Zach Lowe (Grantland) on Jimmy Butler's Extension

[NZB2323]

Max?

Is he really that much better than Ronnie Brewer or Thabo?

[No-Man]

He's still a promising player; potential's there to be DPOY.

He is 25, hardly promising, he is what he is.
The DPOY statement... Bruce Bowen who was twice the defender Butler is didnt even sniff it while playing for arguably the best team of the decade... so...

Tough competition (Leonard, Noah, Howard, Durant, Lebron), but he really is the best shut-down defender I've seen in ages

Durant? DPOY? Leonard? DPOY? seriously?
You clearly didnt watch prime Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Raja Bell or Doug Christie?
What about Iguodala, Pat Beverley or Tony Allen this days? Tony Allen shut down, while being much shorter, Kevin Durant, the best offensive player in the game, in two playoff series.

he'll be looking for $12m-14.

seriously, I will stop watching NBA if somebody throw that type of deal to Jimmy Butler.

I like Butler a lot, but he is not a better defender than Tony Allen or Bruce Bowen, and he is a similar offensive one, with not much upside on that side of the field, check their contracts, add some cash because Butler is still 25 and the higher cap/new tv deal, and that should be it.

At most, 8m$ per year.

[bullsRlife]

Guys, this is Zach Lowe pulling this max crap out of his behind. Zach lowe's an idiot for even putting this idea into people's heads.

[Mech Engineer]

Butler's agent can not only cite this article but also the increasing salary cap which basically means everyone's market rate is going to increase.

I doubt it will be an easy discussion this October/November if the Bulls try to sell him on a deal like they gave Taj/Noah. The Bulls can sell the security of a big contract but Jimmy is not without any leverage. The Bulls also do not have somebody ready to replace him and if McDermott struggles on defense, Jimmy's value to the Bulls will only increase.

[PaKii94]

I think labeling Butler as a defender because his offense is limited is unfair. He's certainly more than just a defender. Often times he is the strongest most athletic player on the floor. He is also one of the highest IQ players on the floor almost always. I don't think either of those two points are up for debate...So having said that, there aren't a lot of Jimmy Butler's out there.

He plays winning basketball and he plays basketball on a higher level than most guys on the floor...I know in ball it's easy to identify a player who can't shoot..But as Lowe pointed because of his size and athleticism he can do a ton of things offensively...The one projection I will make is that I believe with a more defined role, Butler is going to be back to crashing the offensive boards...I thought more than shooting that was the one part of his game that truly regressed....Shooting is shooting...makes and misses happen...but offensive rebounding, that's all hustle...I don't think Butler had the legs for it


Simply, Butler isn''t just a defender. This isn't Bogans we are talking about. If the Bulls decided letting Butler walk is best for the team, that's fine. But it'll be a long while before a player like Butler comes around again. And that's why he's going to get paid a lot of money

Are there defensive metrics that show how good he actually is defensively compared to other SG's?

Does Butler guard primarily SG's or some SF's? If it's just SG's, how many scorers are in the league at this specific position nowadays?

JImmy guarded the best offensive wing/guard on the opposite team period. and while doing that, he held opponents to a 11(Sg) and 10 (SF) PER p48. I think that's the best in the NBA. He made the bulls, +1.4 better on defense while on vs off the court (In comparison, Noah was a 0.0, Taj was 1.5) keeping in mind that its much harder to effect the defense as a wing vs as a big

He's 16th in the league in steals p100p but he is 2nd in avoiding fouls. <-- that's crazy

[donaldtrump_00]

ppl always rate butler on getting paid off his 3pt shot. he will get paid reguardless because he's prob a top 3 defender in the entire nba. if he can get u 13-15 ppg with that then it doesn't matter how good your shot is. your going to get paid. look at iggy for golden state. he doesn't have a elite shot but its serviceable enough to get by. he two things better then jimmy and that's handle the ball and pass. hes a 12 mill guy. if chi can get butler at 8 they better jump on it now before he really gets good

[jc23]

considering the market and what teams have been offering you start with a 4/28 offer. His agent probably comes back with a 4/44 and then they both meet somewhere in the middle. Say 4/36.

Jimmy needs to understand that had he been drafted by any one of a number of teams he would not be looked upon so favorably. Chicago and Thibs made him a household name among nba fans.

[FecesOfDeath]

He is 25, hardly promising, he is what he is.

I had to that someone would think that 25 is already too old for improvement for a professional athlete.

[Proven_Winner]

For what it's worth Stephenson,klay, kawhi, and parsons are all around jimmy's age and people still think they have promising futures as they are still pretty young.

[No-Man]

For what it's worth Stephenson,klay, kawhi, and parsons are all around jimmy's age and people still think they have promising futures as they are still pretty young.

