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Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic

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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#141 » by 2Chainz » Thu Oct 8, 2015 4:58 pm

So now Derrick never improved. Revisionist history is awesome. Prior to the injuries and rehabs Derrick added to his game every year. I just guess derricks natural progression in his career was to be an MVP level caliber player and it didn't take any work for him to get there.

I guess people here probably never played sports or had injuries when you miss significant time no matter how much you practice you cannot simulate game speed action and it will be some adjustment. Derrick missed two whole years of NBA games and usually after knee injuries it takes a year to get reacclimated. He's had 3.

The amount of criticism Derrick takes on here is just unjust but it's always been that way even when he was an MVP level player it's just louder now since he's been down.
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#142 » by League Circles » Thu Oct 8, 2015 5:01 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the claim from Cowley is that Jimmy wasn't happy with how hard Rose plays in practice, not how much he works on his game outside of practice.
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#143 » by Pnjguy » Thu Oct 8, 2015 5:02 pm

I
PMONSTER wrote:Jalen Rose just talked about how Derrick Rose has dealt with numerous injuries and he probably can't work as hard as Jimmy can everyday. He also talked about how there are numerous players need the rest in practice but come game time, they are ready to go.

Valid points?


Yes.

Let's see how "hard" Jimmy works in practice when he starts getting injuries. That's assuming this source is even correct, sounds like the source is speculating at best.

Also, it's really tough, damn near impossible to improve your game when you're rehabbing. Again, i know it's tough for people to understand, but it's not Derrick Rose's fault he got injured.

Instead of enjoying the fact that we have 2 really good players, we have to bury one of them. Makes no senses whatsover.
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Re: RE: Re: Per Cowley 

Post#144 » by veji1 » Thu Oct 8, 2015 5:31 pm

coldfish wrote:
First off, Rose finished every year other than the ACL tear one healthy. He just wasn't comfortable playing but he sure was good with practice as he was going on with that even before the end of the season, sometimes for months. I think between when he started practicing in 2013 to the start of that season, he had 9 full months to work on shooting, post game, etc. That's a ton of time. Let's not act like Rose just got off his crutches and started playing the next season.

Secondly, has it ever crossed anyone's mind that Derrick Rose today is not the same person he was when he first came to the Bulls? That the injuries, the fame, the money, the MVP award, etc. changed him a little? His focus, his priorities? I think it pretty clearly has, as it would anyone in that position.


I think so too, and it is human as well. I'll go to the Carmelo example there : To some extent we sport fans, while being maybe quite laid back in our dailylives, not willing to do all sacrifices and efforts need to better our carrier, quite content with what we have, well we think all athlete should be thes uber ambitious ruthless hard workers who would kill their mother to win. Particularly in Chicago with MJ's heritage.

Yet Melo chose to stay in NY, get his money, play the game he loves the way he loves it in the place he calls home, even if it means not winning it all. Isn't that human after all ? Why would that be unacceptable ?

Rose was that 22 years old machine of a player. now he is 4/5 years older, has been tested by injuries, has also had plenty of time on his hands to enjoy the life of a rich man... And well maybe his priorities have changed. Maybe what he said about his son's graduation wasn't just a pr mistake but also deep down what he thinks : He is rich enough, he wants to play the game because he loves it, but he is not willing to bust his knee going that extra mile, and he may want to play the way he loves it, the way he enjoys it rather than try to be a different player.

If that's the case from his point of view it is understandable.

It does have consequences for the organisation though....
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#145 » by push » Thu Oct 8, 2015 5:35 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/652175309249208320[/tweet]
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#146 » by stillalive » Thu Oct 8, 2015 5:50 pm

push wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/652175309249208320[/tweet]


SHUT THIS THREAD DOWN!
"I take it very seriously, knowing my opponent really wants to come at me. It's not just God's gifts. You have to work at this game. If not, you're just going to be average. You have to want it and do whatever you have to do to get it."-D.Rose
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#147 » by FriedRise » Thu Oct 8, 2015 5:53 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/652179509207277569[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/652179937693159425[/tweet]
/thread
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#148 » by stillalive » Thu Oct 8, 2015 5:53 pm

stillalive wrote:
push wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/652175309249208320[/tweet]


SHUT THIS THREAD DOWN!


