Why haven't the Bulls invested in an elite backup PG?

[Ice Man]

Whatever the discussion here, the big offense injections this year were going to be: Rose | Gasol | McDermott | Mirotic.

With the real answer being Jimmy!

[NZB2323]

We should have elite backups at every position!

Stole my thunder.

No idea why most of the money goes to starters.

Or why they didn't have ESP and know Rose would be missing games.

There were a lot of elite players available for cheap too. I feel the OPs pain.

What we really should do is have an elite 3rd string point guard in case our elite backup point guard gets injured also.

Actually, the Bulls should just get 4 elite point guards. That way we wouldn't have to worry about injuries at that position.

[kingkirk]

Except, Derrick would have to defend a bigger, taller SG.

Most nights it would be easier than the PG assignment which is a loaded talent position in the NBA.

While there are only about 5-7 dangerous offensive SGs in the whole league. The rest that can score is pretty much just chasing shooters.

Rerisen suggesting Rose plays some 2 guard?

I've finally done it. I've changed his mind.

[Polynice4Pippen]

As far as "elite" back ups go, I think we had one in DJ Augustin. Wished we kept him around.

Yep.

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P4P, Homo, even ignoring financial realities...both Kirk and Brooks have been better than DJ in every category except free throw attempts and efficiency.

Which is to be expected, since he is playing a backup role, wheras Kirk has started 9 games...some of them at SG and some of them at PG.

Points: Brooks - 126, DJ - 116 , Kirk - 112
Assists: Kirk - 45, Brooks - 41, DJ - 32
Turnovers: Kirk - 20, DJ - 20, Brooks - 27
3 Pt% : Brooks - 47%, Kirk - 38%, DJ - 22%

Plus Kirk is starting in 2 positions based on injuries. And his defense is much better than DJ's. At 2 positions again. All while averaging only 7 MPG more than DJ.

D.J.'s numbers were bad in Indiana and Toronto too. Then he came to the Bulls and was fine. Kirk declined when he left the Bulls as well.

[Polynice4Pippen]

As far as "elite" back ups go, I think we had one in DJ Augustin. Wished we kept him around.

Yep.

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D.J. is at the same level as Hinrich and Brooks. In fact I think both of them are slightly better overall players than Augustin, although I appreciate all he did to help the Bulls last season. But if he's "elite," so are they.

D.J. led our team in scoring last season. If that's not elite play from a backup PG (being the leading scorer and #1 scoring option on a playoff team) I don't know what is.

[musiqsoulchild]

Yep.

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P4P, Homo, even ignoring financial realities...both Kirk and Brooks have been better than DJ in every category except free throw attempts and efficiency.

Which is to be expected, since he is playing a backup role, wheras Kirk has started 9 games...some of them at SG and some of them at PG.

Points: Brooks - 126, DJ - 116 , Kirk - 112
Assists: Kirk - 45, Brooks - 41, DJ - 32
Turnovers: Kirk - 20, DJ - 20, Brooks - 27
3 Pt% : Brooks - 47%, Kirk - 38%, DJ - 22%

Plus Kirk is starting in 2 positions based on injuries. And his defense is much better than DJ's. At 2 positions again. All while averaging only 7 MPG more than DJ.

D.J.'s numbers were bad in Indiana and Toronto too. Then he came to the Bulls and was fine. Kirk declined when he left the Bulls as well.

There's one number that DJ can never change......his height.

And that means he cannot do what Kirk did when Jimmy was out. Kirk is here to be a backup for 2 positions. Something DJ cannot do.

[Polynice4Pippen]

P4P, Homo, even ignoring financial realities...both Kirk and Brooks have been better than DJ in every category except free throw attempts and efficiency.

Which is to be expected, since he is playing a backup role, wheras Kirk has started 9 games...some of them at SG and some of them at PG.

