Around the NBA Thread 8 | PLAYOFFS

[Polynice4Pippen]

I'm not saying Golden State's role players will be bad. I'm saying that if they ARE bad, they'll lose. And it wouldn't be unprecedented for a top team's role players to suddenly struggle. Just look at Miami last year in the Finals. But again, I don't think Golden State's role players will struggle. My point was just that if Golden State's role players get outplayed by Cleveland's they'll probably lose.

It reads like a little bit of captain obvious post to me, but yeah sure, if they don't play well they will lose. Curry and Klay can't win games by themselves. I'm just not seeing any reason it should happen.

If Steve Kerr stopped making three pointers, Ron Harper stopped playing defense and Toni Kukoc didn't pass well, Bulls would not have won a 2nd 3peat either.

So why'd you object to Cuban's point about the team whose role players play best usually winning the title?

[TimRobbins]

I don't expect coaching will play near the biggest role.

I actually think GS was ready to take the next step regardless and Kerr has been a bit overrated, but him and Blatt are in similar positions really as first year coaches.

I bet Spoelstra is sitting home on his sofa throwing tomatoes at his TV when Blatt gets up for his pressers, because that used to be him. The once 'genius' that went down to study the Oregon Ducks football offense to apply to basketball, and who designed the feared blitzing defense that terrorized the league for several years. Now Spo is a forgotton man, no one talks about him, and half his own fanbase wants him gone.

I think coaching will be big in this series, just like it was vs. the Bulls and Hawks.

I believe the Heat fans pretty much hated Spolstra throughout his tenure. Heat defense wasn't always that great during the playoffs. Both Dallas and SA broke them apart. Also, when you have Chalmers/Wade/Lebron/Battiier/Bosh, you're going to have great defense.

I don't know. Maybe Blatt is the new Spolstra, but there's no way you could compare the personnel on this Cavs team to what the Heat had. This Cavs team has Lebron. That's it.

[TheAdmiral]

Cleveland has faced no one like Steph Curry. Neither Rose or Tegaue, who looks lost late in these games, can hold a candle to him.

I totally expect Curry to get hurt at some point, allowing LeBron to once again luck out against a better opponent.

LeBron's playing without Love and Irving right now. I wouldn't call anything he's doing right now luck.

Other players have more than picked up the slack and have played very well, he hardly has to do as much by himself as initially was expected. Call that however you want, I'll call it luck.

[Rerisen]

So why'd you object to Cuban's point about the team whose role players play best usually winning the title?

Because he was responding to a post in which I explained that the Bulls role player failures were easy to see looming in contrast to Golden State.

Then he said basically, well their role players could play bad too, which while is yes in the realm of possibility, but I don't see how it makes sense in juxtaposition to the Bulls.

[TimRobbins]

He just played Memphis last round. Mike Conley, Tony Allen, Courtney Lee, all stud defenders.

Tony Allen and Conley were hurt. Lee is undersized. The Warriors are better than the Hawks, but I won't be surprised if they're hit with a similar shell-shock from the Cavs defense.

[Polynice4Pippen]

I totally expect Curry to get hurt at some point, allowing LeBron to once again luck out against a better opponent.

LeBron's playing without Love and Irving right now. I wouldn't call anything he's doing right now luck.

Other players have more than picked up the slack and have played very well, he hardly has to do as much by himself as initially was expected. Call it however you want, I'll call it luck.

And if Love and Kyrie were there it would be that much easier. And other players usually step up when they're playing next to LeBron, especially when he's dishing out 8 to 10 assists a game and getting them all open looks. No team in the playoffs has been hit harder by injuries than Cleveland. I don't want any part of that kind of "luck".

[Rerisen]

I don't know. Maybe Blatt is the new Spolstra, but there's no way you could compare the personnel on this Cavs team to what the Heat had. This Cavs team has Lebron. That's it.

I actually don't think Blatt is a bad coach, he was a great coach in Europe of course, I just don't think he's had near the control or input *this year* to get too much of the credit.

In theory Cleveland could be a much better team yet if they integrated his offense as it would probably have helped Love a lot. But they didn't. Ironically now Love got hurt and they're probaby better off with LeBron and Kyrie ball they've been playing with all year.

As far as LeBron's credit, he dragged another Cleveland team full of role players to a Finals before this. And its next best player was what, Big Z, then maybe Larry Hughes or Drew Gooden!?!

Unless they win the title, I don't see where this year will be any greater than that one.

I think the Cavs beat the Bulls even with Mike Brown coaching this year. That series was much more about the culmination of the Bulls year long dysfunction - obvious even vs crappy Milwaukee - than it was about the Cavs. It was just head shaking to watch so many Bulls fans try to hastily build the Bucks into some roaring upstart, instead of facing the reality that their team "were who we thought they were" - the same jekyll and hyde, unable to put it together all year team that frankly, wasn't more than above average.

