RealGM

Mostly swapping deck chairs, but Cheeks and Flemming both struck me as good assistants. That said, it's only based on reputation, who the hell knows what assistants are really doing, and assistants are usually well liked because they only help players and never deal with play time issues

I thought Fleming was a good coach, he did well in his short stint as HC that 1 time. Seemed well liked.

Let’s call it what it is: these guys are being scapegoated for a bad roster.

Muzbar wrote:I thought Fleming was a good coach, he did well in his short stint as HC that 1 time. Seemed well liked.

If I remember correctly, he went 5-0 during that stretch when BD had Covid.

HomoSapien wrote:Let’s call it what it is: these guys are being scapegoated for a bad roster.

I sort of feel the same way, but I will say to play devil's advocate, I don't think anyone is blaming the assistants in the front office or don't think anyone in the fan base will even notice. A bit different than the NFL in that sense. It feels to me like teams often swap out assistants pretty frequently, our guys may have actually had somewhat unusual longevity.

The good teams usually have their guys hired away for promotions (either regular assistant to lead assistant or lead assistant to head coach) and the bad teams often swap out guys to bring in ideas from other teams.

Bunch of real NBA expert pinheads on X posting how Billy should be the one fired. But I don't take the same snap judgement approach as some 14 year olds

I don't see it as Billy or the organization being that unhappy with two assistant coaches who were holding them back from the 10 wins AK is looking for.

Mo Cheeks is probably 70 years old I think he mainly wants to get off the road, stop jumping up off the folding chair 30 times a game. I could see him taking an out of the spotlight advisory role like Doug Collins. Fleming had a good win streak, something unheard of recently, during the pandemic games as HC, maybe he wants to throw his hat in the head coaching carousel. If Coby was a big backer, then he can learn the harsh cruel business the NBA is.

Chris Fleming has been here since Boylen, so he is very well liked by the org, I don't think any other Boylen personnel are still around. Usually new HC's bring in their own people, like Mo Cheeks.

Unfortunately this is about what I expected from when AK when he talked about making changes.

ChettheJet wrote:Bunch of real NBA expert pinheads on X posting how Billy should be the one fired. But I don't take the same snap judgement approach as some 14 year olds

I don't see it as Billy or the organization being that unhappy with two assistant coaches who were holding them back from the 10 wins AK is looking for.

Mo Cheeks is probably 70 years old I think he mainly wants to get off the road, stop jumping up off the folding chair 30 times a game. I could see him taking an out of the spotlight advisory role like Doug Collins. Fleming had a good win streak, something unheard of recently, during the pandemic games as HC, maybe he wants to throw his hat in the head coaching carousel. If Coby was a big backer, then he can learn the harsh cruel business the NBA is.

Yeah, the tweet basically said Cheeks may take a different role. Someone noted on twitter that he was on Bulls Talk earlier this year and talked about not wanting to keep being an assistant anymore.

Who knows about Flemming, may have been mutual, may have been time for a change, may have been either side choosing to end it, we just don't know.

Either way, at the presser, AK basically said this is all on him, no one is putting it on the assistants.

Ofcourse blame it all the on the assistant coaches instead of Billy himself.

We don’t know what kind of job these coaches were doing but since Billy is staying no matter what then might as well switch up the assistants.

It actually is an important role especially the right hand man main assistant. I want to see them hire someone who’s the opposite of Billy, someone who is tougher and actually yells at players or at least a known experienced coach.

HomoSapien wrote:

Muzbar wrote:I thought Fleming was a good coach, he did well in his short stint as HC that 1 time. Seemed well liked.

If I remember correctly, he went 5-0 during that stretch when BD had Covid.

If they had fired Billy in the beginning of the season as they were supposed to after a terrible start then Fleming would have had his chance to shine and prove if he’s worthy enough to be a head coach in the NBA.

Bravo Bilpy, Ive always said this team was 2 good assistant coaches away from righting the ship. greenfont

HomoSapien wrote:Let’s call it what it is: these guys are being scapegoated for a bad roster.

Yes. They are also being scapegoated for a bad head coach. It's always someone else's fault. Just ask Billy.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Whatever the case, thing's have felt EXTRA dysfunctional whenever the team's been fully healthy (sans Lonzo). That fundamentally makes no sense.

The start of this season was a top-down WTF (with literally everybody deserving blame, from Zach, to AK, to the head coach, to the assistant coaches, to wonderboys Coby/Ayo shooting like deer in headlights for 15 games, to good ole Vuc/Pat, to matador D-emar).

I feel like the entire Bulls franchise "owes us" season tickets to 2 years straight for not burning down the United Center after that Oct-Nov. horror show.

