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Guru wrote:Team should make an easy jump forward

Will be adding whatever we trade Lavine for and a top 12 pick to
1 White 6'5 195 23 2 Carter 6'1 200 27 2
2 Caruso 6'5 186 29 1 Dosunmo 6'5 200 23 2 Terry 6'7 195 21 3
3 DeRozan 6'6 220 33 0 Bitim 6'6 215 24 0 Taylor 6'4 230 24 1
4 Williams 6'7 215 21 1 Craig 6'7 221 32 1 Phillips 6'8 198 20 3
5 Vucevic 6'10 260 32 2 Drummond 6'11 279 29 0 Sonogo 6'9 245 21 0

Keep in mind that the Bulls have to make a decision on contracts for DDR, PW and Drummond. There's a possibility that they won't have money for Drummond unless they pay the tax.

Then you have Lonzo coming back after 2.5 years of not playing competitive basketball. Will he be healthy? How much will he contribute?

The other injury concern is PW. Will he be fully healed or will it be an on and off thing? Was he able to train much in the off season? How much improvement did he make?

On top of that there's Zach. The team will most likely showcase him and then trade him at the deadline. That's a distraction (even though it's not Zach's fault). What will the team get for him? Who knows. Hopefully an asset.

Dan Z wrote:

Guru wrote:Team should make an easy jump forward

Will be adding whatever we trade Lavine for and a top 12 pick to
1 White 6'5 195 23 2 Carter 6'1 200 27 2
2 Caruso 6'5 186 29 1 Dosunmo 6'5 200 23 2 Terry 6'7 195 21 3
3 DeRozan 6'6 220 33 0 Bitim 6'6 215 24 0 Taylor 6'4 230 24 1
4 Williams 6'7 215 21 1 Craig 6'7 221 32 1 Phillips 6'8 198 20 3
5 Vucevic 6'10 260 32 2 Drummond 6'11 279 29 0 Sonogo 6'9 245 21 0

Keep in mind that the Bulls have to make a decision on contracts for DDR, PW and Drummond. There's a possibility that they won't have money for Drummond unless they pay the tax.

Then you have Lonzo coming back after 2.5 years of not playing competitive basketball. Will he be healthy? How much will he contribute?

The other injury concern is PW. Will he be fully healed or will it be an on and off thing? Was he able to train much in the off season? How much improvement did he make?

On top of that there's Zach. The team will most likely showcase him and then trade him at the deadline. That's a distraction (even though it's not Zach's fault). What will the team get for him? Who knows. Hopefully an asset.

All this.

I don't think it's an easy of a 'slam dunk' as it's being made out to be.

So many variables plus who knows if Coby and Ayo improve more, they could regress. Age may hit DeRozan and Vucevic hard and they also regress/provide less impact. A pick somewhere between 12 and 16 is a crapshoot, no idea if it'll be any good. Do they pay the tax (unlikely) or don't they?

There's next to no reason to believe this team will be better next year compared to previous seasons.

Dan Z wrote:

Guru wrote:Team should make an easy jump forward

Will be adding whatever we trade Lavine for and a top 12 pick to
1 White 6'5 195 23 2 Carter 6'1 200 27 2
2 Caruso 6'5 186 29 1 Dosunmo 6'5 200 23 2 Terry 6'7 195 21 3
3 DeRozan 6'6 220 33 0 Bitim 6'6 215 24 0 Taylor 6'4 230 24 1
4 Williams 6'7 215 21 1 Craig 6'7 221 32 1 Phillips 6'8 198 20 3
5 Vucevic 6'10 260 32 2 Drummond 6'11 279 29 0 Sonogo 6'9 245 21 0

Keep in mind that the Bulls have to make a decision on contracts for DDR, PW and Drummond. There's a possibility that they won't have money for Drummond unless they pay the tax.

Then you have Lonzo coming back after 2.5 years of not playing competitive basketball. Will he be healthy? How much will he contribute?

The other injury concern is PW. Will he be fully healed or will it be an on and off thing? Was he able to train much in the off season? How much improvement did he make?

On top of that there's Zach. The team will most likely showcase him and then trade him at the deadline. That's a distraction (even though it's not Zach's fault). What will the team get for him? Who knows. Hopefully an asset.