I think continual overrating of the Bulls might be why the Cavs are being ridden so hard now. Now tack on a banged up Atlanta team which also might be suffering from the truism of a lack of superstar hurting them in the postseason. Many here argued that during the year, and I can't say there isn't evidence for it being true. Because make no mistake Teague is in no way running that team well in pressure situations, and they aren't sharing the ball any longer either. It's not because Teague is really as awesome as MVP Rose or Curry this year either, and just being shut down. He just doesn't have tools on that level.

It's not like Atlanta looked like world beaters even in the last round either. Hardly like the same team that breezed through the season.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Blatt job security probably safe for a while. Lebron has quite a bit of control and Blatt's response is pretty much do ya thing playa. Lebron gonna like this dude for a long time if they win this year.

[Polynice4Pippen]

He just played Memphis last round. Mike Conley, Tony Allen, Courtney Lee, all stud defenders.

Tony Allen and Conley were hurt. Lee is undersized. The Warriors are better than the Hawks, but I won't be surprised if they're hit with a similar shell-shock from the Cavs defense.

Allen and Conley only missed 1 game. And Lee is bigger than Curry. Cleveland's defense isn't as good as Memphis', Steph's not gonna be shell-shocked. Derrick Rose was putting up 30 on the Cavs until he hurt his shoulder. Steph will do the same. Only thing Golden State will be shell-shocked about is trying to stop LeBron.

[Rerisen]

He just played Memphis last round. Mike Conley, Tony Allen, Courtney Lee, all stud defenders.

Tony Allen and Conley were hurt. Lee is undersized. The Warriors are better than the Hawks, but I won't be surprised if they're hit with a similar shell-shock from the Cavs defense.

Allen and Conley only missed 1 game. And Lee is bigger than Curry. Cleveland's defense isn't as good as Memphis', Steph's not gonna be shell-shocked. Derrick Rose was putting up 30 on the Cavs until he hurt his shoulder. Steph will do the same. Only thing Golden State will be shell-shocked about is trying to stop LeBron.

No reason to be shell shocked by LeBron, you turn him into a scorer and play against his passing.

Bulls and Hawks seem oblivious to this, continually believing guys like Delly and Shumpert will start bricking wide open shots. Clearly they won't. They must have not watched how the Spurs beat Miami.

Hopefully Kerr is a bit brighter.

[Polynice4Pippen]

So why'd you object to Cuban's point about the team whose role players play best usually winning the title?

Because he was responding to a post in which I explained that the Bulls role player failures were easy to see looming in contrast to Golden State.

Then he said basically, well their role players could play bad too, which while is yes in the realm of possibility, but I don't see how it makes sense in juxtaposition to the Bulls.

Eh, I'm just not buying the notion that Gibson, Brooks and Mirotic all be completely useless in the playoffs was some sort of foregone conclusion. It was completely unexpected for them to be THAT bad.

[TheGameChanger]

Stupid FO and Thibs drama cost us the championship this year.

[Rerisen]

Eh, I'm just not buying the notion that Gibson, Brooks and Mirotic all be completely useless in the playoffs was some sort of foregone conclusion. It was completely unexpected for them to be THAT bad.

I wouldn't say Gibson was completely useless, he had some good games. Just not up to last year vs WAS, and he hadn't been that good all this year.

Mirotic being so bad wasn't that predictable either.

But the guys expected to really hurt us, Brooks, Snell, Hinrich, Noah by late in the year, very much did so. Or at least I wasn't expecting much from AB, saw him lit up by any team that really tried or wanted to during the year too much.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Tony Allen and Conley were hurt. Lee is undersized. The Warriors are better than the Hawks, but I won't be surprised if they're hit with a similar shell-shock from the Cavs defense.

Allen and Conley only missed 1 game. And Lee is bigger than Curry. Cleveland's defense isn't as good as Memphis', Steph's not gonna be shell-shocked. Derrick Rose was putting up 30 on the Cavs until he hurt his shoulder. Steph will do the same. Only thing Golden State will be shell-shocked about is trying to stop LeBron.

No reason to be shell shocked by LeBron, you turn him into a scorer and play against his passing.

Bulls and Hawks seem oblivious to this, continually believing guys like Delly and Shumpert will start bricking wide open shots. Clearly they won't. They must have not watched how the Spurs beat Miami.

Hopefully Kerr is a bit brighter.

Spurs beat Miami by scoring 106 ppg and shooting an ungodly percentage from the field. Like a Finals record.

[TimRobbins]

As far as LeBron's credit, he dragged another Cleveland team full of role players to a Finals before this. And its next best player was what, Big Z, then maybe Larry Hughes or Drew Gooden!?!

