Mavericks 2017 Draft #9

[Devassa]

We all know what the Mavs are going to do. We are going to trade down at least once and probably end up drafting a guy like Luke Kennard who will be out of the league before his rookie deal expires.

I'd be very surprised... If we do end up trading our pick at all, then it better be either to move up a couple spots in the lottery or out of the first round altogether and for a proven star (Bledsoe). There isn't anyone in free agency worth saving money for by trading down, so what's the point of doing it then?

There is no point. It's just what Dallas does. I mean think about the times we have traded down over the last 5-6 years and how little money we saved doing so. If we really needed to clear the cap space, surely we could have found a better way. I think that we chose moving down in the draft reflected the Mavs' FO belief that the draft wasn't a way worth building through. Sure maybe you find a Josh Howard or a Jae Crowder, but since we mostly found Pavel or Cunningham or DoJo or Bernard James or Larkin it just further cemented their belief that it didn't matter.

I hope those days are finally done. Cuban certainly has been vocal in talking up the importance of the draft over the past year or so. But call me skeptical that they will really change their ways. Especially since the current team has played so much better after the horrible start. Makes me afraid that Cuban will think we aren't as far away as we really are and continue to take a short-sighted approach.

Anyways sorry for the pessimism. I know I tend to be the board realist(well that's my word, some of you might choose "hater" or pessimist or something less positive....), but I've actually been really encouraged by this season and am encouraged by some of the young pieces we have---and we dealt the one I was ready to give up on in Anderson. I just can't trust Mark about the draft yet.

Understandable. It's hard to be optimistic in regards to Cuban and Nellie over the past few years... athe Noel trade was brilliant, but it comes after years of head scratching moves so a little skepticism is to be expected. I think the general consensus with this draft is that you do not deal a Top 10 pick unless you are just blown away with a deal. I see no prospects outside of the top 10 worth giving that pick up for... as far as trading the pick for a vet, it needs to be an all star or borderline all star caliber player for it to even be considered giving up for... You never know with this front office though so I am as nervous as the rest of you.

[Teffer10]

We all know what the Mavs are going to do. We are going to trade down at least once and probably end up drafting a guy like Luke Kennard who will be out of the league before his rookie deal expires.

I'd be very surprised... If we do end up trading our pick at all, then it better be either to move up a couple spots in the lottery or out of the first round altogether and for a proven star (Bledsoe). There isn't anyone in free agency worth saving money for by trading down, so what's the point of doing it then?

There is no point. It's just what Dallas does. I mean think about the times we have traded down over the last 5-6 years and how little money we saved doing so. If we really needed to clear the cap space, surely we could have found a better way. I think that we chose moving down in the draft reflected the Mavs' FO belief that the draft wasn't a way worth building through. Sure maybe you find a Josh Howard or a Jae Crowder, but since we mostly found Pavel or Cunningham or DoJo or Bernard James or Larkin it just further cemented their belief that it didn't matter.

I hope those days are finally done. Cuban certainly has been vocal in talking up the importance of the draft over the past year or so. But call me skeptical that they will really change their ways. Especially since the current team has played so much better after the horrible start. Makes me afraid that Cuban will think we aren't as far away as we really are and continue to take a short-sighted approach.

Anyways sorry for the pessimism. I know I tend to be the board realist(well that's my word, some of you might choose "hater" or pessimist or something less positive....), but I've actually been really encouraged by this season and am encouraged by some of the young pieces we have---and we dealt the one I was ready to give up on in Anderson. I just can't trust Mark about the draft yet.

Chuck I think it will be different this time because our situation is much different than those you mention. We were a contender most of those seasons when we traded those picks and even a lotto player would have had a hard time being a core player off the bat. We were in complete "win-now" mode and some of those moves were somewhat understandable....quantity over quality.

But now we are clearly in rebuild mode and need talent to go with a young core so I think they will do what they can to add a starter quality piece whether it be through the draft, FA or trade.
I still think Powel and our pick for Bledsoe would be a decent trade for both teams if we are in the 10-14 range.

[Teffer10]

Hypothetical Questions....
What is Barnes worth in terms of draft pick?
What is Curry worth in terms of draft pick?
What is Wes worth in terms of draft pick (assuming we are taking back some salary)?

Just saying if we could start this thing from scratch with 4 lotto picks to go with Yogi/DFS/Noel would you be willing to give up those 3 or is that a far fetched notion?

For instance, would a team like the Lakers be willing to trade their pick for Barnes?
Would a top 10 lotto team give up their pick for Curry?
Would Portland give up their pick for Wes if we take back Evans?

[agentofatlas]

If the Mavs are gonna trade the pick at least get someone below 25. It's a long shot now that he is playing well but I'll keep my eye on Philly with Saric. There might be some redundancy there with Simmons at the 4 spot.

At the end of the day I rather they just draft someone. I still stick to my pick of Bridges as realistically he's in the Mavs range.

[Devassa]

Hypothetical Questions....

What is Barnes worth in terms of draft pick?

