Shooting Coach, Shot Doctor - Is this a real thing and why don't we have one?

[DarthDiggler69]

Rose - don't jump so high on your 3pt shot - decreases both arc and consistency as you tire

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I noticed though when Rose came back right before the playoffs he was jumping higher on his shot and making more of them in the playoffs or at least it looked closer than when he didn't jump as high

[art_barbie]

1. Core
2. Core
3. Core
4. Wrist and finger strength.
5. Shot mechanics (assuming you already decent and looking to improve and dont shoot a tornado)-
6. Leg strength

Not to be a total ass, but this is patently ridiculous.

So if we take someone who has never shot a basketball in his life, but is a world class pilates expert then logically they should have a much better shot than your typical NBA player given that their core is great. Who cares if they have any mechanics at all?

Mechanics and muscle memory are more important than anything else by a factor of a million. Building up all the small muscles you need to make a shot that you might not use for almost anything else is obviously important, but nothing is more important than mechanics and muscle memory.

It very well may be true that for someone at the NBA level that already has really strongly established muscle memory and average mechanics might do better improving all the little muscles than trying to do a full rebuild on their mechanics because they'd need to rework all the learned muscle memory with new mechanics which might be what you mean (ie, it'd take Joakim Noah 3-4 years to fully rebuild his mechanics and retrain his muscles, so it isn't worth sucking for 3-4 years).

Another trick to teach better "touch" is to train with slippery, hard (over-inflated) balls. this works well for both shooting and dribbling. The strongest hands have the softest touch.

Also train with various weighted balls at the same time-some heavier-some lighter-make the brain process the weight of the ball as you catch and shoot it.

basically you make practice conditions way harder than making an actual set shot in a game of basketball.

If this works for you, then it's definitely a "long game" type of project. In the short run, practicing with heavy/light balls just screws up your muscle memory and makes it more difficult to shoot with a proper ball.

I would imagine if you can master shooting a ball of any weight and any grip then you'll likely be better at shooting a proper ball because you'd have to train your muscles to have enough touch to master the various ball weights, but I'd wonder if the gain translates to the proper ball enough relative to other things you could do.

My suspicion would be that unless you were an absolutely elite shooter already that there would be faster gains elsewhere. Though I like training with a heavier ball to build the muscles, but that's a much heavier ball.

Seldem is ever shooting the same set shot from the same place on the floor over and over...keep moving while shooting...both around the arc and depth in front and behind the arc-as you would get shots in a game.

I think this is a great tip.

yeah...the entire premise of the thread is (hiring or not hiring) an (NBA calibre) shooting coach. So we are talking about guys like Derrick Rose, Taj, Perhaps Noah but he is mostly a lost cause. Guys like Kirk as well that could have benefited early in his career. And the NBA is littered with players like Thabo, james Johnson...that would shoot 28-34% from 3 pt range. this type of training is for them not really for a weekend warrior but it would help them too...to get their legs stronger and teach them to use their legs more, translate that to their core without losing much of the energy so that they can use the wrist, finger, and tricep strictly for touch. thabo in particular is a guy that shot more of this shots from the tricep (instead of the legs and core) than any other player I've seen in a long time. By putting up shots, and by virtue of being wide open, even he made 40% for 2 years...then came back to his low 30% once he was hit with more attention on defense.

Do youself a favor right now...Stand up. And lean back, or lean to the left, or lean to the right (as if to avoid a defender) and shoot 5 shots with a basketball from 15 feet away into the waste basket in your house with a relaxed stomach and relaxed core using strictly forarm and wrist, use your shoulder too if you like...now shoot those same shots with a tight and rigid core and fling your core into the shot using your legs as balance(dont jump)...this will alow you to use less forarm and use your hand to just guide the shot. what was easier? what was more accurate? Which motion could you do faster and more accurately?

The reason why the all time great shooters all have a lightning quick release and flick the ball so quickly and effortlessly is because they shoot with their legs and their core...the wrist and tricep is merely used for touch. Their core kind of sling-shot the arm while the hand guides the ball. just like a pitcher's body sling shots his arm. Their legs and core are already in shooting motion before the ball even arrives. The hand just has to catch and flick as the arm is lined up with the rim and with the core that is squared/ing up for the shot. the tight, strong core enures a tight shoulder with little variation. They just need to line the arm up and flick the wrist using most of the energy transered from the legs and core. it helps When fingers and hands are so strong from training (fingertip bowling really helps here) that they have the soft touch to catch the ball and flick up a great shot instantaneously.

Most of the greatest shooters tend to be kind of skinny...odd given is takes a lot of strength but they have the most range and the biggest arc. How? Cuz their core translates the energy from the legs with less loss of energy...and they have very strong hands and wrist to help with the touch.

The training I outline above is to gradually turn a 27-34% shooter into a 34-42% shooter for ever...not for a night...or for a season for that matter. This isn't for a guy at the "Y" who already has bad mechanics and wants to do something once for one night. This is for a guy that gets paid to play or has a passion to teach other guys to shoot. Guys that have decent to good mechanics already on set shots but want to add to the repetoire outside of 18 feet. Or for a guy who's release is always different, who's projectile (shooting arc) is always different. Because its the core that keeps the hips, legs, shoulder, and by extension arm always tightly aligned. its the core muscles that create the proper and consistent form, from there you develop the muscle memory.

There are a lot of strong players, bench a ton, squat a ton, even do a ton of sit ups which is a part of a core exercise but their core isn't completely tied together with their legs and arms to produce a consistent, superfluous, strong shooting motion.

This type of training system would certainly help a weekend warrior, but its more of the long game for a good high school/College/NBA players that is below average at shooting.

Obviously (an NBA) near or sub 30% 3 pt shooter is doing something wrong that others do better. You dont think Rose puts up 3pt shots? Tons of them in practice? He just isn't training right. His form and gait is that of a 30% 3 pt shooter... Likely, Rose and guys like him have a lazy shooting motion because the mind is also lazy/unfocused during the shot. So you train a lazy mind and body by making it think and work make them naturally learn to focus more by changing the ball conditions. Quickly-passing various balls, some slippery surfaced, some grippy, slightly heavier and lighter balls...they catch and shoot. And must process very quickly all the conditions of the ball during the shooting motion vs...just shooting with a heavy ball for 100 shots, then a normal ball. You also traint hem to use their legs and core tranfers better by using extremely heavy balls and shooting from distance-like 30-35 feet.

