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Around The League Thread

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#501 » by humanrefutation » Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:00 pm

crkone wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
crkone wrote:He's hired guys who were long term coaches that showed zero inkling that they'd be able to manage effectively when they were hired. They were for years the hot name to hire that no one bit on until the Brewers got them. Retread candidates. Maddon showed what he had early in his coaching career.


LOL, I feel like I'm talking to a wall. You might not have liked his previous hires (and that's fine! We can discuss that point,) but they weren't retreads. Even Maddon went 12(!) years as a coach before being hired as a manager.

[img]http://www.liquifiedcreative.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/You-Keep-Using-that-Word.jpg[/img]

I'm sorry if you don't understand me but I can't dumb it down anymore than I already have.


I do understand what you're saying, it's just wrong. Our debate is over the word "retread." You don't know what a retread is. And even if I accepted your incorrect definition of the word, the examples you give directly contradict your point.

That being said, I'm fine moving on with this at this point - we're talking in circles.
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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#502 » by ReasonablySober » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:00 pm

crkone I think you're the only one I've ever heard refer to a guy without managerial experience as a retread.

Dusty Baker would be a retread. Dave Martinez, despite having interviewed for numerous managerial positions, definitely wouldn't be.
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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#503 » by crkone » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:30 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:crkone I think you're the only one I've ever heard refer to a guy without managerial experience as a retread.

Dusty Baker would be a retread. Dave Martinez, despite having interviewed for numerous managerial positions, definitely wouldn't be.


That is true so here we go. I am giving the definition of a retread candidate as someone who has been a bench coach/assistant coach for many seasons, has interviewed/been rumored numerous times for head positions, but fails once he gets up to manager/head coach. Usually only hired by low swinging tread-milling teams. I should write for Grantland with this hot take.

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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#504 » by ReasonablySober » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:33 pm

crkone wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:crkone I think you're the only one I've ever heard refer to a guy without managerial experience as a retread.

Dusty Baker would be a retread. Dave Martinez, despite having interviewed for numerous managerial positions, definitely wouldn't be.


That is true so here we go. I am giving the definition of a retread candidate as someone who has been a bench coach/assistant coach for many seasons, has interviewed/been rumored numerous times for head positions, but fails once he gets up to manager/head coach. Usually only hired by low swinging tread-milling teams. I should write for Grantland with this hot take.


Something Mark A's only done once (Macha) by your own definition. So you can understand HR and myself being confused when you say he likes his retreads.
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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#505 » by crkone » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:18 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
crkone wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:crkone I think you're the only one I've ever heard refer to a guy without managerial experience as a retread.

Dusty Baker would be a retread. Dave Martinez, despite having interviewed for numerous managerial positions, definitely wouldn't be.


That is true so here we go. I am giving the definition of a retread candidate as someone who has been a bench coach/assistant coach for many seasons, has interviewed/been rumored numerous times for head positions, but fails once he gets up to manager/head coach. Usually only hired by low swinging tread-milling teams. I should write for Grantland with this hot take.


Something Mark A's only done once (Macha) by your own definition. So you can understand HR and myself being confused when you say he likes his retreads.


Yost nor Roenicke fit that definition?

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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#506 » by ReasonablySober » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:21 pm

crkone wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
crkone wrote:
That is true so here we go. I am giving the definition of a retread candidate as someone who has been a bench coach/assistant coach for many seasons, has interviewed/been rumored numerous times for head positions, but fails once he gets up to manager/head coach. Usually only hired by low swinging tread-milling teams. I should write for Grantland with this hot take.


Something Mark A's only done once (Macha) by your own definition. So you can understand HR and myself being confused when you say he likes his retreads.


Yost nor Roenicke fit that definition?


Of course not. Neither had been managers before Mark hired them. Hell, I have a hard time considering Macha a retread considering he'd only been a manager in one other organization. It's not like he'd been a four time manager that never found success.
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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#507 » by crkone » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:31 pm

You guys seriously don't understand it. They don't have to be managers to be "retread candidates" . They have to be long time assistants who have flirted with manager positions but only to fill the interview quota for the sole team they are interviewing with. Only treadmilling teams who strike out elsewhere or don't have good management actually hire them to be managers. Retread as in candidates who always come us for jobs but should never be hired. They should stay long term assistants for whatever reason.

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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#508 » by trwi7 » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:53 pm

crkone wrote:You guys seriously don't understand it.


