What's the deal with Noah's knee?

[Stratmaster]

I think Taj has been the teams best defender for some time now, but I digress.

Noah does help the team a lot on offense already. Which is why Pau would be better off the bench giving the second unit a boost and also resting Noah. Taj and Noah should start. They are great together. Pau can play a lot of 4th quarters for Noah when they need a guy who can get his own shot better.

Well, I was going to say you can think that (your digression); but I really don't understand how people can think that, so I won't say that. Last season, Taj declined defensively while Noah won DPOY. I would have bought that argument more prior to the last two seasons. Obviously, most experts out there valued Noah's D more than Taj. And this during a season where Taj was considered a candidate for 6th man of the year. When Taj wins DPOY, then lets compare him to Noah.

I agree that Noah helps the team offensively, and I would say significantly more than Taj, who got to a point last season where he at least didn't hurt the team offensively.

But I have to disagree again on the Taj/Noah starting comment. I think it is likely, if not a given, that Butler will start. having those 3 in the lineup with a still (for whatever reason) rehabbing Rose means a ton of offensive pressure on either Mcd, a rook, or MDJ, a limited threat player. It will be deja vu' all over again.

[mhsiao]

IMO I don't see anything to worry about for this season. Players like Tim Duncan (2000) have had more dramatic knee surgeries and still been great. Sure, Noah could be worse and may have less bounce over time but I don't see it having a major effect this year. Why play the hand wringing game? Go out and play and kick ass Jo No!

The thing is Spurs never play Duncan at 5, and they are always search center to allow Duncan stay at PF.

With Noah's play style he really shouldn't add more weight even those are muscles, however he has to bulk up to be able to play Center. I recall Noah started to have lower body injury once he bulked up.

Perhaps with good front court depth it will allow Noah to have proper rest. This is also why Bulls isn't trade away Taj because it is important for Noah and Bulls in the long run. (Taj is also under good contract.)

[League Circles]

I agree Noah's minutes need to come down. I don't think you will; see them come down to 24 mpg on average. He is too valuable a player to limit to those kind of minutes; unless he really can't play more than 24 in which case we have a problem.

I could see him averaging 30 mpg; playing maybe 36+ in contested games against quality opponents, and maybe getting several nights where he only plays 24 mpg in blowouts or the 2nd game of back-to-backs. Of course, that is the way I think. With Thibs, we may see him on the court with 3 minutes left in the game and the Bulls up 20.

I'll be disappointed if he ever plays 36 at least based on what I know about the players now.

Straight up, I think Noah is not quite as good as Pau and Taj at basketball. I **** love Noah. He is an elite defender and leader, but he's injury prone and has some notable offensive deficiencies, and can't defend the big beasts that well IMO.

Well, straight up, I think it is nuts to even mention Taj in the same breath as Noah. Taj's offensive deficiencies make Noah look like a great 2 way player, unless you just mean volume scoring when you talk about offense. Noah is a better defender and rebounder, some of that due to his height advantage.

Pau was a better basketball player, but I don't think he is at this point. Regardless, Taj should not be asked to play extended minutes at Center, Pau needs his minutes limited also, and Noah is Thibs guy.

It's not just "volume scoring". It's "scoring while a defender is trying to stop you from scoring", which Taj can do and Noah really can't much IMO. Also Taj's shot is more respected by defenders IMO, because it doesn't look like **** like Noah's does. (Taj also gets more lift and arc on his shot).

Then there is the ability to finish, where Taj is notably better IMO. I place little value in playmaking abilities among non scorers like Noah, Rondo, Rubio, etc. It looks good on paper but I don't think it's really good for an offense.

[2015nbachamps]

This is what Sam Smith has written about Joakim:

Joakim Noah: In the best season of his pro career, Noah became the emotional leader of the Bulls. He won the league’s top defensive award and was voted by media the best center. Perhaps no one’s role on the Bulls could change as much this season. In some respects, Taj Gibson might fit better with Pau Gasol. Gasol likely will start at power forward with Noah at center. But Gasol is by far the better offensive player and post player. Much of Noah’s offensive impact last season was as something of a point center with the offense running through him. That changes with the return of Rose and the addition of Gasol. Plus, Noah quietly has been piling up injuries with thumb surgery in 2010, ankle and foot problems and then knee surgery after last season, which prevented him from playing in the summer. He’ll likely come into the season slowly and perhaps more than Rose is a candidate for reduced minutes as he turns 30 this season. Noah seems likely to be more of a defensive specialist this season being able to cover the better offensive player when playing with Gasol and adept in the switching defenses with Gibson that have been so effective under Thibodeau.
More at:
http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/theres-no-time-present-bulls

This is the under-rated part of the Gasol signing. If the Bulls had signed some ordinary big like Mozgov(example) instead of Pau, they would have been in trouble even with all the complaints of the loaded front-court/over-spending on the front-court.