A poor shooter likley has poor mechanics. So you deprogram the shooting mechanic muscles first by using varied balls, especially heavy and slippery at various intervals-depths etc. Another way to simulate a heavy ball is to do weight training prior to shooting drills-exhaust the tricep, forarm and legs during a weight training before shooting drills...then the player must use the core to shoot because all the other muscle groups are fatigued. . Or use the heavier ball which makes them use their legs and core more(even if inefficiently at first). Or do it different ways on different days. Practice shooting from 30 feet with proper from. Eventually they learn to tie the core together with the energy from the legs and translate that to the arm and hand better. This develops touch...what we call a shooters roll, or shooters bounce comes from developing the strength necessary to shoot and learning how to translate that strength to the fingertips with a "soft touch"

Eg. When you shoot from NBA range with a heavy ball, you must learn to shoot with your legs and not lose the power generated from your legs in your core before it gets to the arm and fingertips. The core is what must translate, further develop then transfer the energy from the legs. This is why all great shooter rise up higher than most below average shooters...just watch a ton of Bird footage, Reggie footage, Dirk Footage, Ray Allen footage, or short guys like Nate....just watch the core, you will see a pattern in their core, their backs usually end up very erect-way more so that other shooters pre-shot. Erect and Arched backward as the back muscles (traps, delts n lats, help bring the back up high and erect...then as they are about to release-simultaneously they use their chest, abs,obliques, serratus, and chest to sling shot their body toward the hoop...the core acts as a sling shot for the arm...just like it does for a pitcher or QB, or hitter at the plate. And most people dont see it happening in basketball because it is oh so slight forever subtle Its a very subtle whipping motion that below average shooters seldem develop enough strength to do properly or they dont have the ability to translate or transfer that energy superfluously to the fingertips. The tripep, forarm, and muscles in the hand are strictly for touch...you are not suppose to get much power from them. This technique(the erect back-slight whipping motion of the torso as the shot is released is especially important when shooting from deep over an outstretched NBA defender-especially if fading away, even slightly. And sometimes the torso is whipping from the side(ish) Dirk step back, or during a turnaround fade either direction. I see guys all the time trying that move, a turn around fade and they cant throw the ball more than 12 feet...because they think that the shot come from the wrist and tricep...they cant get their core or really their legs involved. I'm sure you tried this shot before and cant even hit the rim beyond 6-7 feet. Its because your core is not involved. You are shooting all tricep. Dirk and Bird and Durrant dont make that shot from 20 feet all day long because they have stronger tricpes than you. They make that shot because they are translating and transferring the energy better from their legs into their core and transferring it to the hand and then have the strong fingertips to guide the release with a softer touch than you.

conversely take rose's shot. Because he uses a lot of tricep, he usually shoots a line drive, but even his line drive shot has a varied projectile arc. its varied because he is jumping too high...often shooting at or well after his peak of his jump-Thereby losing all that energy) and making up for it with some core and a lot of tricep. Part of Derricks problem is that he is a mentally weak shooter, therefore. He is mentally weak as a shooter and therefore desires more space to shoot vs favoring his technique. he knows...shooting with his style, that he needs clearance to get his shot off...he cant lean back and fade away when shooting because he shoots with too much arm and not enough legs and core transfer. So about the only time derrick looks decent shooting is when he has the time to step into a wide open shot(likely because that is how he like most players get their reps in)...He also looks good shooting from 10 feet or less where you are suppose to shoot with more wrist and fingertips as a source of energy vs. guiding the energy from the core and legs when shooting from deep. And when you shoot the way he does, using too much tricep as a source so he cant be bumped, or nudge because he has no touch (because he is shooting with so much arm). Without having a better way to state it...he shoots "scarred" or without confidence or insecurely...which leads to his over emotional state or approach to the game. He is not a magic johnson out there nor a larry bird or even a chris paul. Rose plays like Nate Robinson without Nate Robinson's supoerior shooting mechanics and core strength. Which sometimes works to Rose's benefit at the end of games, in a tight game, everyone's SNS has kicked in, emotions are higher, epi and nor epi release is higher..Rose is already in this state during games so he is more comfortable in this state and can actually focus better than most other players...thats why he is one of our best shooters at the end of games but thats another story altogether.

But mostly, A good shooting coach would say his lack of confidence create creates a mentally lazy approach-which leads to a lazy looking shot. Again, look a ray allen, Bird, Reggie, Korver montage of 50 shots each...then do the same with Rose...Which guy just looks stronger? yet we know Derrick can likely lift way more weights than all those guys-yet they shoot "stronger".


The biggest way to see if a shooter has a week core transfer of energy is when they often miss to the left or right and are really short on shots. it should almost never happen, once you have a solid core transfer, with excellent hand strength and good mechanics you seldom miss to the left or right unless the ball slips(but this is why you also practice with slippery balls)...-good strong shooters are generally either slightly too deep or too short.

training with slippery balls teaches you that you cant squeeze a slippery sweaty ball-it will slip right out of even micheal jordan's hands(and his hands were very large and strong). you must learn to cup a slippery ball in the hand, almost balancing it with light pressure and also be able to shoot that way. Training this way is not as hard as it sounds. Nor does it really throw you off except maybe that night. Maybe. You learn to shoot under various conditions when training. On game nights, there is always a 1-2 hour shoot around period to re-adjust to both game balls, game conditions, and your normal shooting mechanics. In fact thats what this kind of training does...teaches your body to problem solve quickly and get to where you want to be at game speed.

And believe it or not the NBA ball is not always the same...just like football gate with Brady...a slight variation in the ball happens ALL THE TIME. NBA arenas tend to be more humid and colder near the floor if there ice underneath. There are dryer climates like pheonix where the ball is more slippery until some sweat gets on it, etc. More humid climates...however slight...it affect the ball. Also the pressure can change slightly. The ball can be sweaty one minute and dry the next if a ref grabs and wipes. The ball is (Slightly) lighter in more north latitude, also lighter at higher altitude, as well as based on how much moisture the ball absorbs during the course of a game makes the ball heavier. So training with a slight variation of ball weights is a good thing.

So "shot training" in a varied interval type of cycle is actually better for muscle memory, not worse. It helps you make game time shooting decisions faster and better.

Also, training to shoot and for muscle memory is a new territory. Studies began to show that the bodies muscles and mind responds better(over time) to varied interval training vs doing the same thing over and over the same way. We are beginning to see that muscle memory like a golf swing and tennis serve, etc that the mind and body train and learn better and faster over time if the conditions are varied. even though it seems like those are pure muscle memory actions that are the same every time-in fact they are not.

Eg. Golf...you never know on what day you are going to be leaning into a 30 mph wind or if one is at your back...so the guy that trains for that is not only more ready for that but also just more ready in general for varied conditions. and golf and bowling are 2 eg.s of the most extreme (almost purely) muscle memory sports that exist. various, oil patterns in bowling affect not only line-but rev rate, ball speed, etc etc. You train for different conditions in bowling. And no sport...not one sport on the planet save maybe gun shooting or archery rival bowling in terms of muscle memory...these sports require the least variation. In basketball, there is a ton more of variation in the approach just before the release. off a screen, curl, fade, turn around, stepping into shot, off the dribble, giant killer, etc...during all these shots there is a jump where the legs create the energy...legs are attached to the body...in the body...the core muscle either transfer the energy from the legs with efficiency or poorly and that energy is lost in the body before it gets to the arm.

So you train this core to get stronger and you train the core to transfer the energy better by varying the conditions especially using heavy balls during training and shooting from extreme distance.

