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a quick survey of our 2B problem

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who do you rather have on the second base?

Poll ended at Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:20 am

1. trade for Dozier, while giving up De Leon, and most likely Willie Calhoun and Brock Stewart.
0
No votes
2. sign Utley back, and platoon him with Kike.
1
20%
3. do not trade for Dozier or sign Utley, start Kike and see how soon Willie can be ready
2
40%
4. start Willie now.
0
No votes
5. make a deal to bring in Ian Kinsler. granted the extension does not exceed 3 years from today.
0
No votes
6. none of the above. if you choose this, please explain.
2
40%
 
Total votes: 5

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a quick survey of our 2B problem 

Post#1 » by Neddy » Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:20 am

made a poll and would like to hear from you all. which is like 4 people, lol but want your input on this.
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Yangervis Solarte 

Post#2 » by Ranma » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:28 am

With the priority to capitalize on Kershaw's prime with the return of Hill, Jansen, and Turner, I see the argument to address our 2B hole with Dozier. While I'm wary of paying the price it would take to get him out of Minnesota, I understand why he'd be the front office's 1st choice. His inclination to pull actually plays well in Dodger Stadium with the shorter gates (instead of walls) in the corner outfield spots. I doubt he hits 40 homers again, but he at least says that realizing that taking what the game gives him makes him more effective in going the other way. He's an efficient, if not prolific, basestealer to go along with decent keystone defense, so he'd likely be the leadoff hitter for the Dodgers' lineup.

Still, I'm leery of his low batting average despite his power numbers and on-base percentage helped by walk-rate. I've also said before how I view 2B as a low priority overall, but given the circumstances, it is the obvious position to upgrade to hopefully address our weakness against left-handed pitching as well as impotent timely hitting.

I believe Quake suggested Yangervis Solarte as a target to pursue for 2B and I have to agree in favoring him as the preferred player to trade for given the respective cost difference between acquiring both players. Solarte has less speed and defensive certainty than Dozier but Dozier isn't exactly a demon on the basepaths nor is he a Gold Glover while Solarte could be serviceable in both areas. However, Solarte is unlikely to be a legit candidate for the leadoff spot.

I'd like to leverage our pursuit of Solarte against our dealing for Dozier but Minnesota reportedly has other interested parties involved. Still, I'd prefer to package Verdugo and Calhoun over giving up De Leon for him and I don't view De Leon as ever being more than a 3rd starter for us at the moment. Still, De Leon has a decent shot of developing into an ace for the Twins' rotation, so I'm opposed to giving up such talent for 2 years of Dozier before he becomes a free agent.

I also like Neddy's suggestion to have the Twins include Jorge Polanco in the trade package.
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Re: a quick survey of our 2B problem 

Post#3 » by Neddy » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:53 pm

Yangervis Solarte is a solid option, he played very well last season and wasn't he the one who's wife passed away due to cancer? maybe coming over to LA would be a good way to get a new start in life too.

baseball wise, his split does not show any deviation from LHP to RHP. he is also a very capable 3rd baseman so he can give rest to Turner when needed. but in the end, I want to give a chance to an in-house option who can mash LHP.

I like Kike and his make up. he hit very poorly last season between his mental issues of his father's illness and more likely, the physical state of not hitting every day causing loss of routine for a still very young 25 year old. he never seem to complain about his utility role, but his major league career started when he got called up by Houston, then traded to Miami in 2014. he had 121 at bats total between two clubs but he also had 416 plate appearance in the minors that year. Kike, as any other position player prospects, are used to hitting 400 to 500 ABs a season. come 2015, he had 202 at bats in the majors, and just 59 to suppliment at AAA. he still hit .307 that year in the bigs. come 2016, to repeat the second year as a part time player, he nosedived to .190 BA with another 200 plus at bats. he was 24 years old. he just turned 25. a kid that young, cannot keep up with his usual performance unless he is given the at bats. I really believe given 400 to 500 at bats a season, he will get into a routine and rhythm, will hit somewhere around .260/.320/.420 with 15 to 20 HRs. he will get to .270/.810 OPS level against LHP minimal, and probably better as long as he is given a regular's at bats through out the season.