Even getting a Love by trading Mirotic/Taj would have been a risky move, IMO. It is not like Love would have taken Noah's offensive responsibilites. The riskier part of Noah's injuries has been that it has happened at the wrong times for the last 4 seasons...by playoff time. That means he just breaks down with a whole season mileage.

the chicago bulls press machine works like the kardashian press machine...they always build a storyline...and we do have too many starting quality Centers and could use a wing...sam smith has essentially been a mouth piece for the front office so this could be the beginning of the anti NOAH campaign. we saw it with Gordon, then Deng...we have not exactly seen too much of it regarding Rose...
but this may mean that the front office is busy looking at consolidation trades.

[kyrv]

I just hope he doesn't rush back.

[RebuildaBulls]

Hopefully bulls blow out enough teams early that Rose, Gasol and Noah all get to rest. Plus I'd like to watch the new guys get minutes

[Eduardo]

[kulaz3000]

I'm a little stunned that there are a few people that want to trade him because of this news. I don't think people realize how important Jo is to our franchise, not only on the court, but off the court. There could be an argument to be made that he is more important than Derrick.

It's difficult not to like Jo, but you don't just replace a big man that is as unique as him just like that. There aren't many players like him, and if you were to trade him you'd have to get another quality big man in return who is as close to him as a player if not better, and which teams are out there who would be willing to trade us a big man in return at the same level of talent? I can't see it.

Not only that, the guy has basically said that he has been on the phones for years now to free agents summer after summer. He is not only our starting center, he is the heart beat of our franchise and he acts the part even off the court by pitching the team to other players. It shows how committed he is to the franchise, and isn't just some person who plays basketball for the team on a contract basis.

To me at least, regardless of his health he is irreplaceable. He'd have to take a Greg Oden like turn for me to even consider trading him, and even then, I'd love for him to remain with the Bull franchise in some other capacity.

[SearsTower]

Hearing Jo talk about the knee today made me a lot more concerned than I was before about his health and long term durability. Luckily, the Bulls are super deep upfront and there's no reason for Noah to over exert himself this season. Unfortunately, Thibs is a stubborn mad man and I can totally see him red-shirting Mirotic this season and loading up Taj/Noah/Gasol with heavy minutes. I hope I'm wrong.

[fleet]

Hearing Jo talk about the knee today made me a lot more concerned than I was before about his health and long term durability. Luckily, the Bulls are super deep upfront and there's no reason for Noah to over exert himself this season. Unfortunately, Thibs is a stubborn mad man and I can totally see him red-shirting Mirotic this season and loading up Taj/Noah/Gasol with heavy minutes. I hope I'm wrong.

I've been working all day. I missed it all. What did Noah say about the knee?

[vxmike]

Hopefully bulls blow out enough teams early that Rose, Gasol and Noah all get to rest. Plus I'd like to watch the new guys get minutes

There's just no need to go all out in the Eastern conference. The Bulls can afford to rest some guys and still snag the #2 seed and homecourt in the ECF. Cleveland is a short flight from home. The different between guys staying healthy and being beaten down come playoff time is likely to be one single extra home game = not worth it.

[Mech Engineer]

Hopefully bulls blow out enough teams early that Rose, Gasol and Noah all get to rest. Plus I'd like to watch the new guys get minutes

There's just no need to go all out in the Eastern conference. The Bulls can afford to rest some guys and still snag the #2 seed and homecourt in the ECF. Cleveland is a short flight from home. The different between guys staying healthy and being beaten down come playoff time is likely to be one single extra home game = not worth it.

Home-Court does make a difference between two evenly matched teams....Look at Indiana-Miami ECF Game 7 a few years back. I am sure Indiana would have had a better chance of winning Game 7 if that was at home. Look at Miami-San Antonio a few years back or the Lakers-Boston series a few years back.

