Prospects and trade discussion

Post #161 » by **Ruzious** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:02 pm

Braves fan here - confused by the 3-way trade. I was more confused with giving up Wood than Paraza. Paraza is good - but a bit overrated, imo, while Wood is a very good young lefty - a bulldog who's very consistent. But why did LA not keep Olivera - when 3rd base is a weak spot for them?

Did the Dodgers sign Olivera with the intent to trade him? It certainly seems that way. Atlanta wanted him because LA's picking up about half the tab. On one hand, that's pretty damn clever of the Dodgers. Otoh... that can't be good for baseball.

Quake Griffin · Post #162 » by **Quake Griffin** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:30 pm

Ruzious wrote:Braves fan here - confused by the 3-way trade. I was more confused with giving up Wood than Paraza. Paraza is good - but a bit overrated, imo, while Wood is a very good young lefty - a bulldog who's very consistent. But why did LA not keep Olivera - when 3rd base is a weak spot for them?

Did the Dodgers sign Olivera with the intent to trade him? It certainly seems that way. Atlanta wanted him because LA's picking up about half the tab. On one hand, that's pretty damn clever of the Dodgers. Otoh... that can't be good for baseball.

Justin Turner is tearing the cover off of the ball btw and his metrics at 3rd, although a small sample size, are fine.

Looks like Corey Seager has always been in our plans at 3B and I doubt Olivera would have blocked him from being there eventually. What's odd is that he worked out at 2B for us and everyone knows Howie Kendrick will be an FA this offseason.

It's possible that what your proposing may be why we're so in on nearly every int'l prospect. We literally tried to sign every name of the top 4 or 5 names at the int'l deadline this year. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

and I think we rocked it in this deal.
I'm not sure what the Braves strategy is. But hey, you fleeced Arizona for Toussaint…so hey…that's baseball.

Post #163 » by **Ruzious** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:41 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Braves fan here - confused by the 3-way trade. I was more confused with giving up Wood than Paraza. Paraza is good - but a bit overrated, imo, while Wood is a very good young lefty - a bulldog who's very consistent. But why did LA not keep Olivera - when 3rd base is a weak spot for them?

Did the Dodgers sign Olivera with the intent to trade him? It certainly seems that way. Atlanta wanted him because LA's picking up about half the tab. On one hand, that's pretty damn clever of the Dodgers. Otoh... that can't be good for baseball.

Justin Turner is tearing the cover off of the ball btw and his metrics at 3rd, although a small sample size, are fine.

Looks like Corey Seager has always been in our plans at 3B and I doubt Olivera would have blocked him from being there eventually. What's odd is that he worked out at 2B for us and everyone knows Howie Kendrick will be an FA this offseason.

It's possible that what your proposing may be why we're so in on nearly every int'l prospect. We literally tried to sign every name of the top 4 or 5 names at the int'l deadline this year. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

and I think we rocked it in this deal.
I'm not sure what the Braves strategy is. But hey, you fleeced Arizona for Toussaint…so hey…that's baseball.

Turner had to make a deal with the devil. 8-)

I remember him when he was in the O's organization, and nobody ever gave him a second thought as a legit prospect. Seriously, he must have worked his arse off to make it this far - good for him.

So... how does Puig for Teheran sound? Atlanta NEEDS a corner OFer with pop.

Neddy · Post #164 » by **Neddy** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:38 am

Quake Griffin wrote:what are we going to do with Morse anyway? We have a 1B. SVS can back up A-Gon.

there's a log jam in the outfield.
whats he here for?

eating his 16 mil salary is the reason why they gave us Latos and compensation pick. kinda like when Doc gave away our pick to trade out Dudley. Morse is already sent down to AAA.

Quake Griffin · Post #165 » by **Quake Griffin** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:44 am

Neddy wrote:
Quake Griffin wrote:what are we going to do with Morse anyway? We have a 1B. SVS can back up A-Gon.

there's a log jam in the outfield.
whats he here for?

eating his 16 mil salary is the reason why they gave us Latos and compensation pick. kinda like when Doc gave away our pick to trade out Dudley. Morse is already sent down to AAA.

am i losing my mind? srs

Ive looked at this deal over and over, I don't see anything about us getting a pick.
can you link me to a site that shows us getting a pick.

I want to be leaf.

