OT: TMZ - Rose being sued/accused of drugging and gang raping former GF

[Polynice4Pippen]

For the average Joe, sure. For a celebrity? Different story.

Not really. How many celebrities were accused of rape?

Off the top of my head:

Tyson
Kobe
Chris Brown
Cosby
Cee-Lo
R.Kelly
Jameis Winston
Sheen
Woody Allen
2Pac
Big Ben
Sean Penn

I'm sure there's a lot more.

Juwan Howard. And he won a defamation of character lawsuit against the woman who falsely accused him as well.

[BoozerRoNo]

The issue here that she is including 3 men. Its much easily to lie about one man raping someone but three is hard to do because all it takes is one guy to prove he was not near the location she is claiming happened to prove she is lying. She is also saying there were a lot of phone calls and text messenges exchanged that can prove her to be lying.

Unless she is just that dumb to think she has a chance of winning after her lies are much harder to prove than if she was just lying and saying Derrick Rose was the only one involved in raping her.

If it can be proven that Ryan Allen really did call her a month later. My question is why was he calling his best friends side chick if his friend was done with the girl unless he had a guilty conscience about something or was interested in her (which I doubt)?

[League Circles]

The issue here that she is including 3 men. Its much easily to lie about one man raping someone but three is hard to do because all it takes is one guy to prove he was not near the location she is claiming happened to prove she is lying. She is also saying there were a lot of phone calls and text messenges exchanged that can prove her to be lying.

Unless she is just that dumb to think she has a chance of winning after her lies are much harder to prove than if she was just lying and saying Derrick Rose was the only one involved in raping her.

If it can be proven that Ryan Allen really did call her a month later. My question is why was he calling his best friends side chick if his friend was done with the girl unless he had a guilty conscience about something or was interested in her (which I doubt)?

Why do you doubt he was "interested" in her?

[musiqsoulchild]

The discussion about consent and sex, while definitely an interesting topic, is simply not relevant to this case.

This lady is alleging that rose and his friends drugged her, drove thirty minutes to her home, intruded into her apartment, and then viciously gang raped her and ran away.

There's no question about consent or anything like that. They either did this to her or not.

A discussion about intoxication and consent would be more relevant to, say, the Patrick Kane situation.

She could have called them to her apartment with intent to have a sexual liason. And then she could have backed out of it. But they decided to force it anyway.

Thats rape too.

For me as a Bulls fan, I DONT WANT to get to that point of the investigation. I want the case to be dismissed on character issues or logistical impossibilities or corroboration of facts that are shown to be directly in contradiction to what the plaintiff claims.

[DuckIII]

If it can be proven that Ryan Allen really did call her a month later. My question is why was he calling his best friends side chick if his friend was done with the girl unless he had a guilty conscience about something or was interested in her (which I doubt)?

Presumably that would be the reason.

[DuckIII]

I want the case to be dismissed on character issues or logistical impossibilities or corroboration of facts that are shown to be directly in contradiction to what the plaintiff claims.

That isn't a basis on which to dismiss a claim. Character goes to weight of evidence only, not fundamental viability of a claim.

[chifan1798]

It's probably because they're blackmailing those guys before anything comes out, and they sign some confidentiality agreements where they can't say anything about the incident.

I have no idea what this is based on.

It was in response to the part of your post that I bolded in my reply. You say it's rare, but I think it's very underreported, and women may be keeping quiet due to threatening to go public, and then getting paid off before it even reaches the media.

[musiqsoulchild]

I want the case to be dismissed on character issues or logistical impossibilities or corroboration of facts that are shown to be directly in contradiction to what the plaintiff claims.

That isn't a basis on which to dismiss a claim. Character goes to weight of evidence only, not fundamental viability of a claim.

You are absolutely right - what I meant to say was (and I shouldnt have skimped on words, because I know how this board is and I need to enunciate every thought otherwise I will get eaten alive)

What I meant to say was that if the judge ascertains that there has been attempts to blackmail in the past ( because if such an attempt had been made prior, there MAYBE some record of it - bank incomes that dont reconcile with paycheck frequency for example) - then I would think the judge will kick this lawsuit to the curb.

I am not a lawyer - Duck, is the above possible?

[DuckIII]

I want the case to be dismissed on character issues or logistical impossibilities or corroboration of facts that are shown to be directly in contradiction to what the plaintiff claims.

That isn't a basis on which to dismiss a claim. Character goes to weight of evidence only, not fundamental viability of a claim.

You are absolutely right - what I meant to say was (and I shouldnt have skimped on words, because I know how this board is and I need to enunciate every thought otherwise I will get eaten alive)

What I meant to say was that if the judge ascertains that there has been attempts to blackmail in the past ( because if such an attempt had been made prior, there MAYBE some record of it - bank incomes that dont reconcile with paycheck frequency for example) - then I would think the judge will kick this lawsuit to the curb.

I am not a lawyer - Duck, is the above possible?