Parsons does not have that much upside, he is going to be a really good player, he is already, and he can improve, of course, because he had 0 coaching so far in NBA with McHale, but Jimmy already got a top10 coach with Thibs.
Jimmy can improve, but he does not have a high ceiling by any change.

Klay is already a much better palyer and two years younger, Kawhi the same, he is 3 years younger, Stephenson is also younger and better.

[samwana]

I think with the new tv-contract upcoming it won't really hurt us to sign JB long term for 4/32 that would be around the same as Taj Gibson and I think he is about the same player. If he improves this year great we won, if he stays about the same it will be around value and if he gets worse we will have lost, but with him being so young still, I can't see how he would get worse. So at the minimum you would break even on that contract. Don't know if he would take it though.

[Proven_Winner]

For what it's worth Stephenson,klay, kawhi, and parsons are all around jimmy's age and people still think they have promising futures as they are still pretty young.

Parsons does not have that much upside, he is going to be a really good player, he is already, and he can improve, of course, because he had 0 coaching so far in NBA with McHale, but Jimmy already got a top10 coach with Thibs.
Jimmy can improve, but he does not have a high ceiling by any change.

Klay is already a much better palyer and two years younger, Kawhi the same, he is 3 years younger, Stephenson is also younger and better.

klay and lance are 1 year or less younger than jimmy who just turned 25 like last week. Kawhi is 1 year or more but they are still around the same age.

No one is saying jimmy has some very high ceiling, but he is still young and can make improvements to be better. Having coaching is one part but you also need a team to maximize your strengths and last year we had no one to create for him and take off a ton of pressure. The year before we had Nate and Marco carrying everything offensively and jimmy got to relax and play his game.

I think more or less people are expecting him to play like he did in his breakout year which is very much a real possibility seeing as he's a only 25.

[Rerisen]

Unfortunately, offense improving or not, Jimmy has the Bulls over a barrel unless Doug becomes a better defender than Korver/Dunleavy, which isn't that likely. As the SF of the future how is Doug ever gonna match-up with the LeBron's, Melo's, Paul George's of the world, without someone to cover for him?

Tony Snell certainly doesn't seem like he'll be ready to take over such a role.

[DanTown8587]

Jimmy is miles ahead of what Tony Allen does on a basketball floor. Tony Allen is a literal liability to his team offensively in that he literally hurts what they want to do with him being on the floor. Butler isn't close to that; Butler simply doesn't have good from a stand still creation OR a good ability to hit threes. One of those could change (the threes) and then he's about 90-100% of Luol Deng (who just got 2-20 10 years into the league). I'm not saying Jimmy Butler signs a max deal I just think people saying eight million a year are way off. Lowe/Sham aren't guessing Butler is a max guy, other GM's are telling him this. If those GM's are saying this, his agent knows this so Jimmy signing for eight million is almost a bigger risk than not signing at all.

I think Bulls would have to go 4/40 to get his name on the contract. I mean Gordon Hayward just had MULTIPLE teams line up to give him the max; Jimmy with any kind of improvement in his shot is worth more than half that.

[pb-ceo]

the thing I love about the league is it's fans and cheerleaders are always at the ready to offer every excuse imaginable for poor play.

[mademan]

If Butler has great games against Lebron this year, on national television, he's gonna get paid, imo.

[TheStig]

Not really a surprise Butler could get overpaid. If he becomes an efficent 3rd or 4th option, nails the 3, finishes at the rim, scores 15ppg and plays elite D, I can see someone maxing him out for 3 years like Parsons or Hayward.

15ppg? with Rose, McDermott, Gasol, Noah, Mirotic and Gibson ahead of him in offense probably? in what world? he didnt even sniff that without Rose and Gasol.

The Bulls are not changing their style of play, Butler is not going to come even close to 15ppg.

Well he averaged 13.1 last year. I think its reasonable he will still get 10 shots a game but his efficiency should improve with Rose and Gasol and finally shaking his turf toe. While he isn't a high volume scorer, he will play 35mpg next year.

[No-Man]

He averaged 13ppg last year in a team where Joakim Noah was the best offensive player, this year you have Gasol, Rose back, McDermott and Mirotic, Butler is not going to have enough shots to get close to that, his eff should get better, but not his ppg.

[aaqubed]

Guys, this is Zach Lowe pulling this max crap out of his behind. Zach lowe's an idiot for even putting this idea into people's heads.

Zach Lowe tends to do his research. I'm guessing he has a reason he threw out the max there, and didn't just pull it out of nowhere. In fact, I know he didn't, Sham tweeted about this awhile ago:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MarkDeeksNBA/status/484183185690198017[/tweet]

Now again, this will depend on how Butler plays this year. But he could theoretically play his way to a max or near max contract.

[musiqsoulchild]

Max?

Is he really that much better than Ronnie Brewer or Thabo?

Thabo.

Thats a guy that would have fit next to Rose better than Jimmy.