Bulls 2016 season Team Leadership role thread

[MalagaBulls]

I hope this thread does not get into a back and forth heated discussion like the DRose payday thread. I was wondering about the team leadership role and had not seen this really addressed yet. See below:

1. DRose: He has stated that he is "back" (To his college coach) but in what way? He may be between 50-80% of his old self (Who really knows and can put a perfect % on this anyway) and is ready to again help the team. But is he really ready to carry the team as a leader? I don't think this role particularly suits him well. It is a long time from 08 when he was drafted and assumed the role of Alpha Dog.
2. Jimmy Buckets: He is coming off a fantastic season where he bet on himself and proved it with flying colors. He has now publicly stated he is ready to assume the team leadership and be the Alpha Dog.
3. Jono: Was the unquestionable team leader in his DPOY year but fell off the table last year with injuries. He has also said he wants to come back strong and is normally a strong influence for the youngers players and team in general.

So how do you think the teams will develop the leadership role(s) with all 3 ready to assume or having been Alpha Dogs both in the locker room and on the court?
I guess the more important question is will there be a transition from DRose to Jimmy and how will this work without affecting team chemistry? Can it work with DRose accepting a smaller role as a leader but still being 100% committed to contributing to the team in other more valueable ways, especially production on the court?

[WIN]

Jimmy is the #1 player on this team. He talks the talk and walks the walks, wants to lead and just signed a hefty and lengthy contract. He is unquestionably the lead dog on this team.

[Hangtime84]

Jimmy is the #1 player on this team. He talks the talk and walks the walks, wants to lead and just signed a hefty and lengthy contract. He is unquestionably the lead dog on this team.

Yep Jimmy is the number one guy. Derrick hasn't been playing with the team much in the past 3 years.

Derrick still a beast tho.

[GimmeDat]

I think it should be just that - 'team' leadership.

There's too much emphasis on 'who is going to be the leader' or 'whose team it is'. When ego's and roles become entangled, that's when no ones really a leader. We're used to the Kobe/MJ alpha archetype, but so many championship teams have very different makeups in that regard... look at the Spurs, look at the Warriors... everyone's a leader and everyone can step up on a given night. When it comes to the Jimmy/Rose combination, look no further than the Big 3 era Heat... the first year had some growing pains, but 2nd year they were both 'alphas', and worked that dynamic successfully.

Rose, Butler, Jo and Taj are the main guys on the roster, and I think they all lead in different ways, and we have vets like Kirk and Dunleavy as well. At the end of the day, it just comes down to everyone sacrificing their bit to make sure the team succeeds as a whole. Everyone shouldn't be afraid to say their piece, and everyone should hold everyone else accountable. That's how a good team works.

[Ice Man]

I think it should be just that - 'team' leadership.

There's too much emphasis on 'who is going to be the leader' or 'whose team it is'. When ego's and roles become entangled, that's when no ones really a leader. We're used to the Kobe/MJ alpha archetype, but so many championship teams have very different makeups in that regard

I commented late last year that this team had become Jimmy's team, and got the expected insults from people who told me that I was stupid, the word "team" means team and it's everybody's team. But I don't think that is a realistic view of how many squads operate. As you write, some teams really do seem to be ensembles of personalities. But others are not. Some have alpha structures, as the Bulls did in 2014 when Jo carried the squad with his game and mindset after the Lu trade. The key, of course, is not what I think ... it's what the players think. And Jimmy does seem to think that this is his team. He is MJ/Kobe. The betas can stand in line.

[GimmeDat]

I think it should be just that - 'team' leadership.

There's too much emphasis on 'who is going to be the leader' or 'whose team it is'. When ego's and roles become entangled, that's when no ones really a leader. We're used to the Kobe/MJ alpha archetype, but so many championship teams have very different makeups in that regard

I commented late last year that this team had become Jimmy's team, and got the expected insults from people who told me that I was stupid, the word "team" means team and it's everybody's team. But I don't think that is a realistic view of how many squads operate. As you write, some teams really do seem to be ensembles of personalities. But others are not. Some have alpha structures, as the Bulls did in 2014 when Jo carried the squad with his game and mindset after the Lu trade. The key, of course, is not what I think ... it's what the players think. And Jimmy does seem to think that this is his team. He is MJ/Kobe. The betas can stand in line.