Also, during a basketball game you will constantly be bumped mid-air, or a hand on your hip throwing off your balance. You train for this. And when the core and legs are stronger, you use less arm. its only the guys that use too much arm end up throwing up wild shots when slightly bumped because your arm muscles are so tight...no touch...but if your arm is loose, because your core is stronger you can still shoot with more touch even when bumped or fading away from defenders.

So in advanced shooting drills you simulate mid air bumbs, a push in the back, etc. The guy with the strongest core that using more of the force from his legs and strictly using the hand, wrist, and tricep for touch is going to make more of those shots.

So we are slightly touching on shot psychology here as well. Developing that more confident shooter is part of this...

basically, I am speaking of problem based learning applied to shooting mechanics and body training specifically for shooting under various conditions versus old school repetition and memorization of facts and motions.

Most NBA players do practice this by the way...they do it by playing against each other in pick up games...even one one games...but believe it or not they play pick up games similar to how guys at the YMCA play...the best bal handler or the guy who gets the rebound seldom passes and dribbles down the court and attempts a one on one move...maybe...just maybe there will be an outlet pass if a C grabs the rebound and maybe there might be a second pass if there is an opportunity to dish a magic johnson like assist. Seriously, they dont really practice/simulate actual NBA games like one would think they do. its basically way worse than summer league.

And then they put up shots like you see in pregame...like you've seen kids in high school, like you've seen, kids at your college do. few players if ever work with an actual shot doctor. But some have. and some do there own variation of this. it works. reggie miller has often spoke of it. Some NBA players did this type of training differently and didn't realize they did it. Like Kenny Smith who shoveled his out door court in NY and played out side in the winter time with a frozen ball. Which helped train him at a young age to shoot with excellent core transfer because too strong of hand and wrist and the ball would slip off the fingers.

Also, the old NBA ball was leather and slippery for about a quarter...then it got wet with sweat(which made it easier to grip) (and also heavier), and then it got warm due to being bounced so much which also gave it more "feel"...in essence old school guys trained in very much varied conditions like this by virtue of using real leather balls and training facilities that were old and tattered maybe not heated as well...Nowadays every team has a picture perfect training facility, perfect temp, year round, and maybe 200-300 brand new balls per month. have you evr shot and old NBA game leather ball? In the 70's and early 80's team were hemorrhaging money. It was not uncommon to have older balls in the practice facilities. These balls were really hard and really slippery when cold, and then complete different once warm from use and got some warm sweat on them. Nowadays, practice game balls and practice facilities are nearly flawless from most high schools on up.

that said, more and more players practice (pure) shooting now as opposed to scoring off of your own dribble. And NBA and Euro teams seldom sign guys like Noah that just cant really shoot correctly at all. there is an emphasis on shooting now that the league has never seen.

Anyways...

[art_barbie]

The best shooters seldem have ankle issues, or knee issues or back issues...again because the core is so strong and so balanced.

But the importance of improved set shot making goes like this.

1. Core
2. Core
3. Core
4. Wrist and finger strength.
5. Shot mechanics (assuming you already decent and looking to improve and dont shoot a tornado)-
6. Leg strength

Look at the best shooters of all time: Bird, reggie, Ray, Kerr, Curry, Klay, Korver, et al- just not very injury prone at all

Edited for length, but you just said Curry doesn't have ankle injuries and is very durable.............................. That guys picture was under "made of glass" because of his ankles for so long.

I would argue durability is because they are shooters and not that they are great shooters because of durability and strength. Someone who shoots threes sees very little contact at the rim leading to lower injury risk.

curry does not have a chronic ankle condition nor the type of game that results in it becoming a chronic thing. He landed on someone at some point I believe...but it was a contact thing.

[art_barbie]

The best shooters seldem have ankle issues, or knee issues or back issues...again because the core is so strong and so balanced.

But the importance of improved set shot making goes like this.

1. Core
2. Core
3. Core
4. Wrist and finger strength.
5. Shot mechanics (assuming you already decent and looking to improve and dont shoot a tornado)-
6. Leg strength

Look at the best shooters of all time: Bird, reggie, Ray, Kerr, Curry, Klay, Korver, et al- just not very injury prone at all

Edited for length, but you just said Curry doesn't have ankle injuries and is very durable.............................. That guys picture was under "made of glass" because of his ankles for so long.

I would argue durability is because they are shooters and not that they are great shooters because of durability and strength. Someone who shoots threes sees very little contact at the rim leading to lower injury risk.

Also Larry Bird and Mike Miller have had a few back issues in their early 30s.

Bird slipped a disc (BULGING) doing a digging and shoveling mile long ashphalt driveway for his mom in 1985. this was not a basketball injury...but it became chronic. it was the strength of his core that allowed him to play through that.

in 1988 his back around this disc was so damaged that an archaic procedure of fusing those vertebrae and removing that disc was performed with very mild success. Again, bird played 3 more all-star and all-nba seasons (i believe) after having 2 discs removed and 2 vertebrae fused BECAUSE of his core strength. Think about that...in 1991 larry bird was 35-36 years old and had 2 vertebrae fused and was an all star and all nba forward.

Conversely, my friends dad had the same procedure on his lower back and is nearly paralyzed because of it. it hurt when he sits, hurts when he stands, hurts when he lays down, and is hooked on vicodin...My friends dad has almost zero core stability. so his spine has no support-he can barely move...only 45 years old.

Good and proper core strength and conditioning = good spinal stability and good hip to torso alignment = proper knee positioning when running and jumping especially at angles = and good shoulder support = less injury prone. Indisputable scientific facts

[dougthonus]

Obviously (an NBA) near or sub 30% 3 pt shooter is doing something wrong that others do better. You dont think Rose puts up 3pt shots? Tons of them in practice? He just isn't training right. His form and gait is that of a 30% 3 pt shooter...

Most of your quite long post below contradicted the only thing I really meant to pick on which is that it's fairly obvious great core strength isn't even close to the most important thing in shooting a basketball and clearly isn't as important as good mechanics where you initially had it as three times as important as good mechanics.

Perhaps what you meant is simply that core strength is frequently overlooked, which I would agree with.

I did find many of your other points/tips interesting though, so thanks

[League Circles]

I think (core) strength is overstated as it relates to NBA players, who are generally extremely tall and can easily shoot the ball anywhere. For smaller men and women it is definitely more important. Guys like dirk, kukoc, etc are using mostly wrist and fingers to get the ball to do what they want. Stronger cores aren't really necessary. A guy like derrick probably has a super strong core yet still isn't good at shooting.

[art_barbie]

Obviously (an NBA) near or sub 30% 3 pt shooter is doing something wrong that others do better. You dont think Rose puts up 3pt shots? Tons of them in practice? He just isn't training right. His form and gait is that of a 30% 3 pt shooter...

Most of your quite long post below contradicted the only thing I really meant to pick on which is that it's fairly obvious great core strength isn't even close to the most important thing in shooting a basketball and clearly isn't as important as good mechanics where you initially had it as three times as important as good mechanics.

Perhaps what you meant is simply that core strength is frequently overlooked, which I would agree with.