Have to be a Top 7 pick I think. Maybe not even then with Cuban and Nellie. He's pretty much untouchable

What is Curry worth in terms of draft pick?

A late lottery pick.. 10-14 range. He's shown flashes of potential, but I wouldn't want to get rid of him unless we were getting something like that back

What is Wes worth in terms of draft pick (assuming we are taking back some salary)?

A first rounder (present or future). He's a large expiring and a solid vet/locker room guy... Maybe if we could combine our pick with Wes we could move up and take Sacramentos pick. That would be worth it to me

Just saying if we could start this thing from scratch with 4 lotto picks to go with Yogi/DFS/Noel would you be willing to give up those 3 or is that a far fetched notion?

Of course. The market probably doesn't exist for some of those guys though... kinda like how we thought D Will would fetch us a pick.

For instance, would a team like the Lakers be willing to trade their pick for Barnes?
Would a top 10 lotto team give up their pick for Curry?

No to both.

Would Portland give up their pick for Wes if we take back Evans?

Probably. Is that worth it though? Turner is reeeeeaaaally bad

[Hadley]

I doubt we get a Lotterpick for any of them except Barnes.

[Otis Driftwood]

... Cuban certainly has been vocal in talking up the importance of the draft over the past year or so. But call me skeptical that they will really change their ways. Especially since the current team has played so much better after the horrible start. Makes me afraid that Cuban will think we aren't as far away as we really are and continue to take a short-sighted approach.

Anyways sorry for the pessimism. I know I tend to be the board realist(well that's my word, some of you might choose "hater" or pessimist or something less positive....), but I've actually been really encouraged by this season and am encouraged by some of the young pieces we have---and we dealt the one I was ready to give up on in Anderson. I just can't trust Mark about the draft yet.

Cuban and Nelson have a lot to prove when it comes to the draft for all of us. The fact that have made absolutely no secret of the fact they viewed the draft as an inconvenient annoyance over the years has been frustrating and is Reason #1 this team started the season where it did when the injuries came. I will give them plenty of credit for identifying the kids that give all of us hope going forward. Now, it's time to feed this team with another solid piece... and take the draft seriously.

[Jinra]

I think team desperation will force Cuban and Nelson to think differently in this draft. We should not see any wasted picks on cash relief, or publicity player stunts, or trading back to pickup extra 2nd round picks; because f they miss on the draft this year, the Dallas Mavericks could start a new trend of being an annual bubble team. Not good enough to get to consistently make the playoffs and not bad enough to get a top 10 pick.

[2011Champs]

The bad thing is that Cuban doesn't even acknowledge that a huge franchise changing mistake was made by not drafting Giannis. We shall see what this year brings.

[JamesConway]

I doubt we get a Lotterpick for any of them except Barnes.

Hard to tell from the outside looking in, but I tend to agree. And I'm not even sure Barnes lands you more than a late lottery 1st. He makes a ton of money and is up in those spheres that also guys like Kawhi are in financially. And regardless of how excited I am about HB's development, it's really not like his game is w/o its flaws (bad rebounding, bad assist-numbers, three point-shooting still hasn't come around). Therefore I'm not sure how much market there really exists for him.

Edit: and maybe I should clarify that: dumping/trading Barnes shouldn't be a topic right now anyway. He's done everything that was hoped he could and then some. That's not the type of talent you move given the situation we're in unless it's a no-brainer offer. We'll need to add to him and not the other way around and try to sell him off.


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[Jinra]

I doubt we get a Lotterpick for any of them except Barnes.

Hard to tell from the outside looking in, but I tend to agree. And I'm not even sure Barnes lands you more than a late lottery 1st. He makes a ton of money and is up in those spheres that also guys like Kawhi are in financially. And regardless of how excited I am about HB's development, it's really not like his game is w/o its flaws (bad rebounding, bad assist-numbers, three point-shooting still hasn't come around). Therefore I'm not sure how much market there really exists for him.

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I think there are a number of teams who would give up a lottery pick for HB, I just don't know that I would be that excited to trade HB in those transactions. New York would easily give us a package starting with Carmelo Anthony + 2017 1st for Barnes. I think even Boston would hand over one of those 2017 first rounders for Barnes. Again, I would not be excited about that type of package for Barnes. I would only be interested in another established player for Barnes.

[Darren]

The bad thing is that Cuban doesn't even acknowledge that a huge franchise changing mistake was made by not drafting Giannis. We shall see what this year brings.

Yes, we miss out Rudy Gobert as well. I still remember I have both kids at the top of my wishlist. Both of them stars on nba floor.

[bobsquad]

Especially on the heels of this 2 game skid, I'm still optimistic of a top 10 pick. If we fall out of the lottery I could see us moving our pick for a young player (i.e. Mudiay).

In response to assessment of what our players are worth pick-wise: I don't think any of our guys are worth a lottery pick. Barnes is clearly a lottery talent, but no one would give up a pick (cheap potential) for him (expensive potential).

We could think that Noel is, but clearly that's not the case since Philly couldn't get even a late first for him.

