAT his wife. He knocked her out with one punch. Being punched once and being beaten are two totally different aspects. When you beat someone you attack them viciously and you hit them repeatedly.


People tend to hate men who punch women. There, I used your personally acceptable nomenclature. Somehow, does not sound any better.

I dont know what you said that elicited the warning errisal. Perhaps I did go too far with the labeling. But you are taking things down a personal agenda path which seems to have no priority within the context of the news story. And the racial accusations are disturbing. I dont doubt some people have issue with black men getting in trouble. But injecting that into something of a straightforward domestic abuse case, you are getting ridiculous.


I said nothing that elicited a warning, imo. And yes you went to far in the labeling, but you are a mod so you are allowed to do as you want. And it is a personal agenda because when I listen to talk radio and go on boards here the same general thoughts are put out there. For one I have a huge issue with the underlying thought that the viciousness of the act came about because he was black. Now I'm not saying that is what's being said by everyone here but that is the sense I've gotten. The statement that you made is first thing you think of when it comes to a white guy is some botbelly trailor trash with a wife beater. The worst thing about this situation as a whole is that there is now this perception that just because a man is has an athletic build to him that he should never be allowed to protect himself. Ray Rice had absolutely no right to knock her out but that doesn't mean No woman can be touched. This whole notion that a man should never hit a woman is bullpucky. I've seen women put men to their knees physically. I've seen men put in caskets by the actions of violent women. So it really gets at me when people want to push this notion that women are absolved when it comes to domestic violence. That is the reason I'm not so ready to totally condemn Ray Rice because we don't know what possible violence he's suffered at her hands behind closed doors. Can any of you guys seriously state that there is absolutely no reason a man should put his hands on a woman? And before you answer know that there are times you aren't allowed to just walk away.
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#327 » by Polynice4Pippen » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:18 am

errisal wrote:That is the reason I'm not so ready to totally condemn Ray Rice because we don't know what possible violence he's suffered at her hands behind closed doors.


:lol: This is just silly now.

Being upset about racial undertones and stereotypes being expressed on talk radio and message boards (which I'd advise you to simply stay away from if it bothers you that much, you don't have to subject yourself to constant hate and ignorance, you know) is one thing. Trying to justify a cut and dry case of a man overreacting and knocking his wife out cold when she didn't once violently strike him or pose any threat whatsoever to him is embarrassing. You really need to drop this, it's absurd beyond belief.

If a woman is wailing away on a man (which CLEARLY wasn't the case with Ray Rice and his fiance) then you can understand a man striking her back. That didn't happen though so I have no idea what your argument is in the defense of Ray Rice.
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#328 » by fleet » Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:19 am

errisal wrote:
fleet wrote:
errisal wrote:
*official warning for TOS violation*

As for Ray Rice, he got what he asked for and I never said otherwise.

Probably because he knew he was going to be off with a slap on the wrist

What I've been saying is that the hold story is being told one sided and with malice. Ray Rice did not BEAT his wife. He knocked her out with one punch. Being punched once and being beaten are two totally different aspects. When you beat someone you attack them viciously and you hit them repeatedly.


People tend to hate men who punch women. There, I used your personally acceptable nomenclature. Somehow, does not sound any better.

I dont know what you said that elicited the warning errisal. Perhaps I did go too far with the labeling. But you are taking things down a personal agenda path which seems to have no priority within the context of the news story. And the racial accusations are disturbing. I dont doubt some people have issue with black men getting in trouble. But injecting that into something of a straightforward domestic abuse case, you are getting ridiculous.


I said nothing that elicited a warning, imo. And yes you went to far in the labeling, but you are a mod so you are allowed to do as you want. And it is a personal agenda because when I listen to talk radio and go on boards here the same general thoughts are put out there. For one I have a huge issue with the underlying thought that the viciousness of the act came about because he was black. Now I'm not saying that is what's being said by everyone here but that is the sense I've gotten. The statement that you made is first thing you think of when it comes to a white guy is some botbelly trailor trash with a wife beater. The worst thing about this situation as a whole is that there is now this perception that just because a man is has an athletic build to him that he should never be allowed to protect himself. Ray Rice had absolutely no right to knock her out but that doesn't mean No woman can be touched. This whole notion that a man should never hit a woman is bullpucky. I've seen women put men to their knees physically. I've seen men put in caskets by the actions of violent women. So it really gets at me when people want to push this notion that women are absolved when it comes to domestic violence. That is the reason I'm not so ready to totally condemn Ray Rice because we don't know what possible violence he's suffered at her hands behind closed doors. Can any of you guys seriously state that there is absolutely no reason a man should put his hands on a woman? And before you answer know that there are times you aren't allowed to just walk away.

