Will Derrick rose ever be back to MVP Form

[Keller61]

Why pull numbers out of your behind? Rose has never shot 35% on 3's, not even for one full season, let alone his career. Rose is a poor 3 point shooter, him taking a 3 point shot is often a bailout for the defense. The problem is that he doesn't have the IQ to distinguish between a good and a bad 3 point shot.

When you discount 30+ foot shots at the end of quarters, Rose is a career 33.5% 3-point shooter, including 35.6% in his MVP season (a season in which he shot way more last-second heaves than anyone else).

It's true.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... rder_by=fg
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... der_by=fga

[RebuildaBulls]

I think Rose can play MVP level but can his knees keep up with that is the question. But I agree Bulls don't need him to play MVP level to be successful, but he needs to play at all-star level

[mj234eva]

When you discount 30+ foot shots at the end of quarters, Rose is a career 33.5% 3-point shooter, including 35.6% in his MVP season (a season in which he shot way more last-second heaves than anyone else).

Spoiler:

It's true.

And the thing is, even shooting from 30 feet isn't the norm (obviously). Hell, even 27 feet isn't. Remember that 3 pointer Korver shot in Bosh's face, in OT back in 2012? See the pic below...

This is 27 feet:

1:02.0 86-96 +3 K. Korver makes 3-pt shot from 27 ft

Rarely do NBA players shoot from that range. If they are, generally, we're talking about bail out shots.

[BahamaBull]

I don't think he will ever reach that mvp level again...But he can still be very good. All in for DRose!

[errisal]

If by the playoffs he's not pretty much there, I'm not too sure. I'd hope by the playoffs, he'd be an automatic 19 and 6 on good efficiency. Next year is when we'll know if he's still a superstar.

Nope. People around the league now know who he is and he's not going to win another popularity contest. Plus, his game hasn't evolved since his rookie year and it won't evolve into something that fights against his lack of popularity. DRose will be a slightly above average player in this league for a long time. His abilities will be that of a more athletic (name any point guard past or present without a jumper) that became a perennial journeyman.

[vxmike]

Can anyone name a superstar who missed essentially two entire seasons with lower extremity injuries who returned near the original level of play? I can't think of any.

I just don't think it's realistic to expect much after these injuries from a guy who is 90% reliant on athletic superiority. I mean the guy clearly didn't even work on his jumper as evidenced by the FIBA outing.

[Keller61]

Can anyone name a superstar who missed essentially two entire seasons with lower extremity injuries who returned near the original level of play? I can't think of any.

I just don't think it's realistic to expect much after these injuries from a guy who is 90% reliant on athletic superiority. I mean the guy clearly didn't even work on his jumper as evidenced by the FIBA outing.

How about this guy?



I think the time off is more relevant than the injuries, since Rose appears to be 100% recovered and these injuries aren't chronic.

And Rose clearly did work on his jumper, as evidenced by all the videos of him working on his jumper.

[kulaz3000]

Can anyone name a superstar who missed essentially two entire seasons with lower extremity injuries who returned near the original level of play? I can't think of any.

I just don't think it's realistic to expect much after these injuries from a guy who is 90% reliant on athletic superiority. I mean the guy clearly didn't even work on his jumper as evidenced by the FIBA outing.

Benard King went down with a a major knee injury after averaging 33 points per game at the peak of his career, at the age of 28. He missed the entire following season, and then returned to averaged close to 23 points per in a handful of games.

He wasn't ever as explosive, but even after the knee injury during a generation where surgery wasn't as advanced, he still managed to be a solid scorer, and even averaged 28 points per game again at age 34.

So I don't think it's fair to expect Derrick to return to top form right away, or even during the entire season this upcoming season, but i don't think it would be impossible to imagine that he could eventually get to his peak form, or even better at some point down the line. Remember also, Derrick is only 25.

[Keller61]

If by the playoffs he's not pretty much there, I'm not too sure. I'd hope by the playoffs, he'd be an automatic 19 and 6 on good efficiency. Next year is when we'll know if he's still a superstar.

Nope. People around the league now know who he is and he's not going to win another popularity contest. Plus, his game hasn't evolved since his rookie year and it won't evolve into something that fights against his lack of popularity. DRose will be a slightly above average player in this league for a long time. His abilities will be that of a more athletic (name any point guard past or present without a jumper) that became a perennial journeyman.

I would say that Rose's improvements in the midrange in year 2, the 3-pointer and foul-drawing in year 3, and court vision and the pick and roll game in year 4 represent pretty significant developments in his game (just to name a few), not to mention his vast improvement on defense.

I see very little chance that Rose will be a "slightly above average player" in the long run. He will either be elite or injury-riddled.

[ReturnofMVP3]

Serious question I'm considering to draft rose with the 43 pick in the Off topic board draft but I'm not sure. Would you take him over Jabari Parker (i thought he'd be a good pick since he'd get free reign in Milwaukee)

[Hallstar]

Spoiler:

It's true.

And the thing is, even shooting from 30 feet isn't the norm (obviously). Hell, even 27 feet isn't. Remember that 3 pointer Korver shot in Bosh's face, in OT back in 2012? See the pic below...

This is 27 feet:

1:02.0 86-96 +3 K. Korver makes 3-pt shot from 27 ft

Rarely do NBA players shoot from that range. If they are, generally, we're talking about bail out shots.