If they just get rid of Lonzo they can bring back DDR, Will and Drummond....Easy....Peasy....Beautiful....Covergirl

Guru wrote:

Dan Z wrote:

Guru wrote:Team should make an easy jump forward

Will be adding whatever we trade Lavine for and a top 12 pick to
1 White 6'5 195 23 2 Carter 6'1 200 27 2
2 Caruso 6'5 186 29 1 Dosunmo 6'5 200 23 2 Terry 6'7 195 21 3
3 DeRozan 6'6 220 33 0 Bitim 6'6 215 24 0 Taylor 6'4 230 24 1
4 Williams 6'7 215 21 1 Craig 6'7 221 32 1 Phillips 6'8 198 20 3
5 Vucevic 6'10 260 32 2 Drummond 6'11 279 29 0 Sonogo 6'9 245 21 0

Keep in mind that the Bulls have to make a decision on contracts for DDR, PW and Drummond. There's a possibility that they won't have money for Drummond unless they pay the tax.

Then you have Lonzo coming back after 2.5 years of not playing competitive basketball. Will he be healthy? How much will he contribute?

The other injury concern is PW. Will he be fully healed or will it be an on and off thing? Was he able to train much in the off season? How much improvement did he make?

On top of that there's Zach. The team will most likely showcase him and then trade him at the deadline. That's a distraction (even though it's not Zach's fault). What will the team get for him? Who knows. Hopefully an asset.

If they just get rid of Lonzo they can bring back DDR, Will and Drummond....Easy....Peasy....Beautiful....Covergirl

haha!

Dan Z wrote:

Guru wrote:Team should make an easy jump forward

Will be adding whatever we trade Lavine for and a top 12 pick to
1 White 6'5 195 23 2 Carter 6'1 200 27 2
2 Caruso 6'5 186 29 1 Dosunmo 6'5 200 23 2 Terry 6'7 195 21 3
3 DeRozan 6'6 220 33 0 Bitim 6'6 215 24 0 Taylor 6'4 230 24 1
4 Williams 6'7 215 21 1 Craig 6'7 221 32 1 Phillips 6'8 198 20 3
5 Vucevic 6'10 260 32 2 Drummond 6'11 279 29 0 Sonogo 6'9 245 21 0

Keep in mind that the Bulls have to make a decision on contracts for DDR, PW and Drummond. There's a possibility that they won't have money for Drummond unless they pay the tax.

Then you have Lonzo coming back after 2.5 years of not playing competitive basketball. Will he be healthy? How much will he contribute?

The other injury concern is PW. Will he be fully healed or will it be an on and off thing? Was he able to train much in the off season? How much improvement did he make?

On top of that there's Zach. The team will most likely showcase him and then trade him at the deadline. That's a distraction (even though it's not Zach's fault). What will the team get for him? Who knows. Hopefully an asset.

It's hilarious that it will actually be financially difficult to keep this thoroughly mediocre team together.

The Lonzo thing is the real question mark. Him returning and being as good as he was seems quite unlikely, but would be a good outcome. Doing medical retirement is also an ok outcome in the scheme of things. The thing to fear is that he's physically able to play basketball, but is super diminished. Worst of both worlds.

Definitley against the direction many here want to take, but from a value perspective - what does the board thinking about an offeason trade with Portland for:

Chicago in: Jerami Grant

Portland in: Lonzo Ball, Jevon Carter, and PDX 1st back to Portland

Portland gets an expiring and cheap-ish guard depth while getting their own future first back. They also get off Grants long-term deal.

Bulls add a much needed starting level 4.

Zach and Caruso for Draymond Green and Chris Paul. I think it's realistic and I might like it.

League Circles wrote:Zach and Caruso for Draymond Green and Chris Paul. I think it's realistic and I might like it.

Paul and Green are 1 season from "done". I'd much rather keep Caruso and see if Zach can rebound next season and up his value (a lot).

League Circles wrote:Zach and Caruso for Draymond Green and Chris Paul. I think it's realistic and I might like it.

Then slap yourself until you see sense because that's awful.

sco wrote:

League Circles wrote:Zach and Caruso for Draymond Green and Chris Paul. I think it's realistic and I might like it.

Paul and Green are 1 season from "done". I'd much rather keep Caruso and see if Zach can rebound next season and up his value (a lot).

You're not wrong. The appeal for me was that Paul expires in a year, and Green might contribute for his next 3 years at not much more than half the cost of Zach. But really the positional rebalance. This gives Patrick and Ayo more of a chance on the perimeter and takes some pressure off Vuc and Demar. I think there are so many lineups with Coby, Demar and Draymond as a base with 2 from among Vuc, Patrick, Ayo and Paul.

Any love for someone like Jalen smith or Isiah Jackson from indy? Since siakam trade both have moved down the pecking order after Toppin.
Smith I think has a player option but just options for cheap PF with reasonably good shots for all aspects? With the way the guys have been playing of late it’s hard to say make a change but We all still know tho we need another player over 6’9! Depends who we get in the draft also. So many scenarios to play out going forward.
But enjoying the how things are going with current on court crew. Hate to say it tho ball will make us better even on a limited role.

