Knicks making #4 pick "very available"

[AirP.]

Rose + Bulls 1st for Carmelo. Melo has knee problems too, is older and on a much longer even more expensive deal.

I'm not sold on Rose at all. I think Melo and Niko are a perfect fit at the forwards. they can interchange defensively and Melo is a strong enough SF to help rebound and defend with Niko being pretty weak at this point.

Dump Noah and they can sign a ~$10M PG if Butler waits to sign his max extension and his cap hold is low.

Rose gets you Melo and assets. Melo on the Knicks doesn't make any sense basketball wise, they don't have a good team around him, he's too old to waste what good years he has left and by the time they rebuild he'll be a shell of his former self eating up too much of the cap. If the Knicks were to move Melo and assets for Rose they'd get a guy in his prime(although coming off injuries so who knows what his new prime really is) and have only 2 years left on his contract, at worst the Knicks could trade him as a big expiring contract to get a few pieces on their roster. With Melo his value drops each year and who knows what his value is with his contract coupled with his age and his recent knee problems.

Not really sure why they maxed Melo out except for a reason to still go see games. Rebuilding wise it really didn't make much sense. Shumpert was a better piece moving forward then Melo for the future of the franchise.

[MikeYi30430]

I think some of you are way off on what it would take to get #4. Phil wants to rebuild this in a hurry, and he wants to fill the Garden with zen vibes of a deep, unselfish, veteran team like he played on there. IF Noah's knee checks out, he will be a very interesting option for NY. I have heard Monroe to NY is pretty much a done deal. He is a good high post shooter and passer, but not a leaper or rim defender. I think a trade of Joakim and Taj for #4 gets it done. Then Phil can sign a shooter or two and trot out a lineup of:

Joakim Noah, Cole Aldrich
Monroe, Taj Gibson, Quincy Acy
Carmello Anthony, Cleanthony Early
(fa) Danny Green, Hardaway Jr, Thanasis Antetokounmpo
Caulderon, Larkin

If the Bulls want to remake their identity, this is a great chance to add some fresh young talent. Russell, Winslow, and Hezonja all crack our lineup early.

Holy **** are you serious? People need to start getting temp bans for trolling or something. This is the most ridiculous serious trade idea I've seen all season.

First of all Jo isn't an asset he's a salary dump that you have to convince teams to take. People are looking at Jo like he's something teams want. He isn't period. He hasn't looked good all year and there's nothing that suggests that next year hell revert to his play from 2 years ago pre surgery.

With that in mind I think a sign and trade on both sides gets it done.

Carmelo Anthony
S&T Tyson Chandler @ 5/10/15
Langston Galloway
Knicks 4th Pick (Mudiay if you're not insane)
S&T Bargnani Vet Min 1.5


for

S&T Jimmy Butler @ 15/16/17/18/19
Joakhim Noah
Bulls 22nd
Kings 2016 Pick
Filler

You're losing a young all star but you gain an older wing all star and a potential all star in Mudiay that could replace D. Rose if necessary. At worst a great trade chip. You also get rid of Jo and gain an athletic center who can play much better defense.

Basically this solves a ton of problems for both teams. The Bulls have a much better defensive anchor who's also an offensive threat off lobs. Basically a lot better than Jo. They also gain a star next to Rose at the wing in Melo and they move Snell to the starting line up at the SG spot. Off the bench they have Langston and Mudiay both plus defenders (especially Langston) who could probably start in 2 years. Mudiay is a lot like Rose and John Wall. You also get Bargnani at the vet min. He can play away from the basket and Taj can play closer to it. This is a big help on the spacing front.

D. Rose/Langston Galloway
Tony Snell/Emannuel Mudiay
Carmelo Anthony/Nikola Mirotic
Pau Gasol/Taj Gibson
Tyson Chandler/A. Bargnani

You've got McBuckets somewhere in there too.

Your front court avg age is over 30 but on short term contracts.
Your backcourt avg age is way under 30 and actually very young.

You have decent spacing, multiple options, and when the cap explodes you can add more to fill whatever holes you need. In a few years you won't have many older people on contract and a **** ton of cap space with a great young core + Melo who's game isn't based off of athleticism.

Thoughts?

[kodo]

Not really sure why they maxed Melo out except for a reason to still go see games. Rebuilding wise it really didn't make much sense. Shumpert was a better piece moving forward then Melo for the future of the franchise.

They weren't rebuilding. Phil said multiple times he was competing...he literally thought he was building a playoff team.

