Bold & Aggressive

Stratmaster · Post #61 » by **Stratmaster** » Sun May 24, 2015 12:55 pm

Yeah, the bulls should do something bold like going after a Carmelo Anthony type. But if they don't get that player they need to have a back-up plan too. Maybe something like picking up a proven all-star level quality player who can score. And while they are at it, the need to bring in a young promising offensive talent who can score in a variety of ways. THAT would be bold and aggressive.

BullsGate · Post #62 » by **BullsGate** » Sun May 24, 2015 1:25 pm

Dajody10 wrote:
MC3 wrote:I am telling him to stop because he is being silly just like many rest of you.

You just have the typical losers mentality. Cleveland got Mozgov, Smith and Shumpert for two future first round picks.....and I'm to believe we can't improve the roster? Not a chance, keep living in fantasy land - the Bulls don't WANT to win, they are content collecting checks and racking in cash. They're more than happy competing with no chance to win a title - and the SAD part is, half the fans are ALSO content with this strategy! UNREAL

I agree with this.

Dajody10 · Post #63 » by **Dajody10** » Sun May 24, 2015 6:17 pm

Mark K wrote:Define 'bold & aggressive'?

Typically, when a FO goes out with a plan to be bold & aggressive, it typically doesn't end well. One can point to the Lakers getting Gasol, Detroit receiving Wallace or more recently, the Cavs getting 3 role player for Waiters. That's great, but these type of trade wins are extremely rare.

Trading Noah for a wing isn't a bold & aggressive plan. It's a rational one that makes sense.

The most likely scenario for the Bulls getting over the hump that is Lebron James will have to come internally. We're going to have a huge payroll. Our options will be limited. Our only real chance is Derrick Rose returning to some elite, efficient form, with hopefully Noah getting back to a '7/10' level, with continued development of young players.

That's our only real shot.

Trading for some less than average wing player like a Wilson Chandler or someone else of similar notority is not moving the needle at all.

Most people, including yourself, probably said the same thing when Cleveland traded for Mozgov, Smith and Shumpert.....'those guys are losers who will hurt the teams chemistry' is probably what you thought when those trades went down and that's the same argument you're trying to make here. Why don't the Bulls trade Hinrich (expiring), Snell (young cheap asset with potential), Bairstow and maybe out pick (if needed) for a guy like Kevin Martin. Sure it seems like a 1st and Snell is a lot for an older wing, but Kevin Martin is the kind of player we need. Great shooter, capable of scoring in isolation and GREAT at getting to the foul line. Minny dumps money, gets a developing young wing in Snell and a late 1st. Those are the kinds of trades we should be taking advantage of - it's the only way this club is getting over the hump.

RememberLu · Post #64 » by **RememberLu** » Sun May 24, 2015 6:20 pm

I doubt Kevin Martin is the guy who'll put us over the hump at this point, is he really much better than Dunleavy? Another old guy to shoot at a high % from the 3 while playing poor defense. Don't help us in the playoffs against elite teams.

Dajody10 · Post #65 » by **Dajody10** » Sun May 24, 2015 6:38 pm

RememberLu wrote:I doubt Kevin Martin is the guy who'll put us over the hump at this point, is he really much better than Dunleavy? Another old guy to shoot at a high % from the 3 while playing poor defense. Don't help us in the playoffs against elite teams.

Yes, he is that much better than Dunleavy. Brings significantly more offensive versatility. Is he much better as a spot up shooter than Dunleavy, no he is not.....but that's not the point, we need guys who can do more than just sit around and shoot spot up jumpers. Most people on here probably said Smith & Shumpert weren't as good as Waiters, and that Mozgov definitely wasn't worth two first round picks. Kevin Martin fills a major need, which is the ability to score in multiple ways - he would be a very nice pickup for the next two seasons before our cap resets. Plus we keep Noah, so our frontcourt depth would still be a strength.

RememberLu · Post #66 » by **RememberLu** » Sun May 24, 2015 6:50 pm

JR and Iman Shump are 2 way players, Kevin Martin is a 1 way player. Plus he's old and not very athletic. Not nearly as athletic and versatile on both sides of the floor as those guys.