Quake Griffin · Post #166 » by **Quake Griffin** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:45 am

Ruzious wrote:
Quake Griffin wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Braves fan here - confused by the 3-way trade. I was more confused with giving up Wood than Paraza. Paraza is good - but a bit overrated, imo, while Wood is a very good young lefty - a bulldog who's very consistent. But why did LA not keep Olivera - when 3rd base is a weak spot for them?

Did the Dodgers sign Olivera with the intent to trade him? It certainly seems that way. Atlanta wanted him because LA's picking up about half the tab. On one hand, that's pretty damn clever of the Dodgers. Otoh... that can't be good for baseball.

Justin Turner is tearing the cover off of the ball btw and his metrics at 3rd, although a small sample size, are fine.

Looks like Corey Seager has always been in our plans at 3B and I doubt Olivera would have blocked him from being there eventually. What's odd is that he worked out at 2B for us and everyone knows Howie Kendrick will be an FA this offseason.

It's possible that what your proposing may be why we're so in on nearly every int'l prospect. We literally tried to sign every name of the top 4 or 5 names at the int'l deadline this year. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

and I think we rocked it in this deal.
I'm not sure what the Braves strategy is. But hey, you fleeced Arizona for Toussaint…so hey…that's baseball.

Turner had to make a deal with the devil. I remember him when he was in the O's organization, and nobody ever gave him a second thought as a legit prospect. Seriously, he must have worked his arse off to make it this far - good for him.

So... how does Puig for Teheran sound? Atlanta NEEDS a corner OFer with pop.

no dice.

nice try

Neddy · Post #167 » by **Neddy** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:14 am

Quake Griffin wrote:
Neddy wrote:
Quake Griffin wrote:what are we going to do with Morse anyway? We have a 1B. SVS can back up A-Gon.

there's a log jam in the outfield.
whats he here for?

eating his 16 mil salary is the reason why they gave us Latos and compensation pick. kinda like when Doc gave away our pick to trade out Dudley. Morse is already sent down to AAA.

am i losing my mind? srs

Ive looked at this deal over and over, I don't see anything about us getting a pick.
can you link me to a site that shows us getting a pick.

I want to be leaf.

cause that pick is already gone to Atlanta along with Olivera

Neddy · Post #168 » by **Neddy** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:17 am

btw this move tells me that we will probably keep Kendrick on second next season. Seager is replacing Rollins and Turner will be on 3rd. Guerrero and a defensive middle infielder/utility will round out our IF unit with of course Gonzo leading the way.

Ranma · Post #169 » by **Ranma** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:19 am

Quake Griffin wrote:
Neddy wrote:eating his 16 mil salary is the reason why they gave us Latos and compensation pick. kinda like when Doc gave away our pick to trade out Dudley. Morse is already sent down to AAA.

am i losing my mind? srs

Ive looked at this deal over and over, I don't see anything about us getting a pick.
can you link me to a site that shows us getting a pick.

I want to be leaf.

The confusion comes from the fact that, technically, the Marlins' compensatory pick can only be traded once and that Friedman and Zaidi worked two separate angles with different rival ballclubs that culminated in the 3-way trade. Here is how I think the sequence of events generally played out:

- Friedman (or Zaidi...or whomever) agreed to parameters of deal with Miami where the Dodgers initially acquired the Marlins' compensatory pick in Latos-Peraza trade.

- Zaidi (or Friedman...or whomever) agreed to parameters of deal with Atlanta in Olivera trade, which likely included another Dodgers' prospect instead of Marlins' compensatory pick because Zaidi probably was unaware that Miami deal was completed.

- Zaidi informs Friedman that he finished his deal and they work out final details to combine both deals into 3-way trade.

- Zaidi calls back Atlanta to renegotiate terms of deal in order to replace Dodgers' prospect initially included in Olivera trade with Marlins' compensatory pick instead.

- Friedman holds up official paperwork on Latos-Peraza trade with Miami (which explains media reports of trade "falling apart") in order to forward Marlins' compensatory pick to Atlanta in lieu of Dodgers' prospect initially included in Olivera trade.

- Dodgers, Marlins, and Braves conference in on trade call with MLB offices to confirm 3-way trade and declare that Marlins' compensatory pick goes directly to Atlanta (instead of Dodgers).

