PG: The roster is good

[Ctownbulls]

I dont get the Fred to Tim Floyd comparisons other than Iowa State, Tim Floyd had ZERO NBA experience coming into the NBA. Hoiberg played in the NBA for 10 years under great coaches Larry Brown and Flip Saunders and was an NBA executive. Hoiberg is one of the most experienced coaches the Bulls hired, Tim Floyd had the least experience. Floyd has more comparisons with Thibs since both never played in the league, but of course Thibs had tons and tons of assistant coaching experience at least.

Hoiberg is one of the most experienced coaches hired in comparison to whom exactly?

Thibs - not even close
VDN - comparable
Skiles - not even close

The Hoiberg hiring was a travesty. Everyone knows it. He has shown nothing that says he will be a good coach even with a roster tailored for his offense. Why the hell would we build a roster tailored for Fred Hoiberg as opposed to finding a coach tailored for the roster. It is a players league.

[DarthDiggler69]

I dont get the Fred to Tim Floyd comparisons other than Iowa State, Tim Floyd had ZERO NBA experience coming into the NBA. Hoiberg played in the NBA for 10 years under great coaches Larry Brown and Flip Saunders and was an NBA executive. Hoiberg is one of the most experienced coaches the Bulls hired, Tim Floyd had the least experience. Floyd has more comparisons with Thibs since both never played in the league, but of course Thibs had tons and tons of assistant coaching experience at least.

Hoiberg is one of the most experienced coaches hired in comparison to whom exactly?

Thibs - not even close
VDN - comparable
Skiles - not even close

The Hoiberg hiring was a travesty. Everyone knows it. He has shown nothing that says he will be a good coach even with a roster tailored for his offense. Why the hell would we build a roster tailored for Fred Hoiberg as opposed to finding a coach tailored for the roster. It is a players league.

Well from many players points of views they value coaches who played in the NBA, so that actually counts from a managing aspect of it.

I also wrote "arguably" one of the most experienced.

I opposed the Hoiberg rumors for years but I agree with the Thibs firing, I have hopes Fred will work out(whoever was hired) so i think its stupid people condemn him now when he is only a small part of the problem. Your going to have to live with it for at least two years.

And as we found out from Thibs also, this roster is flawed, hard to find a coach out there to fix this junk. Got to change FO first because nobody trusts their decisions so they can hire a new coach. But whoever is coachig the team now I always want them to succeed and not constantly dog him

[errisal]

I dont get the Fred to Tim Floyd comparisons other than Iowa State. Tim Floyd had ZERO NBA experience coming into the NBA and his only qualification was he was Krause fishing buddy. Hoiberg played in the NBA for 10 years under great coaches Larry Brown and Flip Saunders and spent time as an NBA executive. Hoiberg arguably is one of the most experienced coaches the Bulls hired, Tim Floyd had the least experience. If you want to spin it Floyd has more comparisons with Thibs since both never played in the league, but of course Thibs had tons and tons of assistant coaching experience at least.

I could understand that some dont like his style, bitter about Thibs or dont think he can coach but comparing to Tim Floyd is real low.

Not as low as the moral on this team or in it's fan base.

[bennjuiced34]

I dont get the Fred to Tim Floyd comparisons other than Iowa State, Tim Floyd had ZERO NBA experience coming into the NBA. Hoiberg played in the NBA for 10 years under great coaches Larry Brown and Flip Saunders and was an NBA executive. Hoiberg is one of the most experienced coaches the Bulls hired, Tim Floyd had the least experience. Floyd has more comparisons with Thibs since both never played in the league, but of course Thibs had tons and tons of assistant coaching experience at least.

Hoiberg is one of the most experienced coaches hired in comparison to whom exactly?

Thibs - not even close
VDN - comparable
Skiles - not even close

The Hoiberg hiring was a travesty. Everyone knows it. He has shown nothing that says he will be a good coach even with a roster tailored for his offense. Why the hell would we build a roster tailored for Fred Hoiberg as opposed to finding a coach tailored for the roster. It is a players league.

So it's a players league, yet hiring Hoiberg is a travesty when he doesn't have the players to fit his offense?

