PG- Our Superstar gets that superstar foul call

[DuckIII]

Rose has never been a good defender. There's no excuse for it.

This isn't true. He definitely could play defense during his peak, but you were likely a Heat fan during that stretch so you probably wouldn't have noticed.

No, it's true. Rose was never a good defender. He improved to the point that he was no longer bad and a liability, but he never became affirmatively good.

It's also true that there was no excuse for it.

[League Circles]

Rose has never been a good defender. There's no excuse for it.

This isn't true. He definitely could play defense during his peak, but you were likely a Heat fan during that stretch so you probably wouldn't have noticed.

No, it's true. Rose was never a good defender. He improved to the point that he was no longer bad and a liability, but he never became affirmatively good.

It's also true that there was no excuse for it.

I disagree on two counts.

First, in his 3rd and 4th years IMO he was definitely a plus defender, especially when it was most needed against the tougher PGs.

I also disagree that there wasn't an excuse for it. You know how color guys and other media types often praise a guy who is great both ways and talk about how difficult it is? That's cause it is. It takes extreme stamina and strength to play at a high level on both ends.

Now consider that due to play style, it may be a fair claim that in his first few years, Rose exerted himself more on the offensive end more than any player in the league. He simply didn't have enough juice to go all out on the other end all the time. Had to pick his spots.

After his injuries he's just been a poor defender so much of the time because he's afraid of injury and lacks some motivation IMO.

[kyrv]

Rose has never been a good defender. There's no excuse for it.

This isn't true. He definitely could play defense during his peak, but you were likely a Heat fan during that stretch so you probably wouldn't have noticed.

I agree. His good defense wasn't long term but definitely a plus defender for a while there. Certainly not a negative. But short term.

[kingkirk]

That's not true but good try. Rose was an overrated defender and a glorified chucker, probably one of the worst MVPs we've seen. I'm tired of hearing about the dude honestly. Literally every topic on here comes back to Rose somehow. It fit your 48-52 wins at the least criteria though so I'm sure you were ecstatic. I'm still cracking up that you tried to make an argument for Rose being a more efficient player than Wade in another thread. Just because you do a little podcast or whatever doesn't mean you know as much as you claim, the smart remarks in reply to multiple posters on here is getting pretty old. I'm not sure why you think so highly of your self.

A Wade/Heat fan would say this. The reason I give you these smart ass remarks is because you're constantly posting about Wade as if it was 2009. He's not as good as you say as he is and reading it is frustrating.

In this thread, it was asked what other players than Butler and Leonard are the main offensive weapon who also guards the best scorer of the other team. Answering Wade to this question is disingenuous. You don't need a podcast to come to that conclusion.

[kingkirk]

No, it's true. Rose was never a good defender. He improved to the point that he was no longer bad and a liability, but he never became affirmatively good.

It's also true that there was no excuse for it.

Well, I disagree. We may have different requirements as to what justifies a good defender, but under Thibs during his peak seasons, I thought his defense was good. Some games it wasn't, but during a lot of games, his defense was super tight. He was never very good or even great on D, but I don't think it's outlandish to suggest he progressed to being a good defender.

But, as I said, maybe we have different definitions of good.

[Bulls03]

That's not true but good try. Rose was an overrated defender and a glorified chucker, probably one of the worst MVPs we've seen. I'm tired of hearing about the dude honestly. Literally every topic on here comes back to Rose somehow. It fit your 48-52 wins at the least criteria though so I'm sure you were ecstatic. I'm still cracking up that you tried to make an argument for Rose being a more efficient player than Wade in another thread. Just because you do a little podcast or whatever doesn't mean you know as much as you claim, the smart remarks in reply to multiple posters on here is getting pretty old. I'm not sure why you think so highly of your self.

A Wade/Heat fan would say this. The reason I give you these smart ass remarks is because you're constantly posting about Wade as if it was 2009. He's not as good as you say as he is and reading it is frustrating.

In this thread, it was asked what other players than Butler and Leonard are the main offensive weapon who also guards the best scorer of the other team. Answering Wade to this question is disingenuous. You don't need a podcast to come to that conclusion.

I defend Wade and Butler. That's fine if he isn't the top offensive option but it's a plus that we have 2 guys capable of doing that. No one bashes butler anymore so for the most part I don't have to defend him. I give credit where it is due to every player and I also take shots at Wade and Butler when I feel they're playing bad. Those are the 2 building blocks and we need to add on to the asap.

