Update: PG. 10 Woj: Thibs/Wolves Finalizing 5 Year Deal

[TheStig]

But that's not a sustainable model. Towns, Wiggins and Barnes will be making 25 mill a piece. Then you have to pay guys like Lavine, Dieng, Jones and Hield. Those guys will all get at least 10-20 mill. You're talking about the largest payroll in the league by a good margin for Minny.

It’s not a sustainable model if you want to keep them all for 5-10 years, but you hedge your best and maximise your time in finding out who’s best to move forward with by increasing your chances of hitting on a talent by having more of it around. When it’s time to consolidate, you do so for a guy like Butler in 2-3 years’ time when Towns is ready to destroy the world.

Now isn’t that time.

I think you're being a bit idealistic. They haven't made the playoffs in forever. I wouldn't blame them for accelerating the process.

You mention the Thunder but they had 4 guys and broke it up due to cost. The Wolves will have 8. Add in a big signing or long term money and it is just not good. Guys need to play to develop and you've got to give them a chance to develop.

[musiqsoulchild]

The NBA isn't a traditional marketplace. There are less than a handful of people who have the position Thibs does as coach and president.

You're really selling him and a top 30 market in the US short. This isn't McDonalds with 10,000 locations.

No ...I am not. This is what happens all the time.

Unless you have a connect or you are already in line for a job, going up or down a market increases or decreases your role.

Alvin Gentry is an assistant in a bigger, more important NBA market. He used to head coach in Phoenix. This is not even cherry picking - there are LOTS of examples like this.

Detroit was at its lowest nadir when SVG was able to get the dual role. Clippers were a laughing stock before Doc was traded for and took on a dual role. He was coming from a champsionship pedigree in Boston ( another stalwart NBA market).

That's absolutely silly.

By your logic, Steph Curry and Greg Popvich are less of stars than Byron Scott and Kurt Rambis and Melo and Kobe were this past year.

After all, they have a bigger role in a less market.

No. That is like saying BP was a great company to work for - right after the oil spill.

This is no different than standard human behavior.

Lakers have the advantage of offering more money to incentivize talent inspire of their present craziness. That's what a big market does.

Minny offered more money and a bigger role to attract top talent like Thibs precisely because they are a small market.

[Susan]

But that's not a sustainable model. Towns, Wiggins and Barnes will be making 25 mill a piece. Then you have to pay guys like Lavine, Dieng, Jones and Hield. Those guys will all get at least 10-20 mill. You're talking about the largest payroll in the league by a good margin for Minny.

It’s not a sustainable model if you want to keep them all for 5-10 years, but you hedge your best and maximise your time in finding out who’s best to move forward with by increasing your chances of hitting on a talent by having more of it around. When it’s time to consolidate, you do so for a guy like Butler in 2-3 years’ time when Towns is ready to destroy the world.

Now isn’t that time.

I think you're being a bit idealistic. They haven't made the playoffs in forever. I wouldn't blame them for accelerating the process.

You mention the Thunder but they had 4 guys and broke it up due to cost. The Wolves will have 8. Add in a big signing or long term money and it is just not good. Guys need to play to develop and you've got to give them a chance to develop.

I don't think they even need more "talent" but just players who will help shape them. Give me Luol Deng over Barnes everyday of the week for that franchise.

[kingkirk]

I think you're being a bit idealistic. They haven't made the playoffs in forever. I wouldn't blame them for accelerating the process.

You mention the Thunder but they had 4 guys and broke it up due to cost. The Wolves will have 8. Add in a big signing or long term money and it is just not good. Guys need to play to develop and you've got to give them a chance to develop.

Maybe I am, but I don't see why things need to be accelerated and moved forward. Things go wrong when people get antsy. Rushing this thing along doesn't make sense to me. The wave they're on right now, it's perfect. Moving forward by trading for a ready-made guy right now gets you 1-2 seasons of more wins in the short term, but what about on the back end of Butler's deal?

If you've moved 3 assets for him who potentially could have been 10 years guys, for 5 years of Butler, that's a risk too.

