Do you want Thibs fired and replaced?

[coldfish]

Anyone wanting to take stock in a Knicks game when NY was on a B2B and they themselves weren't playing hard, I don't know what to tell you. Chicago had that game in hand for three quarters and it was never really threatened. Everyone in the building, on the floor knew that. You can't start yelling at guys to play harder in games you win by 30.

Regarding the team and a switch, I believe it's there if only because of how many veterans on the team are here. Outside of Snell and Mirotic (the only guys who are playing and running hard consistently on the floor), everyone else has vast experience of what they need body wise to win in the playoffs.

Obviously that Detroit game sticks out but the Bulls last six games (i.e word leaked about Derrick being closer, Jimmy/Taj coming back to practice)
5-1
+73
All wins by at least 12 points

You take away the last 18 minutes of the Pistons game and what complaints do people have about the last two weeks?

Just to note, I have been saying that the Bulls have been playing super-lazy all year. Obviously Rerisen and a few others disagree. What I am doing is starting to point out specific examples. While I agree that NY was not a high intensity game, that kind of stuff has been going on all season but particularly against poor to mediocre opponents. Chicago has taken "playing down to your opponents level" to a new art form this year and its cost them nearly 10 losses against teams way below 0.500.

This gets back mostly to the rebounding and defense. Many here believe that the defense is limited based on personnel. I really don't see that to be the case. What I see is a bunch of guys blatantly ignoring coach instructions all season long. Some people don't seem to believe me so instead of just saying it, I'm going to start calling out specific plays where it happens.

[Ice Man]

I'm going to start calling out specific plays where it happens.

Like that nationally televised Sunday game when Jo & Taj walked down the court rather than chase the play, permitting the opponents (OKC? Phoenix?) to have about 4 chances at the layup against the lone Bulls defenders?

Those are two Bulls veteran with a reputation of always playing hard -- that's what the national analysts tell us, every single game -- who have given anything but consistent effort this year. A LOT of jogging from them.

Although less so recently, I think. Well at least from Taj, he's been bouncing around since his return.

[DanTown8587]

Anyone wanting to take stock in a Knicks game when NY was on a B2B and they themselves weren't playing hard, I don't know what to tell you. Chicago had that game in hand for three quarters and it was never really threatened. Everyone in the building, on the floor knew that. You can't start yelling at guys to play harder in games you win by 30.

Regarding the team and a switch, I believe it's there if only because of how many veterans on the team are here. Outside of Snell and Mirotic (the only guys who are playing and running hard consistently on the floor), everyone else has vast experience of what they need body wise to win in the playoffs.

Obviously that Detroit game sticks out but the Bulls last six games (i.e word leaked about Derrick being closer, Jimmy/Taj coming back to practice)
5-1
+73
All wins by at least 12 points

You take away the last 18 minutes of the Pistons game and what complaints do people have about the last two weeks?

Just to note, I have been saying that the Bulls have been playing super-lazy all year. Obviously Rerisen and a few others disagree. What I am doing is starting to point out specific examples. While I agree that NY was not a high intensity game, that kind of stuff has been going on all season but particularly against poor to mediocre opponents. Chicago has taken "playing down to your opponents level" to a new art form this year and its cost them nearly 10 losses against teams way below 0.500.

This gets back mostly to the rebounding and defense. Many here believe that the defense is limited based on personnel. I really don't see that to be the case. What I see is a bunch of guys blatantly ignoring coach instructions all season long. Some people don't seem to believe me so instead of just saying it, I'm going to start calling out specific plays where it happens.

Again, most teams that are built like Chicago can't play Thibs way for 82 games then have something left in the tank. Also, you can't ask a guy like Jimmy Butler to be the main perimeter offensive weapon AND run out on shooters AND play heavy minutes, there simply isn't the energy there. Do you know that Jimmy leads the NBA in distance run per game by a wide wide margin? That even missing as many games as he has, he's still 20th in the league in total distance? It's very easy to point out specific possessions and say "see, the effort isn't there". That's typically true of any NBA team in any NBA game.