Hoiberg was on the radars of a lot of NBA organizations and had previously interviewed for Head Coaching positions, but he chose to go back to Iowa State. Let's not act like Hoiberg was some unqualified no-name hire out of left field.

I think two things are in play here. The front office underestimated Thibs' ability to overachieve with this roster and this roster is poorly constructed, especially for what Fred wants to do. On top of that the injury bug has bit.

This same group of guys quit on Thibs last year, the guy who up to that point had his players willing to go through a wall for a win.

[Ctownbulls]

I dont get the Fred to Tim Floyd comparisons other than Iowa State, Tim Floyd had ZERO NBA experience coming into the NBA. Hoiberg played in the NBA for 10 years under great coaches Larry Brown and Flip Saunders and was an NBA executive. Hoiberg is one of the most experienced coaches the Bulls hired, Tim Floyd had the least experience. Floyd has more comparisons with Thibs since both never played in the league, but of course Thibs had tons and tons of assistant coaching experience at least.

Hoiberg is one of the most experienced coaches hired in comparison to whom exactly?

Thibs - not even close
VDN - comparable
Skiles - not even close

The Hoiberg hiring was a travesty. Everyone knows it. He has shown nothing that says he will be a good coach even with a roster tailored for his offense. Why the hell would we build a roster tailored for Fred Hoiberg as opposed to finding a coach tailored for the roster. It is a players league.

So it's a players league, yet hiring Hoiberg is a travesty when he doesn't have the players to fit his offense?

Hoiberg was on the radars of a lot of NBA organizations and had previously interviewed for Head Coaching positions, but he chose to go back to Iowa State. Let's not act like Hoiberg was some unqualified no-name hire out of left field.

I think two things are in play here. The front office underestimated Thibs' ability to overachieve with this roster and this roster is poorly constructed, especially for what Fred wants to do. On top of that the injury bug has bit.

This same group of guys quit on Thibs last year, the guy who up to that point had his players willing to go through a wall for a win.

A good coach can coach players not a system.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[bennjuiced34]

I dont get the Fred to Tim Floyd comparisons other than Iowa State, Tim Floyd had ZERO NBA experience coming into the NBA. Hoiberg played in the NBA for 10 years under great coaches Larry Brown and Flip Saunders and was an NBA executive. Hoiberg is one of the most experienced coaches the Bulls hired, Tim Floyd had the least experience. Floyd has more comparisons with Thibs since both never played in the league, but of course Thibs had tons and tons of assistant coaching experience at least.

Hoiberg is one of the most experienced coaches hired in comparison to whom exactly?

Thibs - not even close
VDN - comparable
Skiles - not even close

The Hoiberg hiring was a travesty. Everyone knows it. He has shown nothing that says he will be a good coach even with a roster tailored for his offense. Why the hell would we build a roster tailored for Fred Hoiberg as opposed to finding a coach tailored for the roster. It is a players league.

Well from many players points of views they value coaches who played in the NBA, so that actually counts from a managing aspect of it.

I also wrote "arguably" one of the most experienced.

I opposed the Hoiberg rumors for years but I agree with the Thibs firing, I have hopes Fred will work out(whoever was hired) so i think its stupid people condemn him now when he is only a small part of the problem. Your going to have to live with it for at least two years.

And as we found out from Thibs also, this roster is flawed, hard to find a coach out there to fix this junk. Got to change FO first because nobody trusts their decisions so they can hire a new coach. But whoever is coachig the team now I always want them to succeed and not constantly dog him

Hoiberg is the polar opposite of Thibs. Thibs was always barking on the sidelines, telling his guys where they needed to be on offense and defense. Hoiberg doesn't do that. He lets his guys play.

The common denominator is the players. Some of them didn't like Thibs' demonstrative style and some of them are now complaining that Hoiberg doesn't coach them hard enough. Ok, so which is it?

If professionals need to get motivated all the time to do their jobs, that's a problem. I think a lot of the issues come down to roster construction (and injuries), but Fred has questioned their effort this year, media/former players have questioned their effort, Pax questioned their effort and even the players themselves talk about how they need to play harder.