[rtblues]

Zzzzz, Rose WAS this, Rose was THAT...
Man, if possible, move on....
Tiresome topic, guy who's gone, who cares about arguing the minutia of what he once was, allegedly...
Maybe start a Rose memorial thread, but every friggin' thread getting hijacked into a Rose memories thread has gotten TIRED.
Finished thinking about a Knicks player who doesn't give a crap about Chicago or it's fans, and is not a factor here anymore.

[kingkirk]

I defend Wade and Butler. That's fine if he isn't the top offensive option but it's a plus that we have 2 guys capable of doing that. No one bashes butler anymore so for the most part I don't have to defend him. I give credit where it is due to every player and I also take shots at Wade and Butler when I feel they're playing bad. Those are the 2 building blocks and we need to add on to the asap.

It's one thing to defend Wade. It's another to boast and portray him as something he's not. That's why I took exception to the original post I quoted.

[rtblues]

RE: "The Call"
NBA has ruled on the Butler foul call at end of BOS game.
It was the right call and justified, and backed by the league now, after review.

Told ya!

[rtblues]

RE: "The Call"
NBA has ruled on the Butler foul call at end of BOS game.
It was the right call and justified, and backed by the league now, after review.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18707637/nba-last-2-minute-report-says-marcus-smart-foul-jimmy-butler-was-right-call

"In the league's daily Last 2 Minute report, it wrote that the foul whistled by referee Zach Zarba was the correct call. In the comment about the play, the league noted, "Smart (BOS) makes contact with Butler's (CHI) arm that affects his jump shot attempt. Any contact to a shooter's hand, arm, or wrist prior to the release of the shot is considered a foul."

Told ya!

[Chi town]

That's not true but good try. Rose was an overrated defender and a glorified chucker, probably one of the worst MVPs we've seen. I'm tired of hearing about the dude honestly. Literally every topic on here comes back to Rose somehow. It fit your 48-52 wins at the least criteria though so I'm sure you were ecstatic. I'm still cracking up that you tried to make an argument for Rose being a more efficient player than Wade in another thread. Just because you do a little podcast or whatever doesn't mean you know as much as you claim, the smart remarks in reply to multiple posters on here is getting pretty old. I'm not sure why you think so highly of your self.

A Wade/Heat fan would say this. The reason I give you these smart ass remarks is because you're constantly posting about Wade as if it was 2009. He's not as good as you say as he is and reading it is frustrating.

In this thread, it was asked what other players than Butler and Leonard are the main offensive weapon who also guards the best scorer of the other team. Answering Wade to this question is disingenuous. You don't need a podcast to come to that conclusion.

I defend Wade and Butler. That's fine if he isn't the top offensive option but it's a plus that we have 2 guys capable of doing that. No one bashes butler anymore so for the most part I don't have to defend him. I give credit where it is due to every player and I also take shots at Wade and Butler when I feel they're playing bad. Those are the 2 building blocks and we need to add on to the asap.

I get you love Wade and you do add more to the board than just Wade comments but I think you are the only person here that takes it personal when someone disagrees with you about Wade. That's the rub. Agree to disagree.

As for building blocks... don't think Wade is one due to age and contract. Don't see a way where Bulls resign him past next season.

[Bulls03]

I defend Wade and Butler. That's fine if he isn't the top offensive option but it's a plus that we have 2 guys capable of doing that. No one bashes butler anymore so for the most part I don't have to defend him. I give credit where it is due to every player and I also take shots at Wade and Butler when I feel they're playing bad. Those are the 2 building blocks and we need to add on to the asap.

It's one thing to defend Wade. It's another to boast and portray him as something he's not. That's why I took exception to the original post I quoted.

He's an elite closer on both ends and will step his overall play up in the playoffs. We'll leave it at that.

[Bulls03]

A Wade/Heat fan would say this. The reason I give you these smart ass remarks is because you're constantly posting about Wade as if it was 2009. He's not as good as you say as he is and reading it is frustrating.

In this thread, it was asked what other players than Butler and Leonard are the main offensive weapon who also guards the best scorer of the other team. Answering Wade to this question is disingenuous. You don't need a podcast to come to that conclusion.

I defend Wade and Butler. That's fine if he isn't the top offensive option but it's a plus that we have 2 guys capable of doing that. No one bashes butler anymore so for the most part I don't have to defend him. I give credit where it is due to every player and I also take shots at Wade and Butler when I feel they're playing bad. Those are the 2 building blocks and we need to add on to the asap.