League Circles wrote:

sco wrote:

League Circles wrote:Zach and Caruso for Draymond Green and Chris Paul. I think it's realistic and I might like it.

Paul and Green are 1 season from "done". I'd much rather keep Caruso and see if Zach can rebound next season and up his value (a lot).

You're not wrong. The appeal for me was that Paul expires in a year, and Green might contribute for his next 3 years at not much more than half the cost of Zach. But really the positional rebalance. This gives Patrick and Ayo more of a chance on the perimeter and takes some pressure off Vuc and Demar. I think there are so many lineups with Coby, Demar and Draymond as a base with 2 from among Vuc, Patrick, Ayo and Paul.

After watching GS, those 2 guys are pretty washed. I love AC, but if we are trading him, he has big value and I'd hate to see us not use that to bring back a long-term starting caliber piece of near-equal value (like say Kuminga, if such a thing were possible). Dumping Zach as a bad contract would make sense if somehow we could use that as part of a bigger strategy to free-up enough to bring back a max FA, but I don't think that math works for next season. Long-term, I'd much rather see if we can get at least a 1/2 season bounce-back from Zach before we trade him.

Not that I think Billy would ever do this, but a line-up of Coby, Zach, Demar, AC, Drummond could be really good.

erlim wrote:Anybody think we could pull off these trades in the summer for youth and strength? I think this would be an excellent new big three!

Someone else thinks the lavine for Simmons trade is a thing!
https://www.si.com/nba/bulls/news/heres-a-trade-idea-that-could-allow-the-chicago-bulls-to-offload-zach-lavine-this-offseason

erlim wrote:Anybody think we could pull off these trades in the summer for youth and strength? I think this would be an excellent new big three!

Rather try to trade DeMar and Jevon to the Pelicans for Zion if they can. DeMar would be good for a young team like the Pels who can afford to trade Zion because they have other forwards who can step up. Zion needs a change also.

The latest LaVine trades from wonderful web!

Which of these would you consider?

1. Pistons
Isaiah Stewart, Simon Fontecchio, Evan Fournier, Troy Brown Jr. and a future first-round pick. Stewart and Fontecchio can immediately come in to help Chicago’s frontline and wings. Evan Fournier has a $19 million team option next season, which the Bulls could decline to create more room. Brown is only partially guaranteed for $4 million giving Chicago even more cap flexibility.

2. Hornets
The Hornets could offer Seth Curry, Davis Bertans, Cody Martin and a future first-round pick.
The Chicago Bulls could use Seth Curry and Cody Martin as they are on team-friendly deals. They could also waive Davis Bertans and his $17 million salary for more cap room. Charlotte’s first-round pick will help them in their rebuild.

3. Spurs
The Spurs could send Devonte’ Graham, Julian Champagnie, Zach Collins, Charles Bassey and a first-round pick for the high-flying guard.

Graham has a partially non-guaranteed contract and could be used as a backup or eventually waived. Champagnie is also on a team-friendly contract and could also be part of Chicago’s reserves. Collins can come in and start depending on what the Bulls get for Nikola Vucevic and DeMar DeRozan. Again, a future first-round pick will help them in the rebuild.

4. Magic
Wendell Carter Jr., Jonathan Isaac, Joe Ingles and a first-round pick.

The Magic can shed the contracts of Isaac, Carter and Ingles for the future extensions of Paolo Banchero and Franz Wagner. They will still have plenty of cap space in the three years that LaVine will stay with the team.

The Chicago Bulls get perhaps their starting and backup center with Carter and Isaac. They can retain Ingles for veteran leadership and give him a bench role but can also waive him.

5. Hawks
Depending on what the Atlanta Hawks do with Dejounte Murray, a trade for Zach LaVine could be an option for them. The Hawks can send Clint Capela and De’Andre Hunter for Zach LaVine. They don’t even need to add a first-round pick to the equation.

Hunter, who has been upstaged by the emerging Jalen Johnson, will be Chicago’s new starting small forward while Capela will play center. The former is on a team-friendly contract while the latter has one more year in his deal.

prolific passer wrote:

erlim wrote:Anybody think we could pull off these trades in the summer for youth and strength? I think this would be an excellent new big three!

Rather try to trade DeMar and Jevon to the Pelicans for Zion if they can. DeMar would be good for a young team like the Pels who can afford to trade Zion because they have other forwards who can step up. Zion needs a change also.