Unless they win the title, I don't see where this year will be any greater than that one.

I think the Cavs beat the Bulls even with Mike Brown coaching this year. That series was much more about the culmination of the Bulls year long dysfunction - obvious even vs crappy Milwaukee - than it was about the Cavs. It was just head shaking to watch so many Bulls fans try to hastily build the Bucks into some roaring upstart, instead of facing the reality that their team "were who we thought they were" - the same jekyll and hyde, unable to put it together all year team that frankly, wasn't more than above average.

I think continual overrating of the Bulls might be why the Cavs are being ridden so hard now. Now tack on a banged up Atlanta team which also might be suffering from the truism of a lack of superstar hurting them in the postseason. Many here argued that during the year, and I can't say there isn't evidence for it being true. Because make no mistake Teague is in no way running that team well in pressure situations, and they aren't sharing the ball any longer either. It's not because Teague is really as awesome as MVP Rose or Curry this year either, and just being shut down. He just doesn't have tools on that level.

I think they had Mo Williams on that team, but that was also a superman-Lebron, which was a better player than this Lebron.

I agree about the Bulls and I've been saying it all season. We were never contender level. Not for a single stretch during the season.

I don't agree about the 'control' comment. A good coach doesn't have to be in control. A good coach needs to adjust. The reason why Thibs and Budenholzer got out-coached in these playoffs is because they were unable to adjust like the Cavs did. The goal here is not to get 'control', it's to win games.

This will all be settled in the finals. If the Cavs get swept like the Spurs did them in 07, then I'll concede you were right.

[TimRobbins]

No reason to be shell shocked by LeBron, you turn him into a scorer and play against his passing.

Bulls and Hawks seem oblivious to this, continually believing guys like Delly and Shumpert will start bricking wide open shots. Clearly they won't. They must have not watched how the Spurs beat Miami.

Hopefully Kerr is a bit brighter.

The finals will be decided on the Cavs' defense, not offense. If the Warriors score as usual, they will win. Bulls and Hawks got beat because they couldn't score, not because they couldn't stop the Cavs from scoring.

Kerr will do the same thing as Thibs/Budenholzer. He will stick to what the Warriors were doing in the regular season and he will look just as defeated as Budenholzer did in the presser, not knowing what the heck is going on and why his offense is stalling.

[Rerisen]

This will all be settled in the finals. If the Cavs get swept like the Spurs did them in 07, then I'll concede you were right.

If one's starting position, like many of us, is that many coaches could have (read: would be forced) to do much the same as Blatt, then no reason he should take undue criticism if they lose, since he isn't getting much for them winning. That will fall on Lebron for being so controlling of every aspect of that team, right from its construction, to its offense, playcalling, his minutes, etc.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Eh, I'm just not buying the notion that Gibson, Brooks and Mirotic all be completely useless in the playoffs was some sort of foregone conclusion. It was completely unexpected for them to be THAT bad.

I wouldn't say Gibson was completely useless, he had some good games. Just not up to last year vs WAS, and he hadn't been that good all this year.

Mirotic being so bad wasn't that predictable either.

But the guys expected to really hurt us, Brooks, Snell, Hinrich, Noah by late in the year, very much did so. Or at least I wasn't expecting much from AB, saw him lit up by any team that really tried or wanted to during the year too much.

Brooks shouldn't be getting so thoroughly outplayed by Matthew Dellavadova though. 21 points in 6 games. Delly had 19 alone in Game 6.

[TimRobbins]

This will all be settled in the finals. If the Cavs get swept like the Spurs did them in 07, then I'll concede you were right.

If one's starting position, like many of us, is that many coaches could have (read: would be forced) to do much the same as Blatt, then no reason he should take undue criticism if they lose. That will fall on Lebron for being so controlling of every aspect of that team, right from its construction, to its offense, playcalling, his minutes, etc.

Yeah, Lebron controls most of the offense, but the Cavs are playing Blatt defense and that defense is winning them games, not the offense.

[Rerisen]

Brooks shouldn't be getting so thoroughly outplayed by Matthew Dellavadova though. 21 points in 6 games. Delly had 19 alone in Game 6.

Delladova posted him up and scored from like 2 feet from the rim, that's when the final humiliation and true value of Brooks showed.

Guys like this are one trick ponies, benefitting from lack of effort and scouting in regular season games. There is a reason they are vet min players. Bulls fans rave over them as 'finds' because they are allowed to score in the season and this serves us as bargain basement volume guys, but they've now repeatedly shown to be fools gold in the playoffs. Nate fought bravely to stymie this trend, but even he had some really poor spells on D and running the team.

It's time to end this yearly ritual at backup PG and find a real sized backup.