[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/652179509207277569[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/652179937693159425[/tweet]
"I take it very seriously, knowing my opponent really wants to come at me. It's not just God's gifts. You have to work at this game. If not, you're just going to be average. You have to want it and do whatever you have to do to get it."-D.Rose
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#149 » by Payt10 » Thu Oct 8, 2015 6:01 pm

“Personally, the two are great. Professionally is where they have a difference of opinion.’’


I feel like this needs to be pinned somewhere to remind people of what's actually being said.

This is perhaps the most common problem teams have with two alpha dogs on a team. It's up to Hoiberg to figure it out.
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#150 » by bulliedog8 » Thu Oct 8, 2015 6:03 pm

coldfish wrote:For whatever reason, Rose has not been able to add significant facets to his game. His outside shooting really isn't much better and he wasn't able to add some type of Andre Miller like post game. He wasn't injured for years either. He was able to move around and practice before the end of the season in both years he missed. He had tremendous off court time available to him.

On the other hand, Butler has been able to add to his game. He had an entire arsenal of moves available to him last year that he simply didn't have early in his career.

We really don't know why Rose hasn't been able to add that stuff. This report by Cowley might be true because it fits what we know. Ever since Tyrus Thomas I have taken fluff reports as a joke. Tyrus would say he was in the lab working on his game all summer and then come back with no larger skill set. Later on as Tyrus was about to leave, reports started coming out questioning his work ethic.

Regardless, in order for Rose to be a high level player again, he is going to have to add things to his game. A 27 year old with multiple knee surgeries simply isn't going to be as athletic as a healthy 22 year old. If Rose's game continues to be mostly based on his athleticism, then he isn't going to ever get back to where he was as far as impact.

Let's hope that this is all wrong and that Rose busted his ass all summer like Jimmy did last year and he comes in with a more consistent shot, a mini post game, etc. etc.


Rose does have a post game. But for some reason, he never uses it, or coaches dont call for him to use it. Against crappy azz delladova last year at the beginning, he would post him up and couldnt be stopped. Posted in random games every once in a while and was legit. If he posts up, not many would be able to stop him. Same with Butler, dont know why he doesnt post up more. Both are big for their positions and can easily dominate the opponent.

They will definitely be the best backcourt this year. Health aside
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#151 » by Red Larrivee » Thu Oct 8, 2015 6:15 pm

I wish one of the players would call out Cowley directly.
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#152 » by Land Rover » Thu Oct 8, 2015 6:25 pm

I'm not a fan of Cowley's work ethic, making up news is just sloppy and really pathetic IMO
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#153 » by PMONSTER » Thu Oct 8, 2015 6:35 pm

FriedRise wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/652179509207277569[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/652179937693159425[/tweet]
/thread


Funny thing is that Jimmy Butler called Derrick Rose a fierce competitor.....

That tells me something
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#154 » by Rerisen » Thu Oct 8, 2015 6:35 pm

I don't think Rose has had a chance to seriously work on his game since 2012, when he was progressing. While yes, he's had significant practice time on the court, this has all been 'below 100%' time when he is just trying to get his game back even close to where it was, which he still has not succeeded in doing.

Look at Rose all of last year even in the game's he played, did that look like a player confident with his game to the point where he could add even newer facets? No, the three point chucking was just a defense mechanism to try to get to the playoffs healthy, and/or lingering fear of getting hurt again if he played the same aggressive attacking the rim style that he used to.