A coach can only do so much with what he has. Is Hoiberg culpable for some of the issues? Absolutely, but it's hard to grade and evaluate a guy when he's been given a giant, steaming pile of crap to work with.

[bennjuiced34]

Hoiberg is one of the most experienced coaches hired in comparison to whom exactly?

Thibs - not even close
VDN - comparable
Skiles - not even close

The Hoiberg hiring was a travesty. Everyone knows it. He has shown nothing that says he will be a good coach even with a roster tailored for his offense. Why the hell would we build a roster tailored for Fred Hoiberg as opposed to finding a coach tailored for the roster. It is a players league.

So it's a players league, yet hiring Hoiberg is a travesty when he doesn't have the players to fit his offense?

Hoiberg was on the radars of a lot of NBA organizations and had previously interviewed for Head Coaching positions, but he chose to go back to Iowa State. Let's not act like Hoiberg was some unqualified no-name hire out of left field.

I think two things are in play here. The front office underestimated Thibs' ability to overachieve with this roster and this roster is poorly constructed, especially for what Fred wants to do. On top of that the injury bug has bit.

This same group of guys quit on Thibs last year, the guy who up to that point had his players willing to go through a wall for a win.

A good coach can coach players not a system.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

And Hoiberg has adjusted the offense to what some of his players wanted, no? Jimmy wanted more iso and he got it. Pau wanted more PnR/Post Ups and he got it.

By all accounts, Fred is a great communicator who attempts to build relationships with his players and he lets them go out and play. He doesn't drive them into the ground every day, he doesn't yell on the sidelines all game and he's been flexible with his system and his rotations.

So when the guys on the team talk about needing to play harder, needing to communicate more...isn't that on the players? And I understand that the issues on this team go past playing harder/communicating, but it's certainly one of the issues right now.

[Crafty_Veteran]

The wrench in the front offices plans for this year was underestimating the willingness of Rose butler gasol to adjust to Hoiberg. Perhaps one of Thibs greatest strengths was commanding the respect of his players, thus the FO inserting Jen Swanson into the mix. Bulls should trade Gasol and Fred should force running his offense w who is left on team, regardless of the final record. And Fred needs to use the rest of the year figuring out how to incorporate an NBA defense alongside his offense.

[MrSparkle]

Well, the big differences are Kerr took over a functional team with upside.. Hoiberg took a dysfunctional team with downside...

A lot of gambles; rookie coach, injury prone and old talent, unproven rotation players...

The worst gamble was definitely believing in Snell and Doug. That was their motive for not adding a veteran wing. I just feel like everyone would be a whole lot happier going to work if there weren't bottom-end-of-the-NBA wings forced into the rotation.

I wonder how GSW would be if Barnes/Iguadala were replaced by Doug and Snell.

I honestly can't think of a worse SF rotation. I'd gladly take Philly's or LAL's guys over them, in a win-now scenario. Basically like the Marquis Teague Twins.

[jump]

Let's compare Hoiberg to Steve Kerr. Kerr is really good. Kerr is so good that he could sit out for three months and his team would become one of the best teams ever - without him even being there! That's how good a coach HE is.

Oh, wait...I forgot to mention...the Warriors have exceptional talent. Maybe that's the difference.

Let's compare Warriors talent to Bulls talent. Warriors are really good. Warriors are so good that they could play without coach for three months and team would become one of the best teams ever - without coach even being there! That's how good and TALENTED team is.

Oh, wait...I forgot to mention...the Warriors have exceptional coach. Maybe that's the difference.

NOT

I think you're agreeing with me, but I'm not sure. In any case, my point is that if you gave Holberg the Warriors roster, he would look like a great coach. Clearly, that team doesn't even need a coach.

[MBPKOGZ]

Hoiberg is one of the most experienced coaches hired in comparison to whom exactly?

Thibs - not even close
VDN - comparable
Skiles - not even close

The Hoiberg hiring was a travesty. Everyone knows it. He has shown nothing that says he will be a good coach even with a roster tailored for his offense. Why the hell would we build a roster tailored for Fred Hoiberg as opposed to finding a coach tailored for the roster. It is a players league.

So it's a players league, yet hiring Hoiberg is a travesty when he doesn't have the players to fit his offense?