There's a good chance they'll trade the pick for an established vet and get back to "competing".

[SpinninHouse]

I remember some people saying sell high on Noah while you still can, so there were definitely some people who saw this coming.

I called for Jo to be traded last year. I wrote, "a year from now, most of you will agree with me." Not because I saw Jo's poor 2015 coming, but on general principle. There's no better time to get a great deal than selling a 29 year-old player with an injury history who just had a career year.

Agreed. I also called for him to be traded last summer, and was ridiculed. I agreed with your general principle reasons and also had an additional reason - I wanted to trade him for a high draft pick to a team willing to send back little or no salary. We would have got a high lottery pick AND a lot more cap space to sign other good players.

Last year at this time I would have strongly been against trading Joakim Noah. Clearly - I was wrong. We could have gotten a huge haul for him and now we'll be lucky to find anybody willing to take him for nothing.

In fairness, part of Noah's prolific decline has been exasperated by Thibs continuing to give him entilement minutes -- despite him sucking so bad. I think if we have a new coach with an objective set of eyes - he'll hopefully put Noah on the bench where he belongs.

While we might not have a championship roster, we should improve simply by having a less psychopathic coach and not playing our bad players so much.

Although I would say I'd have pretty limited interest in the #4 pick. With Russell, Towns, and Okafor off the board, the #4 pick doesn't hold huge value to me. I like some of the lottery prospects (Winslow, Stanley Johnson, and Dekker) and think they'd fit well along side Rose and Butler. But we don't have the pieces to strike a deal.

We moved up to get McDermott last year and gave up two first rounders for him. We need him to be a big part of the team next year. When you give up two first rounder picks for a guy - he should be an All-Star caliber player.

[ADDinChicago]

Rose + Bulls 1st for Carmelo. Melo has knee problems too, is older and on a much longer even more expensive deal.

I'm not sold on Rose at all. I think Melo and Niko are a perfect fit at the forwards. they can interchange defensively and Melo is a strong enough SF to help rebound and defend with Niko being pretty weak at this point.

Dump Noah and they can sign a ~$10M PG if Butler waits to sign his max extension and his cap hold is low.

Rose gets you Melo and assets. Melo on the Knicks doesn't make any sense basketball wise, they don't have a good team around him, he's too old to waste what good years he has left and by the time they rebuild he'll be a shell of his former self eating up too much of the cap. If the Knicks were to move Melo and assets for Rose they'd get a guy in his prime(although coming off injuries so who knows what his new prime really is) and have only 2 years left on his contract, at worst the Knicks could trade him as a big expiring contract to get a few pieces on their roster. With Melo his value drops each year and who knows what his value is with his contract coupled with his age and his recent knee problems.

Not really sure why they maxed Melo out except for a reason to still go see games. Rebuilding wise it really didn't make much sense. Shumpert was a better piece moving forward then Melo for the future of the franchise.

They re-signed Melo because they could and didn't want to do a full rebuild. They have a ton of cap space starting this summer. They think they can get other players to come because it's New York. Much like the Bulls think they can draw elite talent because of who they are. Also, James Dolan adores Carmelo Anthony and they can't afford to gut the team. You need actual stars to win NBA titles now. Have to start with 1 to get more.

[AirP.]

They re-signed Melo because they could and didn't want to do a full rebuild. They have a ton of cap space starting this summer. They think they can get other players to come because it's New York. Much like the Bulls think they can draw elite talent because of who they are. Also, James Dolan adores Carmelo Anthony and they can't afford to gut the team. You need actual stars to win NBA titles now. Have to start with 1 to get more.

Maybe, or maybe it's all talk? Of course Phil wants to hear everyone's offers for the #4 pick. For teams that want the #1 or #2 pick, they may need to own a pick like the #4 to put in a trade package.

[aaqubed]

I think some of you are way off on what it would take to get #4. Phil wants to rebuild this in a hurry, and he wants to fill the Garden with zen vibes of a deep, unselfish, veteran team like he played on there. IF Noah's knee checks out, he will be a very interesting option for NY. I have heard Monroe to NY is pretty much a done deal. He is a good high post shooter and passer, but not a leaper or rim defender. I think a trade of Joakim and Taj for #4 gets it done. Then Phil can sign a shooter or two and trot out a lineup of:

Joakim Noah, Cole Aldrich
Monroe, Taj Gibson, Quincy Acy
Carmello Anthony, Cleanthony Early
(fa) Danny Green, Hardaway Jr, Thanasis Antetokounmpo
Caulderon, Larkin

If the Bulls want to remake their identity, this is a great chance to add some fresh young talent. Russell, Winslow, and Hezonja all crack our lineup early.