Points: Brooks - 126, DJ - 116 , Kirk - 112
Assists: Kirk - 45, Brooks - 41, DJ - 32
Turnovers: Kirk - 20, DJ - 20, Brooks - 27
3 Pt% : Brooks - 47%, Kirk - 38%, DJ - 22%

Plus Kirk is starting in 2 positions based on injuries. And his defense is much better than DJ's. At 2 positions again. All while averaging only 7 MPG more than DJ.

D.J.'s numbers were bad in Indiana and Toronto too. Then he came to the Bulls and was fine. Kirk declined when he left the Bulls as well.

There's one number that DJ can never change......his height.

And that means he cannot do what Kirk did when Jimmy was out. Kirk is here to be a backup for 2 positions. Something DJ cannot do.

Jimmy plays 42 minutes a night. The backup SG thing is highly overrated

[musiqsoulchild]

D.J.'s numbers were bad in Indiana and Toronto too. Then he came to the Bulls and was fine. Kirk declined when he left the Bulls as well.

There's one number that DJ can never change......his height.

And that means he cannot do what Kirk did when Jimmy was out. Kirk is here to be a backup for 2 positions. Something DJ cannot do.

Jimmy plays 42 minutes a night. The backup SG thing is highly overrated

So, Jimmy plays 42 MPG even when Jimmy is injured and in street clothes?

I can buy that....sounds like something Jimmy can do in his sleep.

[Polynice4Pippen]

There's one number that DJ can never change......his height.

And that means he cannot do what Kirk did when Jimmy was out. Kirk is here to be a backup for 2 positions. Something DJ cannot do.

Jimmy plays 42 minutes a night. The backup SG thing is highly overrated

So, Jimmy plays 42 MPG even when Jimmy is injured and in street clothes?

I can buy that....sounds like something Jimmy can do in his sleep.

Or your first round pick from a year ago who was all summer league first team can step in as backup SG. Especially if you're turning down decent trade offers for him.

[unknownnewbie]

Yep.

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D.J. is at the same level as Hinrich and Brooks. In fact I think both of them are slightly better overall players than Augustin, although I appreciate all he did to help the Bulls last season. But if he's "elite," so are they.

D.J. led our team in scoring last season. If that's not elite play from a backup PG (being the leading scorer and #1 scoring option on a playoff team) I don't know what is.

He averaged 14.9 points per game. That's solid but it is far from elite. Nick Young put up 18.8 points per game off the bench for the Lakers last season, for example.

It really just underlines the fact that the Bulls had no one who could score on a consistently high level last season.

And you seem to be ignoring the fact that D.J. was an awful defensive player. So he may have been giving up as many points to the player(s) he was guarding as he was putting up himself.

He's a nice player and he did a good job on offense for the Bulls last season. He helped them win games. But he isn't any more of an elite backup PG than Kirk or Aaron.

[TheGameChanger]

I Rate Brooks as a Elite Back Up.

[BIG Game]

As an organization you have to show rose that we are behind him and bringing in another edit PG wouldn't do that. Oh and it doesn't make cap sense.

[GimmeDat]

I think we've done the absolute right thing with our backup spot since the ACL, it's worked out perfectly and not cost a cent over the minimum (apart from Kirk).

I would strongly consider drafting a PG, if, of course, he's close to BPA. I don't know a whole lot about this draft class yet so it's hard to say at this stage, but if we got a PG, preferably one that can shoot and play alongside Derrick at the 2 if he proves to stay healthy, and he panned out, that would be awesome for us.

[Polynice4Pippen]

D.J. is at the same level as Hinrich and Brooks. In fact I think both of them are slightly better overall players than Augustin, although I appreciate all he did to help the Bulls last season. But if he's "elite," so are they.

D.J. led our team in scoring last season. If that's not elite play from a backup PG (being the leading scorer and #1 scoring option on a playoff team) I don't know what is.

He averaged 14.9 points per game. That's solid but it is far from elite. Nick Young put up 18.8 points per game off the bench for the Lakers last season, for example.

It really just underlines the fact that the Bulls had no one who could score on a consistently high level last season.