You're the one who doesn't understand it. And why are we talking about Yost? Attanasio wasn't the owner when Yost was hired.
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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#509 » by crkone » Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:02 pm

I understand completely what I'm talking about. I'm sorry if you folks don't understand. Lol

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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#510 » by ReasonablySober » Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:27 pm

crkone wrote:You guys seriously don't understand it. They don't have to be managers to be "retread candidates" . They have to be long time assistants who have flirted with manager positions but only to fill the interview quota for the sole team they are interviewing with. Only treadmilling teams who strike out elsewhere or don't have good management actually hire them to be managers. Retread as in candidates who always come us for jobs but should never be hired. They should stay long term assistants for whatever reason.


You yourself said this:

someone who has been a bench coach/assistant coach for many seasons, has interviewed/been rumored numerous times for head positions, but fails once he gets up to manager/head coach.


Only Macha has been a manager previously to being hired, and it's tough to say that he failed in Oakland considering his win totals, by year, were 91, 86, 88, 93.

Anyway, this is dumb and eating into my drinking time and I have very good reasons to get blackout-rip-shi*ting-asleep-in-a-bathtub-by-9:00 hammered.

See y'all tomorrow. I'm going time traveling.
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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#511 » by El Duderino » Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:27 pm

Wow, the position crkone tried taking in this thread is one of the bizarre things i've seen in a long time on these sports forums.

Somehow managers with no previous experience as a manager are retreads and only those who disagreed were the ones not getting it. Ummm, ok.

As for Joe Maddon and Roenicke, they literally coached together for awhile under Mike Scioscia. Maddon was there earlier and thus was eventually promoted to the lead bench coach role before getting hired by Tampa and then Roenicke replaced Maddon in that role. Both served nearly the exact same roles with the Angels, just at different time frames and under the same manager in Mike Scioscia. Yet according to crkone, one wasn't a retread hire and the other was even though their paths couldn't have been more similar. :roll:
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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#512 » by wichmae » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:23 am

When youre the only one in a room full of people who has an opposite view and says the masses dont understand. Theres probably something off about that view.
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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#513 » by blazza18 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:51 am

:lol:
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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#514 » by crkone » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:25 pm

It's effectively the Peter Principle, and it was obvious from the beginning they were the wrong hires. Doesn't matter since talent wins games and Melvin could only supply talent in one facet of the game at a time so no one could of won here.

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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#515 » by El Duderino » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:53 pm

crkone wrote:It's effectively the Peter Principle, and it was obvious from the beginning they were the wrong hires. Doesn't matter since talent wins games and Melvin could only supply talent in one facet of the game at a time so no one could of won here.


The Brewers did win a franchise record 96 games in 2011 and were only two wins away from making the World Series.

That said, i do agree that in general managers importance in baseball is often overrated by many. Hell, Ned Yost was in the World Series last year and the Royals currently have the best record in the NL. Many Cardinals fans hate Matheny and that team has the best record in baseball. The A's averaged 90 wins a season under Macha.

Clint Hurdle would have been considered a retread hire by you as he was neither young nor a big analytics guy, along with a 534–625 record as the Rockies manager, yet the Pirates have thrived during his tenure. Bruce Bochy would be another retread hire after a regular season record of 951–975 and a post–season record of 8–16 with the Padres, yet the Giants have won three rings since he took over there. Joe Torre was fired three times before taking over the Yankees

There just is no obvious formula when hiring a manager.
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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#516 » by El Duderino » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:01 pm

Man, how fun would it be to be a Toronto fan. That team just mashes offensively and now their pitching is pretty good. If they only score 5-6 runs in a game, it's almost an off day for that offense.
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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#517 » by trwi7 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:34 am

This is crkone arguing about retread managers.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlv7Bp-L2MM[/youtube]
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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#518 » by Thunder Muscle » Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:07 pm

M-C-G wrote:
crkone wrote:Jack Z is gone. He really flopped on a couple of his picks.


Think he gets brought back into the fold here? He was very highly thought of as I recall.


I didn't realize Jack Z was 64. I don't think he gets brought in here. How is Seattle's farm system? I know his big free agents kind of flopped and hurt his tenure.
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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#519 » by trwi7 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:03 pm

Player development has been a complete disaster for the Mariners since he went there.
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Re: Around The League Thread 

Post#520 » by Thunder Muscle » Wed Sep 2, 2015 4:34 pm

NL playoff picture pretty well set barring some major collapses. I'm pretty much in an anybody but Cards or Cubs mindset. Still kind hope the Cubs fall apart but I don't see them blowing their lead, up 7 in the loss column on SF.

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