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Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking

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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#221 » by kingkirk » Sun Dec 4, 2016 8:24 pm

DanTown8587 wrote:I'm not sure Gary Harris is a better player than Doug. He's so passive offensively (he doesn't hit a ton of threes and he doesn't handle that well) that being a "better defender" than Doug isn't that valuable if you downgrade the offense. If Gary Harris was a Bull, we'd question a lot of his game and the lack of ability to actually impact a game. He's a slightly worse Aaron Afflalo, who is not a great player.

if they had stayed at 16/19 the two guys I wanted were McGary and Hood.


Agree to disagree. I think he brings more to the table and is more valuable. Someone mentioned that these others guys are on worse teams therefore get more of an opportunity, but the Nuggets have a lot of depth. I think he could show more.

Like you, I wanted Hood at 19 (instead of Harris), but I was in at Nurkic at C, which is even more frustrating now thinking about the hole that exists at backup C currently.
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#222 » by MrSparkle » Sun Dec 4, 2016 9:07 pm

Mark K wrote:
DanTown8587 wrote:I'm not sure Gary Harris is a better player than Doug. He's so passive offensively (he doesn't hit a ton of threes and he doesn't handle that well) that being a "better defender" than Doug isn't that valuable if you downgrade the offense. If Gary Harris was a Bull, we'd question a lot of his game and the lack of ability to actually impact a game. He's a slightly worse Aaron Afflalo, who is not a great player.

if they had stayed at 16/19 the two guys I wanted were McGary and Hood.


Agree to disagree. I think he brings more to the table and is more valuable. Someone mentioned that these others guys are on worse teams therefore get more of an opportunity, but the Nuggets have a lot of depth. I think he could show more.

Like you, I wanted Hood at 19 (instead of Harris), but I was in at Nurkic at C, which is even more frustrating now thinking about the hole that exists at backup C currently.


Yeah, really no way to defend the 2-for-1 Doug trade IMO.

LaVine
Warren
---
2 of these guys:
Nurkic
Hood
Capela
Bogdanovic

2nd rd.:

Jerami Grant
Jokic
Powell
Clarkson

Gar took Doug with 2 picks, and took Bairstow in a somewhat interesting/deep draft with numerous rotation players that have come out the 2nd round.

Doug does have potential to become a very good 6th man, possibly a starter later in his career if he adapts really well to the NBA, but for a 25-year old still figuring it out, he was obviously not a good pick for a contending team that had numerous better options.
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#223 » by XxMisterFreakXx » Sun Dec 4, 2016 9:57 pm

Mark K wrote:
Chi town wrote:If Dougie got the shots that Harris, Hood, and Nurkic have gotten I think you would see different results. Those guys have put up stats on bad teams that are relatively young... Dougie on a vet team with a pecking order.

Dougie's D has gotten alot better. He's not a libaility on D anymore. I wouldn't call him 2 way yet nor will he ever be but I would never call Hood 2 way either. Nurkic is solid on D and Harris too but neither of them are plus defenders.


'Dougie' couldn't get the shots Hood gets because he's not good enough to be in the game as long as Hood can be, nor is he creative enough offensively to get the shots Hood gets.

There is no comparison. Hood is a far superior player than McDermott, and if the Bulls wanted to take a more mature player, he would have been the better option.

As for Doug not being a liability on D anymore, cmon man...

Hood, Nurkic, and Harris are certainly two way guys, particularly the latter, who is Denver's lead perimeter defender.


'Dougie' couldn't get the shots Hood gets because he's not good enough to be in the game as long as Hood can be, nor is he creative enough offensively to get the shots Hood gets.


Doug is much more of a versatile offensive player than he's given credit for he needs the ball more in his hands he always showed a good off the dribble game in college with his one-legged fadeaway being able to create but he doesn't get the ball enough to show it plus athletically I think he's much better then what people give him credit for. Hood, I often see them setting picks to get him open but on occasion, I do see an iso here and there but he plays for the Jazz he's gonna be allowed to shoot whenever he wants to would be the same case with Doug if he was still in Denver. Doug is a role player here as would Hood if he was a Bull. Doug wouldn't be a role player if he was on the Nuggets or the Jazz

There is no comparison. Hood is a far superior player than McDermott, and if the Bulls wanted to take a more mature player, he would have been the better option.