I did find many of your other points/tips interesting though, so thanks

1. its the strong core muscles that creates th etight frame which then gives you the sound mechanics.

2. one can certainly develop poor mechanics or good mechanics with a strong core.
So the goal is obviously good mechanics. but its also the strong core that help develop good mechanics and balance, the superfluous one motion shot. most great shooters are one motion shooters.

3. The core is the part between the legs and arm. The power comes from the legs, the core must transefer that energy efficiently. when fading away from defenders, the core must act as a sling shot to whip th earm forward...the stronger the core, the more efficient this action.

[alucryts]

There really doesn't seem to be much backing behind your claims of core being so important to being a great shooter over mechanics. Do you have any sources on the effects of gait or core strength to back you up or is it just your opinion?

[art_barbie]

There really doesn't seem to be much backing behind your claims of core being so important to being a great shooter over mechanics. Do you have any sources on the effects of gait or core strength to back you up or is it just your opinion?

My experience is mostly anecdotal with science behind it. I am a recreation basketball player, and I was a competitive dancer/gymnast for over 10 years went to state multiple years in high school, then a cheerleader at Northwestern, and an assistant trainer for both mens basketball and mens football at Northwestern, studied athletic medicine/training. So, i have some background/exposure in this but I admit not a lot. Training has changed rapidly over the last 30 years...Every 5 years or so there are major transitions/shifts in training. Right now diet and core are all the rage. And for good reason. We find that almost all freshmen athletes at NU both football and basketball have major deficiencies in core strength so this is an emphasis of the training in recent years. As a female, I had to learn to use my legs more so than a man does when shooting from distance. And transfer that energy from my legs, through my core, to my arm...so this might be easier for my mind to process than it is to explain.

For the record, I never said core was more important than mechanics...what I said was(paraphrasing) that so long as you have decent/good mechanics...its the strengthening of the core that either brings out or creates the elite consistency/balance/and strength in your shot. I described a 32% 3pt shooter vs and 38% 3pt shooter and a modern thought on how to train the 32% shooter to become a 38% shooter. What I meant to say but only implied was that it is the core strength that creates the consistency and strength in the mechanics. Its a chicken-egg argument. Modern athletic training theory is that core strength is the egg for almost any skill/technique performed consistently. That is certainly the case in gymnastics and dance. In basketball, core-mechanics, wrist and finger strength-its all very tied together. I should have said core is more important than almost everyone thinks it is and is therefore oft overlooked which in essence makes it the most important thing because so many people overlook it and have weak core muscles. I have personal friends that play sports professionally both football (NFL) and basketball as well as some personal friends and colleagues that are now joining coaching staffs. And more friends on the way to the NFL that were drafted or signed this year. When it comes to training, core strength is all the rage in these circles and not just to further develop various skills like shooting but to prevent the injury of extremities.


Its a myth that great shooters just have a stronger wrists or fingers. I mean they do have stronger wrists, forarms, and finger muscles as well. But that's not why someone can successfully shoot fades from 10 feet further and another shooter can fade from 22 feet. You dont make up that ground in a small muscle group. You dont make it look effortless because of THAT kind of superior wrist and finger strenth. The bulk of the ground is covered in core strength. By creating a single motion superfluous continuum from your legs, through the core that is extended through the wrist. Thats where the superior distance and control are born.

Just my 2 cents. Not gospel. I think over time we will see more and more of this coming out of shooting camps and such.

[Rerisen]

Korver is a believer in fine muscle and core training. I remember a bigger piece about it, but a snippet:

Korver gives much credit for his improved shooting to a Santa Monica sports science lab named P3 that pinpointed crucial muscles in his body that were either being neglected or were weakened. Now, before each game, Korver goes through a checklist of plyometric drills using bands to strengthen his core and legs, the necessary lift-off mechanisms that aid his jumper.

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/shaun_powell/02/09/kyle-korver-3-point-contest-all-star/

[alucryts]

There really doesn't seem to be much backing behind your claims of core being so important to being a great shooter over mechanics. Do you have any sources on the effects of gait or core strength to back you up or is it just your opinion?

My experience is mostly anecdotal with science behind it. I am a recreation basketball player, and I was a competitive dancer/gymnast for over 10 years went to state multiple years in high school, then a cheerleader at Northwestern, and an assistant trainer for both mens basketball and mens football at Northwestern, studied athletic medicine/training. So, i have some background/exposure in this but I admit not a lot. Training has changed rapidly over the last 30 years...Every 5 years or so there are major transitions/shifts in training. Right now diet and core are all the rage. And for good reason. We find that almost all freshmen athletes at NU both football and basketball have major deficiencies in core strength so this is an emphasis of the training in recent years. As a female, I had to learn to use my legs more so than a man does when shooting from distance. And transfer that energy from my legs, through my core, to my arm...so this might be easier for my mind to process than it is to explain.

For the record, I never said core was more important than mechanics...what I said was(paraphrasing) that so long as you have decent/good mechanics...its the strengthening of the core that either brings out or creates the elite consistency/balance/and strength in your shot. I described a 32% 3pt shooter vs and 38% 3pt shooter and a modern thought on how to train the 32% shooter to become a 38% shooter. What I meant to say but only implied was that it is the core strength that creates the consistency and strength in the mechanics. Its a chicken-egg argument. Modern athletic training theory is that core strength is the egg for almost any skill/technique performed consistently. That is certainly the case in gymnastics and dance. In basketball, core-mechanics, wrist and finger strength-its all very tied together. I should have said core is more important than almost everyone thinks it is and is therefore oft overlooked which in essence makes it the most important thing because so many people overlook it and have weak core muscles. I have personal friends that play sports professionally both football (NFL) and basketball as well as some personal friends and colleagues that are now joining coaching staffs. And more friends on the way to the NFL that were drafted or signed this year. When it comes to training, core strength is all the rage in these circles and not just to further develop various skills like shooting but to prevent the injury of extremities.


Its a myth that great shooters just have a stronger wrists or fingers. I mean they do have stronger wrists, forarms, and finger muscles as well. But that's not why someone can successfully shoot fades from 10 feet further and another shooter can fade from 22 feet. You dont make up that ground in a small muscle group. You dont make it look effortless because of THAT kind of superior wrist and finger strenth. The bulk of the ground is covered in core strength. By creating a single motion superfluous continuum from your legs, through the core that is extended through the wrist. Thats where the superior distance and control are born.

Just my 2 cents. Not gospel. I think over time we will see more and more of this coming out of shooting camps and such.

When you phrase it like the I can agree with pretty much everything you said. Even as a guy shooting is significantly easier when legs are used.

[lilojmayo]

1. Core
2. Core
3. Core
4. Wrist and finger strength.
5. Shot mechanics (assuming you already decent and looking to improve and dont shoot a tornado)-
6. Leg strength

Not to be a total ass, but this is patently ridiculous.

So if we take someone who has never shot a basketball in his life, but is a world class pilates expert then logically they should have a much better shot than your typical NBA player given that their core is great. Who cares if they have any mechanics at all?