The natural lull that happened a month ago was Jimmy was supposed to miss 4-6 and Derrick was an unknown so of course the team naturally dropped, it's human nature. But since JB came back to practice after the OKC game, the Bulls have absolutely been a different team. Outside of the last 18 minutes of the Pistons game, their last six games have been great on both sides of the ball. You can point to individual possessions as "SEE, THEY'VE QUIT ON THIBS". I'll just look at the scoreboard at the end of the night. Or watch them in the last six-eight minutes of close games (like Toronto or Charlotte). Look at the 2nd halves lately

Chicago @ Toronto: 63-49 (39-21 in the 4th)
Charlotte @ Chicago: 38-50
Indiana @ Chicago: 35-52

They're CLEARLY a switch team, especially now that they have Niko in the rotation and they have offensive talent on the floor for 48 minutes. I think the biggest concern isn't if Derrick comes back; it's if Derrick comes back and decides he wants a ton of control because this group's balance is what makes them dangerous.

[coldfish]

Again, most teams that are built like Chicago can't play Thibs way for 82 games then have something left in the tank. Also, you can't ask a guy like Jimmy Butler to be the main perimeter offensive weapon AND run out on shooters AND play heavy minutes, there simply isn't the energy there. Do you know that Jimmy leads the NBA in distance run per game by a wide wide margin? That even missing as many games as he has, he's still 20th in the league in total distance? It's very easy to point out specific possessions and say "see, the effort isn't there". That's typically true of any NBA team in any NBA game.

The natural lull that happened a month ago was Jimmy was supposed to miss 4-6 and Derrick was an unknown so of course the team naturally dropped, it's human nature. But since JB came back to practice after the OKC game, the Bulls have absolutely been a different team. Outside of the last 18 minutes of the Pistons game, their last six games have been great on both sides of the ball. You can point to individual possessions as "SEE, THEY'VE QUIT ON THIBS". I'll just look at the scoreboard at the end of the night. Or watch them in the last six-eight minutes of close games (like Toronto or Charlotte). Look at the 2nd halves lately

Chicago @ Toronto: 63-49 (39-21 in the 4th)
Charlotte @ Chicago: 38-50
Indiana @ Chicago: 35-52

They're CLEARLY a switch team, especially now that they have Niko in the rotation and they have offensive talent on the floor for 48 minutes. I think the biggest concern isn't if Derrick comes back; it's if Derrick comes back and decides he wants a ton of control because this group's balance is what makes them dangerous.

In the past, the Bulls most certainly played just about the hardest in the NBA and that's not normal. I'm not disputing this.

What I dispute is the idea that the Bulls are now playing at normal NBA energy levels. Even now they aren't. That Toronto game where the Bulls won comfortably in the 4th featured just an incredible amount of defensive breakdowns due to low energy. In game after game, the Bulls get outworked. From what I have seen, the Bulls have gone from the hardest working team in the NBA to bottom 5.

As has been being discussed, the Bulls rank poorly in a lot of hustle stats. There is just absolutely no explanation for Chicago being in the bottom half of the league for defensive rebounding percentage outside of absurdly lazy play. I have the general observation, specific examples and stats to back me up on this.

This matters for a number of discussions:
- The Bulls don't just have an extra gear, they have like an extra 3 gears. The problem is that when you play this lazily all year long, its hard to go full out.
- The talk about Chicago not having the personnel to have a good defense is bunk. If they just executed the defense at normal NBA energy levels they would be top 10. Probably top 5.
- There is no issue with the base schemes as some people have said. The issue is that players are blatantly not doing the schemes.
- All of this is taking into account the fact that Gasol simply can't move his feet quickly and that Hinrich isn't the player he used to be. Even with those factors the Bulls could and should be very good on defense and rebounding.
- The fact that the team has taken their games so low is an indication of them not really caring for Thibodeau or caring to do what he asks of them.

[Fl_Flash]

I'm somewhat with Coldfish on this one.