Steve Dilbeck, Los Angeles Times (7/30/15)

The Dodgers sent Cuban Hector Olivera, who they signed to a $62.5-million deal in May, left-handed reliever Paco Rodriguez and minor-league pitcher Zach Bird to the Braves. The Marlins got minor league right-handers Victor Araujo, Jeff Brigham and Kevin Guzman, all second-tier Dodgers prospects. The Braves received a competitive first-round draft pick from Miami.

That’s right, the Dodgers received cash and not the draft pick.

It's Official: Dodgers Rebuild Rotation with 13-Player Trade

Ranma · Post #170 » by **Ranma** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:53 am

Neddy wrote:our opinions on DePo may stay opposite but I do agree wholesomely that Dan Evans and Kim Ng got a raw deal. especially for Kim, I had a very high opinion of her and the possibility of her becoming the first female baseball top executive appeared to me was the right dodger way, as the franchise to introduce Jackie Robinson, Hideo Nomo, and Chan Ho Park. too bad that never happened and my faith in her never wavered.

also I have to say although my opinion of him has declined over the years, losing Logan White was painful at first.

I'm with you in rooting for Ng. In fact, I actually hoped the Dodgers would give her the GM job to replace Ned and possibly re-unite with Evans in a role reversal...that is, before we struck gold with Friedman, Zaidi, et al, of course.

We are so fortunate to have the front office that we have right now and, apparently, Colletti still can't help being himself. See below.

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Ned Colletti starring in...

Ranma · Post #171 » by **Ranma** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:31 am

I heard the Dodgers were not willing to include newly acquired Alex Wood in the deal for David Price, which I'm fine with. I didn't like giving up Andrew Heaney, who was ranked 18th overall in the 2014 MLB.com Top 100 Prospects, for Howie Kendrick, but getting Wood seems to be of similar value. Plus, Jose Peraza has similar characteristics to Dee Gordon, who we've missed tremendously atop our batting order.

Had we not traded away Heaney, the Dodgers would have likely had 6 of the top 70 prospects in all of baseball. We might even have more on the way with Yadier Alvarez already in the fold and possibly Eddy Julio Martinez lined up as well. Not to mention recent first-round draftee Walker Buehler, who is currently in need of Tommy John surgery.

Corey Seager 2nd overall in 2015 MLB.com Top 100 Prospects
Julio Urias 5th overall in 2015 MLB.com Top 100 Prospects
Andrew Heaney 18th overall in 2014 MLB.com Top 100 Prospects
Jose De Leon 29th overall in 2015 MLB.com Top 100 Prospects
Jose Peraza 30th overall in 2015 MLB.com Top 100 Prospects
Grant Holmes 67th overall in 2015 MLB.com Top 100 Prospects

This doesn't even include Wood, who--like I said--seems to provide similar value to Heaney. Heck, he's been putting up similar numbers to Cole Hamels and David Price.

Jon Weisman, Dodger Insider (7/30/15)

Most believe the top prize of the deal is the 24-year-old Wood, who has a 3.10 career ERA (3.17 fielding-independent ERA) in 368 2/3 innings. As Dave Cameron wrote at Fangraphs, Wood’s totals since 2013 compare promisingly to those of David Price and Cole Hamels.

“Certainly, he doesn’t have the track record of either of the two multiple-time All-Stars,” Cameron writes, “and his combination of a painful-looking delivery, a decrease in velocity, and a drop in strikeout rate make him a significantly more risky asset than the established stars, but clearly, the upside for him to pitch at a high level is there. He’s done it for roughly the equivalent of two full seasons, after all.”

Moving Day Brings Major Additions to Dodgers

In any case, I'm fine with standing pat right now, but I'm not going to complain if the Dodgers pursue and acquire Tyson Ross from San Diego even with his prior history with Yasmani Grandal. Yovani Gallardo, on the other hand, is no longer needed so I hope the talk of the Dodgers' continued interest is outdated.

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Matt Calkins, San Diego Union-Tribune (7/11/15)

Of course, it may have gone beyond mere strategical disagreements. Grandal served a 50-game PED suspension in 2013, which, according to reports he would get, cost him much of the Padres' clubhouse.

He stayed positive, though. After last season, Grandal texted Cashner, Ross, Kennedy, Odrisamer Despaigne and Yangervis Solarte among others to see how he could improve his relationship with his teammates.Only Ross responded.
...

San Diego's pitching, however, has disappointed, and Grandal can't help but wonder if that would be the case had his advice been heeded.

It wasn't, though. Didn't seem anybody wanted to hear what he had to say.