The Wolves will have 8, but I don't envision them having 8 forever, so it's a moot point. You see what you have with the guys you've got, then make a call on who you want to keep. Then, you consolidate that number when the time is right, and I don't think that time is now.

Anyways, if the Wolves don't land a top 2 pick, all this talk is a waste of time. A deal wouldn't make sense for the Bulls if all they can get is the 5th or 6th pick.

[Red Larrivee]

It is also interesting that most owners are part of a group who are competitive but also are friends. The Minnesota owner even after knowing all the Thibs issues as per Jerry/GarPax made a priority to get him. And, as per reports, there were many other teams to get him. Why would any owner spend 30-40 million for a guy so badly thought off by another owner?

The last time Minnesota made the playoffs was 2004. They've had multiple failed rebuilds, wasted lottery picks and overall ineptitude during that span. Even though you have no idea what you're getting from Thibodeau as a front office executive, why not give it a try? What's to lose?

I don't know why that card is being played. All of us knew Thibodeau was getting another job. He's too good of a coach even with questions about his personality and militant coaching style. It says nothing about what happened with him and Forman or Paxson.

[TheStig]

I think you're being a bit idealistic. They haven't made the playoffs in forever. I wouldn't blame them for accelerating the process.

You mention the Thunder but they had 4 guys and broke it up due to cost. The Wolves will have 8. Add in a big signing or long term money and it is just not good. Guys need to play to develop and you've got to give them a chance to develop.

Maybe I am, but I don't see why things need to be accelerated and moved forward. Things go wrong when people get antsy. Rushing this thing along doesn't make sense to me. The wave they're on right now, it's perfect. Moving forward by trading for a ready-made guy right now gets you 1-2 seasons of more wins in the short term, but what about on the back end of Butler's deal?

If you've moved 3 assets for him who potentially could have been 10 years guys, for 5 years of Butler, that's a risk too.

The Wolves will have 8, but I don't envision them having 8 forever, so it's a moot point. You see what you have with the guys you've got, then make a call on who you want to keep. Then, you consolidate that number when the time is right, and I don't think that time is now.

Anyways, if the Wolves don't land a top 2 pick, all this talk is a waste of time. A deal wouldn't make sense for the Bulls if all they can get is the 5th or 6th pick.

Another consideration is maybe Thibs doesn't want to draft anyone. He's never done a draft before and he's coming into the position with a very short time table. He's got a very young team. If you can get an allstar for the pick and a piece. Why not?

I don't think it's 3 pieces traded and if its not Butler, it could be someone else. I like a young team but I think its too much youth too.

I don't think they'd trade a top 2 pick. Those are a no brainier. But if they get in the 3-5 range, I can certainly see it.

[johnnyvann840]

It is also interesting that most owners are part of a group who are competitive but also are friends. The Minnesota owner even after knowing all the Thibs issues as per Jerry/GarPax made a priority to get him. And, as per reports, there were many other teams to get him. Why would any owner spend 30-40 million for a guy so badly thought off by another owner?

Sometimes...I wonder if Jerry even released that press release or he is fully aware of it. I think he just rubber-stamps every release paper Gar or Pax gives him. The Thibs firing press release and the recent press release are GarPax's words just released in Jerry's name to show the structure in the organization.

That said, Gar not talking much during the press conference tells us something is going on. He was quieter than usual.

Because nobody believes anything Gar Forman says...... except, unfortunately, it seems, JR.

Why did Ron Adams not have a hard time finding a great gig? He clashed with Gar on several occasions and had a strained relationship with management according to reports. It's the same reason Jimmy Butler's value is still at an all time high despite all the negative press he has received lately. Nobody trusts Gar.

[Red Larrivee]

Why did Ron Adams not have a hard time finding a great gig? He clashed with Gar on several occasions and had a strained relationship with management according to reports. It's the same reason Jimmy Butler's value is still at an all time high despite all the negative press he has received lately. Nobody trusts Gar.

It says nothing about what actually happened in Chicago. Ron Adams leaving sucked, but he wasn't fired because he was a poor basketball assistant. Jim Boylan was a terrible interim coach and has been gainfully employed since. Believe it or not, both of those guys have been NBA assistants for 24 years.

