Im Wiggin Out and Just Want to Know What Love Is

[rjgraca]

Love is 25 so I don't know why there isn't a future there. Also getting cap space is a lot easier to do then obtaining a star player.

Love has had injuries, but I wouldn't call him injury prone. A broken hand isn't something that should be recurring.

The new CBA penalizes teams that have a big 3 max contracts which is short-term thinking at the very best. When you have 3 players maxed with the current CBA's salary cap that have long term commitments (smaller markets need this) you can not easily get cap room. Given that K. Irving and K. Love have shown themselves to be less than durable health wize so far in their careers. The Spurs just took out that Big 3 model team in Miami that is short on draft picks and cap space in the short-term joining the treadmill teams. IMO, the Spurs model is the way to go for long-term success which would include keeping Wiggins and his rookie contract and going forward.

Just like the Wolves need to be patient with K. Love going forward... the Cavs need to remain flexiable with the salary cap like the Spurs have done to make adjustments from season to season.

The Heat did just fine with the 3 max system. If Lebron resigned with the Heat they'd probably go to their 5 straight final. The Rockets were more then willing to go the 3 max player route. Even if the luxury tax does get too harsh, it's not like teams wouldn't trade for Love or Irving in a heartbeat.

The Spurs model is the outlier, not the standard. No team has the combination of coaching,developing,scouting, and drafting the Spurs do. Star players have been by far the most successful model used for winning a title. Look at the history

Yes, Lebron could have stayed with the Heat and maybe gotten to the finals, but the results would be the same with one of the western conference teams taking them out. Wades decline and max contract would have precluded themn from making the neccessary moves.

it's popular for owners to spend to the max, but the unless it contrains the right mix of 2 way players and helath durability they are going to find it hard to win a championship... you still need depth and 3 max players are not a reciepe for continued success. You can't find a lot of fault in the Spurs model for smaller market success which is patience and doing it the right way.

[gamrecords]

I think they should get Love, because as we now know, Lebron needs all the help he can to win. He can't win with up and coming great players he needs other All-Stars around him. And even then, It's no guarantee of winning.

If this was Jordan, Wiggins would be his Pippen, If it was Magic, this would be his Worthy, and so on.

Lebron Needs help, and then he is King James when they win, and the other guys fault,("I didn't have enough talent around me") when they lose.

Lebron bought into the hype, his only concern is his stats and how many rings he can get. He feels he needs to be great, and he'll go buy it instead of earning it.
Not really a team player unless "I need more All-stars" is your definition of a team player.

michael

[guest81]

You leave me no choice.. Warned and suspended.

[guest81]

The new CBA penalizes teams that have a big 3 max contracts which is short-term thinking at the very best. When you have 3 players maxed with the current CBA's salary cap that have long term commitments (smaller markets need this) you can not easily get cap room. Given that K. Irving and K. Love have shown themselves to be less than durable health wize so far in their careers. The Spurs just took out that Big 3 model team in Miami that is short on draft picks and cap space in the short-term joining the treadmill teams. IMO, the Spurs model is the way to go for long-term success which would include keeping Wiggins and his rookie contract and going forward.

Just like the Wolves need to be patient with K. Love going forward... the Cavs need to remain flexiable with the salary cap like the Spurs have done to make adjustments from season to season.

The Heat did just fine with the 3 max system. If Lebron resigned with the Heat they'd probably go to their 5 straight final. The Rockets were more then willing to go the 3 max player route. Even if the luxury tax does get too harsh, it's not like teams wouldn't trade for Love or Irving in a heartbeat.

The Spurs model is the outlier, not the standard. No team has the combination of coaching,developing,scouting, and drafting the Spurs do. Star players have been by far the most successful model used for winning a title. Look at the history

Yes, Lebron could have stayed with the Heat and maybe gotten to the finals, but the results would be the same with one of the western conference teams taking them out. Wades decline and max contract would have precluded themn from making the neccessary moves.

it's popular for owners to spend to the max, but the unless it contrains the right mix of 2 way players and helath durability they are going to find it hard to win a championship... you still need depth and 3 max players are not a reciepe for continued success. You can't find a lot of fault in the Spurs model for smaller market success which is patience and doing it the right way.