This edition of the Bulls have been half-assing it for the entire season. It may be a case of the team simply refusing to execute the defense. I see it as more of the team being lazy for long stretches of the game. Guys are slow (or simply don't) rotate. The communication doesn't seem to be there - especially early in the season. The trademark of a Thibs-led defence is to deny the middle of the floor. Always send them baseline. Less floor to guard and it's easier to rebound also. This season I've seen more guard penetration into the middle of the floor than I've ever seem under Thibs. That's guys being lazy and not paying hard. I can understand it though.

The great teams do have an extra gear they use for the playoffs. The intensity gets upped in the playoffs - especially as the rounds progress. Teams have to match that intensity. The great ones do.

My biggest complaint these last few years (aside from the constant injuries) is that the Bulls not only didn't have that extra gear, they blew the transmission during the season. We had undertalented, hard working teams. They won games by simply outworking the opponent and wanting it more. You'll win regular season games that way but won't have anything extra/left for the playoffs.

Now the shoe is on the other foot and we're the team being outworked. Doesn't feel too good.

I'll be curious to see how this team elevates their game during the playoffs. I've got a feeling it'll be inconsistent. They haven't had enough time together and they haven't developed that ability to execute at 80%, up it to 100% for 8 to 12 minutes and put a team away and then coast to the end of the game. It's like they played for three plus quarters at 60 or 70% effort and then realize they better turn it up - often too late.

Gonna be an interesting post-season. Here's hoping for a fairly long run!

[DanTown8587]

Again, most teams that are built like Chicago can't play Thibs way for 82 games then have something left in the tank. Also, you can't ask a guy like Jimmy Butler to be the main perimeter offensive weapon AND run out on shooters AND play heavy minutes, there simply isn't the energy there. Do you know that Jimmy leads the NBA in distance run per game by a wide wide margin? That even missing as many games as he has, he's still 20th in the league in total distance? It's very easy to point out specific possessions and say "see, the effort isn't there". That's typically true of any NBA team in any NBA game.

The natural lull that happened a month ago was Jimmy was supposed to miss 4-6 and Derrick was an unknown so of course the team naturally dropped, it's human nature. But since JB came back to practice after the OKC game, the Bulls have absolutely been a different team. Outside of the last 18 minutes of the Pistons game, their last six games have been great on both sides of the ball. You can point to individual possessions as "SEE, THEY'VE QUIT ON THIBS". I'll just look at the scoreboard at the end of the night. Or watch them in the last six-eight minutes of close games (like Toronto or Charlotte). Look at the 2nd halves lately

Chicago @ Toronto: 63-49 (39-21 in the 4th)
Charlotte @ Chicago: 38-50
Indiana @ Chicago: 35-52

They're CLEARLY a switch team, especially now that they have Niko in the rotation and they have offensive talent on the floor for 48 minutes. I think the biggest concern isn't if Derrick comes back; it's if Derrick comes back and decides he wants a ton of control because this group's balance is what makes them dangerous.

In the past, the Bulls most certainly played just about the hardest in the NBA and that's not normal. I'm not disputing this.

What I dispute is the idea that the Bulls are now playing at normal NBA energy levels. Even now they aren't. That Toronto game where the Bulls won comfortably in the 4th featured just an incredible amount of defensive breakdowns due to low energy. In game after game, the Bulls get outworked. From what I have seen, the Bulls have gone from the hardest working team in the NBA to bottom 5.

Overall over the course of a game? I'm not sure, I'm simply saying in the last 10 minutes of games, the Bulls work just as hard as any NBA team. Do they lull the first 36 minutes? Sure, most veteran teams do that.

As has been being discussed, the Bulls rank poorly in a lot of hustle stats. There is just absolutely no explanation for Chicago being in the bottom half of the league for defensive rebounding percentage outside of absurdly lazy play. I have the general observation, specific examples and stats to back me up on this.

