Mirotic At SF - What Say You?

[musiqsoulchild]

The current Niko/Mcd situation was certainly not in the plans after day 1 of training camp.

Nor was the notion of having NIko at the #3 spot. He forced his way in there by being so good. Which is what Jo and Thibs hinted at, way back in early October.

And yet, as recently as 1/1, 2 games ago he played 10 minutes. Same on 12/29. On 12/23 and 12/25 he played under 15 minutes.

Niko's playing time has come, as many expected, due to injuries throughout the season. They just weren't necessarily sure MDJ would be a candidate for Niko to replace at SF. There were no clues back in early October that Taj would miss 7 of the first 19 games. Had he not missed those games it is very likely that Niko would still be playing 10 mpg or less, and likely that the 2 game SF experiment wouldn't have happened. It is also very likely that when MDJ gets back, Mirotic's minutes go way down unless there is an injury to one of the bigs.

Or who knows, maybe Thibs will try Niko at SG if Butler needs to sit out a game or two?

EDIT: I will also add that if McD were healthy, he would have likely gotten the call when MDJ went down, unless he had continued to just be putrid over the last dozen games.

Snell.

Thibs likes his rotations...when Dunleavy and McD were both injured, Thibs had to look at his SF rotation.

He saw Snell.

Niko on the other hand, took the opportunity as a challenge and is making it work for him. No matter how small the sample size.

Snell has almost 2,000 NBA minutes. In that largish sample size, he has shown consistently to pass on the opportunity that keeps falling at his feet.

[Proven_Winner]

Man, I wish.

But next year Dunleavy is going to join us back for the vet min. That wont happen if we trade him. Big picture, its better to let him play out his ideal 25-28 MPG role here.

Also, you cant get a better wing for his current salary slot.

Are you sure about that? I would think MDJ can still get a 2-4mil contract.

Of course he can.

However,he took less money to join us.

If we win a title or come very close to it, I am positive he will do the same again.

Yea that's a possibility.

[JasonFTW]

Sure he can

[TheJordanRule]

Nor was the notion of having NIko at the #3 spot. He forced his way in there by being so good. Which is what Jo and Thibs hinted at, way back in early October.

And yet, as recently as 1/1, 2 games ago he played 10 minutes. Same on 12/29. On 12/23 and 12/25 he played under 15 minutes.

Niko's playing time has come, as many expected, due to injuries throughout the season. They just weren't necessarily sure MDJ would be a candidate for Niko to replace at SF. There were no clues back in early October that Taj would miss 7 of the first 19 games. Had he not missed those games it is very likely that Niko would still be playing 10 mpg or less, and likely that the 2 game SF experiment wouldn't have happened. It is also very likely that when MDJ gets back, Mirotic's minutes go way down unless there is an injury to one of the bigs.

Or who knows, maybe Thibs will try Niko at SG if Butler needs to sit out a game or two?

EDIT: I will also add that if McD were healthy, he would have likely gotten the call when MDJ went down, unless he had continued to just be putrid over the last dozen games.

Snell.

Thibs likes his rotations...when Dunleavy and McD were both injured, Thibs had to look at his SF rotation.

He saw Snell.

Niko on the other hand, took the opportunity as a challenge and is making it work for him. No matter how small the sample size.

Snell has almost 2,000 NBA minutes. In that largish sample size, he has shown consistently to pass on the opportunity that keeps falling at his feet.

On point. Great post Musiq. I agree 100 percent and this is coming from a believer in larger sample sizes than what Niko currently has under his belt. Niko's production has been so hot that there's literally no room for disagreement here. Even if it's just a hot streak, you're obligated to give Niko more time at SF and see if he falls off a cliff at some point. He's looking more natural at SF with each passing game and the fact that he's the former Euroleague MVP who has sliced and diced the second highest basketball competition in the world gives me hope that he's going to continue to improve.

[NDave79]

One nice thing with Niko at the 3 compared to Dunleavy is they can't put a small guy on him to try and put better, bigger defenders on Jimmy and Derrick. Even then, I think we should try and incorporate a fair number of post up attempts for Niko if he is being guarded by normal sized 3's. I've seen some really impressive looking post up moves in the past during his time with Real Madrid (i.e. some very smooth looking hook shots with both hands, nice footwork, and of course, timely pump fakes). He does seem to struggle a little in the post when he is overmatched physically (duh).