Holy **** are you serious? People need to start getting temp bans for trolling or something. This is the most ridiculous serious trade idea I've seen all season.

First of all Jo isn't an asset he's a salary dump that you have to convince teams to take. People are looking at Jo like he's something teams want. He isn't period. He hasn't looked good all year and there's nothing that suggests that next year hell revert to his play from 2 years ago pre surgery.

With that in mind I think a sign and trade on both sides gets it done.

Carmelo Anthony
S&T Tyson Chandler @ 5/10/15
Langston Galloway
Knicks 4th Pick (Mudiay if you're not insane)
S&T Bargnani Vet Min 1.5


for

S&T Jimmy Butler @ 15/16/17/18/19
Joakhim Noah
Bulls 22nd
Kings 2016 Pick
Filler

You're losing a young all star but you gain an older wing all star and a potential all star in Mudiay that could replace D. Rose if necessary. At worst a great trade chip. You also get rid of Jo and gain an athletic center who can play much better defense.

Basically this solves a ton of problems for both teams. The Bulls have a much better defensive anchor who's also an offensive threat off lobs. Basically a lot better than Jo. They also gain a star next to Rose at the wing in Melo and they move Snell to the starting line up at the SG spot. Off the bench they have Langston and Mudiay both plus defenders (especially Langston) who could probably start in 2 years. Mudiay is a lot like Rose and John Wall. You also get Bargnani at the vet min. He can play away from the basket and Taj can play closer to it. This is a big help on the spacing front.

D. Rose/Langston Galloway
Tony Snell/Emannuel Mudiay
Carmelo Anthony/Nikola Mirotic
Pau Gasol/Taj Gibson
Tyson Chandler/A. Bargnani

You've got McBuckets somewhere in there too.

Your front court avg age is over 30 but on short term contracts.
Your backcourt avg age is way under 30 and actually very young.

You have decent spacing, multiple options, and when the cap explodes you can add more to fill whatever holes you need. In a few years you won't have many older people on contract and a **** ton of cap space with a great young core + Melo who's game isn't based off of athleticism.

Thoughts?

Tyson Chandler cannot be signed and traded by the Knicks since he was on the Mavs this year. And even if he could, a "5/10/15" deal is not allowed by the CBA -- you can't start with $5M on year and have a 100% raise. The maximum raises for a S&T is 4.5% of the first year's salary.

Beyond that, the Bulls are just not going to trade Butler, they're going to build around him.

[ADDinChicago]

They re-signed Melo because they could and didn't want to do a full rebuild. They have a ton of cap space starting this summer. They think they can get other players to come because it's New York. Much like the Bulls think they can draw elite talent because of who they are. Also, James Dolan adores Carmelo Anthony and they can't afford to gut the team. You need actual stars to win NBA titles now. Have to start with 1 to get more.

Maybe, or maybe it's all talk? Of course Phil wants to hear everyone's offers for the #4 pick. For teams that want the #1 or #2 pick, they may need to own a pick like the #4 to put in a trade package.

Sure. But I don't see how that pertains to anything I said. You said they only re-signed Melo to sell tickets, which was hardly the case.

[AirP.]

They re-signed Melo because they could and didn't want to do a full rebuild. They have a ton of cap space starting this summer. They think they can get other players to come because it's New York. Much like the Bulls think they can draw elite talent because of who they are. Also, James Dolan adores Carmelo Anthony and they can't afford to gut the team. You need actual stars to win NBA titles now. Have to start with 1 to get more.

Maybe, or maybe it's all talk? Of course Phil wants to hear everyone's offers for the #4 pick. For teams that want the #1 or #2 pick, they may need to own a pick like the #4 to put in a trade package.

Sure. But I don't see how that pertains to anything I said. You said they only re-signed Melo to sell tickets, which was hardly the case.

Ok... it's highly unrealistic to think they'll get the best free agents to sign in New York quickly to make retaining Melo worth it for them. What's the window for Melo? Will he be a dominate player at age 34 or just a good one being paid as a superstar? I just don't see how someone like Phil Jackson can believe they'll reload in 1 or 2 off seasons to a championship level so I think what he's saying is... BS.