And you seem to be ignoring the fact that D.J. was an awful defensive player. So he may have been giving up as many points to the player(s) he was guarding as he was putting up himself.

He's a nice player and he did a good job on offense for the Bulls last season. He helped them win games. But he isn't any more of an elite backup PG than Kirk or Aaron.

Averaging 19 ppg on a 27 win team that focuses strictly on offense and no defense isn't nearly as impressive as being the leading scorer of a 48 win team.

[dougthonus]

You lost me at 'elite backup'.

Breakout the GPS. Elite means among the best and backup means not a starter. Combined the mean among the best of the non starters.

17.4
16.8
15.8

Those are the PERs of Nate Robinson, D.J. Augustin, and Aaron Brooks. Note all three are playing at "above average" level for the league as a whole, which means "better than starting caliber", so it would appear in each of the past three seasons Chicago has been successful in getting an "elite backup" PG. In each season, they've found a guy who can create offense and win games for them on a fairly consistent basis despite not being starting caliber.

Overall, given the level of play the Bulls have achieved at this position, I struggle to comprehend how you could ask for more, particularly given that they've done this with the minimum salary three times. What targets do you think they could have obtained that would have fit the description you gave and done a better job than the ones they've chosen and show what the opportunity cost of getting them was?

[McBulls]

If the Bulls feel they need an elite PG, they should trade Rose for him -- if they can find any takers.

The title of the thread says it all. If the Bulls feel they need an elite "backup" PG, they should consider dumping Rose.

[SpinninHouse]

I'd prefer a HOF caliber back up center.


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[musiqsoulchild]

Jimmy plays 42 minutes a night. The backup SG thing is highly overrated

So, Jimmy plays 42 MPG even when Jimmy is injured and in street clothes?

I can buy that....sounds like something Jimmy can do in his sleep.

Or your first round pick from a year ago who was all summer league first team can step in as backup SG. Especially if you're turning down decent trade offers for him.

Come on....Snell is a ways away from taking minutes from Kirk. If Summer League were the predictor, then Doug and Snell should be killing it right about now.

And there is no trade offer that was offered or rejected.....that entire thread about Snell + Dunleavy for Martin was fiction. Fiction that was propelled by an artifical need for a shooting guard.

[Polynice4Pippen]

So, Jimmy plays 42 MPG even when Jimmy is injured and in street clothes?

I can buy that....sounds like something Jimmy can do in his sleep.

Or your first round pick from a year ago who was all summer league first team can step in as backup SG. Especially if you're turning down decent trade offers for him.

Come on....Snell is a ways away from taking minutes from Kirk. If Summer League were the predictor, then Doug and Snell should be killing it right about now.

And there is no trade offer that was offered or rejected.....that entire thread about Snell + Dunleavy for Martin was fiction. Fiction that was propelled by an artifical need for a shooting guard.

Snell was just fine down the stretch and in overtime against Cleveland when he guarded LeBron. He's easily capable of 10 freaking minutes a night at SG.

[logical_art]

You lost me at 'elite backup'.

Breakout the GPS. Elite means among the best and backup means not a starter. Combined the mean among the best of the non starters.

17.4
16.8
15.8

Those are the PERs of Nate Robinson, D.J. Augustin, and Aaron Brooks. Note all three are playing at "above average" level for the league as a whole, which means "better than starting caliber", so it would appear in each of the past three seasons Chicago has been successful in getting an "elite backup" PG. In each season, they've found a guy who can create offense and win games for them on a fairly consistent basis despite not being starting caliber.

Overall, given the level of play the Bulls have achieved at this position, I struggle to comprehend how you could ask for more, particularly given that they've done this with the minimum salary three times. What targets do you think they could have obtained that would have fit the description you gave and done a better job than the ones they've chosen and show what the opportunity cost of getting them was?

1. This is a PG friendly system. So PG play is inflated and a better PG than the guys we've had would surely outperform them.

2. We're forced to go with these offense defense switches all the time because those guys are defensive liabilities and Hinrich is an offensive liability. Getting a two way player would be a huge deal.