If as part of the payments she signed a release agreement then its possible. But if she was just informally receiving money without any written agreement (or written verification of the existence of an agreement - like in a letter or email, etc.) and then sued them anyway, it wouldn't create a legal defense to the claim. It would just make her look really, really bad.

[Keller61]

I want the case to be dismissed on character issues or logistical impossibilities or corroboration of facts that are shown to be directly in contradiction to what the plaintiff claims.

That isn't a basis on which to dismiss a claim. Character goes to weight of evidence only, not fundamental viability of a claim.

Would Rose's lawyer have said "we have complete confidence that the case will be dismissed" if that were so unlikely to happen? Or maybe she just means that they will win the case.

[drbg43]

Brian Banks (This guy wasn't even rich!)

This former Atlanta Falcons linebacker didn’t have an easy ride to the NFL. In 2002, when Banks was only 17 years old, one of his high school classmates came forward, saying that while they were in school together, Banks dragged her into a stairwell and raped her. Banks served five years in prison and another five on probation before he was able to meet up with the accuser, while he was secretly taped with a microphone – she admitted that she fabricated the rape story, and he got her confession on tape. Only in 2012 was Banks’ conviction overturned.

Before he was accused of rape, Banks had received a scholarship to go to the University of South Carolina for football. He had to miss the opportunity because he was sent to prison, but when he got out, he managed to make it to the NFL. Banks said of his hardships, “I feel like what I’ve been through these past 10 years shows that I have a determination factor of not giving up, of keeping hope in whatever it is that you want to accomplish in life that you can.”

Tucker Carlson

A political commentator who has worked for CNN, Fox News and MSNBC, as well as co-founding The Daily Caller. In the summer of 2001, however, he was worried that his successful career would go down the drain when a woman accused him of raping her. The woman, who has not been publicly named, filed criminal sex charges against Carlson for allegedly raping her in Kentucky. Carlson hadn’t even been to Kentucky much less ever met the woman.

Carlson passed a lie detector test to prove his innocence. It also turned out that the woman who was accusing him was mentally unstable and had been stalking him for a while, sending him tokens in the mail, like cards and key chains and signing them from “your biggest fan.”

Keanu Reeves

The Canadian actor who is best known for playing Neo in The Matrix series, was falsely accused of raping and impregnating one of his fans. The woman came forward to sue Reeves for child support. She said that in 2009, he dressed as her ex-husband and hypnotized her to get her in bed and impregnate her.

Reeves maintains that he never met the woman before in his life and told US Magazine, “I had to go to court. It was horrible. I didn’t do it. I’m not the dad.” Reeves also had to take a DNA test, which ultimately proved he did not father her child.

Man, I heard about Brian Banks, that was awful. Served 5 **** years of jail time before getting exonerated.

Clearly this happens much more often to athletes and celebrities. I'm willing to say that at least 50% of the accusations are fabricated. Women are crazy.

[GetBuLLish]

She could have called them to her apartment with intent to have a sexual liason. And then she could have backed out of it. But they decided to force it anyway.

If it comes out that she texted or called them, then her claim is screwed. Her story is that she escaped Rose's house and that they all of a sudden showed up at her home, intruded it, and then raped her.

If it comes out that she was texting or calling these guys after her "escape" and this was easily proveable, then the plaintiff would have confronted this in the complaint. Otherwise, this would sink her story.

Ultimately, what I'm saying is this: If Rose's defense is going to be, "She called us over and said she wanted an orgy," the plaintiff's counter will be that this conversation didn't happen, not that she was too intoxicated to consent.

[GetBuLLish]

Clearly this happens much more often to athletes and celebrities. I'm willing to say that at least 50% of the accusations are fabricated. Women are crazy.

I won't say I agree with the 50% number or anywhere close to that, but I will say this: if you've ever been around a famous or popular athlete, you'll know that many girls can have a tendency to behave in a way that's completely different than the way they usually act.

I went to University of Wisconsin, and my goodness, the way girls would act when a star basketball player or football player would walk into a bar or party, all bets were off. It was the main reason why my friends and I avoided the athlete spots.

[TimRobbins]

Tim Robbins- You are throwing these random numbers out , like 1 out of 1000 or other percents, just like you did in the standing and playoffs thread a while back..

But just off the top of my head, we have Derrick, Kobe, Deshawn Stevenson, Michael Beasley... throw Marv Albert in there as a celebrity involved with the NBA.. That is four players and an announcer, just thinking about it for a minute..... The NBA has less than 500 players... so 4 alone would put the number closer to 1 out of every 125 NBA players are accused of rape... I know there are others.. now that doesn't include all the false accusations and even real ones settled out of court privately that we never hear about. So your number is at the very very minimum 8x too high.

And I guarantee the number for celebs and wealthy athletes is not only larger than it is for normal people but ASTRONOMICALLY larger. Just for NBA players it is probably at least 100x more common to be accused of rape.

I'm going by the numbers people provide here (and the numbers I did in the Kings playoff race were very accurate).

