Jimmy Butler: Shooting Guard?

drosestruts · Post #221 » by **drosestruts** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:45 pm

With so many Butler threads I wasn't sure if I should start another for this or just post in an existing thread but I found this article interesting:

http://pippenainteasy.com/2014/11/21/bu ... my-butler/

Basically, it details that by not extending Butler we'll only have his cap hit counting against our salary next season allowing us to use the full MLE. Had we extended Butler we would have only had access to the tax payers mid-level.

This way we can add a player for around $5 million, then re-sign Butler.

Pretty savvy move by the front office.

aaqubed · Post #222 » by **aaqubed** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:05 pm

drosestruts wrote:With so many Butler threads I wasn't sure if I should start another for this or just post in an existing thread but I found this article interesting:

http://pippenainteasy.com/2014/11/21/bu ... my-butler/

Basically, it details that by not extending Butler we'll only have his cap hit counting against our salary next season allowing us to use the full MLE. Had we extended Butler we would have only had access to the tax payers mid-level.

This way we can add a player for around $5 million, then re-sign Butler.

Pretty savvy move by the front office.

This is wrong. If you use the MLE, you are hardcapped at the apron. So it does not matter whether Butler is on the books before or after, using the MLE means even with Butler's bird rights, we cannot match a contract that would take us over the apron.

NDave79 · Post #223 » by **NDave79** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:15 pm

drosestruts wrote:With so many Butler threads I wasn't sure if I should start another for this or just post in an existing thread but I found this article interesting:

http://pippenainteasy.com/2014/11/21/bu ... my-butler/

Basically, it details that by not extending Butler we'll only have his cap hit counting against our salary next season allowing us to use the full MLE. Had we extended Butler we would have only had access to the tax payers mid-level.

This way we can add a player for around $5 million, then re-sign Butler.

Pretty savvy move by the front office.

Thanks for sharing.

-edit - and now I just read the following post, so maybe it isn't all that interesting after all. Again, thanks for sharing either way.

NDave79 · Post #224 » by **NDave79** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:25 pm

danzou wrote:Butler's FG% starting to regress, as expected.

I'm pretty confident Jimmy will never be an ideal 1st option. No shame in that. Scottie Pippen and Kevin Garnett weren't ideal 1st options either. If we can ever get fully healthy, I expect to see Jimmy's FG% to go back up.

TimRobbins · Post #225 » by **TimRobbins** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:30 am

Lets lay off the Pippen comparisons. Jimmy isn't Pippen and will never be Pippen. Scottie was the #2 player in the league for a long while and he did pretty well as a first option during MJs Baseball retirement.

Butler is great, but he doesn't have Pippen talent on either side of the floor.

TimRobbins · Post #226 » by **TimRobbins** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:32 am

drosestruts wrote:With so many Butler threads I wasn't sure if I should start another for this or just post in an existing thread but I found this article interesting:

http://pippenainteasy.com/2014/11/21/bu ... my-butler/

Basically, it details that by not extending Butler we'll only have his cap hit counting against our salary next season allowing us to use the full MLE. Had we extended Butler we would have only had access to the tax payers mid-level.

This way we can add a player for around $5 million, then re-sign Butler.

Pretty savvy move by the front office.

That's inaccurate. If you use the fill MLE, you're capped at the Apron. There was nothing Savvy about not extending Butler for $12M PER.

ATRAIN53 · Post #227 » by **ATRAIN53** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:08 pm

So Jimmy, when you are like 0-8 from the floor....

and you've been showing a penchant for driving to the basket.....

why not take it to the hole?
a couple of those FT shots might help you get confidence in your stroke.

WindyCityBorn · Post #228 » by **WindyCityBorn** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:15 pm

His first bad game of the season with a decimated league roster. Let's not go crazy

Post #229 » by **Ice Man** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:26 pm

TimRobbins wrote:Scottie was the #2 player in the league for a long while

?

At any rate, even if Jimmy could match Scottie's best scoring season of 22 pg, he won't touch 8.7 rebounds or 5.6 assists, I don't think. So I do agree with your premise.

Post #230 » by **DASMACKDOWN** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:33 pm

ATRAIN53 wrote:So Jimmy, when you are like 0-8 from the floor....

and you've been showing a penchant for driving to the basket.....

why not take it to the hole?
a couple of those FT shots might help you get confidence in your stroke.

I wouldnt look too much into it. He was dead tired. All his shots were flat and short. Sure he could have dont other things, but he certainly didnt have the legs for it.

