Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
Moderators: HomoSapien, Ice Man, dougthonus, Tommy Udo 6 , DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat, Payt10, RedBulls23, coldfish, fleet, AshyLarrysDiaper, kulaz3000, Michael Jackson
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
-
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,352
- And1: 757
- Joined: Dec 30, 2013
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
Dunleavy unless Snell really has put it together. I like the idea of having more athleticism in a guy like Snell off the bench, though. Much like Taj Gibson coming off the bench at the 4. It's a nice boost to have as a spell. Gives Hoiberg more to work with throughout the night.
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 5,279
- And1: 1,845
- Joined: Aug 25, 2014
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
Let's say Snell reaches his potential, or just becomes a good rotational player that's good enough to be a starter. Why can't he be in the Luol Deng role, and be the glue guy for the 2nd unit?
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
- Flopper
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,520
- And1: 2,480
- Joined: Jun 05, 2010
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
Snell if he can improve his PnR defense and become a bit more consistent offensively. Otherwise we should stick with white Mike.
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
-
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,352
- And1: 757
- Joined: Dec 30, 2013
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
bullsRlife wrote:Let's say Snell reaches his potential, or just becomes a good rotational player that's good enough to be a starter. Why can't he be in the Luol Deng role, and be the glue guy for the 2nd unit?
He can (and I think that's the hope with Snell). He just won't give you what Deng gave you both numberswise and as a player. Deng is not great, but I don't think most people understand how decent he was as/is an all-around player. He played/plays above his head, which as of now, you can't say or see about Snell.
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 5,279
- And1: 1,845
- Joined: Aug 25, 2014
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
ADDinChicago wrote:bullsRlife wrote:Let's say Snell reaches his potential, or just becomes a good rotational player that's good enough to be a starter. Why can't he be in the Luol Deng role, and be the glue guy for the 2nd unit?
He can (and I think that's the hope with Snell). He just won't give you what Deng gave you both numberswise and as a player. Deng is not great, but I don't think most people understand how decent he was as/is an all-around player. He played/plays above his head, which as of now, you can't say or see about Snell.
I know, and we don't need Snell to be as good as Deng, because of Jimmy. We just need him to bring very good defense with a reliable 3 ball. He needs to be out 3 and D guy. With McDermott, you're just getting a 3 guy. With Dunleavy, you're getting a 3 and kind of a D guy, but not the type of D that can suffocate teams.
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
- CharityStripe34
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,562
- And1: 5,726
- Joined: Dec 01, 2014
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
I think Snell has a higher ceiling as an all-around two way threat than McDermott. As far as who I see starting, it's Dunleavy but I can definitely see Snell playing considerably more as the season wears on, even in crunch time for defensive purposes.
"Wes, Hill, Ibaka, Allen, Nwora, Brook, Pat, Ingles, Khris are all slow-mo, injury prone ... a sandcastle waiting for playoff wave to get wrecked. A castle with no long-range archers... is destined to fall. That is all I have to say."-- FOTIS
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
- JeremyB0001
- General Manager
- Posts: 7,582
- And1: 810
- Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
I think it will be Dunleavy and I don't think it's particularly close. I think that Hoiberg is all about floor spacing and no one on the team can compete with Dunleavy in that respect. I suspect that Hoiberg played a role in the big push to re-sign Dunleavy. If you value floor spacing the way that Hoiberg does, it makes the most sense to start Dunleavy and Mirotic to open up the paint for Derrick and Jimmy. The lineups with the Dunleavy-Mirotic pairing were by far the team's best last season.
Something odd has seemingly happened to raise fans' opinions of Snell during this offseason. I can't figure out what. Perhaps people think that Hoiberg will give him a larger role and that he will improve with increased playing time? Or perhaps people think that Snell will fit better in Hoiberg's system? Perhaps people are undervaluing Dunleavy even more than in the past? Regardless, Snell has been a fringe rotation player thus far in his career. He was a late-first-round pick who was projected to be drafted even later. Entering camp, I would imagine that he'll be competing with McDermott and Moore for a rotation spot. He will need a leap in performance to carve out a major role on the team.
Something odd has seemingly happened to raise fans' opinions of Snell during this offseason. I can't figure out what. Perhaps people think that Hoiberg will give him a larger role and that he will improve with increased playing time? Or perhaps people think that Snell will fit better in Hoiberg's system? Perhaps people are undervaluing Dunleavy even more than in the past? Regardless, Snell has been a fringe rotation player thus far in his career. He was a late-first-round pick who was projected to be drafted even later. Entering camp, I would imagine that he'll be competing with McDermott and Moore for a rotation spot. He will need a leap in performance to carve out a major role on the team.
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
- Rerisen
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 105,369
- And1: 25,052
- Joined: Nov 23, 2003
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
JeremyB0001 wrote:Something odd has seemingly happened to raise fans' opinions of Snell during this offseason.
It's no mystery what the 'something' is, the narrative is that Thibs held every single player on the team back, even ones that weren't very good.