I also prefer not to resign Utley with this particular scenario because by nature, if Kike and Utley were to platoon, it will reduce Kike to a part time player once again, and being a RHB, he will get much less starts over LHB Utley. I want to give Kike a full time job to prove himself. I have a little doubt he can be an above average 2B both offensively and defensively, even if he is above it just by a hair.

having said all that, I wonder if Utley would be willing to join the team as a coach right now.
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Re: a quick survey of our 2B problem 

Post#4 » by Neddy » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:54 pm

I always have newly forming and at times contradictory ideas that I post, so please excuse me on that.
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Re: a quick survey of our 2B problem 

Post#5 » by Neddy » Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:40 am

one thing to consider about Solerte, is that last season was the only season he posted a slightly better than league average defense. all of his other major league service years were negative. on the other hand, Kike has always been on the positive side, and never played worse than Solerte's best season.
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Re: a quick survey of our 2B problem 

Post#6 » by Kilroy » Thu Jan 5, 2017 5:17 pm

Neddy wrote:I always have newly forming and at times contradictory ideas that I post, so please excuse me on that.


You and me both... I don't even try to coherently predict the outcome of these things anymore. I think the ideas that pop up are more interesting in most ways....
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Re: a quick survey of our 2B problem 

Post#7 » by Quake Griffin » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:35 pm

I like Yangervis. Versatile switch bat that can play multiple positions. I AM really interested in having a better/ more reliable glove at 2nd base. One thing I am not sure about is how to account for our shifts with a player's range/ defensive metrics?

For example, if a player like Logan Forsythe has a negative UZR, would having a UZR slightly below 0 in our shifts still produce good outcomes over the course of 162 games for our ball club?


Personally, I'd like to stand pat at this point. No Utley. No Kinsler. No Dozier. Give Kike the reps and let him compete with Barnes. Invite Willie to ST and let him show what he has. Why? I'm not in love with any of the options we have and I'd rather go through our internal options and wait for someone I like to be available at the deadline than get into a bad deal just to scratch our itch during the winter.

My guess is by the deadline Kinsler, Forsythe, and Dozier will all still be available if needed.
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Re: a quick survey of our 2B problem 

Post#8 » by Neddy » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:37 am

I like the Bobby Wilson signing for the potential of Barnes on 2nd base. he can actually even play platoon with Kike although both are right handed, as Austin has shown ( although inconsistent at times season to season) a propensity to be able to hit better against RHP than LHP. I think if needed, Austin can actually be our everyday 2nd baseman. it wouldnt' be bad at all if we can carry 3 catchers as our primary back up C is also our every day 2nd base.
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Re: a quick survey of our 2B problem 

Post#9 » by Quake Griffin » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:18 pm

Neddy wrote:I like the Bobby Wilson signing for the potential of Barnes on 2nd base. he can actually even play platoon with Kike although both are right handed, as Austin has shown ( although inconsistent at times season to season) a propensity to be able to hit better against RHP than LHP. I think if needed, Austin can actually be our everyday 2nd baseman. it wouldnt' be bad at all if we can carry 3 catchers as our primary back up C is also our every day 2nd base.

Yes.

and I'm sick of him getting a cup of coffee, not hitting after 5-10 ABs, then going back to AAA to kill it.

Consistent ABs looking at ML pitching please.
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Trading with the Enemy? 

Post#10 » by Ranma » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:24 am

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Re: a quick survey of our 2B problem 

Post#11 » by Quake Griffin » Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:38 pm

I've never been impressed with Javy as a hitter and I still am not impressed with him as a hitter.

He made some impressive plays and Joe Buck would not let ANYBODY forget that he made them but for me, the upside is the youth and the glove. He's going to frustrate the hell out of Dodger fans wit his .314 OB and 24% K rate if he comes here.
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Re: a quick survey of our 2B problem 

Post#12 » by Quake Griffin » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:03 pm

So now we're in on Jurickson Profar?

If we can rebump the offseason thread, it's pretty much just me going through EVERY option we should look into besides Logan Forsythe. Profar being no exception.