Ayton, Poole, and Simmons are all some of the worst contracts this league has to offer. Unfortunately, Zach is at the moment, also. Trading bad for bad John Wall/Westbrook style may be our best bet, if the bad money player coming back at least solves a problem for us.

Jerami Grant was mentioned - at 30, he may not be on the right timeline for us. But he would solve some problems. Portland wouldn't want Lavine, in any event.

Donkedave wrote:The latest LaVine trades from wonderful web!

Which of these would you consider?

1. Pistons
Isaiah Stewart, Simon Fontecchio, Evan Fournier, Troy Brown Jr. and a future first-round pick. Stewart and Fontecchio can immediately come in to help Chicago’s frontline and wings. Evan Fournier has a $19 million team option next season, which the Bulls could decline to create more room. Brown is only partially guaranteed for $4 million giving Chicago even more cap flexibility.

2. Hornets
The Hornets could offer Seth Curry, Davis Bertans, Cody Martin and a future first-round pick.
The Chicago Bulls could use Seth Curry and Cody Martin as they are on team-friendly deals. They could also waive Davis Bertans and his $17 million salary for more cap room. Charlotte’s first-round pick will help them in their rebuild.

3. Spurs
The Spurs could send Devonte’ Graham, Julian Champagnie, Zach Collins, Charles Bassey and a first-round pick for the high-flying guard.

Graham has a partially non-guaranteed contract and could be used as a backup or eventually waived. Champagnie is also on a team-friendly contract and could also be part of Chicago’s reserves. Collins can come in and start depending on what the Bulls get for Nikola Vucevic and DeMar DeRozan. Again, a future first-round pick will help them in the rebuild.

4. Magic
Wendell Carter Jr., Jonathan Isaac, Joe Ingles and a first-round pick.

The Magic can shed the contracts of Isaac, Carter and Ingles for the future extensions of Paolo Banchero and Franz Wagner. They will still have plenty of cap space in the three years that LaVine will stay with the team.

The Chicago Bulls get perhaps their starting and backup center with Carter and Isaac. They can retain Ingles for veteran leadership and give him a bench role but can also waive him.

5. Hawks
Depending on what the Atlanta Hawks do with Dejounte Murray, a trade for Zach LaVine could be an option for them. The Hawks can send Clint Capela and De’Andre Hunter for Zach LaVine. They don’t even need to add a first-round pick to the equation.

Hunter, who has been upstaged by the emerging Jalen Johnson, will be Chicago’s new starting small forward while Capela will play center. The former is on a team-friendly contract while the latter has one more year in his deal.

I would absolutely consider all of those - given the dearth of options we have seen so far, some of them seem like fantasies.

The value of all of those are clearly almost entirely in the 1st round pick...1st rounder from Detroit, San Antonio, or Charlotte? Yes please. That has a non-zero chance of providing a player better than Lavine on a rookie deal. Jalen Williams was a #12 pick.

And this is why Lavine isn't traded, everybody in the NBA has said there's a consensus that the Bulls will not take future assets for Lavine, they want a playable player, right now. We're the problem here, not Lavine's value (at least until it was known he needed surgery).

I think whatever anybody thought that the Bulls ask for Lavine was could be changed by season end. Look at how Ayo has stepped up as a willing shooter and how he drives to the basket. Look at he and Coby, both signed team friendly deals going into next season as the starting guards. Now you can trade Zach for a somewhat distant unprotected pick even to someone who can put him into cap space.

With that Lavine cap space to spend. Imagine they get a decent S&T offer for DeRozan, a PF. Imagine they get a pick and a young player for Caruso. They either give Patrick the qualifying offer or sign him to a decent shorter deal. Vucevic is signed, maybe someone wants him bad enough to make an offer, maybe Drummond returns. Look at who is signed for the bench. Carter, Craig, Bitim, Phillips, Terry, even Javonte could be in the mix. Was that Lonzo Ball sprinting?

If GarPax did one thing it was maintain flexibility, it never worked out great using it but they had the room to move things around.

Donkedave wrote:

erlim wrote:Anybody think we could pull off these trades in the summer for youth and strength? I think this would be an excellent new big three!

Someone else thinks the lavine for Simmons trade is a thing!
https://www.si.com/nba/bulls/news/heres-a-trade-idea-that-could-allow-the-chicago-bulls-to-offload-zach-lavine-this-offseason

That trade on SI is Zach LaVine for Ben Simmons, a 2029 pick (Dallas unprotected) and two seconds.

If that's on the table I'd do it, but I'd want to tell Simmons to stay home until his contract expires. The problem is I'm not sure if they can do that and doubt ownership would sign off on it.

As for DDR for Poole...no thanks.