Curry's deal is up too soon to be moved for a pick, except maybe for a stupid team like Orlando that gives up lottery picks for expiring deals. But more likely, the league has learned from the Ibaka trade mess.

Wes is also too expensive to be moved for a pick unless bad salary is coming our way.

Ferrell, DFS, and Mejri could all net decent seconds, but those guys are worth more to us than second round picks. (DFS could probably get a late first in a draft class short on perimeter defenders, so maybe look out for that.)

[Hadley]

The bad thing is that Cuban doesn't even acknowledge that a huge franchise changing mistake was made by not drafting Giannis. We shall see what this year brings.

Yeah and letting Nash go, but you can't live in the past. It doesn't change anything, we have to hope that we make better decisions in future drafts. These "What if..." Questions get you nothing, because you will never know.

[bobsquad]

The bad thing is that Cuban doesn't even acknowledge that a huge franchise changing mistake was made by not drafting Giannis. We shall see what this year brings.

Yeah and letting Nash go, but you can't live in the past. It doesn't change anything, we have to hope that we make better decisions in future drafts. These "What if..." Questions get you nothing, because you will never know.

OT, but letting Nash go ushered in the winningest run of Mavs basketball ever (next 3 seasons were 3 of the 4 best records in Mavs history). That 2003-04 team was a huge letdown, basically a superteam that couldn't play defense (3rd worst defensive rating in the league) and lost 4-1 in the first round to Sacramento. In a vacuum, spurning Nash for Erick Dampier seems foolish, but getting a legit defensive presence in the middle was the #1 priority this offseason. The move may have been misguided, but the vision that offseason (which also landed us Jason Terry and Devin Harris) was on point.

[fuller4379]

In general I think we are better off drafting someone who has played at least three years in college. I can see a Freshman draft pick being put in Carlisle's doghouse and never developing. At least someone who has played three to four years of college basketball would be a little more polished and stand a better chance to get minutes here.

[fuller4379]

The bad thing is that Cuban doesn't even acknowledge that a huge franchise changing mistake was made by not drafting Giannis. We shall see what this year brings.

Yeah and letting Nash go, but you can't live in the past. It doesn't change anything, we have to hope that we make better decisions in future drafts. These "What if..." Questions get you nothing, because you will never know.

OT, but letting Nash go ushered in the winningest run of Mavs basketball ever (next 3 seasons were 3 of the 4 best records in Mavs history). That 2003-04 team was a huge letdown, basically a superteam that couldn't play defense (3rd worst defensive rating in the league) and lost 4-1 in the first round to Sacramento. In a vacuum, spurning Nash for Erick Dampier seems foolish, but getting a legit defensive presence in the middle was the #1 priority this offseason. The move may have been misguided, but the vision that offseason (which also landed us Jason Terry and Devin Harris) was on point.

I agree. The premise of why they let Nash go was wrong, but it ended out helping the Mavs get to the next level. Although it would have been fun to have kept Nash in Dallas, he played no defense. I doubt we would have won the West twice with him. It is much easier to run your opponent out of the gym in regular season than post season. Letting Nash go was putting the middle finger up at Nellie and basically drove him out. The team needed The Little General at that time to enforce a different style of play which included being scrappy on defense.

[Hadley]

Have you watched the Mavs? We never had great Defense, except the Championship Season. And turning Nash into Dampier was definitly not what helped us win anything, even though its funny that Dampier later turned into Tyson.

[Otis Driftwood]

In general I think we are better off drafting someone who has played at least three years in college. I can see a Freshman draft pick being put in Carlisle's doghouse and never developing. At least someone who has played three to four years of college basketball would be a little more polished and stand a better chance to get minutes here.

Unless he is an absolutely "Can't Miss" Freshman, I completely agree with you on all counts... and I would go further and say at least 3 years prepares a kid to be a more mature pro also. Not to diminish the skill development but that mental development is almost as important when going up against grown men.

[JamesConway]

In general I think we are better off drafting someone who has played at least three years in college. I can see a Freshman draft pick being put in Carlisle's doghouse and never developing. At least someone who has played three to four years of college basketball would be a little more polished and stand a better chance to get minutes here.

Unless he is an absolutely "Can't Miss" Freshman, I completely agree with you on all counts... and I would go further and say at least 3 years prepares a kid to be a more mature pro also. Not to diminish the skill development but that mental development is almost as important when going up against grown men.

That's a great way to limit your ressources artificially, but I doubt that type of Anti-Freshman-dogma will help us to actually build a successful team. By that logic, Dirk never lands in DAL as he was far from a 'can't miss'-type of young kid too and extremely young when he came over. That's also exactly how you miss out on names like Giannis, Gobert or Schröder. For instance Justin Anderson was a Junior, yet that still did not change the fact that he could not get on the court for almost his entire first year with the Mavs.

Therefore, I disagree entirely, Imo that shouldn't be a criteria when evaluating draft prospect at all. We need to explore every single avenue to get young top-tier talent to DAL. Even more so when we're already fighting an uphill battle anyway due to our poor draft position.