So here it is: We have around 450 players to play on the league every year. You're giving me 4 names of players who were accused of rape over the past decade. That's 0.4 cases per year out of 450 or slightly less than 1/1000 per year. Over the entire country, there are around 300K sexual assaults per year. Assuming there are around 75M men in the country between the ages 18-60, that's 1/250. So, according to this back-handed math, sexual assault charges are more likely to happen in the general population than with NBA players.

I can't see how your claim of rape charges being ASTRONOMICALLY larger within the NBA player population holds any water. If your number of X100 would have been true, it would imply that 1/2.5 NBA players would be accused of rape every year. Do that make sense?

[TimRobbins]

I'd need to double check, but I don't think it even goes that far. I think he says that he finally came to learn that she didn't believe she'd consented. Not that he believed she didn't consent. Translation: I realize she thinks she didn't consent. But she did.

Not sure what kind of logic you're using here. If the girl believes she didn't consent then she didn't consent. Kobe said that at the time he thought she did consent. Just a game of words. Any reasonable person can understand there was no consent.

[TimRobbins]

You think wrong.

Really? Wow! Did you read the account of what happened there?

Someone mentioned Michael Irvin and Erik Williams already, and I mentioned the Duke Lacrosse team. And not that I want to get into a discussion with you about it, and frankly won't, but I put Kobe Bryant on that list as well. I did a quick google search and also came up with the following wealthy and famous people: Brian Banks (NFL), David Copperfield, Keanu Reeves and Tucker Carlson. Mark Chmura was found not guilty, who I already mentioned.

Look, this is based on 90 seconds of internet research. I'm not particularly interested in spending a lot of time on this.

So you have 8 cases in history of false accusations. Doesn't seem like a common occurrence to me. Just about every single study has shown that false rape accusations are extremely rare. Around 1%.

[Tetlak]

You think wrong.

Really? Wow! Did you read the account of what happened there?

Someone mentioned Michael Irvin and Erik Williams already, and I mentioned the Duke Lacrosse team. And not that I want to get into a discussion with you about it, and frankly won't, but I put Kobe Bryant on that list as well. I did a quick google search and also came up with the following wealthy and famous people: Brian Banks (NFL), David Copperfield, Keanu Reeves and Tucker Carlson. Mark Chmura was found not guilty, who I already mentioned.

Look, this is based on 90 seconds of internet research. I'm not particularly interested in spending a lot of time on this.

So you have 8 cases in history of false accusations. Doesn't seem like a common occurrence to me. Just about every single study has shown that false rape accusations are extremely rare. Around 1%.

I doubt those studies focus on famous, multimillionaire men.

[veji1]

Well that's ridiculous then. That means you just can't have sex if you are drunk, which is dumb.

And this is one of the key issues with rape/alcohol/sex in our judicial system. Take the analogy with driving : being drunk is not an excuse for having an accident because driving drunk is illegal. As simple as that : you drink more than a glass of wine, you don't drive PUNKT. This and the ability to check for an exact amount of alcohol in blood simplifies a lot the relationship between alcohol / driving / accident.

in the case of Alcohol / sex / rape, such simple threshold doesn't exist, and if it did it would basically mean going back to prohibition era type of chaos with bootleggers and such.

The issue of consent and alcohol is a major major issue because it is so far use asymetrically as in alcohol would be grounds for impaired consent for a woman, but not (or massively less so) for a man. Basically in case of blacked out drunken sex, it would be akin to an accident in which the man is a drunk driver and the woman a drunk pedestrian : sure the woman being a drunk pedestrian wandering on the road is dangerous, but as the man should not have been driving drunk anyway, he gets the full blame for the accident. In a car accident situation it makes sense. But is that sex ?

Again I don't want to trivialise rape in anyway, but to think that in many many uni dorms in the world when at 10am on the following day a guy and a girl wake up side by side, surprised and hangover, the guy could very well end up in jail seems crazy to me, and scary.

[TimRobbins]

I doubt those studies focus on famous, multimillionaire men.

No, they don't. Do you have evidence of famous, multimillionaires being falsely accused more than the general population? When asked, the most people could come up with is 8 names. That hardly seems like an epidemic.

[GetBuLLish]

You think wrong.

Really? Wow! Did you read the account of what happened there?

Kobe's accuser showed up to the medical exam with another dude's semen in her panties. She also admitted to falsifying part of her initial story to police. She also was witnessed to have been bragging to friends about having sex with Kobe days after the incident. She also was admitted to a psychiatric ward a few months before the incident because she was considered to be a danger to herself.

If you can't come to the right conclusion after all that, then something's wrong.

Doesn't seem like a common occurrence to me. Just about every single study has shown that false rape accusations are extremely rare. Around 1%.

You can have your own incorrect opinions, but you can't have your own incorrect facts. Most recent studies have found that false rape accusations occur 2-8% of the time, not 1%.

Also, that is only counting falsifiable rapes. That does not mean that 90% of rape accusations are real. In fact, almost half of rape accusations don't even make it to court (due to insufficient evidence, accuser refusing to testify, etc.). So don't make it seem like a rape accusation automatically means a rape occurred.