Whether Jimmy is right or wrong to have that opinion, I don't know if it's the most successful way to go about it. I love Jimmy's leadership, he's not afraid to speak up and he always backs it up. However, considering the other guys on the team, I question whether Jimmy going all alpha in that regard is the most conducive thing he can do as a leader. In particular the situation with Rose... I don't think he'll readily accept being the 2nd fiddle - carrying the team for a couple of years, getting injured for a couple, and coming back only to relinquish top dog role is a tough pill to swallow, especially for a guy who quietly thinks he can come back to MVP form.

I think the best outcome is for them to become a 1a/1b. It's the only way I see the backcourt, and the team, working. Rose doesn't have to be the verbal leader, he'll go out and do what he does, Jimmy and Jo take the reigns as leaders in that sense.

I don't say this because I think Rose is too stubborn to make the required sacrifices, I just think it's best in terms of usage to get the most out of our playing group.

[Ice Man]

I think the best outcome is for them to become a 1a/1b. It's the only way I see the backcourt, and the team, working.

One thing is for sure, Jimmy can't become completely MJ/Kobe in his mindset. Those guys kicked around their #2s when they felt like it. I don't see how (or why) Derrick would stand for that.

[ATRAIN53]

Rose has never really said he wanted to be the leader of this team, IIRC?
He has implied that he wants to lead the team by example, but I don't recall him saying this with any type of authority "I want to lead this team"

He's more of a silent leader by example in my book, which has been tough since he's been injured so much. Team respects him a a leader but Noah is still the leader IMO.

Noah is the guy that gathers the team together in huddles and takes a vocal role in those meetings and urges his guys on. Jimmy is too winded, he uses the time outs to catch his breath and plot his next move.

leaders make other players better. Jimmy is still on more of the MJ type ascent to superstardom and leading by example like Rose. It's nice to hear him say he wants to lead - but not now Jimmy. Keep getting to the FT stripe and play tenacious defense, let Noah rally the troops. Your time is coming, but we need you to be more James Harden-ish and keep scoring, scoring and scoring.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

It's Jimmy's team imo.

Not just because he says so and can "walk the walk", but because there's been a vacuum of leadership among the players for some time.

Game 6 versus the Cavs was a good example. When they were getting blown out on their home floor and looking pathetic doing it, that team needed someone to say "this is not OK." Derrick didn't do it, Noah couldn't do it (because he sucked), and at the time Jimmy didn't feel empowered to do it. It wouldn't surprise me if that game stuck with him and became the genesis of his leadership talk. He tried on the hat by inviting Dougie to San Diego this summer, and the hat fit fine. Now he's ready to carry the role into the season.

Now, are we going to be functional under his leadership? Not sure. It's a tricky dynamic. Derrick might not defer. Noah might not be ready to hear some hard truths about his play. What's Pau's relationship with Jimmy like? I couldn't tell you. Ultimately, winning cures all ills, as the cliche goes, but I doubt this is a team that bursts out of the gates with an 18-2 record. There could be some interesting times ahead.

[bentheredengthat]

This may be OT to the purpose of this thread, but after last night's preseason Bucks game, I'm salivating at having 2 scorers like Rose & Butler being the leaders of this offense.

So on the offensive side of the ball I look forward to seeing both of them lead.

I'd love to see D Rose become a leader along with Jimmy on the other side of the ball as well.

[ATRAIN53]

Game 6 versus the Cavs was a good example. When they were getting blown out on their home floor and looking pathetic doing it, that team needed someone to say "this is not OK." Derrick didn't do it

dude you so nailed it big time right there.

That moment is probably at the root of my disapointment in Rose. You just never see him rally the troops together or say F the troops I'm taking this over.

I expect to see that from Jimmy this season - A LOT.

He bided his time and now the momment is here.

He seems to know too......

[BullsGate]

This is d.rose team until bulls trade him or when rose leaves.

All of sudden... This board is on jimmy jockstrap. I remember when posters laugh at me when I boldly said "jimmy going to be star"

[Unbeata-BULL7]

This is Jimmy's team until Rose steps back on the court. At which point, they need to figure out how to share the mantle of top dog. Jimmy has come on really strong with all of his quotes about being the man on and off the court, and he needs to be careful not to alienate Derrick as we're not going anywhere without him. At the same time, Rose needs to realize that he's not the king of the hill anymore, and embrace Jimmy to become a powerful 1A and 1B.

If egos take over, and they try to start outdueling each other, we could have a problem. Then again, I remember this duo Shaq and Kobe that seemed to have a similar dynamic...

[tedwilliams1999]

During the post-game interview last night, a reporter asked Jimmy if it there was room for more than one vocal leader on the team. Jimmy's response, "Damned straight there is! I think we gotta have a locker room full of leaders".