Spurs are literally the only team that has ever had success with that model. They are the anomaly, it would be silly to think a team can replicate that kind of success just because they have a bunch of young players. Cavs don't have pop or his development staff, nor do they have the scouting and drafting people the Spurs have

[CavsKSU25]

Not to mention the Wolves have shown that they are willing to keep Love the whole season and try to convince him to stay. Might sound crazy to try to convince Love, but making the playoffs isn't. This is why they aren't desperate, and it will be extremely hard for the Cavs to obtain him in free agency.


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but minnesota isn't winning any titles anytime soon, Love knows that. he has no reason to stay, and the longer the wolves go without moving him the less leverage they have.

You make a good point, but Flip and Glen control where he goes for this year and if they truly believe that they can convince him, then that throws out most of the points you make.


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sure they might control where he goes in a trade, but if he comes out and says he will only resign with Cleveland then what team is going to give him anything significant in a deal?

[CavsKSU25]

Also with the point of "Love leaving for nothing" so they'll take a package of Waiters/Bennett later,

Love leaving for nothing= 15 million in cap space. I would think even a team like the Wolves could get players in FA the caliber of a Waiters/Bennett combo with 15 million. So why not try to get more?

because when has minnesota ever attracted a highly talented FA? Waiters is a 22 year old 16 PPG already, not many of those guys in the league

[Markkbu]

Also with the point of "Love leaving for nothing" so they'll take a package of Waiters/Bennett later,

Love leaving for nothing= 15 million in cap space. I would think even a team like the Wolves could get players in FA the caliber of a Waiters/Bennett combo with 15 million. So why not try to get more?

because when has minnesota ever attracted a highly talented FA? Waiters is a 22 year old 16 PPG already, not many of those guys in the league

I really don't think that Flip wants any part of the trade except Wiggins and draft picks. Flip probably views Waiters, Bennett, or Thompson as having negative value.

One would have to have a lot of confidence in Bennett's and Thompson's "potential" to think that they might ever be worth their current salaries, and Waiter is just inefficient. Yes, he shoots a lot, but man, he'd be much better if he would take less shots and have his efficiency go up to average.

We already have a more efficient SG that scores more and gets to the line more in Martin, that we are trying to get rid of as a salary dump. If we are trying to do that with Martin, I'm not inclined to think that Flip see much value in the guys that the Cavs are offering.

[CavsKSU25]

Also with the point of "Love leaving for nothing" so they'll take a package of Waiters/Bennett later,

Love leaving for nothing= 15 million in cap space. I would think even a team like the Wolves could get players in FA the caliber of a Waiters/Bennett combo with 15 million. So why not try to get more?

because when has minnesota ever attracted a highly talented FA? Waiters is a 22 year old 16 PPG already, not many of those guys in the league

I really don't think that Flip wants any part of the trade except Wiggins and draft picks. Flip probably views Waiters, Bennett, or Thompson as having negative value.

One would have to have a lot of confidence in Bennett's and Thompson's "potential" to think that they might ever be worth their current salaries, and Waiter is just inefficient. Yes, he shoots a lot, but man, he'd be much better if he would take less shots and have his efficiency go up to average.

We already have a more efficient SG that scores more and gets to the line more in Martin, that we are trying to get rid of as a salary dump. If we are trying to do that with Martin, I'm not inclined to think that Flip see much value in the guys that the Cavs are offering.

Then why are you trying to get Klay Thompson who is less efficant then Waiters? Doens't make sense. Bennetts also only had 1 year, and he was injured before that so he didnt even have a camp or time to get in shape or healthy. i have alot more confidence in them reaching their potential then i do of Love signing long term and staying 8-10 years.

i can also see the Cavs demaning Dieng back if the deal is Wiggins, Bennett and Miamis first, which is unprotected in 2017.

[B Mac]

I have a feeling this thread, and whole forum really, is about to get very interesting.

[Markkbu]

because when has minnesota ever attracted a highly talented FA? Waiters is a 22 year old 16 PPG already, not many of those guys in the league

I really don't think that Flip wants any part of the trade except Wiggins and draft picks. Flip probably views Waiters, Bennett, or Thompson as having negative value.