And now, one year later, Grandal's new team isn't hearing the Padres' footsteps.

Padres Blew It with Yasmani Grandal

Ranma · Post #172 » by **Ranma** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:05 am

Given the prices paid for Hamels, Cueto, and Price, I'm glad the Dodgers didn't make a trade for any of them. While Detroit received Daniel Norris, who is recognized as the top rated prospect included among the trade packages for the star pitchers, Philadelphia and Cincinnati each seemed to get a better overall haul of prospects from their respective deals. Norris may be ranked higher than any Dodger prospect not named Seager or Urias, but Jose's De Leon and Peraza are not far behind him, if at all.

Even if we missed out on the big-name starting pitchers on the trade market, the Dodgers still have the two best pitchers in baseball in Clayton Kershaw and Zack Greinke. Most playoff teams would have trouble matching either one, nevermind both. Plus, with Greinke's social anxiety disorder and his growing comfort with his current environment, the Dodgers have as good a chance as anyone to bring him back if they want to. Plus, neither Price or Cueto are anticipated to stay in Toronto and Kansas City, respectively, beyond this postseason and it is anticipated that the Cubs and Dodgers have the inside track in the race for Price.

Given that, you'd have to think the Dodgers have a pretty good chance to sign two out of the three of Price, Cueto, and Greinke this offseason to go along with Kershaw for next season. And we would still have practically all of our top prospects and draft picks. We're in dang good shape to compete now and for years to come.

Ranma · Post #173 » by **Ranma** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:15 am

Neddy wrote:btw this move tells me that we will probably keep Kendrick on second next season. Seager is replacing Rollins and Turner will be on 3rd. Guerrero and a defensive middle infielder/utility will round out our IF unit with of course Gonzo leading the way.

The cool thing about Jose Peraza is that he was initially a shortstop but moved over to second base in favor of Andrelton Simmons for the Braves. He reportedly can also play in center field. The Dodgers will most assuredly tender a qualifying offer to Howie Kendrick, but whether he stays or not, Peraza provides us with options at 2B and SS. Even if Turner struggles, Seager obviously can move over to third base with Peraza taking over SS.

Ranma · Post #174 » by **Ranma** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:38 am

Ruzious wrote:Braves fan here - confused by the 3-way trade. I was more confused with giving up Wood than Paraza. Paraza is good - but a bit overrated, imo, while Wood is a very good young lefty - a bulldog who's very consistent. But why did LA not keep Olivera - when 3rd base is a weak spot for them?

Did the Dodgers sign Olivera with the intent to trade him? It certainly seems that way. Atlanta wanted him because LA's picking up about half the tab. On one hand, that's pretty damn clever of the Dodgers. Otoh... that can't be good for baseball.

I'm actually optimistic about Jose Peraza; I personally like him more than Alex Wood even though Wood is considered the better prospect. He has a legitimate chance to provide us with a lot of what we lost after dealing away Dee Gordon.

As Quake Griffin said, Justin Turner's emergence created a logjam at third base with Alex Guerrero, Juan Uribe / Alberto Callaspo, and Hector Olivera. Not to mention Corey Seager's anticipated eventual move over to the hot corner once he is called up to the bigs. I was a fan of the Olivera signing for the Dodgers, but as a 30-year-old, his value to the team was his polish at the plate and ability to play 3B and 2B in the short term. With his re-aggravated hamstring injury slowing his progress on top of his visa issues delaying his initial arrival to the States, Turner made the most of his time in spring training and the big leagues to secure the job at 3B before suffering a (hopefully) minor leg infection recently. This is also on top of reports of previously dealing with thrombosis in his left arm, rumors of arthritic hips, and the confirmation of a slight tear of the UCL in his right elbow, which necessitated adding an option for an additional year to is contract should he need surgery for it.

Despite Olivera feeling more natural at 2B, now the organization has doubts on whether he can actually handle that position, so he's basically locked into 3B. We may end up missing his production with the bat in the coming years, but I admire our organization's ability to quickly pivot in getting a more needed return on our investment in Hector Olivera.

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Also, with Olivera's departure, this provides more incentive for the Dodgers to pursue the Gourriel brothers from Cuba should they be available in the current international signing period.