[kingkirk]

Another consideration is maybe Thibs doesn't want to draft anyone. He's never done a draft before and he's coming into the position with a very short time table. He's got a very young team. If you can get an allstar for the pick and a piece. Why not?

I don't think it's 3 pieces traded and if its not Butler, it could be someone else. I like a young team but I think its too much youth too.

I don't think they'd trade a top 2 pick. Those are a no brainier. But if they get in the 3-5 range, I can certainly see it.

But Thibs wanted Draymond Green! The draft is where he does his best work.

Regardless, I think you would need to have a minimum of 3 assets in the deal plus salaries. I don't think the Bulls or any otehr the team with someone of a similar scale would take anything less than 3 assets, be it picks or younger guys. They don't all have to be home runs, but 1 pick and 1 young guy won't cut it imo.

[TheStig]

Another consideration is maybe Thibs doesn't want to draft anyone. He's never done a draft before and he's coming into the position with a very short time table. He's got a very young team. If you can get an allstar for the pick and a piece. Why not?

I don't think it's 3 pieces traded and if its not Butler, it could be someone else. I like a young team but I think its too much youth too.

I don't think they'd trade a top 2 pick. Those are a no brainier. But if they get in the 3-5 range, I can certainly see it.

But Thibs wanted Draymond Green! The draft is where he does his best work.

Regardless, I think you would need to have a minimum of 3 assets in the deal plus salaries. I don't think the Bulls or any otehr the team with someone of a similar scale would take anything less than 3 assets, be it picks or younger guys. They don't all have to be home runs, but 1 pick and 1 young guy won't cut it imo.

But he prepped for that draft

Cap Space is asset #3. I don't think anyone's giving the Bulls 3 assets including a top 5 pick. But knowing Gar, he'll ask for Wiggins or KAT.

[kingkirk]

But he prepped for that draft

Cap Space is asset #3. I don't think anyone's giving the Bulls 3 assets including a top 5 pick. But knowing Gar, he'll ask for Wiggins or KAT.

As an example, you don't think Boston would do the Nets pick, a 2016 mid-first (DAL pick), a younger guy (Rozier, Young, Hunter) and salary for Butler?

Like you hinted at, the Bulls probably don't do it because they ask for Crowder, but I think the Celtics would listen.

[TheStig]

But he prepped for that draft

Cap Space is asset #3. I don't think anyone's giving the Bulls 3 assets including a top 5 pick. But knowing Gar, he'll ask for Wiggins or KAT.

As an example, you don't think Boston would do the Nets pick, a 2016 mid-first (DAL pick), a younger guy (Rozier, Young, Hunter) and salary for Butler?

Like you hinted at, the Bulls probably don't do it because they ask for Crowder, but I think the Celtics would listen.

I mean sure Boston would. But is Dallas's non lotto pick and one of the guys they don't play worth more than Dieng? I'd rather have Dieng. You can pencil him in as the starting C.

[kingkirk]

I mean sure Boston would. But is Dallas's non lotto pick and one of the guys they don't play worth more than Dieng? I'd rather have Dieng. You can pencil him in as the starting C.

I’d prefer the pick, personally. I’m not a huge fan of Dieng. Perhaps if he was younger with more potential but I’m not sure if he will be anything better than an average starting center. I’d prefer to take a punt on someone like Wade Baldwin at 16 (if he’s still around) and getting a cheapish big in free agency.

You’ll have to pay Dieng soon, too.

[andyhop]

That's an assumption yet to be proven. Taylor is a known meddler as an owner. The fact that Flip just passed so there hasn't been a chance to meddle doesn't change that fact. Maybe he's turned a new leaf but I doubt it.

If your point is it's not dysfunctional because Thibs is in charge then you're just assuming your conclusion.

No idea where you get the idea that Taylor is a meddler from , he is actually totally the opposite. His MO has been to appoint people because he likes them and then let them have free reign over the organisation with little oversight even when it is obvious to everyone that they are failing abysmally in their job

[TheStig]

I mean sure Boston would. But is Dallas's non lotto pick and one of the guys they don't play worth more than Dieng? I'd rather have Dieng. You can pencil him in as the starting C.