Ya, I think in terms of maturity ya but Hood's his scoring/shooting wasn't ready he still isn't a very good shooter but he's an OK defender but not a great defender. Doug in terms of his shooting/scoring/offense was ready he had the injury that cost him all his rookie year and I think if he didn't go down with the injury his rookie year he would've made a good impact and maybe even improves defense under Thibs cause he played a great first couple games and was playing confidently.

As for Doug not being a liability on D anymore, cmon man...


I do think Doug is still a liability but he plays with an awful defensive bench so that doesn't help things but I don't think he is as BIG as a liability as he was last year. I thought Doug has taken strides on the defensive end. I've seen Doug make some nice plays on defense that no one really talks about especially plays in transition when he was the only one back and has done a better job staying in front of his man, and keeping track of his man. He still gets blown by at times one on one but it's not every possession like it was last year. Doug still has a lot to improve on defense in areas but I've seen positives from him. I'd be fine if Doug can get near Reddick's level defensively cause I know that's possible for him. Reddick was never a good defender but he had a good work ethic and heart which Doug has.

Hood, Nurkic, and Harris are certainly two way guys, particularly the latter, who is Denver's lead perimeter defender.


I would say Harris and and Nurkic are 2 way guys but I disagree on Hood I have watched him at times and really he's isn't all that great on defense but he's ok
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#224 » by DanTown8587 » Sun Dec 4, 2016 10:07 pm

tong po wrote:
DanTown8587 wrote:I won't dispute that the results have been good because they have been quite mixed with Doug (who definitely failed at being a day one impact) but I'm not sure that's bad process but more bad results.

I'd say that something like Len Bias is "bad results." Bad scouting can't be separated from the "process." Projecting a player's on-court contributions is ultimately at the core of any basketball management decision.


I agree scouting is a process but I guess the question is what did the Bulls think McDermott's realistic floor/ceiling/outcome was? SOME fans here had high hopes in terms of what he can do (I was probably in the 85th percentile of McDermott hype) but I can't possibly know what they realistically thought Doug would do at this level. Better Korver? Wally Z? Offensive focal point off a bench? We can't judge the front office on what they thought since none of us know that. I don't use the results to formulate what the process should have been, that's stupid.

It's the beginning of year three; it's a little early to right off his NBA career.

tong po wrote:
DanTown8587 wrote:If Gary Harris was a Bull, we'd question a lot of his game and the lack of ability to actually impact a game. He's a slightly worse Aaron Afflalo, who is not a great player.

If Doug McDermott is on the Blazers or Wizards or whatever, do you think anybody here thinks he's any good? Be honest.


If McDermott were healthy and scoring and being a 18-4 / 36 min guy (slightly more usage) and playing close to those minutes and was an efficient bench scorer, I think people would say "man, we have no scorers on the bench, why didn't we get a scorer in McDermott instead of another two way player who can't score or really defend in Gary Harris". This board is highly irrational with how they view their own players v others on both sides; either guy A is a future all-star or doesn't deserve a roster spot or some guy on another team is an all-star or blows ass.

I have no argument with saying Harris or McDermott are about equals right now on a basketball floor; I dispute that either one is vastly better than the other. I have said since pre-draft that McDermott was probably the worse player I would have traded up for (I actually wanted Stauskas pre-draft) so I think trading up was a disagreement over what the best move was. And if you would have told me that the Bulls left that draft with Harris and Nurkic, I would have considered it the worse case scenario in that draft.
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#225 » by RedBulls23 » Sun Dec 4, 2016 11:20 pm

I like Doug, and he can still become a good long term player, but having Hood and Nurkic certainly would have been much better for the team. Especially depth wise.

Oh well. Water under the bridge at this point.
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#226 » by GimmeDat » Mon Dec 5, 2016 1:10 am

In other news, the Kings could do with a win tonight against NY. Losing after 1 quarter, mainly because Rose has come out strong actually. They can definitely win this one though.

Kings at 10th right now and a win would bring them up to 8-12.
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#227 » by kulaz3000 » Mon Dec 5, 2016 1:37 am

As much as I still hope that the Kings will win just enough that we can get their pick, I think it's highly unlikely. The entire situations lays on the shoulders of DeMarcus and being that he can't be relied upon as a leader for a franchise that wins game, I can't find myself seeing the Kings being able to consistently enough ball games.
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#228 » by GimmeDat » Mon Dec 5, 2016 6:48 am

Well, they had a chance, but they blew that one. 7-13 now.

Can see LA struggling to keep up their pace, I think they're semi-sustainable though. Orlando might get worse as well. Would be very tough for the Kings to pass ATL/Indiana though. The teams below the Kings aren't going to be much better than them at this rate though, so I think it'll be a close call again this season so long as they don't trade DMC.

