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The 4th big catch 22

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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#61 » by Mech Engineer » Mon Mar 2, 2015 11:16 pm

It is an arms race kind of thing. I hope the Bulls draft a big...sort of a Nurkic for the future to go with Mirotic and keep all 4 bigs.

Look at Portland. ...they had Batum, Matthews, Lillard and decent backups but still went after Affalo. It is just dumb to ignore the injury aspect or a possible bad season from a highly paid player.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#62 » by Rerisen » Mon Mar 2, 2015 11:38 pm

Mark K wrote:If they were just to run 3 bigs, that may be the final nail in the 'Thibodeau in CHI' coffin.


Don't see why. Its a pretty big reach and bizarre statement to say Thibs, or any team, needs 4 bigs paid over 5 million dollars.

Last year we overachieved greatly and 3 bigs (Noah, Taj, Boozer) played about 95% of all the big minutes.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#63 » by kingkirk » Mon Mar 2, 2015 11:53 pm

Rerisen wrote:Don't see why. Its a pretty big reach and bizarre statement to say Thibs, or any team, needs 4 bigs paid over 5 million dollars.

Last year we overachieved greatly and 3 bigs (Noah, Taj, Boozer) played about 95% of all the big minutes.


It's not about having 4 bigs earning some arbitrary figure. It's about Thibodeau having depth at his disposal, as he did in 2011 & 2012.

We had a great season last season, but our lack of depth up front hurt us in the playoffs.

Washington used 4 bigs and their 3rd big (Booker) was more influential than ours, whilst also having Nene outplaying Noah.

If we had another big worth a damn at our disposal, mayb that series looks different?

We're also that playing as slow or locked in defensively as we were last season.

Under Thibodeau, our best results have come when he has has 4 quality bigs.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#64 » by ADDinChicago » Tue Mar 3, 2015 12:03 am

TheSuzerain wrote:I think it's fairly obvious Taj is going to be moved.

He plays the same position as Niko, his contract is movable, and there should be a market for him.


I think it's always been the inevitable when they paid Mirotic to leave Spain. Gotta free up cap money and the log jam at the 4. The Bulls' big issue on the front court is lacking depth at the 5 now as well.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#65 » by Rerisen » Tue Mar 3, 2015 12:08 am

Mark K wrote:
Rerisen wrote:Don't see why. Its a pretty big reach and bizarre statement to say Thibs, or any team, needs 4 bigs paid over 5 million dollars.

Last year we overachieved greatly and 3 bigs (Noah, Taj, Boozer) played about 95% of all the big minutes.


It's not about having 4 bigs earning some arbitrary figure. It's about Thibodeau having depth at his disposal, as he did in 2011 & 2012.

We had a great season last season, but our lack of depth up front hurt us in the playoffs.

Washington used 4 bigs and their 3rd big (Booker) was more influential than ours, whilst also having Nene outplaying Noah.

If we had another big worth a damn at our disposal, mayb that series looks different?

We're also that playing as slow or locked in defensively as we were last season.

Under Thibodeau, our best results have come when he has has 4 quality bigs.


What good is more depth at the coach's disposal if he never uses it short of injury? None of the hype about the frontcourt has proven true this year. DeAndre Jordan just emasculated our entire frontcourt last game by himself. And that's happened over and over this year with worse players than him.

As long as you understand you are sacrificing somewhere else for this luxury. For me its not even a contest, a better starting SF/SG is clearly more valuable than a 4th big. And I'm not gambling on Doug or Tony Snell as my only options next year for the right to have the luxury to play one of the bigs a lowly 13 minutes a game.

Our 4th big, Mirotic, has rarely ever had impactful games this year when operating as the actual 4th big. The Bulls could have easily had a veteran big in that spot making around 2m, taking those 10-13 minutes and hardly hit the team's strength at all.

While a better starter or high minute rotation player helps you all 82 games, every night, not just when there's an injury.

A team's style is predicated on its personnel not on its coach. Tom Thibodeau doesn't have to coach an inside/out team. They didn't have that in Boston. Good coaches coach to their talent. Just like Popovich moved away from a plodding inside out attack once Duncan got old, and his talent moved to the wings and guards.