One would have to have a lot of confidence in Bennett's and Thompson's "potential" to think that they might ever be worth their current salaries, and Waiter is just inefficient. Yes, he shoots a lot, but man, he'd be much better if he would take less shots and have his efficiency go up to average.

We already have a more efficient SG that scores more and gets to the line more in Martin, that we are trying to get rid of as a salary dump. If we are trying to do that with Martin, I'm not inclined to think that Flip see much value in the guys that the Cavs are offering.

Then why are you trying to get Klay Thompson who is less efficant then Waiters? Doens't make sense. Bennetts also only had 1 year, and he was injured before that so he didnt even have a camp or time to get in shape or healthy. i have alot more confidence in them reaching their potential then i do of Love signing long term and staying 8-10 years.

i can also see the Cavs demaning Dieng back if the deal is Wiggins, Bennett and Miamis first, which is unprotected in 2017.

It is very clear to me why this wouldn't make sense to you.

It will probably make more sense when you understand that Klay is a FAR more efficient scorer than Waiters.

Here let's look at #s. (I included the # of Martin who we are trying to salary dump right now)

................eFG%.....TS%
Klay ............533 ......555
Martin...........486.......553
Waiters ........479.......508

Klay is consistently above average in scoring efficiency while Waiter is consistently below average.

Klay is also a very good defender (normally guarding the opposing team's best guard to give Curry a break).

I hope that you are right about those other guys' potential. That would be neat if they ended up being decent. Most, that I know of, don't have as much confidence that these guys can turn their careers around, let alone be worth their current contract.

I hope this clears things up a bit for you.

[CavsKSU25]

I really don't think that Flip wants any part of the trade except Wiggins and draft picks. Flip probably views Waiters, Bennett, or Thompson as having negative value.

One would have to have a lot of confidence in Bennett's and Thompson's "potential" to think that they might ever be worth their current salaries, and Waiter is just inefficient. Yes, he shoots a lot, but man, he'd be much better if he would take less shots and have his efficiency go up to average.

We already have a more efficient SG that scores more and gets to the line more in Martin, that we are trying to get rid of as a salary dump. If we are trying to do that with Martin, I'm not inclined to think that Flip see much value in the guys that the Cavs are offering.

Then why are you trying to get Klay Thompson who is less efficant then Waiters? Doens't make sense. Bennetts also only had 1 year, and he was injured before that so he didnt even have a camp or time to get in shape or healthy. i have alot more confidence in them reaching their potential then i do of Love signing long term and staying 8-10 years.

i can also see the Cavs demaning Dieng back if the deal is Wiggins, Bennett and Miamis first, which is unprotected in 2017.

It is very clear to me why this wouldn't make sense to you.

It will probably make more sense when you understand that Klay is a FAR more efficient scorer than Waiters.

Here let's look at #s. (I included the # of Martin who we are trying to salary dump right now)

................eFG%.....TS%
Klay ............533 ......555
Martin...........486.......553
Waiters ........479.......508

Klay is consistently above average in scoring efficiency while Waiter is consistently below average.

Klay is also a very good defender (normally guarding the opposing team's best guard to give Curry a break).

I hope that you are right about those other guys' potential. That would be neat if they ended up being decent. Most, that I know of, don't have as much confidence that these guys can turn their careers around, let alone be worth their current contract.

I hope this clears things up a bit for you.

i hope this clears things up a bit for you

Waiters 16 PPG on 14.5 Shots per game with 4 APG
Thompson 16 PPG on 15.5 Shots per game with 2.5 APG

Doesn't get any more simple then that.

[JShuttlesworth]

I think the Cavs need to find a way to make that trade happen without involving Wiggins. Love is going to bounce from Minnesota next year anyways. No need to rush on this trade, the TWolves will be losing trade leverage by the game once the season starts. Love is dope though, dont get me wrong - Kyrie/Lebron/Love sounds like a deadly combo.

If Wiggins goes to Minnesota it's all good in my opinion...more likely he'll come home to Toronto after 4 years.

[CavsKSU25]

I think the Cavs need to find a way to make that trade happen without involving Wiggins. Love is going to bounce from Minnesota next year anyways. No need to rush on this trade, the TWolves will be losing trade leverage by the game once the season starts. Love is dope though, dont get me wrong - Kyrie/Lebron/Love sounds like a deadly combo.