[Ice Man]

Hard to know where Niko's minutes will go when Mike returns. I trust Thibs to make the right decisions on that. Lord knows, I've criticized him for inflexibility in the past, but I cannot do so this year. He has been creative with his lineups. Two PG lineups, 3 guard lineups, 3 big lineups, two center lineups, no center lineups, you name it. I think he's doing a great job of mixing and matching the many resources that he has available to him.

[Gray Poster]

Hard to know where Niko's minutes will go when Mike returns. I trust Thibs to make the right decisions on that. Lord knows, I've criticized him for inflexibility in the past, but I cannot do so this year. He has been creative with his lineups. Two PG lineups, 3 guard lineups, 3 big lineups, two center lineups, no center lineups, you name it. I think he's doing a great job of mixing and matching the many resources that he has available to him.

Thibs seems to be trying to find a spot for him on the floor. Coach likes Pau, Jo and Taj better up front. It is yet to be seen what will happen at SF. MDJ was losing time in the fourth quarter already to Hinrich so maybe Niko will get some of that PT as well.

[WindyCityBorn]

Are you sure about that? I would think MDJ can still get a 2-4mil contract.

Of course he can.

However,he took less money to join us.

If we win a title or come very close to it, I am positive he will do the same again.

Yea that's a possibility.

Dunleavy should get more than the vet minimum from Chicago. 2 years/$5 million seems fair.

[Ice Man]

Thibs seems to be trying to find a spot for him on the floor. Coach likes Pau, Jo and Taj better up front. It is yet to be seen what will happen at SF. MDJ was losing time in the fourth quarter already to Hinrich so maybe Niko will get some of that PT as well.

My read as well. I think Thibs hopes & expects that Niko will be meaningful rotation player in the playoffs. After all, he went 27 minutes yesterday with success, including big plays down the stretch, against a possible NBA finalist. But he's still trying to figure out how that would work, with the lineup combinations.

[Gray Poster]

Thibs seems to be trying to find a spot for him on the floor. Coach likes Pau, Jo and Taj better up front. It is yet to be seen what will happen at SF. MDJ was losing time in the fourth quarter already to Hinrich so maybe Niko will get some of that PT as well.

My read as well. I think Thibs hopes & expects that Niko will be meaningful rotation player in the playoffs. After all, he went 27 minutes yesterday with success, including big plays down the stretch, against a possible NBA finalist. But he's still trying to figure out how that would work, with the lineup combinations.

Niko looked great yesterday. His defense is coming along. Can't believe the block on Brewer. Maybe Thibs will give another chance at the starting SF if Dunleavy is still out on Wednesday.

[NDave79]

As Noah alluded to, yesterday's game felt a little like a playoff game. I think it's great that Niko played so well in this type of an environment. I think it's a good sign that down the road, he will be the type of player that steps up their game as the stakes go up.

[musiqsoulchild]

Of course he can.

However,he took less money to join us.

If we win a title or come very close to it, I am positive he will do the same again.

Yea that's a possibility.

Dunleavy should get more than the vet minimum from Chicago. 2 years/$5 million seems fair.

Deserves got nothing to do with it.

Jimmy deserves more than 16. But its the max he can get.

[WindyCityBorn]

Yea that's a possibility.

Dunleavy should get more than the vet minimum from Chicago. 2 years/$5 million seems fair.

Deserves got nothing to do with it.

Jimmy deserves more than 16. But its the max he can get.

LOL you seriously think Dunleavy can't get more than that on the open market? The contract I proposed is a hometown discount. Deserved was the wrong word. He isn't a vet min player.

[musiqsoulchild]

Dunleavy should get more than the vet minimum from Chicago. 2 years/$5 million seems fair.

Deserves got nothing to do with it.

Jimmy deserves more than 16. But its the max he can get.

LOL you seriously think Dunleavy can't get more than that on the open market? The contract I proposed is a hometown discount. Deserved was the wrong word. He isn't a vet min player.

I think you are misunderstanding me.

Dunleavy can easily get good money elsewhere. But he is the sort of player that prefers a good work environment. He's already made his money earlier in his career.

His present contract itself is a discounted deal he gave us. The next one will be the same.

[WindyCityBorn]

Deserves got nothing to do with it.

Jimmy deserves more than 16. But its the max he can get.

LOL you seriously think Dunleavy can't get more than that on the open market? The contract I proposed is a hometown discount. Deserved was the wrong word. He isn't a vet min player.

I think you are misunderstanding me.

Dunleavy can easily get good money elsewhere. But he is the sort of player that prefers a good work environment. He's already made his money earlier in his career.

His present contract itself is a discounted deal he gave us. The next one will be the same.