And that's where our talent *should* be moving. We have no elite post players to play this way, Gasol isn't one anymore. If you upgrade the perimeter, then just maybe we can enter the modern era like the rest of the NBA.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#66 » by coldfish » Tue Mar 3, 2015 12:21 am

Rerisen wrote:
Mark K wrote:
Rerisen wrote:Don't see why. Its a pretty big reach and bizarre statement to say Thibs, or any team, needs 4 bigs paid over 5 million dollars.

Last year we overachieved greatly and 3 bigs (Noah, Taj, Boozer) played about 95% of all the big minutes.


It's not about having 4 bigs earning some arbitrary figure. It's about Thibodeau having depth at his disposal, as he did in 2011 & 2012.

We had a great season last season, but our lack of depth up front hurt us in the playoffs.

Washington used 4 bigs and their 3rd big (Booker) was more influential than ours, whilst also having Nene outplaying Noah.

If we had another big worth a damn at our disposal, mayb that series looks different?

We're also that playing as slow or locked in defensively as we were last season.

Under Thibodeau, our best results have come when he has has 4 quality bigs.


As long as you understand you are sacrificing somewhere else for that luxury. For me its not even a contest, a better starting SF/SG is clearly more valuable than a 4th big. And I'm not gambling on Doug or Tony Snell as my only options next year for the right to have the luxury to play one of the bigs a lowly 13 minutes a game.

What good is more depth at the coach's disposal if he never uses it short of injury? None of the hype about the frontcourt has proven true this year. DeAndre Jordan just emasculated our entire frontcourt last game by himself. And that's happened over and over this year with worse players than him.

Our 4th big, Mirotic, has rarely ever had impactful games this year when operating as the actual 4th big. The Bulls could have easily had a veteran big in that spot making around 2m, taking those 10-13 minutes and hardly hit the team's strength at all.


Just have to note two things:
- Mirotic is a rookie and has rookie issues, which limits his impact and the amount that Thibs will play him.
- You continue to ignore the fact that the 4th big on the Bulls is going to be the 3rd big on most nights. Even in the playoffs.

And you also have the issue with back up PG, which is significantly bigger than the 4th big. Even more so, a back up PG can play significant minutes every night and next to Rose alleviate any issue on the wing. If someone wants to make an issue out of the 4th big, they should start by pointing out the obvious fact that back up PG is a higher priority than 4th big.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#67 » by Rerisen » Tue Mar 3, 2015 12:25 am

coldfish wrote:Just have to note two things:
- Mirotic is a rookie and has rookie issues, which limits his impact and the amount that Thibs will play him.


He won't be a rookie next year. And if you think he's still not ready for primetime then, well then they should not have given a rookie a 5-6m/yr contract like a #1 pick if he can't even be a backup in the rotation by year 2. Just dumb salary allocation for a contending team.

- You continue to ignore the fact that the 4th big on the Bulls is going to be the 3rd big on most nights. Even in the playoffs.


What does this mean, we have a big injured most games? Because we don't, despite a season full of injuries and purposely resting bigs extra games at times, our bigs have missed a combined 25 games.

I'd still rather have a better starting wing for all 60 games we've played this year than the luxury to play a better 4th big 25 minutes in those 25 games someone was hurt.

If they were smart, they'd go after a 3/4 wing like Harris or Deng was, to help spell the bigs in games one might be hurt. This solution is obvious by Thibs trying to shoehorn Mirotic at SF so much, but he hasn't even fully learned PF yet, so you need a more experienced guy to do that.

And you also have the issue with back up PG, which is significantly bigger than the 4th big. Even more so, a back up PG can play significant minutes every night and next to Rose alleviate any issue on the wing. If someone wants to make an issue out of the 4th big, they should start by pointing out the obvious fact that back up PG is a higher priority than 4th big.


The 2nd wing and backup PG are both more important than the 4th big.

But not every backup G is going to work in sliding Derrick over to the 2. There is a limit to how many minutes a game, and which matchups, that is viable for. So it doesn't solve the guard and wing situation just to sign a backup PG.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#68 » by kingkirk » Tue Mar 3, 2015 12:35 am

Rerisen wrote:What good is more depth at the coach's disposal if he never uses it short of injury? None of the hype about the frontcourt has proven true this year. DeAndre Jordan just emasculated our entire frontcourt last game by himself. And that's happened over and over this year with worse players than him.