If Wiggins goes to Minnesota it's all good in my opinion...more likely he'll come home to Toronto after 4 years.

its not likley wiggins goes back to toronto, its not a desireable NBA destination, not trolling just being truthful. and Wiggins is a RFA in 4 years, i never understood how fans who say so and so is going to leave in 4 years, they legally can't leave in 4 years unless the team who drafted them wants to dump them

[KuruptedCav]

Love isn't the only "piece of the puzzle" out there. If we're willing to overpay, then...

Derrick Favors
Greg Monroe
Al Jefferson
Kenneth Fareid
A



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[Twolf16]

but minnesota isn't winning any titles anytime soon, Love knows that. he has no reason to stay, and the longer the wolves go without moving him the less leverage they have.

You make a good point, but Flip and Glen control where he goes for this year and if they truly believe that they can convince him, then that throws out most of the points you make.


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sure they might control where he goes in a trade, but if he comes out and says he will only resign with Cleveland then what team is going to give him anything significant in a deal?

No one, but that doesn't bother the wolves because they're willing to keep him for the season anyway.


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[CavsKSU25]

You make a good point, but Flip and Glen control where he goes for this year and if they truly believe that they can convince him, then that throws out most of the points you make.


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sure they might control where he goes in a trade, but if he comes out and says he will only resign with Cleveland then what team is going to give him anything significant in a deal?

No one, but that doesn't bother the wolves because they're willing to keep him for the season anyway.


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your only fooling yourself here, there is literally zero chance the wolves let love go for nothing. he's not re-signing and sure you might have 15 mil in cap space, but who wants to come play in Minnesota especially a Wolves team without Love?

[Twolf16]

sure they might control where he goes in a trade, but if he comes out and says he will only resign with Cleveland then what team is going to give him anything significant in a deal?

No one, but that doesn't bother the wolves because they're willing to keep him for the season anyway.


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your only fooling yourself here, there is literally zero chance the wolves let love go for nothing. he's not re-signing and sure you might have 15 mil in cap space, but who wants to come play in Minnesota especially a Wolves team without Love?

I'm not fooling myself, I'm just going off the worlds of Glen Taylor and Flip. They believe they can make the playoffs and convince him to stay, especially if they don't get the deal they want for love. That right there is basically what gives them the upper hand. And cap space is always better than crappy returns. Look I'm not saying Love will stay, in fact, I think he is a goner. But what Flip is saying is you either give us what we want, or he is a free agent. As far as getting players to MN (free agents) I'm not to worried about it. Well never attract super talent, so we just have to build through the draft and try to keep the rookies we draft lol.


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[JShuttlesworth]

I think the Cavs need to find a way to make that trade happen without involving Wiggins. Love is going to bounce from Minnesota next year anyways. No need to rush on this trade, the TWolves will be losing trade leverage by the game once the season starts. Love is dope though, dont get me wrong - Kyrie/Lebron/Love sounds like a deadly combo.

If Wiggins goes to Minnesota it's all good in my opinion...more likely he'll come home to Toronto after 4 years.

its not likley wiggins goes back to toronto, its not a desireable NBA destination, not trolling just being truthful. and Wiggins is a RFA in 4 years, i never understood how fans who say so and so is going to leave in 4 years, they legally can't leave in 4 years unless the team who drafted them wants to dump them

you ever been to Toronto?

[Big_Aristotle]

I've been in the "trade Wiggins for Love camp" in the last week but I'm retracting that.

Even if we get Love we still have a whole new roster with a lot of young players and a new coach. If we look in recent history I only think the Celtics could win it all in the first year of being together, but they had much more veterans in the team. We cannot expect a 'ship in the first year

This would mean that if we keep Wiggins, Bennet, Thompson and Waiters they have at least one year to show their potential under the leadership of LeBron/Kyrie/Coach while retaining cap flexibility and all assets (picks, Haywoods contract), ... This means there is no reason to overpay for an expiring Love who has had many injuries the last 3 years AND never even made the playoffs. Wait until February or June where our assets will probably have more value and the Wolves' close to none. At the same time we get a lot more insight in our current roster and will have a better assessment on what the team needs.

[six6ers]

Cleveland is nuts if they trade Wiggins for Love. He's so overrated.