Hoiberg was on the radars of a lot of NBA organizations and had previously interviewed for Head Coaching positions, but he chose to go back to Iowa State. Let's not act like Hoiberg was some unqualified no-name hire out of left field.

I think two things are in play here. The front office underestimated Thibs' ability to overachieve with this roster and this roster is poorly constructed, especially for what Fred wants to do. On top of that the injury bug has bit.

This same group of guys quit on Thibs last year, the guy who up to that point had his players willing to go through a wall for a win.

A good coach can coach players not a system.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

You're changing your argument now.

At first you claimed that the roster was tailored for his offense, when it in no way shape or form is.
Now you're saying a good coach will coach players and not a system, which I don't necessarily disagree with but before you switch points you must first acknowledge how asinine your earlier comment was.

[Ctownbulls]

So it's a players league, yet hiring Hoiberg is a travesty when he doesn't have the players to fit his offense?

Hoiberg was on the radars of a lot of NBA organizations and had previously interviewed for Head Coaching positions, but he chose to go back to Iowa State. Let's not act like Hoiberg was some unqualified no-name hire out of left field.

I think two things are in play here. The front office underestimated Thibs' ability to overachieve with this roster and this roster is poorly constructed, especially for what Fred wants to do. On top of that the injury bug has bit.

This same group of guys quit on Thibs last year, the guy who up to that point had his players willing to go through a wall for a win.

A good coach can coach players not a system.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

You're changing your argument now.

At first you claimed that the roster was tailored for his offense, when it in no way shape or form is.
Now you're saying a good coach will coach players and not a system, which I don't necessarily disagree with but before you switch points you must first acknowledge how asinine your earlier comment was.

I never said roster was built for Hoiberg

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[MBPKOGZ]

A good coach can coach players not a system.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

You're changing your argument now.

At first you claimed that the roster was tailored for his offense, when it in no way shape or form is.
Now you're saying a good coach will coach players and not a system, which I don't necessarily disagree with but before you switch points you must first acknowledge how asinine your earlier comment was.

I never said roster was built for Hoiberg

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I never stated that you said this roster was built for him. I stated that you said that it was tailored for him.

And would you look at that:

Hoiberg is one of the most experienced coaches hired in comparison to whom exactly?

Thibs - not even close
VDN - comparable
Skiles - not even close

The Hoiberg hiring was a travesty. Everyone knows it. He has shown nothing that says he will be a good coach even with a roster tailored for his offense. Why the hell would we build a roster tailored for Fred Hoiberg as opposed to finding a coach tailored for the roster. It is a players league.

Even if I used the words built for instead of tailored for you would know very well what I meant because you know the general intention you were trying to convey.

Nice attempt at being disingenuous though...

[DarthDiggler69]

Hoiberg is one of the most experienced coaches hired in comparison to whom exactly?

Thibs - not even close
VDN - comparable
Skiles - not even close

The Hoiberg hiring was a travesty. Everyone knows it. He has shown nothing that says he will be a good coach even with a roster tailored for his offense. Why the hell would we build a roster tailored for Fred Hoiberg as opposed to finding a coach tailored for the roster. It is a players league.

So it's a players league, yet hiring Hoiberg is a travesty when he doesn't have the players to fit his offense?

Hoiberg was on the radars of a lot of NBA organizations and had previously interviewed for Head Coaching positions, but he chose to go back to Iowa State. Let's not act like Hoiberg was some unqualified no-name hire out of left field.

I think two things are in play here. The front office underestimated Thibs' ability to overachieve with this roster and this roster is poorly constructed, especially for what Fred wants to do. On top of that the injury bug has bit.

This same group of guys quit on Thibs last year, the guy who up to that point had his players willing to go through a wall for a win.

A good coach can coach players not a system.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Um didnt Thibs fail at that last season, the team was already in the gutter during the season after the playoffs. The decline was evident

[Ctownbulls]

So it's a players league, yet hiring Hoiberg is a travesty when he doesn't have the players to fit his offense?

Hoiberg was on the radars of a lot of NBA organizations and had previously interviewed for Head Coaching positions, but he chose to go back to Iowa State. Let's not act like Hoiberg was some unqualified no-name hire out of left field.