Mechanics and muscle memory are more important than anything else by a factor of a million. Building up all the small muscles you need to make a shot that you might not use for almost anything else is obviously important, but nothing is more important than mechanics and muscle memory.

It very well may be true that for someone at the NBA level that already has really strongly established muscle memory and average mechanics might do better improving all the little muscles than trying to do a full rebuild on their mechanics because they'd need to rework all the learned muscle memory with new mechanics which might be what you mean (ie, it'd take Joakim Noah 3-4 years to fully rebuild his mechanics and retrain his muscles, so it isn't worth sucking for 3-4 years).

Another trick to teach better "touch" is to train with slippery, hard (over-inflated) balls. this works well for both shooting and dribbling. The strongest hands have the softest touch.

Also train with various weighted balls at the same time-some heavier-some lighter-make the brain process the weight of the ball as you catch and shoot it.

basically you make practice conditions way harder than making an actual set shot in a game of basketball.

If this works for you, then it's definitely a "long game" type of project. In the short run, practicing with heavy/light balls just screws up your muscle memory and makes it more difficult to shoot with a proper ball.

I would imagine if you can master shooting a ball of any weight and any grip then you'll likely be better at shooting a proper ball because you'd have to train your muscles to have enough touch to master the various ball weights, but I'd wonder if the gain translates to the proper ball enough relative to other things you could do.

My suspicion would be that unless you were an absolutely elite shooter already that there would be faster gains elsewhere. Though I like training with a heavier ball to build the muscles, but that's a much heavier ball.

Seldem is ever shooting the same set shot from the same place on the floor over and over...keep moving while shooting...both around the arc and depth in front and behind the arc-as you would get shots in a game.

I think this is a great tip.

yeah...the entire premise of the thread is (hiring or not hiring) an (NBA calibre) shooting coach. So we are talking about guys like Derrick Rose, Taj, Perhaps Noah but he is mostly a lost cause. Guys like Kirk as well that could have benefited early in his career. And the NBA is littered with players like Thabo, james Johnson...that would shoot 28-34% from 3 pt range. this type of training is for them not really for a weekend warrior but it would help them too...to get their legs stronger and teach them to use their legs more, translate that to their core without losing much of the energy so that they can use the wrist, finger, and tricep strictly for touch. thabo in particular is a guy that shot more of this shots from the tricep (instead of the legs and core) than any other player I've seen in a long time. By putting up shots, and by virtue of being wide open, even he made 40% for 2 years...then came back to his low 30% once he was hit with more attention on defense.

Do youself a favor right now...Stand up. And lean back, or lean to the left, or lean to the right (as if to avoid a defender) and shoot 5 shots with a basketball from 15 feet away into the waste basket in your house with a relaxed stomach and relaxed core using strictly forarm and wrist, use your shoulder too if you like...now shoot those same shots with a tight and rigid core and fling your core into the shot using your legs as balance(dont jump)...this will alow you to use less forarm and use your hand to just guide the shot. what was easier? what was more accurate? Which motion could you do faster and more accurately?

The reason why the all time great shooters all have a lightning quick release and flick the ball so quickly and effortlessly is because they shoot with their legs and their core...the wrist and tricep is merely used for touch. Their core kind of sling-shot the arm while the hand guides the ball. just like a pitcher's body sling shots his arm. Their legs and core are already in shooting motion before the ball even arrives. The hand just has to catch and flick as the arm is lined up with the rim and with the core that is squared/ing up for the shot. the tight, strong core enures a tight shoulder with little variation. They just need to line the arm up and flick the wrist using most of the energy transered from the legs and core. it helps When fingers and hands are so strong from training (fingertip bowling really helps here) that they have the soft touch to catch the ball and flick up a great shot instantaneously.

Most of the greatest shooters tend to be kind of skinny...odd given is takes a lot of strength but they have the most range and the biggest arc. How? Cuz their core translates the energy from the legs with less loss of energy...and they have very strong hands and wrist to help with the touch.

The training I outline above is to gradually turn a 27-34% shooter into a 34-42% shooter for ever...not for a night...or for a season for that matter. This isn't for a guy at the "Y" who already has bad mechanics and wants to do something once for one night. This is for a guy that gets paid to play or has a passion to teach other guys to shoot. Guys that have decent to good mechanics already on set shots but want to add to the repetoire outside of 18 feet. Or for a guy who's release is always different, who's projectile (shooting arc) is always different. Because its the core that keeps the hips, legs, shoulder, and by extension arm always tightly aligned. its the core muscles that create the proper and consistent form, from there you develop the muscle memory.

There are a lot of strong players, bench a ton, squat a ton, even do a ton of sit ups which is a part of a core exercise but their core isn't completely tied together with their legs and arms to produce a consistent, superfluous, strong shooting motion.

This type of training system would certainly help a weekend warrior, but its more of the long game for a good high school/College/NBA players that is below average at shooting.

Obviously (an NBA) near or sub 30% 3 pt shooter is doing something wrong that others do better. You dont think Rose puts up 3pt shots? Tons of them in practice? He just isn't training right. His form and gait is that of a 30% 3 pt shooter... Likely, Rose and guys like him have a lazy shooting motion because the mind is also lazy/unfocused during the shot. So you train a lazy mind and body by making it think and work make them naturally learn to focus more by changing the ball conditions. Quickly-passing various balls, some slippery surfaced, some grippy, slightly heavier and lighter balls...they catch and shoot. And must process very quickly all the conditions of the ball during the shooting motion vs...just shooting with a heavy ball for 100 shots, then a normal ball. You also traint hem to use their legs and core tranfers better by using extremely heavy balls and shooting from distance-like 30-35 feet.

A poor shooter likley has poor mechanics. So you deprogram the shooting mechanic muscles first by using varied balls, especially heavy and slippery at various intervals-depths etc. Another way to simulate a heavy ball is to do weight training prior to shooting drills-exhaust the tricep, forarm and legs during a weight training before shooting drills...then the player must use the core to shoot because all the other muscle groups are fatigued. . Or use the heavier ball which makes them use their legs and core more(even if inefficiently at first). Or do it different ways on different days. Practice shooting from 30 feet with proper from. Eventually they learn to tie the core together with the energy from the legs and translate that to the arm and hand better. This develops touch...what we call a shooters roll, or shooters bounce comes from developing the strength necessary to shoot and learning how to translate that strength to the fingertips with a "soft touch"