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 11,732
- And1: 3,408
- Joined: Aug 16, 2001
- Location: state of perpetual confusion
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
Dunleavy probably. Dunleavy's really good.
Until the actual truth is more important to you than what you believe, you will never recognize the truth.
- Blatantly stolen from truebluefan
- Blatantly stolen from truebluefan
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 24,938
- And1: 7,005
- Joined: Aug 10, 2004
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
One of Niko or Doug start for spacing and shooting purposes. If Niko then MDJ next to him as too much youth in the starting lineup can hurt.
I don't think Snell has any shot at starting at SF as his mins will come at backup SG. I think Dougie will be our super scoring 6th man. MDJ plays the expanded Bogans role.
Rose//Jimmy//MDJ//Niko//Noah
At 4:00 mark... Gasol and Dougie for Noah and MDJ
2nd Q... Moore, Snell, Taj for Jimmy, Niko, Rose
Hottest lineup plays w Rose and Jimmy to close games.
I don't think Snell has any shot at starting at SF as his mins will come at backup SG. I think Dougie will be our super scoring 6th man. MDJ plays the expanded Bogans role.
Rose//Jimmy//MDJ//Niko//Noah
At 4:00 mark... Gasol and Dougie for Noah and MDJ
2nd Q... Moore, Snell, Taj for Jimmy, Niko, Rose
Hottest lineup plays w Rose and Jimmy to close games.
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 13,747
- And1: 468
- Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
It will be MDJ, but I hope Tony can take his starting spot by mid-season.
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
- CharityStripe34
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,562
- And1: 5,726
- Joined: Dec 01, 2014
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
Rerisen wrote:JeremyB0001 wrote:Something odd has seemingly happened to raise fans' opinions of Snell during this offseason.
It's no mystery what the 'something' is, the narrative is that Thibs held every single player on the team back, even ones that weren't very good.
Personally I think that's simplistic. I feel Dunleavy should start as he is an elite 3-pt shooter, something neither Snell nor McDermott is at this point. Floor spacing is huge, especially in Hoiberg's offense. Out of Snell and McDermott, though, I think Snell has a significantly higher ceiling as an all-around player. He can shoot, slash and make a play for a teammate out of the pick and roll. Adding to that is the fact that he's shown he can be an above-average perimeter defender, something McDermott will really struggle with from what I can see. It was interesting watching Snell's second-year summer league highlights and then McDermott's. Snell looked dominant and the game looked easy for him, whereas McDermott gained success mostly on hustle.
I wouldn't be shocked if Snell's importance increased throughout the season and he played important (crunch time) minutes. Then again, I wouldn't be shocked if he just remained a middling rotational player either. It's anyone's guess.
"Wes, Hill, Ibaka, Allen, Nwora, Brook, Pat, Ingles, Khris are all slow-mo, injury prone ... a sandcastle waiting for playoff wave to get wrecked. A castle with no long-range archers... is destined to fall. That is all I have to say."-- FOTIS
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
- Flopper
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,520
- And1: 2,480
- Joined: Jun 05, 2010
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
Rerisen wrote:JeremyB0001 wrote:Something odd has seemingly happened to raise fans' opinions of Snell during this offseason.
It's no mystery what the 'something' is, the narrative is that Thibs held every single player on the team back, even ones that weren't very good.
Many players improve significantly in their third year, so it's possible that he could live up to those expectations. No doubt Thibs will get some unfair criticism if that happens though.
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
- Mobby
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,168
- And1: 424
- Joined: Mar 25, 2011
- Location: on the Flip Side
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
I actually wouldn't be too surprised if Snell made that big 3rd year jump and vaulted into the starting spot or being the jack-of-all-trades, high-rotation guy on the second unit, at least on the wing. I'd be more surprised if he didn't get his share of minutes, regardless of role; I'm thinking 24-26 if he's not starting.
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
-
- Forum Mod - Bulls
- Posts: 24,939
- And1: 13,592
- Joined: Apr 19, 2011
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
Rerisen wrote:It's no mystery what the 'something' is, the narrative is that Thibs held every single player on the team back, even ones that weren't very good.
Plus Snell still enjoys a bit of rookie-contract love. Plus Tony did improve a lot from Year 1 to Year 2, going from being awful to just kinda bad. If he makes a similar leap forward in Year 3, which is certainly possible, then he would be kinda good -- a legit rotation player for a strong team.
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
-
- Ballboy
- Posts: 10
- And1: 4
- Joined: Apr 24, 2015
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
I'd have to agree with someone's earlier post where they mentioned that in all liklihood Snell's primary roll will be as Jimmy's SG backup, with a lessor role as backup SF. I, as everyone else, am hopeful that McDermott takes a huge step forward given increased PT. If last season is any indication, the injury bug will happen again this season so there will be a whole lot of shuffling going on anyway. One other thing, to the poster that commented his disbelief that folks here saw something in Snell's game that he obviously didn't, he should re-visit last season's stats for Snell (Jan -Mar) when Butler was out. He performed well when he knew he'd be playing and would be counted on to produce. When he did play after everyone was back he seemed tenative to be as aggresive playing with the starters....just my take.