As long as you understand you are sacrificing somewhere else for this luxury. For me its not even a contest, a better starting SF/SG is clearly more valuable than a 4th big. And I'm not gambling on Doug or Tony Snell as my only options next year for the right to have the luxury to play one of the bigs a lowly 13 minutes a game.

Our 4th big, Mirotic, has rarely ever had impactful games this year when operating as the actual 4th big. The Bulls could have easily had a veteran big in that spot making around 2m, taking those 10-13 minutes and hardly hit the team's strength at all.

While a better starter or high minute rotation player helps you all 82 games, every night, not just when there's an injury.

A team's style is predicated on its personnel not on its coach. Tom Thibodeau doesn't have to coach an inside/out team. They didn't have that in Boston. Good coaches coach to their talent. Just like Popovich moved away from a plodding inside out attack once Duncan got old, and his talent moved to the wings and guards.

And that's where our talent *should* be moving. We have no elite post players to play this way, Gasol isn't one anymore. If you upgrade the perimeter, then just maybe we can enter the modern era like the rest of the NBA.


So if guys like Jordan are already murdering our ‘loaded’ front court, how does shifting one of them for a wing improve that at all?

See, I don’t consider it a luxury. I consider it a necessity. Noah and Gibson have shown this season that they cannot stay healthy. Mirotic has proven he is too inconsistent to regularly handle being a 3rd big. We’ve been lucky that Gasol has barely missed time, which hasn’t been the case over his previous 2 seasons.

Again, if we were the Phoenix Suns or some other team that employed more small ball line ups, the need for front court depth wouldn’t be as required. That’s not the case though.

Thibodeau traditionally will always play 2 big men. The only time he skews away from that is when he has to out of injury/fouls, like we saw the other game against the Wolves with Gasol sick, Taj injured and Niko fouling.

If he is always rolling out big men to play the 4 and 5, we’re always going to have spacing issues and we’re always going to have a heavy reliance of our big men.

It’s a our strength and our weakness.

If you want to change this methodology, you change the roster. If you the team stills want to roll with size up front, then prioritising our bigs is the obvious move.

Memphis are doing the exact same thing. That’s the way they want to build their team. They see competitive advantage in that and the organisation has built their team under that model. Are they wrong in doing so?

The Bulls issue is Derrick Rose, his injury and contracts.

We can create a million topics about our cap issues, with different agendas taking threads different ways, but if we were getting value for money from Rose right now, we’re not having these discussions. We’d be atop of the East and ready to win the East.

Yes, we have weaknesses on the wings, of which the FO is betting on Snell & McDermott to fill in due course.

That said, this proposed weakness, which all teams have, is mitigated greatly if Derrick Rose were producing at a level that justified his 18m.

He isn’t, we wear that burden and our weaknesses are magnified. You can try and shift the contracts around to get more support on the wing, but you’re simply opening up another weakness elsewhere.

Again, as I’ve said before, this team is a player away. It has been since the off season.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#69 » by Rerisen » Tue Mar 3, 2015 12:35 am

The Bulls are already overpaying Derrick Rose by at least 10 million dollars a year and yet people are just unconcerned about carrying another 6 million just for injury insurance. Sorry, but every dollar is critical to getting enough balance and talent on the floor to cancel out Rose's overpay. We just don't have the money and resources to allocate to injury prevention. If we get major injuries the team isn't winning anyway. You build for your ceiling not to protect your floor if you are trying to contend.

Then on top of the above constraints is the reality that the Bulls history is of a conservative spending team that is reluctant to ever go into the lux tax, or much into it. With that truth, its absolutely nutty to try and build a championship team with about 15 million dollars spent wastefully.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#70 » by Rerisen » Tue Mar 3, 2015 12:44 am

Mark K wrote:So if guys like Jordan are already murdering our ‘loaded’ front court, how does shifting one of them for a wing improve that at all?


Doesn't improve it, doesn't hurt it much either. Because it's not 'loaded' at all, its redundant and wasteful.

Going from 4 pricey bigs to 3 doesn't make you get murdered any more. The 4th big is not protecting us from being lit up in any of these games, because the 4th big is usually sitting on the bench doing nothing.