Eg. When you shoot from NBA range with a heavy ball, you must learn to shoot with your legs and not lose the power generated from your legs in your core before it gets to the arm and fingertips. The core is what must translate, further develop then transfer the energy from the legs. This is why all great shooter rise up higher than most below average shooters...just watch a ton of Bird footage, Reggie footage, Dirk Footage, Ray Allen footage, or short guys like Nate....just watch the core, you will see a pattern in their core, their backs usually end up very erect-way more so that other shooters pre-shot. Erect and Arched backward as the back muscles (traps, delts n lats, help bring the back up high and erect...then as they are about to release-simultaneously they use their chest, abs,obliques, serratus, and chest to sling shot their body toward the hoop...the core acts as a sling shot for the arm...just like it does for a pitcher or QB, or hitter at the plate. And most people dont see it happening in basketball because it is oh so slight forever subtle Its a very subtle whipping motion that below average shooters seldem develop enough strength to do properly or they dont have the ability to translate or transfer that energy superfluously to the fingertips. The tripep, forarm, and muscles in the hand are strictly for touch...you are not suppose to get much power from them. This technique(the erect back-slight whipping motion of the torso as the shot is released is especially important when shooting from deep over an outstretched NBA defender-especially if fading away, even slightly. And sometimes the torso is whipping from the side(ish) Dirk step back, or during a turnaround fade either direction. I see guys all the time trying that move, a turn around fade and they cant throw the ball more than 12 feet...because they think that the shot come from the wrist and tricep...they cant get their core or really their legs involved. I'm sure you tried this shot before and cant even hit the rim beyond 6-7 feet. Its because your core is not involved. You are shooting all tricep. Dirk and Bird and Durrant dont make that shot from 20 feet all day long because they have stronger tricpes than you. They make that shot because they are translating and transferring the energy better from their legs into their core and transferring it to the hand and then have the strong fingertips to guide the release with a softer touch than you.

conversely take rose's shot. Because he uses a lot of tricep, he usually shoots a line drive, but even his line drive shot has a varied projectile arc. its varied because he is jumping too high...often shooting at or well after his peak of his jump-Thereby losing all that energy) and making up for it with some core and a lot of tricep. Part of Derricks problem is that he is a mentally weak shooter, therefore. He is mentally weak as a shooter and therefore desires more space to shoot vs favoring his technique. he knows...shooting with his style, that he needs clearance to get his shot off...he cant lean back and fade away when shooting because he shoots with too much arm and not enough legs and core transfer. So about the only time derrick looks decent shooting is when he has the time to step into a wide open shot(likely because that is how he like most players get their reps in)...He also looks good shooting from 10 feet or less where you are suppose to shoot with more wrist and fingertips as a source of energy vs. guiding the energy from the core and legs when shooting from deep. And when you shoot the way he does, using too much tricep as a source so he cant be bumped, or nudge because he has no touch (because he is shooting with so much arm). Without having a better way to state it...he shoots "scarred" or without confidence or insecurely...which leads to his over emotional state or approach to the game. He is not a magic johnson out there nor a larry bird or even a chris paul. Rose plays like Nate Robinson without Nate Robinson's supoerior shooting mechanics and core strength. Which sometimes works to Rose's benefit at the end of games, in a tight game, everyone's SNS has kicked in, emotions are higher, epi and nor epi release is higher..Rose is already in this state during games so he is more comfortable in this state and can actually focus better than most other players...thats why he is one of our best shooters at the end of games but thats another story altogether.

But mostly, A good shooting coach would say his lack of confidence create creates a mentally lazy approach-which leads to a lazy looking shot. Again, look a ray allen, Bird, Reggie, Korver montage of 50 shots each...then do the same with Rose...Which guy just looks stronger? yet we know Derrick can likely lift way more weights than all those guys-yet they shoot "stronger".


The biggest way to see if a shooter has a week core transfer of energy is when they often miss to the left or right and are really short on shots. it should almost never happen, once you have a solid core transfer, with excellent hand strength and good mechanics you seldom miss to the left or right unless the ball slips(but this is why you also practice with slippery balls)...-good strong shooters are generally either slightly too deep or too short.

training with slippery balls teaches you that you cant squeeze a slippery sweaty ball-it will slip right out of even micheal jordan's hands(and his hands were very large and strong). you must learn to cup a slippery ball in the hand, almost balancing it with light pressure and also be able to shoot that way. Training this way is not as hard as it sounds. Nor does it really throw you off except maybe that night. Maybe. You learn to shoot under various conditions when training. On game nights, there is always a 1-2 hour shoot around period to re-adjust to both game balls, game conditions, and your normal shooting mechanics. In fact thats what this kind of training does...teaches your body to problem solve quickly and get to where you want to be at game speed.

And believe it or not the NBA ball is not always the same...just like football gate with Brady...a slight variation in the ball happens ALL THE TIME. NBA arenas tend to be more humid and colder near the floor if there ice underneath. There are dryer climates like pheonix where the ball is more slippery until some sweat gets on it, etc. More humid climates...however slight...it affect the ball. Also the pressure can change slightly. The ball can be sweaty one minute and dry the next if a ref grabs and wipes. The ball is (Slightly) lighter in more north latitude, also lighter at higher altitude, as well as based on how much moisture the ball absorbs during the course of a game makes the ball heavier. So training with a slight variation of ball weights is a good thing.

So "shot training" in a varied interval type of cycle is actually better for muscle memory, not worse. It helps you make game time shooting decisions faster and better.

Also, training to shoot and for muscle memory is a new territory. Studies began to show that the bodies muscles and mind responds better(over time) to varied interval training vs doing the same thing over and over the same way. We are beginning to see that muscle memory like a golf swing and tennis serve, etc that the mind and body train and learn better and faster over time if the conditions are varied. even though it seems like those are pure muscle memory actions that are the same every time-in fact they are not.

Eg. Golf...you never know on what day you are going to be leaning into a 30 mph wind or if one is at your back...so the guy that trains for that is not only more ready for that but also just more ready in general for varied conditions. and golf and bowling are 2 eg.s of the most extreme (almost purely) muscle memory sports that exist. various, oil patterns in bowling affect not only line-but rev rate, ball speed, etc etc. You train for different conditions in bowling. And no sport...not one sport on the planet save maybe gun shooting or archery rival bowling in terms of muscle memory...these sports require the least variation. In basketball, there is a ton more of variation in the approach just before the release. off a screen, curl, fade, turn around, stepping into shot, off the dribble, giant killer, etc...during all these shots there is a jump where the legs create the energy...legs are attached to the body...in the body...the core muscle either transfer the energy from the legs with efficiency or poorly and that energy is lost in the body before it gets to the arm.

So you train this core to get stronger and you train the core to transfer the energy better by varying the conditions especially using heavy balls during training and shooting from extreme distance.

Also, during a basketball game you will constantly be bumped mid-air, or a hand on your hip throwing off your balance. You train for this. And when the core and legs are stronger, you use less arm. its only the guys that use too much arm end up throwing up wild shots when slightly bumped because your arm muscles are so tight...no touch...but if your arm is loose, because your core is stronger you can still shoot with more touch even when bumped or fading away from defenders.

So in advanced shooting drills you simulate mid air bumbs, a push in the back, etc. The guy with the strongest core that using more of the force from his legs and strictly using the hand, wrist, and tricep for touch is going to make more of those shots.

So we are slightly touching on shot psychology here as well. Developing that more confident shooter is part of this...

basically, I am speaking of problem based learning applied to shooting mechanics and body training specifically for shooting under various conditions versus old school repetition and memorization of facts and motions.