I'll accept my share of blame for the tone of conversation. No I cannot do what I want any more than anybody else. The repercussions may be behind closed doors by the other blue guys who as you know have no problem telling anybody they are out of pocket. I've been dressed down before and I am sure will be again knowing me. And certainly, anybody else on the board can do the same. We are all answerable to each other on this board.

In short, your self defense take on the incident is something I actually favored in the beginning, and am still unsure about. They seem on the surface like a couple that is used to physical expressions of anger. Im dropping that because I simply dont know, and all I have to go on is this one thing. Continuing this line of argument, I have decided, was unfair speculation on my part, and inbuing the conversation with personal bias from my own family experiences seeing some of this kind of mutual combat. I dont know anything about you other than seeing that picture of you, and also what you have recounted seeing yourself. You are doing the same thing I was doing, and it is just not fair to do.
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#329 » by dice » Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:35 am

errisal wrote:For one I have a huge issue with the underlying thought that the viciousness of the act came about because he was black

nobody has expressed that until you came along. it had not even crossed my mind that race was a factor here before you brought it into the discussion

The worst thing about this situation as a whole is that there is now this perception that just because a man is has an athletic build to him that he should never be allowed to protect himself

no there isn't. i have no idea where you pulled that from

So it really gets at me when people want to push this notion that women are absolved when it comes to domestic violence. That is the reason I'm not so ready to totally condemn Ray Rice because we don't know what possible violence he's suffered at her hands behind closed doors

anything that happened to him privately beforehand (of which there is absolutely no reason to speculate about) is totally irrelevant to what occurred in that elevator

Can any of you guys seriously state that there is absolutely no reason a man should put his hands on a woman?

very rarely. this was not one of those occasions. not even close
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#330 » by fleet » Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:45 am

dice wrote:
errisal wrote:For one I have a huge issue with the underlying thought that the viciousness of the act came about because he was black

nobody has expressed that until you came along. it had not even crossed my mind

Indeed. Bloody hell.
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#331 » by kingkirk » Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:37 am

errisal wrote:That is the reason I'm not so ready to totally condemn Ray Rice because we don't know what possible violence he's suffered at her hands behind closed doors.


Tbh, i am not sure how Ray Rice has suffered from years of abuse from his female partner, to now suffering a breadth of pain and embarrassment publicly due to his skin colour from oppressive white males.

It would seem, it's the world against Rice. Poor guy.
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#332 » by MAQ » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:57 pm

What errisal's doing sucks....That's why the race card gets called the race card...Cuz people such as himself like to use it in totally inappropriate times.
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#333 » by GetBuLLish » Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:18 pm

MAQ wrote:What errisal's doing sucks.


You mean trolling?
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#334 » by Mech Engineer » Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:26 pm

KingCuban wrote:
errisal wrote:That is the reason I'm not so ready to totally condemn Ray Rice because we don't know what possible violence he's suffered at her hands behind closed doors.


Tbh, i am not sure how Ray Rice has suffered from years of abuse from his female partner, to now suffering a breadth of pain and embarrassment publicly due to his skin colour from oppressive white males.

It would seem, it's the world against Rice. Poor guy.


The sad part here is if you bring in race...it is usually a black woman who is suffering. These guys(NFL guys) are taking their aggression on these woman because they do not have the patience to co-exist or respect their opinions/issues. It feels like they want a 15th century woman to be their partner because they are the ones getting the money.

More than these posts, the problem is a lot of these players might have the same mentality and cannot handle a simple conflict with their partners leading to abuse, more aggression.
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#335 » by kingkirk » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:07 pm

Mech Engineer wrote:The sad part here is if you bring in race...it is usually a black woman who is suffering. These guys(NFL guys) are taking their aggression on these woman because they do not have the patience to co-exist or respect their opinions/issues. It feels like they want a 15th century woman to be their partner because they are the ones getting the money.

More than these posts, the problem is a lot of these players might have the same mentality and cannot handle a simple conflict with their partners leading to abuse, more aggression.


Maybe i am coming from a different angle, but for me, this is all about money.

For Goodell and the NFL, they don't want their name run through this crap and tarnishing their brand as the new season begins. It could cost them sponsorships and other endorsement deals. It won't hurt them long term, but he would have a year on year target in terms of organic growth of the game. Stuff like this doesn't help.