It sounds like he wants to be the type of leader who the team can look to when things aren't going well, like in Game 6 against the Cavs last year. The kind of guy who can turn the game around with both his leadership and his play on the court. Derrick's track record of being that guy isn't great thus far. In the past he has led the team by his play on the court, via explosive dunks and highlite reel plays. His ability to do that has obviously diminished, and so I'm glad Jimmy is taking it upon himself to be that guy. Hopefully they can push each other to make each other better and better.

[Keller61]

I don't know if people have seen the full video of Jimmy talking about leadership:

http://www.csnchicago.com/video_content_type/butler-im-happy-outcome

He talks about Derrick and Pau being quiet guys who lead with their play, Jo as an emotional leader, and himself as a vocal leader who gets everyone doing what they're supposed to be doing. That's the role that I believe Deng used to have. It could be that last year's team missed Luol's presence more that we thought.

[League Circles]

I hope this thread does not get into a back and forth heated discussion like the DRose payday thread. I was wondering about the team leadership role and had not seen this really addressed yet. See below:

1. DRose: He has stated that he is "back" (To his college coach) but in what way? He may be between 50-80% of his old self (Who really knows and can put a perfect % on this anyway) and is ready to again help the team. But is he really ready to carry the team as a leader? I don't think this role particularly suits him well. It is a long time from 08 when he was drafted and assumed the role of Alpha Dog.
2. Jimmy Buckets: He is coming off a fantastic season where he bet on himself and proved it with flying colors. He has now publicly stated he is ready to assume the team leadership and be the Alpha Dog.
3. Jono: Was the unquestionable team leader in his DPOY year but fell off the table last year with injuries. He has also said he wants to come back strong and is normally a strong influence for the youngers players and team in general.

So how do you think the teams will develop the leadership role(s) with all 3 ready to assume or having been Alpha Dogs both in the locker room and on the court?
I guess the more important question is will there be a transition from DRose to Jimmy and how will this work without affecting team chemistry? Can it work with DRose accepting a smaller role as a leader but still being 100% committed to contributing to the team in other more valueable ways, especially production on the court?

This is false. Jimmy never said anything about being "the" team leader, nor about being "the alpha dog", unless I'm mistaken. When asked, he specifically said it's nobodies team and that everyone has to step up. Though he did say he wants to take on more of a leadership role this year. But that's not the same as what you wrote.

I don't think we'll have a clear cut leader, which is fine because I don't think we have a group of players that need to be led.

I'm confused as to what people think they saw with Jimmy last year or Noah in the past though. Jimmy was a #3 option last year in terms of shot rate, usage, and scoring rate, and Noah has been head cheerleader for a long time but I wouldn't have ever thought of him as an "alpha dog".

[Fast Dont Fib]

If Rose wants this to be his team again he's more than welcome to start playing like someone who's a leader. The only reason this is in question is because Rose lack of leadership. Don't use the regular season as a personal 3 point shot warmup. Don't wait until the playoffs to decide to finally fight through a pick. Derrick could have this team so easy again, and he doesn't need to score 20+ ppg to do it. Just stop playing like a fool 3 out of every 4 games. If you don't have it that night, stop forcing it. Give some effort on defense and stop getting snagged on every pick. As much as this city has turned on him, i guarantee it, and his entire team would be right back in his lap if he showed any resemblance of his past mindset.

[2Chainz]

I hope this thread does not get into a back and forth heated discussion like the DRose payday thread. I was wondering about the team leadership role and had not seen this really addressed yet. See below:

1. DRose: He has stated that he is "back" (To his college coach) but in what way? He may be between 50-80% of his old self (Who really knows and can put a perfect % on this anyway) and is ready to again help the team. But is he really ready to carry the team as a leader? I don't think this role particularly suits him well. It is a long time from 08 when he was drafted and assumed the role of Alpha Dog.
2. Jimmy Buckets: He is coming off a fantastic season where he bet on himself and proved it with flying colors. He has now publicly stated he is ready to assume the team leadership and be the Alpha Dog.
3. Jono: Was the unquestionable team leader in his DPOY year but fell off the table last year with injuries. He has also said he wants to come back strong and is normally a strong influence for the youngers players and team in general.

So how do you think the teams will develop the leadership role(s) with all 3 ready to assume or having been Alpha Dogs both in the locker room and on the court?
I guess the more important question is will there be a transition from DRose to Jimmy and how will this work without affecting team chemistry? Can it work with DRose accepting a smaller role as a leader but still being 100% committed to contributing to the team in other more valueable ways, especially production on the court?

