PG: No Chemistry, No fight, No Win

doesntmatterz · Post #421 » by **doesntmatterz** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 5:36 pm

This is disgusting, Rose is not the main problem here, stop latching onto that. The problem is the defensive effort from everyone, the problem is the stagnant offense primarily due to Jimmy holding onto the ball and going for fadaways, the problem is the 2nd unit coming in and cant do anything on the court because they are no disciplined.

THe whole "get Rose out we will be so much better" is so old.

Bomba Navarro · Post #422 » by **Bomba Navarro** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 5:46 pm

doesntmatterz wrote:This is disgusting, Rose is not the main problem here, stop latching onto that. The problem is the defensive effort from everyone, the problem is the stagnant offense primarily due to Jimmy holding onto the ball and going for fadaways, the problem is the 2nd unit coming in and cant do anything on the court because they are no disciplined.

THe whole "get Rose out we will be so much better" is so old.

Who is saying Rose is THE MAIN problem? Christ! Some of you Rose fans are SO sensitive.
I still can't fathom how people can't see everybody is going iso, and that it's mainly Derrick who is doing so, even moreso than Butler. And I'm not even blaming him for it -he's arguably the second/third best isolation player on a team whose offense is mainly predicated on 1x1 and 2x2, and I think he's been told to focus on scoring. But man, you can't take any kind of criticism toward Rose. It's getting really old.

2Chainz · Post #423 » by **2Chainz** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 5:50 pm

WatchYouBleed wrote:
doesntmatterz wrote:This is disgusting, Rose is not the main problem here, stop latching onto that. The problem is the defensive effort from everyone, the problem is the stagnant offense primarily due to Jimmy holding onto the ball and going for fadaways, the problem is the 2nd unit coming in and cant do anything on the court because they are no disciplined.

THe whole "get Rose out we will be so much better" is so old.

Who is saying Rose is THE MAIN problem? Christ! Some of you Rose fans are SO sensitive.
I still can't fathom how people can't see everybody is going iso, and that it's mainly Derrick who is doing so, even moreso than Butler. And I'm not even blaming him for it, I think he's been told to focus on scoring. But man, you can't take any kind of criticism toward Rose. It's getting really old.

Butler goes iso far more than Rose. It's funny you're so critical of Rose but don't see it with Jimmy or look the other way. I guess you can't be critical of Jimmy though. Jimmy gets the ball holds it either to shoot or get the assist. The ball is sticking and he doesn't make decisions quick enough sure assist are nice but it's not a good indicator ball movement. People crap on Iverson he was a 6 apg player does that mean he was facilitating great ball movement or good offense?

johnnyvann840 · Post #424 » by **johnnyvann840** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 5:54 pm

Red8911 wrote:
BeatDaCavs420 wrote:Taj missing that rebound gave me nightmares

Yea but I don't blame him either,someone behind him gobert ? poked the ball a lil bit and messed up taj from getting it.That was just unlucky.

It was actually Favors who gets his hand in and Taj had him blocked out... he just reached through and poked it.

Bomba Navarro · Post #425 » by **Bomba Navarro** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 5:59 pm

2Chainz wrote:Butler goes iso far more than Rose. It's funny you're so critical of Rose but don't see it with Jimmy or look the other way. I guess you can't be critical of Jimmy though

Do you even bother to read what I write? I just said it's not really Rose's fault as much as it's the system's fault.

And no, proportinally Butler does NOT go iso more than Rose. Butler plays A LOT of 2x2 with Pau, and looks for him a lot in the pick and pop. Derrick sees the screen coming and he attacks 95% of the time. Almost all of his points are iso stuff, for God's sake. And I will repeat it -I think he's been told to do that. Problem is:

a) That's not a good way to win games.
b) He's not that efficient at doing it anymore, and it shows. That's what I'm pointing out. No more and no less.

Heck, even if Butler really went iso more than Rose, that'd make sense. He's the most efficient iso player out of the two atm.