Anyway, I can't give examples, but I feel like Fleming has butted heads with Donovan's coaching over the years. They just don't seem to be on the same page.

dougthonus wrote:

ChettheJet wrote:Bunch of real NBA expert pinheads on X posting how Billy should be the one fired. But I don't take the same snap judgement approach as some 14 year olds

I don't see it as Billy or the organization being that unhappy with two assistant coaches who were holding them back from the 10 wins AK is looking for.

Mo Cheeks is probably 70 years old I think he mainly wants to get off the road, stop jumping up off the folding chair 30 times a game. I could see him taking an out of the spotlight advisory role like Doug Collins. Fleming had a good win streak, something unheard of recently, during the pandemic games as HC, maybe he wants to throw his hat in the head coaching carousel. If Coby was a big backer, then he can learn the harsh cruel business the NBA is.

Yeah, the tweet basically said Cheeks may take a different role. Someone noted on twitter that he was on Bulls Talk earlier this year and talked about not wanting to keep being an assistant anymore.

Who knows about Flemming, may have been mutual, may have been time for a change, may have been either side choosing to end it, we just don't know.

Either way, at the presser, AK basically said this is all on him, no one is putting it on the assistants.

Mo is indeed 67 and is probably ready to slow down. And I can't imagine being on the way to a likely rebuild is really that appealing to anyone.

Just wanted to point out that this has been in the air for awhile. KC reported this as a possibility back in November:

The odd part is: Typically in such circumstances, a coach may be on the hot seat or perhaps management could be in trouble. But with Jerry and Michael Reinsdorf’s history of employing Jerry Krause for 18 years and John Paxson for 17 until Paxson initiated his exit plan, not to mention Artūras Karnišovas’ contract extension, Karnišovas has been given the green light to try to fix the current mess.

Same goes for Billy Donovan, who is liked and respected by both ownership and management and also has multiple years left on his extension. While it has happened in recent situations like Fred Hoiberg and Jim Boylen, the Reinsdorfs typically don’t like paying coaches not to work for them. So Donovan is safe, although it wouldn’t be a surprise to see his staff tweaked moving forward.

It’s impossible from our seats to know whether the assistant staff was good or not, but I’m not sure how many people watched this team and thought “man, they just aren’t reaching their potential.”

There are two big things that stood out to most of this season:

1.) This roster is extremely flawed. That’s on AKME.

2.) Nikola Vucevic was given a significantly longer leash, often to the detriment of this team, than he deserved. That’s on Donovan.

HomoSapien wrote:Just wanted to point out that this has been in the air for awhile. KC reported this as a possibility back in November:

The odd part is: Typically in such circumstances, a coach may be on the hot seat or perhaps management could be in trouble. But with Jerry and Michael Reinsdorf’s history of employing Jerry Krause for 18 years and John Paxson for 17 until Paxson initiated his exit plan, not to mention Artūras Karnišovas’ contract extension, Karnišovas has been given the green light to try to fix the current mess.

Same goes for Billy Donovan, who is liked and respected by both ownership and management and also has multiple years left on his extension. While it has happened in recent situations like Fred Hoiberg and Jim Boylen, the Reinsdorfs typically don’t like paying coaches not to work for them. So Donovan is safe, although it wouldn’t be a surprise to see his staff tweaked moving forward.

It’s impossible from our seats to know whether the assistant staff was good or not, but I’m not sure how many people watched this team and thought “man, they just aren’t reaching their potential.”

There are two big things that stood out to most of this season:

1.) This roster is extremely flawed. That’s on AKME.

2.) Nikola Vucevic was given a significantly longer leash, often to the detriment of this team, than he deserved. That’s on Donovan.

Worth noting KC reported today that Cheeks was the decision maker on his move, and linked to a podcast where Cheeks talked about wanting to step back earlier in the season. Who knows who the decision making was on Flemming, but moving one assistant shouldn't viewed as blame.

AK said in his presser very distinctly that this was on him not providing enough talent and not on the coaching staff. He wore the target very loudly and intentionally multiple times. The Bulls can want to swap out one assistant and have another one retire without anyone having to think they are scapegoating the assistants, that's a narrative that fans are creatiing.

I mean it was my gut reaction too just because of the timing of the news, but when you sit back and think about it a bit that's just not what is happening.

Shuffling assistant coaches may not be the change we asked for, but it’s the change we need. AK is wasting no time making good on his promise of creative and aggressive offseason changes.

I'd rather our assistants get fired than not. So I'm OK with it.

Bring in an offensive coordinator.

DuckIII wrote:Shuffling assistant coaches may not be the change we asked for, but it’s the change we need. AK is wasting no time making good on his promise of creative and aggressive offseason changes.

Oh, you wicked man.

I liked Fleming and Cheeks.