I’d prefer the pick, personally. I’m not a huge fan of Dieng. Perhaps if he was younger with more potential but I’m not sure if he will be anything better than an average starting center. I’d prefer to take a punt on someone like Wade Baldwin at 16 (if he’s still around) and getting a cheapish big in free agency.

You’ll have to pay Dieng soon, too.

Now you're just being difficult. The chances of getting an average starting center at 16 are slim.

[kingkirk]

Now you're just being difficult. The chances of getting an average starting center at 16 are slim.

I'm not being difficult. I specifically said I wanted Wade Baldwin, a guard, at 16.

[TheStig]

Now you're just being difficult. The chances of getting an average starting center at 16 are slim.

I'm not being difficult. I specifically said I wanted Wade Baldwin, a guard, at 16.

And he's certainly not gonna be a starting center with that attitude

[kingkirk]

And he's certainly not gonna be a starting center with that attitude

Given the talent here at the moment, hey, it's possible.

[Klomp]

Fired by the Bulls in part because of conflicts with management, Thibodeau negotiated the president of basketball operations title into his Wolves deal.

“It wasn’t an absolute must, but I’m glad it has worked out that way,” he said. “I just wanted to make sure I had a voice. The person I’m with, I trust Scott. He has great integrity. He’s a great worker and he has great experience.”

He cited that partnership, the team’s young roster — “and where it can go” — and owner Glen Taylor’s “commitment to winning” as the reasons he agreed to a reported five-year, $40 million contract only a week after the Wolves announced they’d search to fill two jobs and ended up filling three.

“When you look at the young guys, when you look at the [salary] cap space, when you look at the draft pick that’s coming, there’s great flexibility there,” Thibodeau said. “There are a lot of assets there. If you formulate a really good plan that studies and organizes everything, I think this situation is positioned great to go forward.”

He calls himself well-suited to coach such a young team, noting Derrick Rose was 22 and Joakim Noah 25 when he accepted his first NBA head coaching job in 2010. Often criticized for playing his starters too much, he answered Taylor’s inquiry on that matter by telling him to speak with former players. On Thursday, he said his Bulls players’ minutes compared to others at their position in the league.

“Some of it is more myth than fact,” Thibodeau said. “If you dig deeper, you will see that. A lot of other guys play a lot of minutes.”

http://www.startribune.com/master-architect-new-wolves-boss-tom-thibodeau-assesses-the-job-ahead/376655621/

[musiqsoulchild]

Fired by the Bulls in part because of conflicts with management, Thibodeau negotiated the president of basketball operations title into his Wolves deal.

“It wasn’t an absolute must, but I’m glad it has worked out that way,” he said. “I just wanted to make sure I had a voice. The person I’m with, I trust Scott. He has great integrity. He’s a great worker and he has great experience.”

He cited that partnership, the team’s young roster — “and where it can go” — and owner Glen Taylor’s “commitment to winning” as the reasons he agreed to a reported five-year, $40 million contract only a week after the Wolves announced they’d search to fill two jobs and ended up filling three.

“When you look at the young guys, when you look at the [salary] cap space, when you look at the draft pick that’s coming, there’s great flexibility there,” Thibodeau said. “There are a lot of assets there. If you formulate a really good plan that studies and organizes everything, I think this situation is positioned great to go forward.”

He calls himself well-suited to coach such a young team, noting Derrick Rose was 22 and Joakim Noah 25 when he accepted his first NBA head coaching job in 2010. Often criticized for playing his starters too much, he answered Taylor’s inquiry on that matter by telling him to speak with former players. On Thursday, he said his Bulls players’ minutes compared to others at their position in the league.

“Some of it is more myth than fact,” Thibodeau said. “If you dig deeper, you will see that. A lot of other guys play a lot of minutes.”

http://www.startribune.com/master-architect-new-wolves-boss-tom-thibodeau-assesses-the-job-ahead/376655621/

Thanks for posting that Klomp, its exactly as I suspected. He's sticking to his guns.

You are going to love him in Minny for 3 seasons. Maybe 4. Before the pitchforks come out.