Bottom line, the way we're running our offense is terrible, and Hoiberg should be held accountable for it.

2Chainz · Post #426 » by **2Chainz** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 6:01 pm

WatchYouBleed wrote:
2Chainz wrote:Butler goes iso far more than Rose. It's funny you're so critical of Rose but don't see it with Jimmy or look the other way. I guess you can't be critical of Jimmy though

Do you even bother to read what I write? I just said it's not really Rose's fault as much as it's the system's fault.

And no, proportinally Butler does NOT go iso more than Rose. Butler plays A LOT of 2x2 with Pau, and looks for him a lot in the pick and pop. Derrick sees the screen coming and he attacks 95% of the time. Almost all of his points are iso stuff, for God's sake. And I will repeat it -I think he's been told to do that. Problem is:

a) That's not a good way to win games.
b) He's not that efficient at doing it anymore, and it shows.

Heck, even if Butler really went iso more than Rose, that'd make sense. He's the most efficient iso player out of the two.

We watch different games. It's good.

DarthDiggler69 · Post #427 » by **DarthDiggler69** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 6:03 pm

People crying for Thibs need to consider what the Bulls are doing this season they were supposed to do last year: increase pace/space, test different rotations and try to develop the younger players. None of that happened last season so they need to do it this season. Bulls might have been in a better position this season if Thibs went with the plan, though Thibs knew his job was on the line so he focused on winning as many games as he could, which is also good but that put the Bulls in the predicament they are in today. Unless Fred had some magic powers, this season was doomed from the start and many of us knew it already.

Bomba Navarro · Post #428 » by **Bomba Navarro** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 6:06 pm

Per NBA.com, Rose is unassisted on 71.8% of his field goals. His usage is at 26,2%. Butler is unassisted on 51.3% of his field goals with a 24,9% usage.

Okay buddy, I'm the one watching the wrong games.

Euro_Step · Post #429 » by **Euro_Step** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 6:07 pm

WatchYouBleed wrote:
doesntmatterz wrote:This is disgusting, Rose is not the main problem here, stop latching onto that. The problem is the defensive effort from everyone, the problem is the stagnant offense primarily due to Jimmy holding onto the ball and going for fadaways, the problem is the 2nd unit coming in and cant do anything on the court because they are no disciplined.

THe whole "get Rose out we will be so much better" is so old.

Who is saying Rose is THE MAIN problem? Christ! Some of you Rose fans are SO sensitive.
I still can't fathom how people can't see everybody is going iso, and that it's mainly Derrick who is doing so, even moreso than Butler. And I'm not even blaming him for it -he's arguably the second/third best isolation player on a team whose offense is mainly predicated on 1x1 and 2x2, and I think he's been told to focus on scoring. But man, you can't take any kind of criticism toward Rose. It's getting really old.

How about the person above you who just wrote two paragraphs about rose and said the situation makes his blood boil. Not everyone is talking about you. Some people are seem to have an irrational hatred for Derrick Rose. Some people are his fans and see the need to defend him from irrational hate while overlooking problems he still has. Others could care less and just want the bulls to win. I'm admittedly in the second group. The Bull are my favorite team and they would be without Derrick Rose too but I admit it bothers me when people seem to despise his soul the way some people do.

My theory is that they are fans of his like me and just really hurt by the way injuries have hurt him and so lashing out at him is the only thing they know how to do. And also some people are just disturbed.

DarthDiggler69 · Post #430 » by **DarthDiggler69** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 6:10 pm

Problem is roster roster roster. Bulls are trying to play style which doesnt suit the players we have and they didnt even gel with the style they played with last season. I dont think they are worse but Bulls are running in one place while the rest of the East is catching up, look around the league, east is very competitive

Its all management's blame, but I always say this as a transition year because the cap increase changes everything so if anything this is the season to make changes

BeatDaCavs420 · Post #431 » by **BeatDaCavs420** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 6:12 pm

Because other GM's no they ain't going to do much

I just don't believe in Doug or Bobby as much as others do

Bomba Navarro · Post #432 » by **Bomba Navarro** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 6:12 pm

Euro_Step wrote:
WatchYouBleed wrote:
doesntmatterz wrote:This is disgusting, Rose is not the main problem here, stop latching onto that. The problem is the defensive effort from everyone, the problem is the stagnant offense primarily due to Jimmy holding onto the ball and going for fadaways, the problem is the 2nd unit coming in and cant do anything on the court because they are no disciplined.