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
-
- Forum Mod - Bulls
- Posts: 24,939
- And1: 13,592
- Joined: Apr 19, 2011
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
Tony picked it up as the season went along, including in the playoffs, but he has a lot of work ahead of him if he wishes to be considered starting material.
In that January-March stretch that you mention, he had games of 2, 5, 7, 7, 8, 2, 8, 4, 8, 0, 8, and 2 points -- as a starter. About half of Tony's starts, he did not score double digits. Those droughts have gotta be fixed, in a big way.
In that January-March stretch that you mention, he had games of 2, 5, 7, 7, 8, 2, 8, 4, 8, 0, 8, and 2 points -- as a starter. About half of Tony's starts, he did not score double digits. Those droughts have gotta be fixed, in a big way.
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 20,921
- And1: 8,323
- Joined: Oct 02, 2010
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
We can talk about athleticism and potential all we want. the fact is that Tony Snell has not been a good basketball player and McD didn't show a thing in the VERY limited opportunity he had. You don't put guys in starting positions who played poorly over proven veterans. This is somewhat the same argument with Mirotic starting. The difference with Niko is that he played better than either of those 2 (he wasn't bad) and whereas Tony Snell had 21 or 3 games that got everyone excited, Niko had a much longer stretch of looking competent. But Niko also has tougher competition to beat out for a starting spot.
Unless Snell or McD go wild in the preseason and simultaneously MDJ looks like his career is dropping off a cliff I don't see any reason why you would start Snell or McD.
This is ESPECIALLY true because they both have seemed like timid players to this point. I keep seeing "start them to give them confidence" arguments. The worst thing that could happen for those two players confidence is to insert them as starters on a team expected to contend for the Eastern title, and have them get off to a poor start. Hoiberg has already indicated they will both get minutes and a chance to prove themselves. Let them do that, with less pressure and a less obvious hook when they have a bad game or stretch of games. If they perform slowly increase their role. If one of them really jumps out you can still play him 25 minutes whether he starts or not. By the end of the season, if one of them makes a leap forward then you have your starter for 2016-2017.
Unless Snell or McD go wild in the preseason and simultaneously MDJ looks like his career is dropping off a cliff I don't see any reason why you would start Snell or McD.
This is ESPECIALLY true because they both have seemed like timid players to this point. I keep seeing "start them to give them confidence" arguments. The worst thing that could happen for those two players confidence is to insert them as starters on a team expected to contend for the Eastern title, and have them get off to a poor start. Hoiberg has already indicated they will both get minutes and a chance to prove themselves. Let them do that, with less pressure and a less obvious hook when they have a bad game or stretch of games. If they perform slowly increase their role. If one of them really jumps out you can still play him 25 minutes whether he starts or not. By the end of the season, if one of them makes a leap forward then you have your starter for 2016-2017.
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 5,279
- And1: 1,845
- Joined: Aug 25, 2014
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
JeremyB0001 wrote:I think it will be Dunleavy and I don't think it's particularly close. I think that Hoiberg is all about floor spacing and no one on the team can compete with Dunleavy in that respect. I suspect that Hoiberg played a role in the big push to re-sign Dunleavy. If you value floor spacing the way that Hoiberg does, it makes the most sense to start Dunleavy and Mirotic to open up the paint for Derrick and Jimmy. The lineups with the Dunleavy-Mirotic pairing were by far the team's best last season.
Something odd has seemingly happened to raise fans' opinions of Snell during this offseason. I can't figure out what. Perhaps people think that Hoiberg will give him a larger role and that he will improve with increased playing time? Or perhaps people think that Snell will fit better in Hoiberg's system? Perhaps people are undervaluing Dunleavy even more than in the past? Regardless, Snell has been a fringe rotation player thus far in his career. He was a late-first-round pick who was projected to be drafted even later. Entering camp, I would imagine that he'll be competing with McDermott and Moore for a rotation spot. He will need a leap in performance to carve out a major role on the team.
It has nothing to do with the handful of 20+ pts. games he had last year, and showed a very good 3 ball when he's on, and when his defense on it's A game. The guy was checking very good offensive players, and doing a good job. When Snell's in the lineup with the starters, we just look faster overall on offense and defense.
No more gimmicky crap. I want athletes at every position in the starting lineup. That's how you win nowadays. You can't afford to have Matt Bonnar's in your starting lineup. Look at the Spurs. They have athletes at every position in their starting lineup, besides their center that happens to be one of the greatest players of all time, and still a beast at anchoring the D.
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 11,393
- And1: 7,783
- Joined: Aug 02, 2008
Re: Who starts on the opposite wing from Jimmy?
Nothing against Snell or McDermott, but they're unproven and out stating lineup was crazy good last year with Dunleavy starting.