Ranma · Post #175 » by **Ranma** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:28 am

I've advocated recently for dealing with the Reds in order to trade for both Johnny Cueto and Aroldis Chapman, but given our current circumstances along with Cueto already a Royal and the expensive price to be paid for Chapman, I'd bow out of the pursuit for Chapman right now. However, I really like the suggestion cited below of pursuing Jake McGee from Tampa Bay to further bolster our bullpen.

I wouldn't give up any of our prospects ranked in the MLB.com Top 100 Prospects, but I'd love to have McGee to go along with Jim Johnson, Yimi Garcia, and Kenley Jansen. If we don't get him by the trade deadline, I'd pursue him in the offseason. However, I share the front office's disdain and reluctance to pay too much for relief pitchers.

Anthony Castrovince, MLB.com (7/30/15)

Jake McGee (Rays) to the Dodgers
Aroldis Chapman is more of a household name, and the Dodgers have been linked to him in this Deadline season. But with McGee's arbitration costs rising for the Rays, here's a chance for Andrew Friedman to reunite with McGee and give Los Angeles a dynamic right-left tandem of Kenley Jansen and McGee in the back end of the bullpen. Over the past two years, McGee has a 0.865 WHIP and a 1.78 ERA in 96 innings.

Though a lot of people wanted or outright expected the Dodgers to land Price on Thursday, they have already meaningfully addressed their rotation behind Clayton Kershaw and Zack Greinke with Mat Latos and Alex Wood. Now, it's time to turn the attention to the 'pen.

Deadline Countdown: Last-Minute Predictions

Quake Griffin · Post #176 » by **Quake Griffin** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:09 pm

man.

it seems like we're so far away from trying to deal Crawford and Ethier because their contracts are too much….even though we were shopping Crawford.
It looks like money truly IS NOT an issue with this team.

I love so much how, as fans, we're contemplating deals in our head and struggling with the concept of who we can acquire without sacrificing our future and this FO comes through with SP, 2 quality relievers…….and a top 30 prospect

and we've kept Seager, Urias, DeLeon, Holmes etc. etc.

I love that we're good now and we have one of the brightest futures in baseball. It's literally right up there with Chicago and Houston's future.
I love the odds took. You keep a team that stays in the playoffs ever year and your bound to get hot one year and give your city a parade.

Neddy · Post #177 » by **Neddy** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:30 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:man.

it seems like we're so far away from trying to deal Crawford and Ethier because their contracts are too much….even though we were shopping Crawford.
It looks like money truly IS NOT an issue with this team.

I love so much how, as fans, we're contemplating deals in our head and struggling with the concept of who we can acquire without sacrificing our future and this FO comes through with SP, 2 quality relievers…….and a top 30 prospect

and we've kept Seager, Urias, DeLeon, Holmes etc. etc.

I love that we're good now and we have one of the brightest futures in baseball. It's literally right up there with Chicago and Houston's future.
I love the odds took. You keep a team that stays in the playoffs ever year and your bound to get hot one year and give your city a parade.

Andrew Freidman + Farahn Zaidi + Josh Byrnes = best in business. >>> Branch Rickey >> depo > Logan White > KIm Ng ( if she was given the chance) > Dan Evans >>>>> Fred Clair >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tommy Larsoda (as a GM only)>>>>>>>>>>>> Ned Colletti.

Ranma · Post #178 » by **Ranma** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:25 pm

What the heck?! The Dodgers are discussing a deal with the Cubs? I wonder who the target is? Still not a fan of Yovani Gallardo's, but Carlos Carrasco is interesting. Cubs were reportedly involved in 3-way discussion with Padres and Red Sox earlier, so maybe Dodgers are trying to get involved for Tyson Ross. Still, without knowing the targeted player in Chicago, I'd rather we focus on acquiring Jake McGee from Tampa Bay.

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Quake Griffin · Post #179 » by **Quake Griffin** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:34 pm

seems like Alex Wood is a pretty good pitcher.

Friedman talked him up yesterday saying there's another level he can reach (or something like that).
Why would we be dealing him?

I had a thought that we'd be acquiring the assets to make a big surprise splash….but the Cubs don't have anything that gives me a boner.

Ranma · Post #180 » by **Ranma** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:37 pm

Rosenthal backtracks from confirmation of Wood-to-Cubs report and says that Wood was actually not discussed with Cubs, but that Indians inquired about him for bigger deal presumably involving Carrasco. Carrasco deal looks unlikely at the moment. Also, seems like Friedman not shopping him, after all, with other teams checking in on his availability.

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