This matters for a number of discussions:
- The Bulls don't just have an extra gear, they have like an extra 3 gears. The problem is that when you play this lazily all year long, its hard to go full out.
- The talk about Chicago not having the personnel to have a good defense is bunk. If they just executed the defense at normal NBA energy levels they would be top 10. Probably top 5.
- There is no issue with the base schemes as some people have said. The issue is that players are blatantly not doing the schemes.
- All of this is taking into account the fact that Gasol simply can't move his feet quickly and that Hinrich isn't the player he used to be. Even with those factors the Bulls could and should be very good on defense and rebounding.
- The fact that the team has taken their games so low is an indication of them not really caring for Thibodeau or caring to do what he asks of them.

The Bulls know what they have to do because everyone outside of Snell and Mirotic have been doing it for years. Thibs can yell and yell and yell at these guys but what's Thibs going to do? Taj has a bum ankle, Noah a bum knee, Gasol and Kirk and Dunleavy are 34, JB runs more than anyone in the NBA. None of these guys are going to go out and play hard for 48 minutes; it's just not possible to ask them to do that. But when they have to give you that final push, they show you that it's there.

I'm not worried this team has quit because teams that quit don't stranglehold playoff teams on their home floor like the Bulls did to Toronto. The Detroit game is what happens to a switch team when it's the third game in four nights: that switch doesn't flip. I'll be concerned when they're not playing hard in the fourth quarter. I think people have asked for this type of team for the past three years and now it's here. Thibs is smartly not coming out and complaining about it because this team won't respond to the whip.

[mj234eva]

What I see is a bunch of guys blatantly ignoring coach instructions all season long. Some people don't seem to believe me so instead of just saying it, I'm going to start calling out specific plays where it happens.

The first sentence is bull ****. As for the 2nd sentence, if you going to call out the plays where you believe the players are "ignoring" the coach, please also call out the plays where players did what you believe the coach wants them to do.

[Rerisen]

I kind of see an excuse being setup for if the Bulls lose, and especially lose badly, in the playoffs. What Detroit fans used to use embarrassingly and routinely for the old Ben Wallace Pistons after 04, "We were really the best, but we just didn't bring it this year."

I think this team has shown in closing out teams and mostly for full games vs top teams, they can play all out when they want to prove a point. And the playoffs is the ultimate point to prove. If we lose its not going to be because they aren't trying, nor trying to make a statement about firing Thibs. Players don't throw a year of their career away in the post-season to get rid of a coach. Gasol came here specifically to compete for a few more titles while maintaining a big role (that he wouldn't have in OKC and SA). And the rest of the players have had their hopes dashed for 3 straight years due to Derrick, and others, injuries. Last year the FO jumped on their back too, ditching Deng halfway through the year.

This team is full of players that are convinced this is the year for them to win, or certainly their best shot in the last 5 years. They may have coasted at points within the year, or within specific games, but I think they are all chomping at the bit to show what they can do in the playoffs. And that's probably a good bit what they were easing up off the gas pedal for, the playoffs, to make it there and still have some energy left, perhaps unlike past years.

Now maybe the strategy will backfire, because like Thibs has said, you want to build those good habits as best you can during the year. But even if we had wanted to, the injuries and lack of cohesion with practice time would have prevented a very good job of that happening.

Assuming Thibs closes with Mirotic, good chance that closing unit with him and Derrick won't even have 5 games together finishing by the time the playoffs roll around. There was no preparation we could have done to avoid that either. The Bulls are in for a severe test of their ability to play team ball and build instant chemistry in one week.

[coldfish]

What I see is a bunch of guys blatantly ignoring coach instructions all season long. Some people don't seem to believe me so instead of just saying it, I'm going to start calling out specific plays where it happens.

The first sentence is bull ****. As for the 2nd sentence, if you going to call out the plays where you believe the players are "ignoring" the coach, please also call out the plays where players did what you believe the coach wants them to do.

The first sentence is true. The number of times that a guy doesn't rotate out on a shooter this year is tremendous. The Bulls used to do what they were told to do maybe 80% of the time. It seems like it is less than 20% now. You also have issues with interior rotations, boxing out, pick and roll positioning, etc. I'm not getting into the offense because truthfully, I'm not sure what Thibs is telling them game to game there. I do know the defense well. From an execution standpoint, this year has been mindblowingly bad.