Don't see how he helps us at this point, Its a move that would have been good years ago, not now.

it reeks of another Rip Hamilton/Pau Gasol/Mike Dunleavy type of signing. Enough of the old vets, Bulls need to get younger and more athletic A.S.A.P.

GetBuLLish · Post #67 » by **GetBuLLish** » Sun May 24, 2015 7:20 pm

RememberLu wrote:I doubt Kevin Martin is the guy who'll put us over the hump at this point

Can people please stop using this phrase? It's used time and time again to turn down possible trades, but it's meaningless.

It's not about getting a guy to put you over a made up "hump," it's about making the team better.

This same thought process could have been used against the Cavs' trades. "Iman Shumpert won't get them over the hump." "JR Smith can't get them over the hump."

Iman and Smith were playing like crap for one of the worst teams in the league at the time they were traded. Mozgov was most known for being viciously dunked on by Blake Griffin when he was traded. Yet the Cavs traded for them and made the team better.

And by the way, this is not directed towards you, RememberLu, but the Cavs trades were not no-brainers as some people here like to portray. And I would guarantee that if the Bulls FO was in the same position as the Cavs, they would not have traded for JR Smith and Mozgov. And the same people who now say that the trades were no-brainers would have been the same people praising the FO for not making the trades.

RememberLu · Post #68 » by **RememberLu** » Sun May 24, 2015 7:23 pm

sure but all 3 of those guys are relatively young, athletic with upside and decent 2 way players

I don't see how the Cavs making those moves compares with us trading for KMart

are we trying to be the oldest/least athletic team in the league or what. Some of these signings the past 3-4 years, you could make that argument

MC3 · Post #69 » by **MC3** » Sun May 24, 2015 7:28 pm

RememberLu wrote:sure but all 3 of those guys are relatively young, athletic with upside and decent 2 way players

I don't see how the Cavs making those moves compares with us trading for KMart

are we trying to be the oldest/least athletic team in the league or what. Some of these signings the past 3-4 years, you could make that argument

Well are still in Thibodeau era, so our mind works the older and unathletic the better (see Dunleavy, Kurt, Noah-Gasol lineup etc). It's Thibs strategy. The slower the better (like pace of Bulls games). So it's hard to switch it (ironically just like Bulls tried from regular season for playoffs) on something we never had last half decade.

Dajody10 · Post #70 » by **Dajody10** » Sun May 24, 2015 7:31 pm

RememberLu wrote:sure but all 3 of those guys are relatively young, athletic with upside and decent 2 way players

I don't see how the Cavs making those moves compares with us trading for KMart

are we trying to be the oldest/least athletic team in the league or what. Some of these signings the past 3-4 years, you could make that argument

Can't say I'm surprised this argument is coming from a guy who's avitar is that of Luol Deng - the perfect example of the Bulls inept lack of forward thinking approach. :banghead:

RememberLu · Post #71 » by **RememberLu** » Sun May 24, 2015 7:39 pm

You can say anything you want about me but don't you dare badmouth the 2014 Walter J. Kennedy Citizen of the Year, lifelong Bull and all around great person... our boy Lu

Dajody10 · Post #72 » by **Dajody10** » Sun May 24, 2015 8:13 pm

I wasn't badmouthing Luol Deng - I was simply implying that Luol Deng is epitome of what's wrong with the Bulls general approach to improving the roster. The Bulls sat on Deng for years, when his value was at its highest they refused to move him thinking he was a key part of a championship caliber team, which he clearly was not. Luol Deng was a good role player, but the Bulls and the general fan base overrated him, and we ended up dumping him for nothing. Gotta live and learn from mistakes - but it seems like everyone still has the same general thought process as always - overrate the current players, and refuse to truly acknowledge the roster issues.

Post #73 » by **kingkirk** » Sun May 24, 2015 9:45 pm

Dajody10 wrote:Most people, including yourself, probably said the same thing when Cleveland traded for Mozgov, Smith and Shumpert.....'those guys are losers who will hurt the teams chemistry' is probably what you thought when those trades went down and that's the same argument you're trying to make here. Why don't the Bulls trade Hinrich (expiring), Snell (young cheap asset with potential), Bairstow and maybe out pick (if needed) for a guy like Kevin Martin. Sure it seems like a 1st and Snell is a lot for an older wing, but Kevin Martin is the kind of player we need. Great shooter, capable of scoring in isolation and GREAT at getting to the foul line. Minny dumps money, gets a developing young wing in Snell and a late 1st. Those are the kinds of trades we should be taking advantage of - it's the only way this club is getting over the hump.

