johnnyballgame wrote:soxfan2003 wrote:johnnyballgame wrote:
Taj Gibson could play for free and not be worth Kyrie Irving. Are you nuts?
Here are some Taj Gibson facts:
29 years old.
Career averages of 8 points and 5 rebounds.
Yeah. Lets trade Kyrie and all our picks for that. You Taj Gibson people crack me up beyond belief. One season the guy finally averages over 8 and 5 and all of a sudden he's a stud. Is he starting this year? Or did the Bulls go get a guy, no wait, two guys who play his spot? Taj Gibson. Get real.
I've looked into Irving's contract and now I think his trade value is
even worse than I thought.
We all probably agree that the EC is much weaker conference. The selection of starters for the all star game is sometimes a popularity contest and right now its not far-fetched to think Irving could beat out Rose, Wall, Lowry and Rondo. Cleveland will probably be on national TV more than any EC club.
If he is an all-star (I believe) starter, Irving's extension reported becomes projected to become $108,823,656 over 5 years. And Irving has a 15% trade kicker so we are in essence talking 125 million over 5 years or 132 million over 6 given the final year of his rookie contract. And an opt out after 4 years as well.
On the other hand, Gibson just turned 29 a month ago and doesn't have that much wear and tear since Chicago played an inferior player(Boozer) because of his high salary except when games were on the line and Gibson played more.
Gibson's Real Plus Minus RPM is about 5 points higher then Irving. RPM isn't a perfect stat but its crazy to completely ignore it as well.
Kevin Love 5.07
Gibson 4.16
Irving -1.39
Tristan Thompson -2.05
Ask yourself why the Bulls made the playoffs this year? It was defense and Gibson is perhaps their most underrated defender. He is better defensively than Irving is better offensively right now.
Gibson ranked 22nd in the NBA in defense according to RPM and Irving 43rd on offense.
Sure Irving is likely to surpass him as a player 4 years from now but will he be 10 million a year better by then? I wouldn't be on that.
The money not used on Irving in a Gibson scenario can be used elsewhere.
You're completely $@(#*#( delusional.
Irving is likely to surpass him 4 years from now? He is ALREADY FAR, FAR ahead of him!
Let me know when Gibson cracks a starting lineup, earns an allstar nod or an allstar MVP, or a max contract or the respect of his GM to not go get two players at his position.
You're in for a big surprise when your man crush returns to 8 and 5 this season.
Gibson is an excellent defensive player and defense is arguably more than half the game since defense is more associated with championships than offense. Gibson still averaged 13 PPG this year and 18 PPG in the playoffs. He has been very good in limited minutes throughout his career. He just happened to go to a team Chicago that had to play an extremely well paid player/former all-star in front of him. Chicago was hoping to trade Boozer.
Gibson still averaged nearly 31 MPG in this years playoffs. And of all of the Bulls he performed best.
For all intents and purposes Gibson was "starting" over Boozer in the games that mattered in the playoffs.
Playoff minutes.
154 Gibson
121 Boozer
Also averaged slightly more minutes than Boozer in the regular season despite Chicago probably not wanting to crater Boozer's trade/amnesty value.
Put simply, Irving has to play much better defense or seriously upgrade his offense in a major to surpass a 2 way player like Gibson. Gibson isn't great offensively but at least he is good on that end.
Gibson will end up playing more minutes than either of the Bulls new editions in the games that count(playoffs). Just wait and see. Chicago with its depth is showing what can be done when you don't spend an average of 22 million a year on a player like Irving. Lebron is well worth 35 million a year but Irving is not worth 22 million.
Ginobili came off the bench for a lot of his career. I would have taken him at his contract value over probably 60% of the all-stars at times..
Your the person who appears to have a "man crush". I just listed Gibson as one of the players who should have more on the court value to other teams right now than Irving. You are acting like Irving is this super hero that can't be questioned when the facts show he hasn't been.
Actual all-star game performances mean next to nothing. Defense isn't played. All-star nod as we all know can be a joke as well. It is just one small data point but this past year, the Cavs were 5-6 without Irving.
If salaries weren't a consideration at all sure I would take my chances on Irving over Gibson going forward but its foolish in trade discussions to ignore an average of 22 million a year which could go to an average of 25 million per year after next year if Irving makes another all star game in the weak east.