[coldfish]

I kind of see an excuse being setup for if the Bulls lose, and especially lose badly, in the playoffs. What Detroit fans used to use embarrassingly and routinely for the old Ben Wallace Pistons after 04, "We were really the best, but we just didn't bring it this year."

I think this team has shown in closing out teams and mostly for full games vs top teams, they can play all out when they want to prove a point. And the playoffs is the ultimate point to prove. If we lose its not going to be because they aren't trying, nor trying to make a statement about firing Thibs. Players don't throw a year of their career away in the post-season to get rid of a coach. Gasol came here specifically to compete for a few more titles while maintaining a big role (that he wouldn't have in OKC and SA). And the rest of the players have had their hopes dashed for 3 straight years due to Derrick, and others, injuries. Last year the FO jumped on their back too, ditching Deng halfway through the year.

This team is full of players that are convinced this is the year for them to win, or certainly their best shot in the last 5 years. They may have coasted at points within the year, or within specific games, but I think they are all chomping at the bit to show what they can do in the playoffs. And that's probably a good bit what they were easing up off the gas pedal for, the playoffs, to make it there and still have some energy left, perhaps unlike past years.

Now maybe the strategy will backfire, because like Thibs has said, you want to build those good habits as best you can during the year. But even if we had wanted to, the injuries and lack of cohesion with practice time would have prevented a very good job of that happening.

Assuming Thibs closes with Mirotic, good chance that closing unit with him and Derrick won't even have 5 games together finishing by the time the playoffs roll around. There was no preparation we could have done to avoid that either. The Bulls are in for a severe test of their ability to play team ball and build instant chemistry in one week.

Well, as you note, the excuses are already built in. Rose's injuries, his recovery and the severe lack of time to work together is a ready made excuse for poor execution.

That said, the defense and effort thing shouldn't be some debateable issue. Thibodeau's defense is a dance and a relatively simple one at that. Its blatantly obvious when someone isn't doing their steps right and why. If the Bulls lose, anyone who has watched the team with some level of interest and understanding is able to tell instantly if the players are executing, trying to execute but unable or not even trying. This year has featured a tremendous amount of "not even trying" and if that continues in the playoffs, the team will lose rather quickly and Thibs will be fired.

[mj234eva]

What I see is a bunch of guys blatantly ignoring coach instructions all season long. Some people don't seem to believe me so instead of just saying it, I'm going to start calling out specific plays where it happens.

The first sentence is bull ****. As for the 2nd sentence, if you going to call out the plays where you believe the players are "ignoring" the coach, please also call out the plays where players did what you believe the coach wants them to do.

The first sentence is true. The number of times that a guy doesn't rotate out on a shooter this year is tremendous. The Bulls used to do what they were told to do maybe 80% of the time. It seems like it is less than 20% now. You also have issues with interior rotations, boxing out, pick and roll positioning, etc. I'm not getting into the offense because truthfully, I'm not sure what Thibs is telling them game to game there. I do know the defense well. From an execution standpoint, this year has been mindblowingly bad.

If you mean, it's your opinion that it is true, okay. I'll give you that.

Somehow the Bulls are 4th in opponent 3P%. They also allow the 3rd fewest. They are also 3rd in opponent eFG%. And they are 3rd in opponent FT/FGA.

Are there some bad defensive stats? Sure, they give up too many offensive rebounds. They are 29th in steals, and last in opponent TOV%. But to make the claim that the reason some of these numbers are what they are, is because they are "blatantly ignoring" the coach? That's a stretch, but it fits the narrative you've been trying to drive all season.

[Rerisen]

Likewise MJ above, we just aren't seeing the stats to back up the terrible effort.