This is true, but there is a difference between taking a discount and signing for the absolute lowest amount possible. Bulls won't have any money to sign any free agents this off-season after Butler gets his contract so he would be taking scraps without it providing any benefit to the team(other than possibly saving some luxury tax money). Even if the money isn't important these guys still have pride. If he was 39 like Ray Allen I would agree.

[P.C.]

Hard to know where Niko's minutes will go when Mike returns. I trust Thibs to make the right decisions on that. Lord knows, I've criticized him for inflexibility in the past, but I cannot do so this year. He has been creative with his lineups. Two PG lineups, 3 guard lineups, 3 big lineups, two center lineups, no center lineups, you name it. I think he's doing a great job of mixing and matching the many resources that he has available to him.

Thibs seems to be trying to find a spot for him on the floor. Coach likes Pau, Jo and Taj better up front. It is yet to be seen what will happen at SF. MDJ was losing time in the fourth quarter already to Hinrich so maybe Niko will get some of that PT as well.

I disagree with this. Thibs is playing Mirotic at the 3 because it's where he's most suited to play. I don't think people here realize quite what has happened over the last few games. Mirotic is a small forward here on out with Thibs. It's all about the defensive end. He's one of the handful of best defenders in the league at the 3 while he's just average, because of his length at power forward. Threes can't handle his strength, length and speed. I think this was most evident in the Celtics game. Jae Crowder was lighting Tony Snell up and when Mirotic came in it was over. (Not to mention Jeff Green going 4-18 and Trevor Ariza going 3-11.)

Mirotic will improve his handling skills over time, but he doesn't need to change as much as people think on offense to play small forward. Rudy Gay has made a career of it. A lot of the offensive development will be team orientated too. His teammates will learn how to work him out of the post better as time goes on.

[NDave79]

Hard to know where Niko's minutes will go when Mike returns. I trust Thibs to make the right decisions on that. Lord knows, I've criticized him for inflexibility in the past, but I cannot do so this year. He has been creative with his lineups. Two PG lineups, 3 guard lineups, 3 big lineups, two center lineups, no center lineups, you name it. I think he's doing a great job of mixing and matching the many resources that he has available to him.

Thibs seems to be trying to find a spot for him on the floor. Coach likes Pau, Jo and Taj better up front. It is yet to be seen what will happen at SF. MDJ was losing time in the fourth quarter already to Hinrich so maybe Niko will get some of that PT as well.

I disagree with this. Thibs is playing Mirotic at the 3 because it's where he's most suited to play. I don't think people here realize quite what has happened over the last few games. Mirotic is a small forward here on out with Thibs. It's all about the defensive end. He's one of the handful of best defenders in the league at the 3 while he's just average, because of his length at power forward. Threes can't handle his strength, length and speed. I think this was most evident in the Celtics game. Jae Crowder was lighting Tony Snell up and when Mirotic came in it was over. (Not to mention Jeff Green going 4-18 and Trevor Ariza going 3-11.)

Mirotic will improve his handling skills over time, but he doesn't need to change as much as people think on offense to play small forward. Rudy Gay has made a career of it. A lot of the offensive development will be team orientated too. His teammates will learn how to work him out of the post better as time goes on.

I think eventually Niko could excel at either positions and do see the advantages of being huge (as a lineup), but I think it is a pretty big stretch that Thibs now envisions Niko as his future 3. As a 4 his offensive abilities are game changing and add a dimension the Bulls have never had at the 4 spot. As he naturally fills out and continues on a NBA weight lifting regiment, I think his strength will be perfectly fine for a big. The fact that he is already a plus defensive rebounder is huge and a testament to his ability to bang with NBA bigs. Maybe he'll be like Bird and start as a 4, but play lots of minutes at the 3.

edit - I also think Niko's length is fine for a big. Nothing great, but I think he has shown the potential to be a pretty decent rim protector.

[Wont PerDont]

Hard to know where Niko's minutes will go when Mike returns. I trust Thibs to make the right decisions on that. Lord knows, I've criticized him for inflexibility in the past, but I cannot do so this year. He has been creative with his lineups. Two PG lineups, 3 guard lineups, 3 big lineups, two center lineups, no center lineups, you name it. I think he's doing a great job of mixing and matching the many resources that he has available to him.

Thibs seems to be trying to find a spot for him on the floor. Coach likes Pau, Jo and Taj better up front. It is yet to be seen what will happen at SF. MDJ was losing time in the fourth quarter already to Hinrich so maybe Niko will get some of that PT as well.

