Time To End The Hinrich Era. - MERGED

[jax98]

Here's a fun fact: Since February 8th, the Bulls have won ONE game in which Kirk has played.

They're 1-3 with him, 5-0 without him.

10-2 on the season when he doesn't play. And that's not a coincidence. He looks absolutely awful out there. He quite simply can't, physically, overcome quick guards or opponents with strength (Harden torched him, but was shut down by Jimmy), he can't shoot, his dribble is wildly inconsistent and he doesn't even make sound passes more.

This idea that his defense is somehow still sound and he is in some way a positive asset is 100% nostalgia.

And no, his minute amount isn't his fault. It's Thibs's. But still. Kirk is done. Like, way done. My uncle grilling chickens done. And that man can't cook to save his life.

[Concept Coop]

Kirk on the floor for his lack of bad plays, rather than his production. The idea is that--while he's on the floor--the offense comes from elsewhere and the system does it's job on the defensive end. Thibs can trust Kirk to be where he needs to be, manage clock, not take bad shots, know when to foul, etc. All coaches do this.

And he's only averaging over 25 minutes due to injuries and minute restrictions.

[Concept Coop]

Harden torched him, but was shut down by Jimmy

Jimmy got Harden the first time; Harden torched Jimmy the 2nd.

Kirk is our 5th guard right now. How many teams have a better 5th guard?

[TheSuzerain]

Kirk on the floor for his lack of bad plays, rather than his production. The idea is that--while he's on the floor--the offense comes from elsewhere and the system does it's job on the defensive end. Thibs can trust Kirk to be where he needs to be, manage clock, not take bad shots, know when to foul, etc. All coaches do this.

And he's only averaging over 25 minutes due to injuries and minute restrictions.

At some point, the historically terrible production speaks for itself.

All Kirk can be trusted to do is make fans yearn for the days when we complained about Keith Bogans.

[jax98]

Thibs can trust Kirk to be where he needs to be, manage clock, not take bad shots, know when to foul, etc.

He can? That's news to me, because last time I checked Kirk wasn't taking good shots, nor does he manage the clock very well. Hell, I haven't even seen a rookie make a similar move:

[jax98]

Jimmy got Harden the first time; Harden torched Jimmy the 2nd.

Kirk is our 5th guard right now. How many teams have a better 5th guard?

About 29?

[TheSuzerain]

Thibs can trust Kirk to be where he needs to be, manage clock, not take bad shots, know when to foul, etc.

He can? That's news to me, because last time I checked Kirk wasn't taking good shots, nor does he manage the clock very well. Hell, I haven't even seen a rookie make a similar move:

Thibs would have ran onto the court and tackled McDermott if he made that play.

[Axl Rose]

Kirk on the floor for his lack of bad plays, rather than his production. The idea is that--while he's on the floor--the offense comes from elsewhere and the system does it's job on the defensive end. Thibs can trust Kirk to be where he needs to be, manage clock, not take bad shots, know when to foul, etc. All coaches do this.

And he's only averaging over 25 minutes due to injuries and minute restrictions.

[Concept Coop]

Kirk on the floor for his lack of bad plays, rather than his production. The idea is that--while he's on the floor--the offense comes from elsewhere and the system does it's job on the defensive end. Thibs can trust Kirk to be where he needs to be, manage clock, not take bad shots, know when to foul, etc. All coaches do this.

And he's only averaging over 25 minutes due to injuries and minute restrictions.

At some point, the historically terrible production speaks for itself.

All Kirk can be trusted to do is make fans yearn for the days when we complained about Keith Bogans.

He's the 5th guard. Compare his production to that of other 5th guards forced into extended minutes due to injury/minute restrictions.

Snell was even worse for much of the year. Now that he's playing better, he's replaced Kirk in the pecking order. All of this crying is moot.

[Concept Coop]

Jimmy got Harden the first time; Harden torched Jimmy the 2nd.

Kirk is our 5th guard right now. How many teams have a better 5th guard?

About 29?

We can't even have a real conversation about it on this board. I might as well be posting on ESPN.

[TheSuzerain]

Kirk on the floor for his lack of bad plays, rather than his production. The idea is that--while he's on the floor--the offense comes from elsewhere and the system does it's job on the defensive end. Thibs can trust Kirk to be where he needs to be, manage clock, not take bad shots, know when to foul, etc. All coaches do this.

And he's only averaging over 25 minutes due to injuries and minute restrictions.

At some point, the historically terrible production speaks for itself.

All Kirk can be trusted to do is make fans yearn for the days when we complained about Keith Bogans.

He's the 5th guard. Compare his production to that of other 5th guards forced into extended minutes due to injury/minute restrictions.

Snell was even worse for much of the year. Now that he's playing better, he's replaced Kirk in the pecking order. All of this crying is moot.

The "Hinrich is the 5th guard" narrative is nice but not too accurate.

Hinrich has averaged over 20 minutes every month of the season. Injuries have exacerbated the situation but have not caused it outright.