Hinrich is not expiring. Hinrich has a no trade clause and a player option, so straight away, the deal you just proposed is rendered useless. He has a young family. Why accept a trade out to Minnesota? He would can the deal. I know i would.

As for Martin, this dude is injury prone. He missed a tonne of the season. Great in theory, but it still has holes.

Chitownbulls · Post #74 » by **Chitownbulls** » Mon May 25, 2015 12:33 am

There have been plenty of all star caliber players available the last couple years. Heres 3 that we should have went after but we decided not too because we didnt want to PART WITH OUR CORE.

James Harden...available before his prime
Dwight Howard...available in his early Prime
LaMarcus Aldridge... available in his early prime....you know, the guy that said he wanted to play in Chicago but we didnt want to part with Noah bc he plays with too much passion lol

We did not sell high on Lu Deng....We got rid of him when noone wanted him anymore an he was washed up an ran into the ground.

DarthDiggler69 · Post #75 » by **DarthDiggler69** » Mon May 25, 2015 2:49 am

Bulls should gets some professional stock traders as GM so they can buy low and sell high on players

Kneepad · Post #76 » by **Kneepad** » Mon May 25, 2015 2:52 am

Chitownbulls wrote:We did not sell high on Lu Deng....We got rid of him when noone wanted him anymore an he was washed up an ran into the ground.

The Heat signed him for $20M over 2 years.

R3AL1TY · Post #77 » by **R3AL1TY** » Mon May 25, 2015 6:16 am

To overcome Lebron, it will take a combination of a better offensive system, the existing players getting better, and signing a key vet to the starting lineup at SF. I will also like to see Taj start instead of Noah, and for Rose to get to the freethrow line more rather than shooting too many 3s.

ralphisBullsFan · Post #78 » by **ralphisBullsFan** » Mon May 25, 2015 6:27 am

i know this has been said before many time but I think people really need to keep this always in mind....Jerry's true love is baseball and the white socks...Basketball and the Bulls are his cash cow...keep them good enough to keep the fans coming and merch selling...The 90's Bulls, Jordan, Pippen and Phil were an anomaly and we lucked into them...And the truth is we don't have a top 10 player where it looks stupid to not build around them...Until some of our big money contracts come off the cap we aren't in a position to dramatically improve....We had chances to package Noah+Deng for superstar talent and didn't which I believe most fans agreed with, then they got old and lost their trade value, the time to make moves was years ago...We aren't in a position to make moves anymore....

Post #79 » by **Rerisen** » Mon May 25, 2015 10:27 am

RememberLu wrote:JR and Iman Shump are 2 way players, Kevin Martin is a 1 way player.

He's a one way player (offense) but he is a multi-tool offensive player at least, where Dunleavy is not only a one sided player, but also a one-dimensional player on offense. He can't draw fouls, and isn't a threat with the ball.

Mike really fell off on defense too, I'm not sure he's much better than Martin at this point. It gets hid during the year as he gets bum wing assignments but in the playoffs, when Jimmy has to cover a tough SF or something, Dunleavy has no hope vs SGs that are athletic or actually have an offensive game.

Would we all like to do much better yet? Of course, but the Bulls aren't going to have a lot of money, nor a lot of trade assets. Yet we have to try and improve in any small to moderate areas we can, because this team isn't that close to championship quality right now.

We could go for an Afflalo or Wilson Chanlder type instead, but all pretty much in the same tier. Martin is much better offensively than them, just depends what you want.

It's funny to call Kmart old, when the standing pat option, Dunleavy, was the same age 3 years ago.

Post #80 » by **TNBT** » Mon May 25, 2015 10:45 am

Honestly, the OP is ridiculous, and anyone who claims that the rest of the Cavs roster outside of LeBron are "scrubs" just shows how little clue they have. But OP, if you're delusional enough to think that anyone who disagrees with you is either "too dense" or doesn't understand the game, then you do that. Whatever helps you sleep at night mate.