That's not 27 feet, scorers just give a rough guess. The top of the key is ~24ft. that's at least another 6 - 7 feet.

[mj234eva]

It's true.

And the thing is, even shooting from 30 feet isn't the norm (obviously). Hell, even 27 feet isn't. Remember that 3 pointer Korver shot in Bosh's face, in OT back in 2012? See the pic below...

This is 27 feet:

1:02.0 86-96 +3 K. Korver makes 3-pt shot from 27 ft

Rarely do NBA players shoot from that range. If they are, generally, we're talking about bail out shots.

That's not 27 feet, scorers just give a rough guess. The top of the key is ~24ft. that's at least another 6 - 7 feet.

And what you did was a guess as well. As it does not look to be 6-7 feet from the 3 point line to me.

[poolshark52]

And the thing is, even shooting from 30 feet isn't the norm (obviously). Hell, even 27 feet isn't. Remember that 3 pointer Korver shot in Bosh's face, in OT back in 2012? See the pic below...

This is 27 feet:


Rarely do NBA players shoot from that range. If they are, generally, we're talking about bail out shots.

That's not 27 feet, scorers just give a rough guess. The top of the key is ~24ft. that's at least another 6 - 7 feet.

And what you did was a guess as well. As it does not look to be 6-7 feet from the 3 point line to me.

But it clearly does! Look where Korver is. He could easily lay down and still not be touching the 3 point line, and he is 6 and a half feet.

[mj234eva]

That's not 27 feet, scorers just give a rough guess. The top of the key is ~24ft. that's at least another 6 - 7 feet.

And what you did was a guess as well. As it does not look to be 6-7 feet from the 3 point line to me.

But it clearly does! Look where Korver is. He could easily lay down and still not be touching the 3 point line, and he is 6 and a half feet.

But it clearly doesn't, to me.

[TheSuzerain]

lol that is obviously 6 feet beyond the line.

What do you think the width of Bosh's stance is? Like 18 inches?

[sco]

Serious question I'm considering to draft rose with the 43 pick in the Off topic board draft but I'm not sure. Would you take him over Jabari Parker (i thought he'd be a good pick since he'd get free reign in Milwaukee)

I'll start with that this thread should be about reality not fantasy. But to answer your question, I'd take Parker 10 times out of 10 over Rose this year, and I hate rookies. Rose will be better in reality than fantasy. His %'s and TO's will be really bad for 1/2 the season at least.

[coldfish]

Can anyone name a superstar who missed essentially two entire seasons with lower extremity injuries who returned near the original level of play? I can't think of any.

I just don't think it's realistic to expect much after these injuries from a guy who is 90% reliant on athletic superiority. I mean the guy clearly didn't even work on his jumper as evidenced by the FIBA outing.

How about this guy?



I think the time off is more relevant than the injuries, since Rose appears to be 100% recovered and these injuries aren't chronic.

And Rose clearly did work on his jumper, as evidenced by all the videos of him working on his jumper.

Obviously Jordan didn't miss time due to injury.

Beyond that, let's not proclaim Rose as 100% physically. He didn't look like he had his old lift in Fiba. Maybe it was conditioning but several times he came into the lane and elevated and didn't look at all like the old Derrick Rose.

If Rose returns to MVP level as an athleticism dependent guard after two years off due to knee injuries, he will be the first guy to do it. The best thing we can say is that there really isn't much of a sample size to compare it to. Its not like there are many MVP level players that missed back to back years in their early 20's.

[Keller61]

Can anyone name a superstar who missed essentially two entire seasons with lower extremity injuries who returned near the original level of play? I can't think of any.

I just don't think it's realistic to expect much after these injuries from a guy who is 90% reliant on athletic superiority. I mean the guy clearly didn't even work on his jumper as evidenced by the FIBA outing.

How about this guy?



I think the time off is more relevant than the injuries, since Rose appears to be 100% recovered and these injuries aren't chronic.

And Rose clearly did work on his jumper, as evidenced by all the videos of him working on his jumper.

Obviously Jordan didn't miss time due to injury.

Beyond that, let's not proclaim Rose as 100% physically. He didn't look like he had his old lift in Fiba. Maybe it was conditioning but several times he came into the lane and elevated and didn't look at all like the old Derrick Rose.

If Rose returns to MVP level as an athleticism dependent guard after two years off due to knee injuries, he will be the first guy to do it. The best thing we can say is that there really isn't much of a sample size to compare it to. Its not like there are many MVP level players that missed back to back years in their early 20's.

It's not like the old Derrick Rose was always soaring above the rim on every drive. He was a really crafty finisher, and it was that touch around the rim that was missing in FIBA. He showed that he still has the hops.

[pb-ceo]

And the thing is, even shooting from 30 feet isn't the norm (obviously). Hell, even 27 feet isn't. Remember that 3 pointer Korver shot in Bosh's face, in OT back in 2012? See the pic below...

This is 27 feet:


Rarely do NBA players shoot from that range. If they are, generally, we're talking about bail out shots.

That's not 27 feet, scorers just give a rough guess. The top of the key is ~24ft. that's at least another 6 - 7 feet.

And what you did was a guess as well. As it does not look to be 6-7 feet from the 3 point line to me.

it's pretty easy to estimate that it's 6-7 ft further out from the line. it's Certainly much further than 27ft.

[Watchlist]

he is still as fast but not as good