This is false. Jimmy never said anything about being "the" team leader, nor about being "the alpha dog", unless I'm mistaken. When asked, he specifically said it's nobodies team and that everyone has to step up. Though he did say he wants to take on more of a leadership role this year. But that's not the same as what you wrote.

I don't think we'll have a clear cut leader, which is fine because I don't think we have a group of players that need to be led.

I'm confused as to what people think they saw with Jimmy last year or Noah in the past though. Jimmy was a #3 option last year in terms of shot rate, usage, and scoring rate, and Noah has been head cheerleader for a long time but I wouldn't have ever thought of him as an "alpha dog".

Butler’s putting it out there that the Bulls are his team, even offering to Aldridge that new assistant coach Jim Boylen told Butler to prepare to be the focus of opposing defenses. Butler’s also clearly celebrating the regime change, calling Hoiberg “a bigger person” than Thibodeau. This is a player speaking in no uncertain terms about how he perceives his place in any locker-room hierarchy.

“Even when you’re not on the court, there’s things you have to do to bring your team closer, to show your team — this is what we have to do to win — not only win, but win that championship,” Butler said. “If you look at the numbers, if you look at former championship teams, each and every one of them had a leader on that team — a leader that was going to work, was being very vocal. But at the same time, he was doing what he had to to help his team win. And that’s who I have to be this year.”

Butler says all of this knowing Rose is still on his team, as are the emotive Joakim Noah and the quietly influential Gasol. Such a proclamation is no small thing, particularly the way in which he did it — he didn’t merely say he wants to become a leader or is willing to be, but that he HAS to. He’s not just appointing himself but calling everybody else out for previous failures to fill that role. It’s heady stuff.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/10/06/bernstein-jimmy-butler-making-it-clear-these-are-his-bulls/

[League Circles]

Butler’s putting it out there that the Bulls are his team, even offering to Aldridge that new assistant coach Jim Boylen told Butler to prepare to be the focus of opposing defenses. Butler’s also clearly celebrating the regime change, calling Hoiberg “a bigger person” than Thibodeau. This is a player speaking in no uncertain terms about how he perceives his place in any locker-room hierarchy.

“Even when you’re not on the court, there’s things you have to do to bring your team closer, to show your team — this is what we have to do to win — not only win, but win that championship,” Butler said. “If you look at the numbers, if you look at former championship teams, each and every one of them had a leader on that team — a leader that was going to work, was being very vocal. But at the same time, he was doing what he had to to help his team win. And that’s who I have to be this year.”

Butler says all of this knowing Rose is still on his team, as are the emotive Joakim Noah and the quietly influential Gasol. Such a proclamation is no small thing, particularly the way in which he did it — he didn’t merely say he wants to become a leader or is willing to be, but that he HAS to. He’s not just appointing himself but calling everybody else out for previous failures to fill that role. It’s heady stuff.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/10/06/bernstein-jimmy-butler-making-it-clear-these-are-his-bulls/

Thanks, I stand somewhat corrected. The Bernstein article you linked to is a poor paraphrasing of what Jimmy actually said to Aldridge (expected, because Bernstein is just terrible). However, while he didn't say a number of the things Bernstein implies he did, he did say this which IMO is pretty bad:

"Leadership is one of the only things that this team has really been lacking. We've had a little here and there."

That doesn't sit too well with me. Jimmy has had his chance to lead the last two seasons, leading the team in mpg in each. And the results just haven't been that great. I'm not blaming him because he played great last year, but the simple fact of the matter is that Rose has led this team much further than Jimmy has. Derrick led us to two MVP caliber, league overall #1 seed seasons and our only ECF berth in the last 16 seasons. Jimmy led us to a couple of pretty good seasons and 2nd round exits. He should frankly shut his mouth. I don't really like how he threw Thibbs under the bus either, which McD did also.

[Ice Man]

"Leadership is one of the only things that this team has really been lacking. We've had a little here and there."

That doesn't sit too well with me.

My read is that Jimmy in a sense is calling himself out too. He played into this by assuming the role of the junior guy, following in the lead of the more seasoned veterans. In his view, that did not work. So now he's taking matters into his own hands.

Of course, I could be wrong, but that seems to be what he is saying. He is not going to wait around for somebody else to take charge. He feels ready and he's going to do it.

I don't quite understand why he said that publicly -- that seems unnecessary -- but that we have an All Star in his prime who by all accounts is an extremely hard worker, and who wants to take on more responsibility, that surely seems to be a good thing.