I actually wonder what happens with Atlanta, on second thought. They've lost 9 of their last 10. You'd imagine this is their rock bottom and they improve again, but if they keep struggle maybe there course changes.. not saying I see them blowing it up, but if they did, it's another team the Kings could leapfrog.
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#229 » by realEAST » Mon Dec 5, 2016 11:32 am

Kings are like rookie team but consisting of vets, they'll win one out of ten close games. And most of them is close. Guess that's partly DMC effect.
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#230 » by TimRobbins » Mon Dec 5, 2016 12:27 pm

So who's available with these second rounders?
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#231 » by realEAST » Mon Dec 5, 2016 12:47 pm

Havent watched them too closely, but on a glance - Mykhailiuk, M. Morris, Bacon, Kaba, Hart, Hayes are those I am a bit familiar with. Also, Malcom Hill getting some hype recently, and putting up very good numbers, so he might be there. Justin Jackson from North Carolina too.
I guess if Robert Williams falls, he should be front runner.
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#232 » by arich35 » Wed Dec 7, 2016 5:34 am

Amile Jefferson reminds me a lot of Taj Gibson
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Re: RE: Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#233 » by kyrv » Wed Dec 7, 2016 10:00 pm

tong po wrote:
DanTown8587 wrote:I won't dispute that the results have been good because they have been quite mixed with Doug (who definitely failed at being a day one impact) but I'm not sure that's bad process but more bad results.

I'd say that something like Len Bias is "bad results." Bad scouting can't be separated from the "process." Projecting a player's on-court contributions is ultimately at the core of any basketball management decision.

DanTown8587 wrote:If Gary Harris was a Bull, we'd question a lot of his game and the lack of ability to actually impact a game. He's a slightly worse Aaron Afflalo, who is not a great player.

If Doug McDermott is on the Blazers or Wizards or whatever, do you think anybody here thinks he's any good? Be honest.


Of course he would be coveted. We have been willing to pay much more for much worse players. Players on other teams are measured by what they can do, players already on the team by what they can't do.
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#234 » by Chi town » Thu Dec 8, 2016 12:29 am

arich35 wrote:Amile Jefferson reminds me a lot of Taj Gibson


Or Shelden Williams

Or Hakim Warrick


He is no mocks radar. I think the kid can play and will get drafted.
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#235 » by MC3 » Thu Dec 8, 2016 2:16 pm



not getting either of them but for fun
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#236 » by DuckIII » Thu Dec 8, 2016 2:38 pm

Yeah, I love both those guys.

I admit it's the only time I watched Fox play, but I absolutely loved his game. Loved it.
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#237 » by Chi town » Thu Dec 8, 2016 4:09 pm

DuckIII wrote:Yeah, I love both those guys.

I admit it's the only time I watched Fox play, but I absolutely loved his game. Loved it.


Fox is gettable. He will go 8-12. He'd be a great fit next to jimmy.


My realistic board w trade ups...
OG
Fox
Jackson
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#238 » by TheSuzerain » Thu Dec 8, 2016 5:12 pm

ewww not Amile Jefferson

Taj was a Conference DPOY.

Jefferson is..uhh...not that.
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#239 » by realEAST » Thu Dec 8, 2016 5:32 pm

Chi town wrote:
DuckIII wrote:Yeah, I love both those guys.

I admit it's the only time I watched Fox play, but I absolutely loved his game. Loved it.


Fox is gettable. He will go 8-12. He'd be a great fit next to jimmy.


My realistic board w trade ups...
OG
Fox
Jackson



Ok. And how would you trade up from 20th pick (+/- pos or two) to the 9th or 10th? And please don't say using Mirotic - he is RFA, just to begin with.
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Re: Draft Talk/Kings Pick Tracking 

Post#240 » by Chi town » Thu Dec 8, 2016 6:36 pm

realEAST wrote:
Chi town wrote:
DuckIII wrote:Yeah, I love both those guys.

I admit it's the only time I watched Fox play, but I absolutely loved his game. Loved it.


Fox is gettable. He will go 8-12. He'd be a great fit next to jimmy.


My realistic board w trade ups...
OG
Fox
Jackson



Ok. And how would you trade up from 20th pick (+/- pos or two) to the 9th or 10th? And please don't say using Mirotic - he is RFA, just to begin with.


Val,Niko in S+T, Grant

May not have to if we land kings pick

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