Opponent TS%

2014: 101.1
2015: 101.5

Virtually no change. That per possession efficiency is 3rd in the league. If we aren't closing out way more, missing rotations way more, why isn't it resulting in the opponents scoring worse *per possession*. It doesn't follow logically that this lack of effort would only be showing up in defensive rebounding and turnovers. Because the breakdowns would also be leading to better shooting %s.

And we haven't gained any significant defensive talent. Certainly not with the health issues. Brooks is running the show over half the game and he is god awful on defense, Noah has been obviously under 100%, and Gibson has been hurt on/off and has his minutes way down. Butler has missed a lot of games now and his own defensive effort lags at times due to his offensive burden. We might be lucky to be getting as many stops as we are.

[coldfish]

The first sentence is bull ****. As for the 2nd sentence, if you going to call out the plays where you believe the players are "ignoring" the coach, please also call out the plays where players did what you believe the coach wants them to do.

The first sentence is true. The number of times that a guy doesn't rotate out on a shooter this year is tremendous. The Bulls used to do what they were told to do maybe 80% of the time. It seems like it is less than 20% now. You also have issues with interior rotations, boxing out, pick and roll positioning, etc. I'm not getting into the offense because truthfully, I'm not sure what Thibs is telling them game to game there. I do know the defense well. From an execution standpoint, this year has been mindblowingly bad.

If you mean, it's your opinion that it is true, okay. I'll give you that.

Somehow the Bulls are 4th in opponent 3P%. They also allow the 3rd fewest. They are also 3rd in opponent eFG%. And they are 3rd in opponent FT/FGA.

Are there some bad defensive stats? Sure, they give up too many offensive rebounds. They are 29th in steals, and last in opponent TOV%. But to make the claim that the reason some of these numbers are what they are, is because they are "blatantly ignoring" the coach? That's a stretch, but it fits the narrative you've been trying to drive all season.

Its not a narrative I'm driving. I don't have some agenda here. Its not like I want Thibodeau gone. I'm just reporting what I see. Quite frankly, I think that the people who disagree are the ones with the agenda driven narratives:
- The team just isn't put together well
- Pau Gasol is a bad signing
- Certain players suck
- Rose can't be questioned
etc. etc. Saying that the team could be good if they did their jobs blows up a lot of people's beliefs.

I just can't believe that after 5 years of it, people here don't know Thibs' defense by heart and can't immediately tell when a player doesn't execute it and why.

[Ice Man]

It takes one hell of an offense to concede a TS% of 101 and make the playoffs.

[Rerisen]

Well, as you note, the excuses are already built in. Rose's injuries, his recovery and the severe lack of time to work together is a ready made excuse for poor execution.

Difference is those would be understandable and legit, and therefore, not fair to blame/fire Thibs for.

[McBulls]

Part of the problem is that for many games the starters were asked to play heavy minutes, even in back-to-back games and blowouts.

Recently, Noah made the mistake of explaining the team's poor play as being due to being tired. He was rewarded for his honesty by being sat out the next game.
It is not necessary to play Butler 38 minutes immediately after he comes back from injury.
It is never necessary to ask Pau to play 38 mpg except in the playoffs.
It shouldn't be necessary for the FO to order minute limitations for Noah and Rose.
Thibs had talented reserves to back up all of these players and his answer was to play Hinrich 30 mpg.
Finally, it is ridiculous to wait until starters are injured before giving talented young players a chance to play in the regular season.
-- waiting til March to let a Euro MVP play hurt the rookie AND the team -- unnecessarily.
-- sitting the Bulls lottery pick SF on the bench for the entire regular season is equally obtuse.
-- and terrifying Snell into passivity was just plain bad coaching.


So you have a thin skinned, bully assistant coach in the head coach position who yells himself hoarse on the sidelines micromanaging floor spacing and pics while ignoring telltale signs of exhaustion from overplayed 34 yo veterans and necessary changes in strategy dictated by opposing team success.

The big picture is that the Bulls have consistently limped into the playoffs with starters who were injured by being overplayed and over exerted in the regular season since Thibs came on the scene. Young, promising players like Asik, Butler, Snell, Mirotic and Doug were brought along at glacial speeds.