See, I don’t consider it a luxury. I consider it a necessity. Noah and Gibson have shown this season that they cannot stay healthy. Mirotic has proven he is too inconsistent to regularly handle being a 3rd big. We’ve been lucky that Gasol has barely missed time, which hasn’t been the case over his previous 2 seasons.


Yes, Gasol was a ill fitting signing. And his injury risk on top of Noah forcing us to keep a high priced 4th big will just continue to hold back the rest of the roster for 2 more years if we overly fret on it.

Again, if we were the Phoenix Suns or some other team that employed more small ball line ups, the need for front court depth wouldn’t be as required. That’s not the case though.


Maybe we should become more that kind of team? Our bigs don't win small ball matchups most of the time anyway, because Noah is a throwaway player to guard.

It's not like we are Washington where if you have one slack defense big, we can punish you.

And our own small ball options to match up are garbage because of the way we are built.

Thibodeau traditionally will always play 2 big men. The only time he skews away from that is when he has to out of injury/fouls, like we saw the other game against the Wolves with Gasol sick, Taj injured and Niko fouling.


You have to give the coach a good reason to go smaller, we don't have the talent.

If we had brought in a Tobias Harris, then maybe we would start having more options.

Memphis are doing the exact same thing. That’s the way they want to build their team. They see competitive advantage in that and the organisation has built their team under that model. Are they wrong in doing so?


Like Washington, Memphis has two scoring bigs, Marc and Zbo, both have to be accounted for. They are a mismatch nightmare, we are not. We have Gasol, a jump shooting big at this point in his career (at least where he's efficient) then Noah, who is no threat down low on his own and mostly facilitates from the FT line.

Gibson and Mirotic being around does not change this dynamic. We still aren't a load to handle in the paint even with all 4 bigs.

The Bulls issue is Derrick Rose, his injury and contracts.


No, the Bulls *biggest* issue is Derrick Rose. As I've already said he's about 10m overpaid at minimum.

And precisely because he is is the reason we can't afford to throw 5.5 more million on a 4th big that is inconsequential in over 50% of our games, while we have crap depth behind Butler and Rose.

Yes, we have weaknesses on the wings, of which the FO is betting on Snell & McDermott to fill in due course.


They bet on that this year, and its already failed once. Even though Snell is coming a little finally, that only negates Dunleavy being out, and now Butler is injured.

That just shows you, trying to guess where you have injuries is a fool's errand. This year we've needed depth on the wing as much as with the bigs, but don't have it. So your best bet is just build the most balanced team you can.

Again, as I’ve said before, this team is a player away. It has been since the off season.


Outside of Derrick Rose's health, the reason the team is still a player away is because it signed a duplicating productive big in Gasol when it already had Gibson, and it hardly made the team stronger, because one of our big offseason acquisitions (Mirotic) is mostly a non-factor now, and whenever he's given a chance to play big minutes, he looks perfectly capable of being a rotation player, but isn't allowed to be.

Is he 100% as good as Gibson? Maybe not. Doesn't matter. The downgrade from Taj to Mirotic isn't nearly as big as the upgrade gap in getting even an NBA average wing to help replace the 35-50 minutes of poo-poo platter that has been Kirk, Doug, Snell (early on), Moore, and even at times, Brooks and Dunleavy.

It's overlooked that Brooks and Dunleavy have had their own share of crappy games, despite being decent the rest of the time. If you had another depth option on the perimeter, it would also give you the ability to negate some of the bad games from those two, even beyond replacing the net negative garbage minutes of the other players mentioned.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#71 » by Rerisen » Tue Mar 3, 2015 12:55 am

BTW, the Bulls plan wouldn't be 'going down to 3 bigs' next year. That would be a strawman argument that you only have 3 bigs.

You find a 4th that is better than Nazr - who has always been a bit of a joke - but less than Taj or Niko.

A Jason Smith, Elton Brand, Tyler Hansborough quality big. This still leaves you 5 or 6m to put with Dunleavy's 3m and vastly upgrade the perimeter depth.

You could also draft a young big to bring along.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#72 » by kingkirk » Tue Mar 3, 2015 1:20 am

Rerisen wrote:Post.


I’m not going to quote it all as it’s long and detailed, and we simply are never going to agree.