For Harbough and the Ravens, they lose one of their better players, sponsors, merch sales and potential air time. It's not good business for them to have one of their guys getting owned like this.

For Ray himself, obviously, he stands to lose a ton of money in future earnings.

The cost of this for all parties involved was great. You obviously have other issues involved, like domestic violence and the treatment of women in a male dominated arena, but i don't think that has ever been the root of the issue. I don't think the actions of everyone involved have been executed on the basis that they want their women to be taking a back seat in all aspects of life.

For me, it's about the coin.
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#336 » by 2015nbachamps » Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:48 am

i think the public outrage would have been 10 million times worse if ti were a white male and white female involved. I dont think a white male could even dream about playing another down in the NFL or and front office job or anything if he is caught on film in the exact same manner ray rice was.

ben rothlisberger was brought up...if there was film on ben and he was guilty of what the women said...he would have been done. Done!

Once again, i will bring it up...cameras, cameras, cameras!! protect yourselves sooner than later...women will threaten you with false claims and ladies...bad men will take advantage of you...if you are single or newly married get yourself cameras. if your marriage is "rocky" get yourself cameras...

I have a friend that is a divorce attorney...i cant even fathom some of the stuff ive heard some of his clients blatantly make up about their spouses to get sole custody and theirfore get out of child support or to receive child support.

if you have nothing to lose...dont worry..no one wants your nothing...but if you have anything at all get cameras...and meet new people in public places that have cameras.

You know, i was at a party at a friend of a friends this weekend...cameras everywhere. the camera is the thing that in this case did ray rice in...but if you are a good person the camera will be the thing to protect you.
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#337 » by dice » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:32 pm

apparently adam silver is reviewing the current nba policy of a 10 game suspension for domestic abuse CONVICTION

ironically, that is the equivalent of a 2 game nfl suspension
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#338 » by kyrv » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:12 pm

dice wrote:apparently adam silver is reviewing the current nba policy of a 10 game suspension for domestic abuse CONVICTION

ironically, that is the equivalent of a 2 game nfl suspension


Yes that setup might not fly in the current climate.
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#339 » by 2015nbachamps » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:05 am

kyrv wrote:
dice wrote:apparently adam silver is reviewing the current nba policy of a 10 game suspension for domestic abuse CONVICTION

ironically, that is the equivalent of a 2 game nfl suspension


Yes that setup might not fly in the current climate.



hopefully it will be a full season...

i do not see the difference between domestic violence and any other kind of violence...i hope it becomes a minimum 1year suspension without pay plus returning any prorated signing bonus. Bonus money should stay in escrow pro-rated and paid out per season.

Child abuse or neglect including not paying child support? 1 year suspension.

Domestic violence? 1 year

any type of violence (assauly and battery) what so ever conducted out in public...push a guy through a window? Punch a guy in a bar? any thing like that at all gets 1 year suspension. If a member of your security detail does the same at your orders? same 1 year suspension.

2nd offense? and you are out of the league.
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Re: OT: TMZ releases Ray Rice video -MERGED 

Post#340 » by kyrv » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:00 pm

KingCuban wrote:
Mech Engineer wrote:The sad part here is if you bring in race...it is usually a black woman who is suffering. These guys(NFL guys) are taking their aggression on these woman because they do not have the patience to co-exist or respect their opinions/issues. It feels like they want a 15th century woman to be their partner because they are the ones getting the money.

More than these posts, the problem is a lot of these players might have the same mentality and cannot handle a simple conflict with their partners leading to abuse, more aggression.


Maybe i am coming from a different angle, but for me, this is all about money.

For Goodell and the NFL, they don't want their name run through this crap and tarnishing their brand as the new season begins. It could cost them sponsorships and other endorsement deals. It won't hurt them long term, but he would have a year on year target in terms of organic growth of the game. Stuff like this doesn't help.

For Harbough and the Ravens, they lose one of their better players, sponsors, merch sales and potential air time. It's not good business for them to have one of their guys getting owned like this.

For Ray himself, obviously, he stands to lose a ton of money in future earnings.

The cost of this for all parties involved was great. You obviously have other issues involved, like domestic violence and the treatment of women in a male dominated arena, but i don't think that has ever been the root of the issue. I don't think the actions of everyone involved have been executed on the basis that they want their women to be taking a back seat in all aspects of life.

For me, it's about the coin.


Yep the Ravens took a PR bath and lost coin. I had not realized how big Rice was in Baltimore.

As I said, Goodell can't be involved in discipline from here on out. He has a long track record of playing favorites. Asking his buddies to oversee an independent investigation is priceless.

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