THe whole "get Rose out we will be so much better" is so old.

Who is saying Rose is THE MAIN problem? Christ! Some of you Rose fans are SO sensitive.
I still can't fathom how people can't see everybody is going iso, and that it's mainly Derrick who is doing so, even moreso than Butler. And I'm not even blaming him for it -he's arguably the second/third best isolation player on a team whose offense is mainly predicated on 1x1 and 2x2, and I think he's been told to focus on scoring. But man, you can't take any kind of criticism toward Rose. It's getting really old.

How about the person above you who just wrote two paragraphs about rose and said the situation makes his blood boil. Not everyone is talking about you. Some people are seem to have an irrational hatred for Derrick Rose. Some people are his fans and see the need to defend him from irrational hate while overlooking problems he still has. Others could care less and just want the bulls to win. I'm admittedly in the second group. The Bull are my favorite team and they would be without Derrick Rose too but I admit it bothers me when people seem to despise his soul the way some people do.

My theory is that they are fans of his like me and just really hurt by the way injuries have hurt him and so lashing out at him is the only thing they know how to do. And also some people are just disturbed.

There's this quoting option this board has always had, you know?

If you write something like that and don't quote anybody, you make it look as if everybody is taking it out on Derrick Rose. And that's not the case.

DarthDiggler69 · Post #433 » by **DarthDiggler69** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 6:16 pm

Some offensive problems:

Rose can't play off the ball. Terrible 3-pt shooter

Butler can play off the ball but chooses to go iso many times. Not a good 3pt shooter

Pau wants to post up everyone and when he does he takes half the shot clock. Needs to stay pick and pop

Post #434 » by **Ice Man** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 6:22 pm

"If you don't expect too much from me you might not be let down." Listen to the Gin Blossoms and find peace. GarPax lied about this team being highly talented and injuries have done their damage too. Do not expecting to win road games. Be happy if it happens but do not be sad if it does not. Life is too short to treat yourself like that.

Euro_Step · Post #435 » by **Euro_Step** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 6:32 pm

WatchYouBleed wrote:
Euro_Step wrote:
WatchYouBleed wrote:Who is saying Rose is THE MAIN problem? Christ! Some of you Rose fans are SO sensitive.
I still can't fathom how people can't see everybody is going iso, and that it's mainly Derrick who is doing so, even moreso than Butler. And I'm not even blaming him for it -he's arguably the second/third best isolation player on a team whose offense is mainly predicated on 1x1 and 2x2, and I think he's been told to focus on scoring. But man, you can't take any kind of criticism toward Rose. It's getting really old.

How about the person above you who just wrote two paragraphs about rose and said the situation makes his blood boil. Not everyone is talking about you. Some people are seem to have an irrational hatred for Derrick Rose. Some people are his fans and see the need to defend him from irrational hate while overlooking problems he still has. Others could care less and just want the bulls to win. I'm admittedly in the second group. The Bull are my favorite team and they would be without Derrick Rose too but I admit it bothers me when people seem to despise his soul the way some people do.

My theory is that they are fans of his like me and just really hurt by the way injuries have hurt him and so lashing out at him is the only thing they know how to do. And also some people are just disturbed.

There's this quoting option this board has always had, you know?

If you write something like that and don't quote anybody, you make it look as if everybody is taking it out on Derrick Rose. And that's not the case.

I thought to post because you asked a question, which I quoted. You said "who is saying Rose is THE MAIN problem?" So I gave you an example. I don't need to call out random posters. However, you asked a question so I gave you an answer with out bringing the posters name directly into it.