[kingkirk]

Don't be unrealistic. Will need to include the Sacto pick, which won't happen because of our stupid FO. If Towns goes on to be elite, I'm going to be soooooo pissed. I mean, why hang onto the Sacto pick when you can get a superstar? I can't believe how Towns became a superstar and we didn't trade for him because our conservative FO wouldn't include the Sacto pick. Just look at what he's doing for the Wolves! Matt Lloyd wouldn't have been so dumb. God!

You're right. I was being unrealistic. Lloyd himself would have found a way to get both Towns & Russell with the 1st overall pick. A 2 for 1 deal. Success via demand pooling. Smart operator. If only we still had him now. Maybe we draft Gary Harris and his 4.9 PER instead of McDermott. The possibilities...

[ADDinChicago]

Maybe, or maybe it's all talk? Of course Phil wants to hear everyone's offers for the #4 pick. For teams that want the #1 or #2 pick, they may need to own a pick like the #4 to put in a trade package.

Sure. But I don't see how that pertains to anything I said. You said they only re-signed Melo to sell tickets, which was hardly the case.

Ok... it's highly unrealistic to think they'll get the best free agents to sign in New York quickly to make retaining Melo worth it for them. What's the window for Melo? Will he be a dominate player at age 34 or just a good one being paid as a superstar? I just don't see how someone like Phil Jackson can believe they'll reload in 1 or 2 off seasons to a championship level so I think what he's saying is... BS.

And again, I agree with that sentiment. I think Phil's screwed regardless because of James Dolan and the hole he's put that franchise in. It's just hard to say "no" when someone offers your $12 mil to fix his mess. That's why I said they think players will sign there because it's NY, much like the Bulls think they'll land elite talent. It's arrogance and they couldn't be more wrong. But teams like the Knicks, Bulls, Lakers, etc. don't and can't do full rebuilds. And what's PJ going to say? "I know this team is awful but I love money"? No. And he also likes a challenge. But as I said the other, thanks to Dolan he'll quit soon enough and they'll put Isaiah Thomas in there again.

I thought Melo at his age was a terrible option for the Bulls. You might get 1 more productive year. The Knicks re-signed him because they had to and they could do so. Maybe they land 1 good player with the cap space to pair with him. I don't see it happening.

[RebuildaBulls]

I dont know why some say knicks will draft a PG in the triangle the PG is mostly just a spot up shooter.

[ADDinChicago]

I dont know why some say knicks will draft a PG in the triangle the PG is mostly just a spot up shooter.

Because it's a weak draft and if they end up still having the pick, they'll take the BPA and either use him or hope to move him down the road. It's most likely going to be Emmanuel Mudiay because it sounds like the Sixers are in love with D'Angelo Russell.

They were the biggest losers (Knicks) at the lottery. They fell out of the top 3 in a 3-horse draft and they preferred to be top 2 to get one of the 2 bigs in Towns or Okafor. Now they're stuck.

[AirP.]

I thought Melo at his age was a terrible option for the Bulls. You might get 1 more productive year. The Knicks re-signed him because they had to and they could do so. Maybe they land 1 good player with the cap space to pair with him. I don't see it happening.

I think you get a dominate player till age 32-33 then you get good scoring option.

For Chicago it made sense, they needed scoring from the wing, they needed a starting SF and they could have had McDermott ready to take over for him in 3 seasons. I think Melo was the "going for it" which absolutely I understand, Noah and Taj just hit 30, MDJ is 34, Butler was just a defensive player and Rose might take a few years to get back to where he was and until then Melo could be the #1 option, Rose #2 and once Rose was "back" those roles could switch while Melo continues to decline.

[ADDinChicago]

I thought Melo at his age was a terrible option for the Bulls. You might get 1 more productive year. The Knicks re-signed him because they had to and they could do so. Maybe they land 1 good player with the cap space to pair with him. I don't see it happening.

I think you get a dominate player till age 32-33 then you get good scoring option.

For Chicago it made sense, they needed scoring from the wing, they needed a starting SF and they could have had McDermott ready to take over for him in 3 seasons. I think Melo was the "going for it" which absolutely I understand, Noah and Taj just hit 30, MDJ is 34, Butler was just a defensive player and Rose might take a few years to get back to where he was and until then Melo could be the #1 option, Rose #2 and once Rose was "back" those roles could switch while Melo continues to decline.

For the Bulls it made sense for 1 or 2 seasons. It destroys the cap and you'd have a 34 year old Melo down the road with an injured Rose. Never mind the fact you wouldn't have Mirotic and Butler would most likely be gone. I'm beyond elated things worked out the way they did for such reasons (and c'mon, Melo was never leaving all that money on the table). Look at the Lakers with an aging Kobe.