This year the vets took a cue from Rose and dogged it instead of driving themselves to injury before the postseason. Look for similar behavior next year if Thibs is still coach.

[Rerisen]

It takes one hell of an offense to concede a TS% of 101 and make the playoffs.

Hah, divide by 2 for a more traditional version (50.7). I'm not sure why, but that's the way the site lists it.

[coldfish]

Likewise MJ above, we just aren't seeing the stats to back up the terrible effort.

Opponent TS%

2014: 101.1
2015: 101.5

Virtually no change. That per possession efficiency is 3rd in the league. If we aren't closing out way more, missing rotations way more, why isn't it resulting in the opponents scoring worse *per possession*. It doesn't follow logically that this lack of effort would only be showing up in defensive rebounding and turnovers. Because the breakdowns would also be leading to better shooting %s.

And we haven't gained any significant defensive talent. Certainly not with the health issues. Brooks is running the show over half the game and he is god awful on defense, Noah has been obviously under 100%, and Gibson has been hurt on/off and has his minutes way down. Butler has missed a lot of games now and his own defensive effort lags at times due to his offensive burden. We might be lucky to be getting as many stops as we are.

The defensive rebounding% and tov stuff disagrees. Bulls went from 15th in the NBA last year to dead last this year. That's a hustle stat. Regardless, people really shouldn't be evaluating a team based on watching box scores.

The Bulls have upgraded several areas on defense. Boozer really was flat out awful. DJ was really bad. Gasol really is better than Boozer by a good bit and ostensibly, Rose should be an upgrade at the point. Snell is now a significantly better wing defender than he was last year and that gives TT two guys who should be quality defenders on the wing, which he did not have last year.

If the Bulls had given 2011 type effort with 2011 type health, this would have been their best team for both defense and overall. They aren't and the coach is going to be held accountable for both (right or wrong).

[mj234eva]

Its not a narrative I'm driving. I don't have some agenda here. Its not like I want Thibodeau gone. I'm just reporting what I see. Quite frankly, I think that the people who disagree are the ones with the agenda driven narratives:

Maybe, that's the problem. Ever think about that? Look for bad, see bad, and make the claim that it's all bad.

[Rerisen]

The defensive rebounding% and tov stuff disagrees. Bulls went from 15th in the NBA last year to dead last this year. That's a hustle stat. Regardless, people really shouldn't be evaluating a team based on watching box scores.

It could very well be a case of expectations coloring perception. Last year we were an underdog team and I doubt anyone was counting botched assignments as a reason for the team not living up to its promise, because we were well surpassing expectations then.

I think we agree the team isn't playing as hard as the last 3 years, we just disagree on the relative difference, and the reasons.

The Bulls have upgraded several areas on defense. Boozer really was flat out awful. DJ was really bad. Gasol really is better than Boozer by a good bit and ostensibly, Rose should be an upgrade at the point. Snell is now a significantly better wing defender than he was last year and that gives TT two guys who should be quality defenders on the wing, which he did not have last year.

If the Bulls had given 2011 type effort with 2011 type health, this would have been their best team for both defense and overall. They aren't and the coach is going to be held accountable for both (right or wrong).

That is best case scenario though, which didn't come to pass. Gasol is better than Boozer, but his Def impact is probably worse, since he plays center. Noah impacts less at PF than Center, and on top is not nearly as good/healthy as last year just individually.

DJ was not worse than Aaron, wash at worst.

Rose should be an upgrade when he gets back yes, but he's missed 1/3 the season and when he was here obviously wasn't focusing on defense. You might say its because he's tuning Thibs out, I say its because his head and entire game was severely messed up as he was preoccupied with trying to figure out and failing how to be the same player, or as effective, on offense, without the same athleticism. Maybe he didn't trust cutting on the knee too, or was saving himself for the playoffs. Heck, BJ and Reggie probably told him to do that, I sincerely doubt he would be going all out on defense if our coach this year was Fred Hoiberg, or anyone for that matter.