I think two things are in play here. The front office underestimated Thibs' ability to overachieve with this roster and this roster is poorly constructed, especially for what Fred wants to do. On top of that the injury bug has bit.

This same group of guys quit on Thibs last year, the guy who up to that point had his players willing to go through a wall for a win.

A good coach can coach players not a system.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Um didnt Thibs fail at that last season, the team was already in the gutter during the season after the playoffs. The decline was evident

Wasnt the team better last season?

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[bennjuiced34]

A good coach can coach players not a system.

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Um didnt Thibs fail at that last season, the team was already in the gutter during the season after the playoffs. The decline was evident

Wasnt the team better last season?

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The roster and Thibs' coaching weren't mutually exclusive.

They were both issues. Thibs needed to go but this roster needs significant upgrades, which falls on the front office that called this roster 'championship caliber.'

Hence why they should also be held accountable.

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[RebuildaBulls]

A good coach can coach players not a system.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Um didnt Thibs fail at that last season, the team was already in the gutter during the season after the playoffs. The decline was evident

Wasnt the team better last season?

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Yeah and the team was just working fine and dandy and everyone was happy

Thibs might have been good for a few more wins but the underlying problem would still be there and arguably worse, then it would be another beat down the playoffs vs the Cavs if they ever got there.

At least with Fred he tried to play the young guys, tried to play with pace and experimented with different lineups and match ups per FO'S mandate and exposed the team even more as garbage. It exploded in FO'S face and Hoiberg exposed it whether intentionally or not. Thibs still being around would only hide the problems behind a better record but it would still be the same old horrible team.

[Ctownbulls]

Um didnt Thibs fail at that last season, the team was already in the gutter during the season after the playoffs. The decline was evident

Wasnt the team better last season?

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The roster and Thibs' coaching weren't mutually exclusive.

They were both issues. Thibs needed to go but this roster needs significant upgrades, which falls on the front office that called this roster 'championship caliber.'

Hence why they should also be held accountable.

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I do think the front office should be held accountable for a lot of things. One is the roster. Two is the hiring of Fred. I think Fred is awful, regardless of the roster. He is a coach in training and we have to sit and suffer through it. He almost has no clue what he is doing. Boylen is essentially training Hoiberg on the job. It is a little better now but at the beginning of the year Fred was literally looking over to Boylen for every time out, ever substitution, etc. It's embarrassing. You don't think the players realize that?

[Wingy]

You're still ignoring the context and didn't answer the question.

I'm not ignoring context. Just because you demand something, doesn't mean you get it. It doesn't make a coach better if he yells until he's blue in the face like Thibodeau if the team has tuned him out. Fans have been searching for a reason as to why this team isn't as cohesive, responsive and accountable as years past, and frankly we still don't know. And that's not Hoiberg's fault; he's been here for just over half a season. It's very possible he's coaching next game without Butler, Gibson, Mirotic and Noah. The **** are you supposed to do with that?

You side stepped the original question again. So a third time.

Do you honestly think this group reacts the same to Thibs in YEAR ONE? That they'd give this ho hum effort the first year they're hearing Thibs?

If you do, it's your opinion and you're entitled to it...but it suggests you think this roster inherently much like the Cousins/Rondo-esque Kings in terms of attitude.

[Ctownbulls]

Um didnt Thibs fail at that last season, the team was already in the gutter during the season after the playoffs. The decline was evident

Wasnt the team better last season?

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Yeah and the team was just working fine and dandy and everyone was happy

Thibs might have been good for a few more wins but the underlying problem would still be there and arguably worse, then it would be another beat down the playoffs vs the Cavs if they ever got there.

At least with Fred he tried to play the young guys, tried to play with pace and experimented with different lineups and match ups per FO'S mandate and exposed the team even more as garbage. It exploded in FO'S face and Hoiberg exposed it whether intentionally or not. Thibs still being around would only hide the problems behind a better record but it would still be the same old horrible team.

I don't even get what we are arguing about. Does anyone honestly believe Hoiberg is either the right coach or a good coach? It is a blatant terrible hire.