And I don't know how Melo can still dominate when he can't stay on the court. He had inflated numbers in NY because they had nothing. Bad teams allow players to fill up a stats sheet. He hasn't been what he was in Denver. He can score. Whoopity do. It's not guaranteed and there's more to winning games.

[RebuildaBulls]

I don't even think Melo is or was ever a 'dominant' player. Hes a smart and great scorer who needs to hold the ball for half of the shot clock but thats about it.
He probably has 2-3 good years left before he declines and I dont think the Knicks can turn it around into a contender that quick. Its possible if free agents go there in droves but I cant see it

For the Bulls it worked out pretty well. They got Gasol, could keep Butler and got to bring over Mirotic. Not sure if Bulls would have won it all with Melo but at least Bulls have some pieces for the future instead of go-for-it all team

[Minalt]

I think some of you are way off on what it would take to get #4. Phil wants to rebuild this in a hurry, and he wants to fill the Garden with zen vibes of a deep, unselfish, veteran team like he played on there. IF Noah's knee checks out, he will be a very interesting option for NY. I have heard Monroe to NY is pretty much a done deal. He is a good high post shooter and passer, but not a leaper or rim defender. I think a trade of Joakim and Taj for #4 gets it done. Then Phil can sign a shooter or two and trot out a lineup of:

Joakim Noah, Cole Aldrich
Monroe, Taj Gibson, Quincy Acy
Carmello Anthony, Cleanthony Early
(fa) Danny Green, Hardaway Jr, Thanasis Antetokounmpo
Caulderon, Larkin

If the Bulls want to remake their identity, this is a great chance to add some fresh young talent. Russell, Winslow, and Hezonja all crack our lineup early.

Holy **** are you serious? People need to start getting temp bans for trolling or something. This is the most ridiculous serious trade idea I've seen all season.

First of all Jo isn't an asset he's a salary dump that you have to convince teams to take. People are looking at Jo like he's something teams want. He isn't period. He hasn't looked good all year and there's nothing that suggests that next year hell revert to his play from 2 years ago pre surgery.

With that in mind I think a sign and trade on both sides gets it done.

Carmelo Anthony
S&T Tyson Chandler @ 5/10/15
Langston Galloway
Knicks 4th Pick (Mudiay if you're not insane)
S&T Bargnani Vet Min 1.5


for

S&T Jimmy Butler @ 15/16/17/18/19
Joakhim Noah
Bulls 22nd
Kings 2016 Pick
Filler

You're losing a young all star but you gain an older wing all star and a potential all star in Mudiay that could replace D. Rose if necessary. At worst a great trade chip. You also get rid of Jo and gain an athletic center who can play much better defense.

Basically this solves a ton of problems for both teams. The Bulls have a much better defensive anchor who's also an offensive threat off lobs. Basically a lot better than Jo. They also gain a star next to Rose at the wing in Melo and they move Snell to the starting line up at the SG spot. Off the bench they have Langston and Mudiay both plus defenders (especially Langston) who could probably start in 2 years. Mudiay is a lot like Rose and John Wall. You also get Bargnani at the vet min. He can play away from the basket and Taj can play closer to it. This is a big help on the spacing front.

D. Rose/Langston Galloway
Tony Snell/Emannuel Mudiay
Carmelo Anthony/Nikola Mirotic
Pau Gasol/Taj Gibson
Tyson Chandler/A. Bargnani

You've got McBuckets somewhere in there too.

Your front court avg age is over 30 but on short term contracts.
Your backcourt avg age is way under 30 and actually very young.

You have decent spacing, multiple options, and when the cap explodes you can add more to fill whatever holes you need. In a few years you won't have many older people on contract and a **** ton of cap space with a great young core + Melo who's game isn't based off of athleticism.

Thoughts?

You have been temporarily banned from RealGM

[Red Larrivee]

I dont know why some say knicks will draft a PG in the triangle the PG is mostly just a spot up shooter.

I think they'll trade the pick. They don't have a draft pick next year and Carmelo is going to get older and more expensive each season. Do they really have time to wait for a point guard to develop?

I don't think Phil's "plan" is going to work regardless though. Re-signing Melo was a big mistake for a team that clearly needed to rebuild.

[KnicksManiac]

Very surprised some of you are willing to give up so much for the 4th pick.

Rose, Gasol, #22 for #4, Calderon?

[Red Larrivee]

Very surprised some of you are willing to give up so much for the 4th pick.

Rose, Gasol, #22 for #4, Calderon?

Lol.