Most NBA players do practice this by the way...they do it by playing against each other in pick up games...even one one games...but believe it or not they play pick up games similar to how guys at the YMCA play...the best bal handler or the guy who gets the rebound seldom passes and dribbles down the court and attempts a one on one move...maybe...just maybe there will be an outlet pass if a C grabs the rebound and maybe there might be a second pass if there is an opportunity to dish a magic johnson like assist. Seriously, they dont really practice/simulate actual NBA games like one would think they do. its basically way worse than summer league.

And then they put up shots like you see in pregame...like you've seen kids in high school, like you've seen, kids at your college do. few players if ever work with an actual shot doctor. But some have. and some do there own variation of this. it works. reggie miller has often spoke of it. Some NBA players did this type of training differently and didn't realize they did it. Like Kenny Smith who shoveled his out door court in NY and played out side in the winter time with a frozen ball. Which helped train him at a young age to shoot with excellent core transfer because too strong of hand and wrist and the ball would slip off the fingers.

Also, the old NBA ball was leather and slippery for about a quarter...then it got wet with sweat(which made it easier to grip) (and also heavier), and then it got warm due to being bounced so much which also gave it more "feel"...in essence old school guys trained in very much varied conditions like this by virtue of using real leather balls and training facilities that were old and tattered maybe not heated as well...Nowadays every team has a picture perfect training facility, perfect temp, year round, and maybe 200-300 brand new balls per month. have you evr shot and old NBA game leather ball? In the 70's and early 80's team were hemorrhaging money. It was not uncommon to have older balls in the practice facilities. These balls were really hard and really slippery when cold, and then complete different once warm from use and got some warm sweat on them. Nowadays, practice game balls and practice facilities are nearly flawless from most high schools on up.

that said, more and more players practice (pure) shooting now as opposed to scoring off of your own dribble. And NBA and Euro teams seldom sign guys like Noah that just cant really shoot correctly at all. there is an emphasis on shooting now that the league has never seen.

Anyways...

Cliffnotes. What are the main things you would do to improve Derrick Rose shot ?

[art_barbie]

Cliffnotes. What are the main things you would do to improve Derrick Rose shot ?

I would fix his approach to the game philosophically before I tried to fix his shot. I think his shooting percentages would increase to at least average if he simply matured as a player and had a better approach to attacking defenses.

1. get everyone else going so he essentially can take better shots.


Not just for assist totals but actually get them really going...get them hot...so that opposing defenses start to really key on multiple teammates of his...this will open the court us for derrick...which will help him "take better shots" as the court will be more open...this will increase his scoring efficiency. he needs to believe in this process of playmaking. Magic Johnson and Steve Nash shot such high percentage in part because defenses could never key up or wind up or ride a hip or "time" their shots because defenders were always expecting a pass instead. I can watch a game at home on TV and correctly guess when 95% of the players in the NBA are going to shoot. The only guy on the Bulls that is hard to predict when he shoots or passes is Mirotic...thats because he plays like a Bird and Magic...eyes always on making a play while in position and ready to score themselves. This is actually Lebron's only on court weakness-his body language...you know when Lebron is going to pass and when he is going to shoot...However, lebron is SOOO good that it almost doesn't matter but you can still sense/see it. Thats why elite defenders (who are usually micro-readers of temperment) give Lebron so much trouble. Rose has this predictability about his game which makes it eay to time his shots...thats why dwight used to own him and now lebron does. And this is why I bring up Moss...Moss could have easily been the best WR and potentially football player of all time...but he took just about every single play off that wasn't a play for him...just watch rose when he passes the ball...he is not a good 3 pt shooter...so if he makes an entry pass he should take himeself out of a play, make a down cut to the weak side, and allow shooters to come over and surround the post player...this makes it more effective when a post plyer ball fakes to an actual shooter instead of Rose-defenses want Rose to shoot the 3 ball...if rose clears, we get a better shot if the ball is kicked out...go watch any game last year...rose refuses to take himself out of plays. this is all part of not getting teammates going....sometimes you get them going by making a hard cut and just being a decoy...but then again, that doesn't show up in the box scores.

If Rose does these things his mechanics will be superbly better because he will be taking cleaner shots with in the rhythm of the offense. By virtue of knowing what is a good or appropriate shot he would likely become a 34% 3pt shooter over night. he looks good/decent when he steps into a 3 point shot as a spot up shooter.

He jumps too high in the mid range game...and shoots at his peak...a classic non-shooter thing to do and if he sticks around in the league long enough you will likely see him break this habit by the time he is 32 years old (hopefully younger). But it doesnt hurt as much when you have bad form closer to the basket...the closer you get there comes a point where its all about the wrist.

In terms of technical shooting mechanics, Rose has a gait issue. Its like he wants to look, run, or stand a certain way which makes his gait is off. its a thing lots of young boys and girls do and it stays with them somtetimes. its not natural-belly and chest is out to far, back arched. People will laugh but almost everyone has tried walk or talk like someone else. it leads to unnatural movements. lack of fluidity...until of course you master it. As Kobe basically mastered many of MJ's mannerisms, skills, shots, etc.

Something is going on there with Rose though that isn't working for him the way the MJ thing worked for Kobe. it likely plays a role in his lack of proper shooting fundamentals. its a priority to him...something that is always in his mind...he has a desire to perform and stand out. He thinks he can do both look a certain way and make winning plays. And very very few athletes have been able to win/make winning plays consistently while looking like a balarina or fred astaire...I'm talking walter Payton /sugar ray leanard/ Ali/ Jordan/ Magic/kobe. These guys were all very aware of how they "looked." But it didn't take away from their game. In Rose's case it takes away from his game instead of adding to it. he is not the first athlete to fall prone to this and wont be the last. helping him understanding that using correct fundamentals is a beautiful thing and not as boring as he may think itis would be a great place to start. he is an elite talent potentially and you want him to run and play with confidence...so you cant berate him...he needs better guidance to help him go where he is going to go anyway...help his game mature-just hopefully while he is young and still palying for the bulls.

Then he needs to learn the difference between a 15 foot jump shot which has a lot more wrist and finger flicking as a primary source of energy and a 3 pt point shot. If the the strongest and deepest shooter in the league whoot them differently so should Rose. Often Rose shoots the 3 ball like a 15 footer...which is why it is so flat. I would guess he hits 3 pointers like this at about a 20% rate or less. he should never shoot a 3 ball like this unless desperation to beat the clock...but even then he should learn to shoot it differently.

thats where you start.

From there he needs to do touch drills. Set up 20-30 foot ladders to shoot over to produce a higher arc...use heavier balls to help teach him to be a suprfluous single motion shooter...you cant shoot a heavy ball without your legs and with a hitch. right now derrick has a slight hitch at the top just before the release. the use of a very heavy ball over time can deprogram the hitch.

Deprogram out the old kinks and then develop a consistent and proper set 3 pt shot.

[johnnyvann840]

You know what Derrick needs? ... the opposite of all that. He needs to forget about all that crap. He needs to get everybody out of his freaking head and he needs to get back to playing like he was in 2011-12. He was different that season from the MVP year before it. Smarter... he made everybody better. The team was historically great when he was healthy.. probably favorites to win it all in my eyes, that year.