If you can get momentum in a series early on, homecourt doesn't matter. But, for tired/evenly matched teams, it does matter. If the whole point is winning a championship...homecourt matters unless you have a dominant team.

I get your point but these Bulls need homecourt and have to be smart about resting/use their depth well.

[kodo]

Noah's knee surgery is not surprising.

We're the oldest team in the NBA by average age (tied w/ Dallas), we're going to get hit by problems that plague old teams like knees and injuries. It's doubly damning for us because our young star is also plagued with injuries, but that's where we are.

My biggest worry is that Thibs is not seeing the reality that we're older than San Antonio or Brooklyn and still plays a 110%-every-reg-season-night gameplan that's more suited for a young team. We should be following the pacing strategy of the Spurs.

[TruthSerum]

Noah's knee surgery is not surprising.

We're the oldest team in the NBA by average age (tied w/ Dallas), we're going to get hit by problems that plague old teams like knees and injuries. It's doubly damning for us because our young star is also plagued with injuries, but that's where we are.

My biggest worry is that Thibs is not seeing the reality that we're older than San Antonio or Brooklyn and still plays a 110%-every-reg-season-night gameplan that's more suited for a young team. We should be following the pacing strategy of the Spurs.

Excellent point!

I hadn't realized our age averaged out as you say, but agree Thibs needs to copy Pop and I know he's tried to in the past. Too bad we don't have a couple of first ballot HOF's with a fringe HOF to make the transition easier.

Wait, after this offseason we might have something similar after all... just need stability in our system.

*Fingers crossed*

[fleet]

Noah's knee surgery is not surprising.

We're the oldest team in the NBA by average age (tied w/ Dallas), we're going to get hit by problems that plague old teams like knees and injuries. It's doubly damning for us because our young star is also plagued with injuries, but that's where we are.

My biggest worry is that Thibs is not seeing the reality that we're older than San Antonio or Brooklyn and still plays a 110%-every-reg-season-night gameplan that's more suited for a young team. We should be following the pacing strategy of the Spurs.

Noah is in his prime. He shouldn't need a ton of rest, but he may be benefitted by a little of it conceptually.

The concern I would have is not so much that they are resting Noah because he wears down by the end of the year. Apparently he does. I would be more concerned if the reason he was being rested became less for generic holistic rest reasons, and more because of a specific knee issue. Which is still up in the air. He wears a knee brace now, and they are sitting him tonight.

[PAUerful]

needs moar love

[MrSparkle]

Noah should play about 28-32 mpg this year... Pau a little less.

I thought it was great seeing him in a big role the last 2 seasons, he got some accolades, but we know he's not Kareem 2.0. Pau and Mirotic ought to make the game easier for us. I want Taj to burden a lot of minutes as the energy guy, this year.

[Ugly Duckling]

I tore my lateral meniscus in half 11 months ago and spent 9 months doing research and undergoing conservative treatment before I bit the bullet and had Dr. Cole cut it out. I consider myself a quasi-expert when it comes to the knee. Different people respond differently. There are too many variables to accurately predict an outcome. Noah is a beast. He's a relatively young, elite athlete with access to the best treatment. We don't know how much cartilage was removed or from where, but his knee will likely never be the same. I think he will adapt and has a few All-NBA seasons left in the tank.

[johnnyvann840]

I saw this in the game thread and I have to admit it has me concerned about the knee. He is limping noticeably. Watching him walking around last night I thought he was limping and this gif really shows the limping. Well, this and the fact that he didnt seem to be very agile on the court in game 1. Hopefully, he just tweaked something in practice and it's minor and this is not still from the May surgery.

[johnnyvann840]

Taj, who got to a point last season where he at least didn't hurt the team offensively.

Keep spewing nonsense.. I posted this in the other thread..

Also, for those saying that Taj "hurt the Bulls offense" until last year.. How about some freaking facts...

Two seasons ago, 2012-13. The Bulls scored a massive 4.6 MORE points per 100 possessions with Taj on the floor than when he was off. Team scored a very respectable 107.5 points per 100 WITH Gibson and just 102.9 without .

Last season, The Bulls offense was 3.7 pts BETTER per 100 possessions WITH Taj. Team scored 105.7 pts per 100 WITH Taj and just 102 without him. Huge difference of being Bottom of the barrel, last in the league, vs. being a respectable offense