He has a significant injury history, so he worries me but I think Profar's upside is worth checking into.
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Re: a quick survey of our 2B problem 

Post#13 » by Neddy » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:39 am

I was all for Profar in another thread just a few hours ago, but the more I think about it, we maybe better off hanging on to our prospects until the trade deadline and run Kike out there. Kike hasn't had consistent at bat for a few years now, given enough at bat, he can surely hit the lefties for sure. if he is our 8th batter against RHP while being a good defensive infielder, and he can crush some LHP, what else do we really need from the 2B? we already have a stacked lineup and an overstocked rotation.
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Keystone Thoughts 

Post#14 » by Ranma » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:36 pm

I read somewhere that Ian Kinsler made statements saying that he didn't think his exercising of his no-trade option would actually prevent a trade from happening and that it's a little awkward returning to a team that was trying to trade him. In any case and as noted by various media outlets, it's unlikely that the Tigers will deal him now, anyway, given that their anticipated fire sale never came to fruition, so they are more inclined to compete in 2017.

While I'm interested in Jurickson Profar, he's not worth what the Rangers are asking for. I wouldn't give up Jose De Leon for Kinsler, so nevermind Profar. Rosenthal is reporting that the Dodgers are casting a wider net in our search for a second baseman, but if that's the case, I'd rather just stick with our in-house options than trade away prospects for subpar 2B options.

Logan Forsythe might be an acceptable option, but I'm not really interested in giving up any of our prospects for him, to be honest. Wille Calhoun? Maybe. Alex Verdugo? No, and I'm not really high on him as a long-term Dodger.

The proposal for Javier Baez intrigues me, but as Quake cited, he's a questionable batter despite his power potential, defense, and youth.


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Re: a quick survey of our 2B problem 

Post#15 » by Quake Griffin » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:03 am

:nonono: :nonono: :nonono: :nonono: :nonono:
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Re: a quick survey of our 2B problem 

Post#16 » by Quake Griffin » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:15 am

DeLeon out.
Forsythe in.

I figured we were not as big on DeLeon the rankings had him given the proposals we had been hearing aka I wouldnt give up an elite arm for Dozier or Forsythe.

Why I like the deal:
Right handed bat.
Good splits against lefties.
Pop.
Seems to be trending up as a hitter from earlier in his career.
OBP where I like it.

What I don't like:
- I think DeLeon has potential to be more than an average 3 or 4 starter. I dont trust the bad press he's gotten in 2016 that swears he can't be more than that abd the fangraphs article about him backs me up somewhat.

- what exactly would be wrong about having a solid #3 or 4 throwing 165-180 innings while Kershaw and Urias carry the load?


DeLeon pls don't turn into Pedro.


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Re: a quick survey of our 2B problem 

Post#17 » by Neddy » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:59 pm

I can't believe none of us even brought up about Taylor.

and Zach Lee is in Padres organization, currently playing in their AAA team.
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Re: a quick survey of our 2B problem 

Post#18 » by Quake Griffin » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:47 pm

Had no idea he'd do this.

Should have shown him more respect based on his AAA numbers.


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Talking Taylor 

Post#19 » by Ranma » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:30 pm

I liked Taylor as a super-utility player because I loved his arm, speed, and defense. I think I liked him better than Kike at the time given Kike's struggles, especially on defense, but I didn't think Taylor's bat would improve enough to warrant serious consideration to be honest. However, I did include him among the options for 2B (at least I did in my mind) when considering to trade for external options, but the leading candidates were Barnes and Kike with Barnes my personal favorite for the position.
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Re: Talking Taylor 

Post#20 » by Neddy » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:37 pm

Ranma wrote:I liked Taylor as a super-utility player because I loved his arm, speed, and defense. I think I liked him better than Kike at the time given Kike's struggles, especially on defense, but I didn't think Taylor's bat would improve enough to warrant serious consideration to be honest. However, I did include him among the options for 2B (at least I did in my mind) when considering to trade for external options, but the leading candidates were Barnes and Kike with Barnes my personal favorite for the position.


I am ashamed to admit that I watched him rather close, being in Mariners home territory and getting many of the games he played in, and did not see his potential to be what he has matured into. I thought the Mariners did rush him out there and he was underachieving, thought getting him for Zach Lee was a lopsided steal for us, but did not foresee what he has become.
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