[Concept Coop]

Thibs can trust Kirk to be where he needs to be, manage clock, not take bad shots, know when to foul, etc.

He can? That's news to me, because last time I checked Kirk wasn't taking good shots, nor does he manage the clock very well. Hell, I haven't even seen a rookie make a similar move:

What bad shots is Kirk taking? And examples of him not managing the clock well?

And one play--as bad as it was--doesn't define a player, even over the span of a single season.

[DanTown8587]

Kirk on the floor for his lack of bad plays, rather than his production. The idea is that--while he's on the floor--the offense comes from elsewhere and the system does it's job on the defensive end. Thibs can trust Kirk to be where he needs to be, manage clock, not take bad shots, know when to foul, etc. All coaches do this.

And he's only averaging over 25 minutes due to injuries and minute restrictions.

At some point, the historically terrible production speaks for itself.

All Kirk can be trusted to do is make fans yearn for the days when we complained about Keith Bogans.

He's the 5th guard. Compare his production to that of other 5th guards forced into extended minutes due to injury/minute restrictions.

Snell was even worse for much of the year. Now that he's playing better, he's replaced Kirk in the pecking order. All of this crying is moot.

I'll buy the argument that he's still able to play 10-15 minutes as a backup PG. There is zero reason to say he's a better two guard than anyone else on the roster. He can't shoot and he's not athletic so I don't care how good your defense is, if you're out there just murdering the offense because teams don't guard you, it doesn't help you long term.

Him playing 17 minutes last night because Brooks was trash is one thing'; playing him minutes at the 2 over either Snell, Moore, Dunleavy, McDermott, or Mirotic is borderline criminal.

[musiqsoulchild]

Another Kirk Hinrich bash.

Carry on...looks like you guys will not learn. Karma is a real thing.

The OP of this thread wished that Kirk's toe should be amputated. Well, now both our starting PG and starting SG are sitting for 6 weeks and the grand old man of the Chicago Bulls will hold the fort until they get back.

[Concept Coop]

At some point, the historically terrible production speaks for itself.

All Kirk can be trusted to do is make fans yearn for the days when we complained about Keith Bogans.

He's the 5th guard. Compare his production to that of other 5th guards forced into extended minutes due to injury/minute restrictions.

Snell was even worse for much of the year. Now that he's playing better, he's replaced Kirk in the pecking order. All of this crying is moot.

The "Hinrich is the 5th guard" narrative is nice but not too accurate.

Hinrich has averaged over 20 minutes every month of the season. Injuries have exacerbated the situation but have not caused it outright.

Derrick/Jimmy
Brooks/Snell
Kirk

That's 4 guys ahead of Kirk.

Kirk was ahead of Brooks and Thibs corrected it once the play dictated it. Kirk was ahead of Snell (who was awful most of the year) and Thibs corrected in once the play dictated it.

[TheSuzerain]

Thibs can trust Kirk to be where he needs to be, manage clock, not take bad shots, know when to foul, etc.

He can? That's news to me, because last time I checked Kirk wasn't taking good shots, nor does he manage the clock very well. Hell, I haven't even seen a rookie make a similar move:

What bad shots is Kirk taking? And examples of him not managing the clock well?

And one play--as bad as it was--doesn't define a player, even over the span of a single season.

What good shots is Hinrich taking? His TS% is under 46% despite being utterly ignored off ball.

[blumeany]

Kirk on the floor for his lack of bad plays, rather than his production. The idea is that--while he's on the floor--the offense comes from elsewhere and the system does it's job on the defensive end. Thibs can trust Kirk to be where he needs to be, manage clock, not take bad shots, know when to foul, etc. All coaches do this.

And he's only averaging over 25 minutes due to injuries and minute restrictions.

[DuckIII]

This thread is redundant of multiple other threads. Not that I disagree Hinrich is playing like crap.

[jax98]

What bad shots is Kirk taking?

Kirk's average shooting distance over the last three seasons is 17.8 feet. 38% of his total shots come from beyond 16 feet, meaning long two's. So 38% of the times he shoots, he takes one of the lowest percentage shots in basketball. In fact, the shot area from him inside the three-point line, and away from the basket, looks like this:



Right inside the three-point line, ladies and gentlemen!

Another heavy chunk of his shots are coming from outside the three-point line where he shoots 31.9% - quite significantly below league average. Only guy worse on the with comparable volume is Rose, who flat-out stinks from long-range. Yet, he takes close to three a game.

And examples of him not managing the clock well?

Eye-test. He overdribbles and passes it off too late in the clock. He's done that since about 2007. If you haven't noticed that, I don't know what to say.

And one play--as bad as it was--doesn't define a player, even over the span of a single season.

You're right. So to make up for that one play: A 2:1 assist-to-turnover ratio! For a veteran point guard who isn't asked to score nor be a high-volume facilitator. Honestly. That ratio is sickening.

[TheSuzerain]

This thread may seem redundant with the post game, but I do think it is important to establish that not only has Kirk been poor, he is having a historically awful season. I gathered the data to prove that in the OP.