ZUDAMAGIC · Post #436 » by **ZUDAMAGIC** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 6:37 pm

Rose getting blamed on the gb and this board is disgusting. Even when he plays well we still get smacked around the problem with this team is everything outside of taj, jimmy, pau , rose.

Mech Engineer · Post #437 » by **Mech Engineer** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 6:39 pm

Ice Man wrote:"If you don't expect too much from me you might not be let down." Listen to the Gin Blossoms and find peace. GarPax lied about this team being highly talented and injuries have done their damage too. Do not expecting to win road games. Be happy if it happens but do not be sad if it does not. Life is too short to treat yourself like that.

The way the Thibs/Gar-Pax fight went...it seems like the Bulls are a typical ego driven organization. Most of these self-destruct after some time. The Bulls because of their unique product will survive but they seem to have a lot of chemistry, power issues. I have watched 25% of the games this year and probably will not watch much. They are just not worth your emotion when they are so arrogant about an inferior product.

The Gasol signing(even if everything appears great on the surface...good production, great person, cerebral player etc..) has somehow messed up the Bulls. And, second is the growing process of Jimmy trying to go up the ladder in the leadership roll. I don't know if it is good or bad but right now it seems like a tough process.

lastmanstanding · Post #438 » by **lastmanstanding** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 7:02 pm

RedBulls83 wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:I know this would never happen, but I wish Thibs would just come back. He wasn't perfect ... but man, he also was much better than this.

Gar tolerated him - with all his imperfections.

But , once the players tuned him out, it didn't matter if it was Thibs or Red Auerbach.

The difference with Fred is that these players are not his core. They were Thibs core. So, Thibs own core players tuned him out.

Fred on the other hand is deciding who is in the circle and who's not.

I think it's starting to look like this team didn't tune out Thibs as much as they are just not good enough as a whole.

Sure Thibs was stubborn, but it seems it was with good reason.

It's okay to admit it now. We were wrong. This isn't a coaching/FO and coaching relationship issue.

Honestly I really appreciate someone admitting that they were wrong about Thibs. It may be a legitimate argument to say Thibs had run his course, I would disagree, but I think its a legitimate argument. The failings had less to do with Thibs acumen as a coach, and more to do with the roster flaws. I don't think Hoiberg has been a particularly good coach, but there are apparent festering flaws in this roster they weren't addressed, because the FO would rather blame the coach.

musiqsoulchild · Post #439 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 7:07 pm

lastmanstanding wrote:
RedBulls83 wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:
Gar tolerated him - with all his imperfections.

But , once the players tuned him out, it didn't matter if it was Thibs or Red Auerbach.

The difference with Fred is that these players are not his core. They were Thibs core. So, Thibs own core players tuned him out.

Fred on the other hand is deciding who is in the circle and who's not.

I think it's starting to look like this team didn't tune out Thibs as much as they are just not good enough as a whole.

Sure Thibs was stubborn, but it seems it was with good reason.

It's okay to admit it now. We were wrong. This isn't a coaching/FO and coaching relationship issue.

Honestly I really appreciate someone admitting that they were wrong about Thibs. It may be a legitimate argument to say Thibs had run his course, I would disagree, but I think its a legitimate argument. The failings had less to do with Thibs acumen as a coach, and more to do with the roster flaws. I don't think Hoiberg has been a particularly good coach, but there are apparent festering flaws in this roster they weren't addressed, because the FO would rather blame the coach.

Thibs was an EXCEPTIONAL regular season coach and a subpar playoff coach.

Unfortunately, the big money in the NBA is made during the playoffs.

R3AL1TY · Post #440 » by **R3AL1TY** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 7:11 pm

The coaching staff can't wait too long where the players will tune them out just like what happened to Thibs. They got to hold them accountable in playing a more team oriented offense. If certain players won't comply, ship them out or don't bring them back.

And if the figure heads of management don't want to make the moves for a better team, get rid of them too.