I cant say I really blame him though. I dont think anyone holds that against him playing on a back to back after playing 41mins the night before.

Post #231 » by **Ice Man** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:38 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:I dont think anyone holds that against him playing on a back to back after playing 41mins the night before.

Thibs figures that exhausted Jimmy is better than his fresh alternatives. And that if Jimmy is dead tired for one game, he will bounce back and there is not a cumulative effect.

Not saying he is right, but those appear to be his beliefs. This board I think would largely think otherwise.

Post #232 » by **RedBulls23** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:58 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:I wouldnt look too much into it. He was dead tired. All his shots were flat and short. Sure he could have dont other things, but he certainly didnt have the legs for it.

I cant say I really blame him though. I dont think anyone holds that against him playing on a back to back after playing 41mins the night before.

I think he was really favoring his shoulder and avoiding contact because he was in pain. I just hope he doesn't force himself to play on it where it get's worse like Taj's ankle.

DanTown8587 · Post #233 » by **DanTown8587** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:17 pm

drosestruts wrote:With so many Butler threads I wasn't sure if I should start another for this or just post in an existing thread but I found this article interesting:

http://pippenainteasy.com/2014/11/21/bu ... my-butler/

Basically, it details that by not extending Butler we'll only have his cap hit counting against our salary next season allowing us to use the full MLE. Had we extended Butler we would have only had access to the tax payers mid-level.

This way we can add a player for around $5 million, then re-sign Butler.

Pretty savvy move by the front office.

Pretty dumb move by the front office; the Full MLE caps you at the apron of roughly 85 million so paying Butler more next year gets you CLOSER to the apron and not further away from it.

If the Bulls had given Jimmy his deal, they probably could have afforded to pay him + the MLE + resign Dunleavy and now I think they're going to have to choose on the last one.

Stratmaster · Post #234 » by **Stratmaster** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:45 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:His first bad game of the season with a decimated league roster. Let's not go crazy

Yes. The problem with all of the hype after his amazing early start is it sets him up for a fall when it comes to message board opinions. The expectation level has been set way too high meaning almost certain disappointment for some posters.

Fortunately, I doubt Jimmy puts much stock in any of it. He is just out there working his arse off game after game.

ptpablo · Post #235 » by **ptpablo** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:06 pm

Wouldn't it cap at 85 if jimmy signed or not if they plan on using MLE?

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MrSparkle · Post #236 » by **MrSparkle** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:25 pm

Ice Man wrote:
TimRobbins wrote:Scottie was the #2 player in the league for a long while

?

At any rate, even if Jimmy could match Scottie's best scoring season of 22 pg, he won't touch 8.7 rebounds or 5.6 assists, I don't think. So I do agree with your premise.

Pippen's a HOF 6x champ. Jimmy has yet to make an all-star game; arguable case this year. I think ya could've just said that.

I like the comparison though. Nothing wrong with complimenting Jimmy; he's got some "Pippen" in his game. #33 had an incredible wing-span though. Allowed him to effectively reach centers, whereas Jimmy struggles against any taller match-ups (especially Durant). Can't teach size.

But if a casual fan asked me to describe Jimmy, I'd say "shorter Pippen with less-developed offensive skills".

umfan83 · Post #237 » by **umfan83** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:12 am

What were the requirements for the Derrick Rose exception max? Jimmy going for dat MVP

Post #238 » by **RedBulls23** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:31 am

umfan83 wrote:What were the requirements for the Derrick Rose exception max? Jimmy going for dat MVP

Jimmy doesn't qualify for the DROSE rule, but if he keeps this up he will get a max contract offer like Klay.

musiqsoulchild · Post #239 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:58 am

Red-Bulls83 wrote:
umfan83 wrote:What were the requirements for the Derrick Rose exception max? Jimmy going for dat MVP

Jimmy doesn't qualify for the DROSE rule, but if he keeps this up he will get a max contract offer like Klay.

Red83, whats Jimmy's max.

Meaning whats the maximum a team can offer him in RFA?

Post #240 » by **RedBulls23** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:31 am

musiqsoulchild wrote:
Red-Bulls83 wrote:
umfan83 wrote:What were the requirements for the Derrick Rose exception max? Jimmy going for dat MVP

Jimmy doesn't qualify for the DROSE rule, but if he keeps this up he will get a max contract offer like Klay.

Red83, whats Jimmy's max.

Meaning whats the maximum a team can offer him in RFA?

I think it's similar to what Parson and Hayward got. 4 years 63-65mill? I'm not sure of the exact numbers though so you will have to ask a cap expert.