What you’re asking for is for the Bulls to completely change their basketball philosophy. That is not something that is easily done.

Dealing a big for a wing sounds nice and easy on a message board, but these guys have in their minds how they want to build a ball club, be it right or wrong, that is up for debate.

I honestly believe you need to take into consideration who we have in the FO and who we have as coach.

Trading Gibson for Afflalo or any other incarnation does not make this team a better ball club. It’s a lateral move. I don’t know why people can’t see that.

If the Bulls did not have 4 bigs at their disposal this season, and instead moved Gibson in order to give minutes to Mirotic and to have more depth on the wing, I am extremely confident that any chances of winning a title would dissipate extremely quickly.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#73 » by kingkirk » Tue Mar 3, 2015 1:22 am

Rerisen wrote:BTW, the Bulls plan wouldn't be 'going down to 3 bigs' next year. That would be a strawman argument that you only have 3 bigs.

You find a 4th that is better than Nazr - who has always been a bit of a joke - but less than Taj or Niko.

A Jason Smith, Elton Brand, Tyler Hansborough quality big. This still leaves you 5 or 6m to put with Dunleavy's 3m and vastly upgrade the perimeter depth.

You could also draft a young big to bring along.


Where is this 8-9m in exceptions/cap space coming from next season?
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#74 » by Rerisen » Tue Mar 3, 2015 1:23 am

Mark K wrote:What you’re asking for is for the Bulls to completely change their basketball philosophy. That is not something that is easily done.


How is say trading Taj Gibson changing your philosophy? It's not like we milk Taj in the post anyway, unless we have loads of injuries, and usually Rose out.

What if Mirotic becomes clearly better than Taj next year, then Taj just becomes the guy playing 15 mpg? What a waste that would be at 8.5 million dollars. Of course Thibs would never do that to Taj, but don't mean he shouldn't if Mirotic improves to a certain level.

Dealing a big for a wing sounds nice and easy on a message board, but these guys have in their minds how they want to build a ball club, be it right or wrong, that is up for debate.


Again, I don't believe the team is built like this on purpose at all. To me it looks like a classic case of "The FO did x, so I must defend x."

Others, like you and Mech think it was done on purpose. You guys seem to think whatever happens this playoffs, we'll be carrying 4 bigs into next year.

I'm say more than 50% odds are against that happening. I guess we'll see in the summer.

Trading Gibson for Afflalo or any other incarnation does not make this team a better ball club. It’s a lateral move. I don’t know why people can’t see that.

If the Bulls did not have 4 bigs at their disposal this season, and instead moved Gibson in order to give minutes to Mirotic and to have more depth on the wing, I am extremely confident that any chances of winning a title would dissipate extremely quickly.


Could people please stop talking about Aaron Afflalo? The Bulls cannot trade for Aaron Afflalo the deadline is over. We are discussing next year now. Which will be year 2 of Mirotic, and Mike Dunleavy being 35 years old. The same arguments of the deadline do not apply.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#75 » by Rerisen » Tue Mar 3, 2015 1:24 am

Mark K wrote:
Rerisen wrote:BTW, the Bulls plan wouldn't be 'going down to 3 bigs' next year. That would be a strawman argument that you only have 3 bigs.

You find a 4th that is better than Nazr - who has always been a bit of a joke - but less than Taj or Niko.

A Jason Smith, Elton Brand, Tyler Hansborough quality big. This still leaves you 5 or 6m to put with Dunleavy's 3m and vastly upgrade the perimeter depth.

You could also draft a young big to bring along.


Where is this 8-9m in exceptions/cap space coming from next season?


We will have the MMLE there's your 4th big.

And you can trade Taj Gibson for a relatively same sized contract. And there's your 7-9m wing.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#76 » by the ultimates » Tue Mar 3, 2015 1:28 am

With the injury history of Gasol Gibson and Noah you needed at decent fourth big. Mirotic not playing more minutes isn't because too much money was spent on the front court its because Thibs has issues with minutes management and his "circle of trust". Some players no matter how bad they play seem to stay in it for life (Hinrich). Others can only get a chance when their are major injuries to players. It's not a shock Snell has looked like a solid rotation player when actually given rotation minutes. The same thing happened to Butler when Deng went down with injury two seasons ago. Mirotic has looked fine whenever he has gotten continuous minutes at his natural position of power forward. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if McDermott looks good given proper rotation minutes. That is a Thibs issue not a roster balance issue.