Derrick just has to be OK from 3 pt.. .330-.350 is just fine.... hell, in 2011-12 he shot .313 from 3 pt, was less reckless.. that year he played hurt most the season, stopped relying on athleticism as much (this was PRE-ACL) and I thought he was a better basketball player than his MVP year and the team was the best Bulls team since the dynasty, by FAR, when he was healthy. Then he tore his ACL.


I mean, Jesus. This man was the MVP of the NBA. Then he got hurt. Then he missed way too much time. And he bulked up way too much, IMO. To simplify it anyway.

[art_barbie]

I mean, Jesus. This man was the MVP of the NBA. Then he got hurt. Then he missed way too much time. And he bulked up way too much, IMO. To simplify it anyway.

So you do see all that. Good, thats the beginning.

He was MVP by virtue of being quicker than nearly everyone in the game...he had only moderate skill levels compared to most league MVP's, which is why he needs a new role to go with a different approach. Or he needs to develop elite skill sets.

[fleet]

I think core strength is a basic building block for any athletic skill. Even golfers are using core strength programs these days. I don't know why this is mildly controversial that a great NBA shooter should have it. Where it fits on your list of priorities is up to you, but it is becoming clear that it is high on the list.

[fleet]

Obviously (an NBA) near or sub 30% 3 pt shooter is doing something wrong that others do better. You dont think Rose puts up 3pt shots? Tons of them in practice? He just isn't training right. His form and gait is that of a 30% 3 pt shooter...

Most of your quite long post below contradicted the only thing I really meant to pick on which is that it's fairly obvious great core strength isn't even close to the most important thing in shooting a basketball and clearly isn't as important as good mechanics where you initially had it as three times as important as good mechanics.

Perhaps what you meant is simply that core strength is frequently overlooked, which I would agree with.

I did find many of your other points/tips interesting though, so thanks

Core strength is probably necessary to be consistent with your mechanics, especially while fatigued and well defended. To put it another way, core strength is a priority in order to maintain your good stroke during games.

[CharityStripe34]

You know what Derrick needs? ... the opposite of all that. He needs to forget about all that crap. He needs to get everybody out of his freaking head and he needs to get back to playing like he was in 2011-12. He was different that season from the MVP year before it. Smarter... he made everybody better. The team was historically great when he was healthy.. probably favorites to win it all in my eyes, that year.

His two seasons from 2011 and 2012 were exciting but he was still relying far too much on his athleticism. Rose still has plenty of room to develop as a passer, floor-general and pick-and-roll player. He's still considerably athletic for his position (probably top seven) now he just needs to hone his game. I think the only way he returns to All-Starish level is if he matures as a PG. We have 2-3 proven scorers (two of which are All-Stars, other a blossoming rookie) next to him who can certainly make Derrick's job much easier

This "let Derrick be Derrick" mentality is maddening. I always respect players who try to add to their repertoire and hone their game. Rose needs to become more playmaker and score more efficiently. If Rose comes back this season and resorts to barreling down into a crowded lane and either puts up a difficult floater or resorts to the dreaded "jump pass" we may as well trade him.

I do agree with you he showed definite signs of improvement as a playmaker in 2012, and especially leading into the playoffs that Bulls team looked dangerous, which makes that first knee-injury all the more tragic (he had a near triple-double I think in that first playoff game). This is going to be the season to see how Rose will approach his own game and how he will fit in Hoiberg's offense where the ball must move freely. Too much of Thib's offense relied on isolation if post-ups weren't available. I think Rose has potential to be a very good player again and especially in a "pace and space" system like Hoiberg's (easier buckets in transition and getting into early offense much more often).

[Risk Addict]

I think (core) strength is overstated as it relates to NBA players, who are generally extremely tall and can easily shoot the ball anywhere. For smaller men and women it is definitely more important. Guys like dirk, kukoc, etc are using mostly wrist and fingers to get the ball to do what they want. Stronger cores aren't really necessary. A guy like derrick probably has a super strong core yet still isn't good at shooting.

Yeah, if anything I'd say the most important "area" for strength in NBA is lower extremities/gluts. Lowers the center of gravity. Improves jumping. Tired legs = poor lift = poor shooting. Hard to back guys down in the paint. It makes no sense to me that all these basketball players work on their biceps over the off season? You have guys like Ben Gordon who work on his "guns" but that didn't really help his game at all! Derrick Rose now has a stronger upper body and has lost a ton of athleticism/jumping... and I'm sure some of that is his knee.. but he was dunking in USA camp a year ago and rarely dunked this regular season. If your non-jumping muscles weigh more, your jumping muscles need to be more powerful than before to get same output as before.

Not to mention the opportunity cost of time spent working on bicep muscles to make them look so pretty; time the players could be working on gluts/hamstrings/quads/legs.

[Risk Addict]

Obviously (an NBA) near or sub 30% 3 pt shooter is doing something wrong that others do better. You dont think Rose puts up 3pt shots? Tons of them in practice? He just isn't training right. His form and gait is that of a 30% 3 pt shooter...

Most of your quite long post below contradicted the only thing I really meant to pick on which is that it's fairly obvious great core strength isn't even close to the most important thing in shooting a basketball and clearly isn't as important as good mechanics where you initially had it as three times as important as good mechanics.

Perhaps what you meant is simply that core strength is frequently overlooked, which I would agree with.

I did find many of your other points/tips interesting though, so thanks

1. its the strong core muscles that creates th etight frame which then gives you the sound mechanics.

2. one can certainly develop poor mechanics or good mechanics with a strong core.
So the goal is obviously good mechanics. but its also the strong core that help develop good mechanics and balance, the superfluous one motion shot. most great shooters are one motion shooters.

3. The core is the part between the legs and arm. The power comes from the legs, the core must transefer that energy efficiently. when fading away from defenders, the core must act as a sling shot to whip th earm forward...the stronger the core, the more efficient this action.

This bolded portion is inaccurate. This concept of "transferring energy" is nonsense, at least in the literal sense. A muscle is a discreet organ. It cannot transfer energy to another muscle. I don't necessarily disagree that the core is important, but the biomechanics of why it is important is very different than you state. The core muscles are important for stabilization of the skeleton, which is paramount to good form and technique. The core muscles, unlike the other muscles involved in shooting, are working in an isometric state, not contracting and "slinging" or "whipping" anything... at least not ideally. If you are shooting a fadeaway, good core muscles should keep your body straight with your angle of backwards force. You aren't jumping back and then doing a forward crunch with your abdomen and moving the body more perpendicular to the floor to bring your arms closer to the basket... Look at form of great fadeaway shooters and this is obvious.

I don't work in athletic training, but I did major in kinesiology at U of I, took classes in bioenergetics of movement, biomechanics or movement, analysis and performance of movement skills, physics I and II, o-chem I and II, anatomy and neurophysiologic basis of movement and got A's in all. Now I am a medical doctor at Duke. I do think this qualifies me to comment on this topic, even though I do not post here often.