Easy fix, as far as I am concerned. Niko should immediately get the minutes Jimmie plays at the 3 as the primary sub for when MDJ gets rest. Everyone is constantly complaining about how many minutes Jimmie plays and this is the obvious solution to reduce his minutes a bit. Niko should get additional minutes as well (at both the 3 and 4), of course, but as a start, this is a no-brainer...let's hope Thibs sees it the same way.

[Wont PerDont]

Thibs seems to be trying to find a spot for him on the floor. Coach likes Pau, Jo and Taj better up front. It is yet to be seen what will happen at SF. MDJ was losing time in the fourth quarter already to Hinrich so maybe Niko will get some of that PT as well.

I disagree with this. Thibs is playing Mirotic at the 3 because it's where he's most suited to play. I don't think people here realize quite what has happened over the last few games. Mirotic is a small forward here on out with Thibs. It's all about the defensive end. He's one of the handful of best defenders in the league at the 3 while he's just average, because of his length at power forward. Threes can't handle his strength, length and speed. I think this was most evident in the Celtics game. Jae Crowder was lighting Tony Snell up and when Mirotic came in it was over. (Not to mention Jeff Green going 4-18 and Trevor Ariza going 3-11.)

Mirotic will improve his handling skills over time, but he doesn't need to change as much as people think on offense to play small forward. Rudy Gay has made a career of it. A lot of the offensive development will be team orientated too. His teammates will learn how to work him out of the post better as time goes on.

I think eventually Niko could excel at either positions and do see the advantages of being huge (as a lineup), but I think it is a pretty big stretch that Thibs now envisions Niko as his future 3. As a 4 his offensive abilities are game changing and add a dimension the Bulls have never had at the 4 spot. As he naturally fills out and continues on a NBA weight lifting regiment, I think his strength will be perfectly fine for a big. The fact that he is already a plus defensive rebounder is huge and a testament to his ability to bang with NBA bigs. Maybe he'll be like Bird and start as a 4, but play lots of minutes at the 3.

edit - I also think Niko's length is fine for a big. Nothing great, but I think he has shown the potential to be a pretty decent rim protector.

Is my memory failing me (very likely the case), or is this inaccurate? The way I remember it, Bird started at SF. Went like this:

PG - DJ
SG - Ainge
SF - Bird
PF - McHale
C - Parrish

[NDave79]

I disagree with this. Thibs is playing Mirotic at the 3 because it's where he's most suited to play. I don't think people here realize quite what has happened over the last few games. Mirotic is a small forward here on out with Thibs. It's all about the defensive end. He's one of the handful of best defenders in the league at the 3 while he's just average, because of his length at power forward. Threes can't handle his strength, length and speed. I think this was most evident in the Celtics game. Jae Crowder was lighting Tony Snell up and when Mirotic came in it was over. (Not to mention Jeff Green going 4-18 and Trevor Ariza going 3-11.)

Mirotic will improve his handling skills over time, but he doesn't need to change as much as people think on offense to play small forward. Rudy Gay has made a career of it. A lot of the offensive development will be team orientated too. His teammates will learn how to work him out of the post better as time goes on.

I think eventually Niko could excel at either positions and do see the advantages of being huge (as a lineup), but I think it is a pretty big stretch that Thibs now envisions Niko as his future 3. As a 4 his offensive abilities are game changing and add a dimension the Bulls have never had at the 4 spot. As he naturally fills out and continues on a NBA weight lifting regiment, I think his strength will be perfectly fine for a big. The fact that he is already a plus defensive rebounder is huge and a testament to his ability to bang with NBA bigs. Maybe he'll be like Bird and start as a 4, but play lots of minutes at the 3.

edit - I also think Niko's length is fine for a big. Nothing great, but I think he has shown the potential to be a pretty decent rim protector.

Is my memory failing me (very likely the case), or is this inaccurate? The way I remember it, Bird started at SF. Went like this:

PG - DJ
SG - Ainge
SF - Bird
PF - McHale
C - Parrish

I could be wrong as this was a bit before I really started watching basketball, but I thought Bird started at the 4 and then played lots of his minutes at the 3 with a big front court of him, McHale and Parish. I've always thought McHale was sorta known for mostly coming off the bench even though he is one of the best offensive bigs of all time.

edit - After reading through Kevin McHale's wikipedia page it looks like we are both somewhat correct. Mchale did win 2 6th man of the year awards, but it sounds like he did enter the starting lineup and possibly stayed their after an injury to Cedric Maxwell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_McHale_%28basketball%29