The other thing that needs to stop is people trying to convince themselves Gasol was bad signing. Gasol has been the second healthiest of the bigs and overall easily the best player between them. Gibson doesn't give you the scoring Gasol does even if you use his per 36 numbers from this season or last season. It's clear getting Gasol has been better than Anthony or Stephenson.
Losing to get high draft picks and hoping they turn into franchise players is not some next level, genius move. That's what teams want to happen in any rebuild/tank or whatever you want to market it as.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#77 » by Rerisen » Tue Mar 3, 2015 1:33 am

the ultimates wrote:With the injury history of Gasol Gibson and Noah you needed at decent fourth big.


But what defines a 'decent' 4th big?

To me a 'decent' 4th big doesn't have to cost 8.5 million dollars.

Tyler Hansborough has a career 14.8 PER, .520 TS% and makes just 3m dollars.

To me that is a decent big that is fine to play 12 to 17 minutes a night. If someone is hurt, then he'll have to play 25-27 and that game will be hard to win, but you can't try to win a championship by building a roster that you think will still win a title with a starting big out. Its wack.

But if we could find a 4th big like above and take the 5m savings and move it to a better starter or quality perimeter guy, we could get a lot better.

When you are a contending team you cannot just pencil in some totally unproven rookie like Doug McDermott to be a 20+ minute rotation player. We have seen the folly of doing that this year.

And nor do I think has Tony even shown enough to pencil him for a 30 minute starter next year.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#78 » by kingkirk » Tue Mar 3, 2015 1:33 am

Rerisen wrote:Again, I don't believe the team is built like this on purpose at all. To me it looks like a classic case of "The FO did x, so I must defend x."

Others, like you and Mech think it was done on purpose. You guys seem to think whatever happens this playoffs, we'll be carrying 4 bigs into next year.

I'm say more than 50% odds are against that happening. I guess we'll see in the summer.


Option 1 was Melo. That failed.

Option 2 was always Gasol, they got him. At that point, they new Mirotic was coming over.

They built this roster being more than happy to carry for bigs. If that wasn't the case, one of them would have been moved.


Could people please stop talking about Aaron Afflalo? The Bulls cannot trade for Aaron Afflalo the deadline is over. We are discussing next year now. Which will be year 2 of Mirotic, and Mike Dunleavy being 35 years old. The same arguments of the deadline do not apply.


Notice how I said Afflalo or any other incarnation. It was an example to suggest that trading for a wing player of that calibre for Gibson would be unwise.
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#79 » by kingkirk » Tue Mar 3, 2015 1:36 am

Rerisen wrote:We will have the MMLE there's your 4th big.

And you can trade Taj Gibson for a relatively same sized contract. And there's your 7-9m wing.


So, we only have 3.3m available to us, with the MMLE.

The 7-9m is nothing more than a hope at this point. A wing who can fill the void you want needs to be earning that, whilst being available.

We still then have the issue of the back up PG...
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Re: The 4th big catch 22 

Post#80 » by Rerisen » Tue Mar 3, 2015 1:40 am

Mark K wrote:Option 1 was Melo. That failed.

Option 2 was always Gasol, they got him. At that point, they new Mirotic was coming over.

They built this roster being more than happy to carry for bigs. If that wasn't the case, one of them would have been moved.


It sounded like option 1 was Gasol *and* Melo, according to Pau's slip of words the presser. And probably Gibson being moved.

And by the time Melo said no, Gasol was already locked up as part of the lure to bring him.

The team had invested a lot into Mirotic, I don't think they wanted to trade him, even though the timing of his being forced to sign this year seemed very inconvenient.

But again, we won't know till the summer for sure.

I don't know how anyone can look at this year and see resounding success though or reason to keep it all the same. The roster *might* have made sense if Rose got all the way back.

He didn't come close, then got hurt again. It's really past time to start building some redundancy into the team concerning the skills Rose provided. And stop building a roster than has a hole in certain areas the size of Texas, and for the team to make sense it requires Rose coming back and being 100% to fill that hole. Which is exactly what you are advocating if you want to stand pat in the summer and just bring it all back the same.

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