Until Rose is comfortable and accepting of the new player he is, and what he can and can't do vs what he used to, I doubt he can even begin to think about legitimately adding new and improved skills that he didn't have to begin with. Sure he has spouted a lot of stuff while on the sidelines about learning the game better by watching, or busting out all these new elements, but this is just so much kool-aid talk that is essentially positive outlook throwaway stuff.

I don't think Rose is yet mentally over the injury cycle that he's been through the last 4 years, and until he can truly let that old Derrick Rose go, that default assumption that he is still the same megastar deserving of 19 shots a game just because, then I don't see him being able to move on and grow.

He should really be coming into this season with zero expectations and letting his play level going forward dictate what type of player he should be, or would best help the team. Whether that is a guy that averages 17/7 and takes over playmaking late, a guy who maybe just scores the ball more like a SG now but shares the playmaking a lot more, or a guy, much like he used to be, that can still do it all, score high volume and dominate the offensive playmaking. But that's not how's he's approaching it. He's approaching it via "I know I'm great" as if 4 years of injuries didn't happen and he can just step into that same role he had as MVP. It's not the right approach imo.
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#155 » by fleet » Thu Oct 8, 2015 6:42 pm

2Chainz wrote:So now Derrick never improved. Revisionist history is awesome. Prior to the injuries and rehabs Derrick added to his game every year. I just guess derricks natural progression in his career was to be an MVP level caliber player and it didn't take any work for him to get there.

I guess people here probably never played sports or had injuries when you miss significant time no matter how much you practice you cannot simulate game speed action and it will be some adjustment. Derrick missed two whole years of NBA games and usually after knee injuries it takes a year to get reacclimated. He's had 3.

The amount of criticism Derrick takes on here is just unjust but it's always been that way even when he was an MVP level player it's just louder now since he's been down.



There's a difference between improving (getting better), and adding (diversifying). So somebody is going to have to show me a new skill Rose has worked hard to add to his aresenal. If you think about him, he is a poster child for needing to come up with ways of creating new techniques score other than facing up a guy and breaking him down off the dribble. I see him practice these things he already can do pregame, but do I see a bunch of post moves in games? I don't. With his size and strength, that's a no brainer.
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#156 » by Pnjguy » Thu Oct 8, 2015 6:43 pm

Payt10 wrote:
“Personally, the two are great. Professionally is where they have a difference of opinion.’’


I feel like this needs to be pinned somewhere to remind people of what's actually being said.

This is perhaps the most common problem teams have with two alpha dogs on a team. It's up to Hoiberg to figure it out.


The numbers they have when playing together don't support that notion.
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Re: Per Cowley 

Post#157 » by High level » Thu Oct 8, 2015 6:48 pm

meekrab wrote:
ZUDAMAGIC wrote:This team will only win as drose being the alpha again.. Not Jimmy


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

When has an "alpha" PG ever won anything in the NBA? Magic Johnson? :roll:

Curry?
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#158 » by MC3 » Thu Oct 8, 2015 7:01 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/652179509207277569[/tweet]
end this thread
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#159 » by Krazy!!! » Thu Oct 8, 2015 7:04 pm

FriedRise wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/652179509207277569[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/652179937693159425[/tweet]
/thread


Because (unfortunately) when it comes to Rose...anything that involves him becomes one King Kong sized story that the press won't simply let go.
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Re: Per Cowley "Source": Butler not a fan of Rose's work ethic 

Post#160 » by Betta Bulleavit » Thu Oct 8, 2015 7:05 pm

Well when it's all said and done, the Bulls (as a team) aren't going anywhere unless both of these guys are playing at a very high level. We know this much to be true just by looking at the competition that's out there. So as far as I'm concerned, I'm not really all that interested in the Batman and Robin mess that people tend to get caught up in. If Jimmy is the new leader, that's fine. Just do what you need to do. If Derrick is still the top tier player that he feels he is, then do what you do.

It's all a moot point though as I feel like Cowley is full of it and had forced people to not take any of his positions on Rose seriously as he's made his agenda pretty clear. So a piece like this should come as no surprise to anyone.

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