I get you love Wade and you do add more to the board than just Wade comments but I think you are the only person here that takes it personal when someone disagrees with you about Wade. That's the rub. Agree to disagree.

As for building blocks... don't think Wade is one due to age and contract. Don't see a way where Bulls resign him past next season.

When it's something as absurd as we would be better with Courtney Lee it gets frustrating but there are also things people say about him that I agree with. I will feel free to give my full rundown on what I believe Wade currently is and what him and Butler can do surrounded by the right pieces of someone asks of it.

As for building blocks, I think he has 2 more years at this level. Things can instantly change in 1 summer or trade deadline. We need to do our best to put together a contender while we have him and Butler under contract.

[DroseReturnChi]

Rose has never been a good defender. There's no excuse for it.

This isn't true. He definitely could play defense during his peak, but you were likely a Heat fan during that stretch so you probably wouldn't have noticed.

No, it's true. Rose was never a good defender. He improved to the point that he was no longer bad and a liability, but he never became affirmatively good.

It's also true that there was no excuse for it.

Rose was one of the best pg defenders during his prime. He would guard CP3, Westbrook, anyone and hold them to below their average.
He's 6-3 build made it tough for opponents to shoot well since he could block the shot so well maybe next to Wade.

[DroseReturnChi]

No, it's true. Rose was never a good defender. He improved to the point that he was no longer bad and a liability, but he never became affirmatively good.

It's also true that there was no excuse for it.

Well, I disagree. We may have different requirements as to what justifies a good defender, but under Thibs during his peak seasons, I thought his defense was good. Some games it wasn't, but during a lot of games, his defense was super tight. He was never very good or even great on D, but I don't think it's outlandish to suggest he progressed to being a good defender.

But, as I said, maybe we have different definitions of good.

I feel there's a lot of Butler diehard fans out there now denying what Rose did and paint him as a poor defender. I hope I can do the same when Butler gets traded and people start to forget about him. The hate is real.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Watch on YouTube

[RedBulls23]

No, it's true. Rose was never a good defender. He improved to the point that he was no longer bad and a liability, but he never became affirmatively good.

It's also true that there was no excuse for it.

Well, I disagree. We may have different requirements as to what justifies a good defender, but under Thibs during his peak seasons, I thought his defense was good. Some games it wasn't, but during a lot of games, his defense was super tight. He was never very good or even great on D, but I don't think it's outlandish to suggest he progressed to being a good defender.

But, as I said, maybe we have different definitions of good.

Rose was passable defender for like 2 seasons of his career, but that was also because he had an elite pnr big backing him up in Noah.

Since his injuries, he's been atrocious. He was also bad his first 2 seasons in the league.

[dice]

This isn't true. He definitely could play defense during his peak, but you were likely a Heat fan during that stretch so you probably wouldn't have noticed.

No, it's true. Rose was never a good defender. He improved to the point that he was no longer bad and a liability, but he never became affirmatively good.

It's also true that there was no excuse for it.

Rose was one of the best pg defenders during his prime. He would guard CP3, Westbrook, anyone and hold them to below their average.
He's 6-3 build made it tough for opponents to shoot well since he could block the shot so well maybe next to Wade.

holding guys to below their average doesn't count for much when you've got great team defense

his defensive numbers WERE very good under thibs pre-surgery though

[dice]

I defend Wade and Butler. That's fine if he isn't the top offensive option but it's a plus that we have 2 guys capable of doing that. No one bashes butler anymore so for the most part I don't have to defend him. I give credit where it is due to every player and I also take shots at Wade and Butler when I feel they're playing bad. Those are the 2 building blocks and we need to add on to the asap.

It's one thing to defend Wade. It's another to boast and portray him as something he's not. That's why I took exception to the original post I quoted.

He's an elite closer on both ends and will step his overall play up in the playoffs. We'll leave it at that.

if he doesn't step up his play soon we may not make the playoffs. and contrary to popular belief, he wasn't great in the playoffs last season. very inconsistent

[dice]

RE: "The Call"
NBA has ruled on the Butler foul call at end of BOS game.
It was the right call and justified, and backed by the league now, after review.

Told ya!

first time i've chimed in, but you were absolutely correct. the contact affected the shot. there was an angle i saw from behind the defender where it was very clear