RS 16/17 - G67 - Mavericks @ Wizards (Mar. 15 - 7PM EST)

[fuller4379]

I remember having such high hopes for Randy White and Doug Smith. Never panned out. After those two Gary Trent looked like an all star for us and Chris Gatling a superstar. Lol. Yes those were some dark days for Mavs basketball.

I remember Gatling insisting on coming off the bench because he wanted to be 6th Man of the Year.


Marty Burns January 13, 1997, issue of Sports Illustrated

It could be the hottest head-wear in Dallas since the 10-gallon hat. We're talking, of course, about those ubiquitous headbands popularized by Mavericks forward Chris Gatling. Before a game at Reunion Arena last month, golfer Fred Couples was seen sporting a blue terry cloth number while seated at midcourt. "I'm a big Gatling fan," says Couples, who lives in Dallas. "Even before he got here, I used to check his box score every morning to see how he did. I just always liked his game."

If Couples liked the 29-year-old Gatling's game before this season, he must be loving it like a six-inch eagle putt now. A 6'10" forward who was signed as a free agent from the Heat last summer, Gatling has emerged as the front-runner for the 1996-97 Sixth Man Award. At week's end he was leading the Mavericks in scoring (19.5 points per game) and rebounding (8.1), and ranked ninth in the league in field goal accuracy (53.2%). More impressive, he was putting up those numbers in just 27.2 minutes a game. The last NBA player to lead his team in both points and boards while averaging less than 28 minutes was Hall of Fame center Harry (the Horse) Gallatin with the 1956-57 Knicks. "If he's not the best sixth man right now," says Vancouver general manager Stu Jackson, "then I don't know who is."

Before this season Gatling was known mainly for being the league's only player with a steel plate in his head. His appearance and style made him seem even more unusual. With his headband, lefthanded jumper and gangly 230-pound frame, Gatling looks as if he's first team All-Gawky. But on the court he has a sneaky arsenal of spin moves and head fakes, surprising quickness and a reliable hook shot that often leaves defenders weak-kneed. "To me, he looks kind of frail," says Grizzlies swingman Blue Edwards. "But with his athletic ability he's able to take that giant step across the lane and throw up that ugly hook. He can get to the basket on anybody, and he's able to finish."

[Dirk]

Don't take what those who passionately root for losses say that personally. It's ok. Just like it's normal that some take issue with it, but while everyone has different feelings, at the end of the day, everyone ultimately wants to see their team 'win'. Some take joy in winning now because it's a result of some "underdogs" playing well, while others are just fixated on getting more ping pong balls that may allow the Mavs to get a better prospect in the draft. I think both positions are perfectly understandable and there's no need for any animosity.

It's a global thing around NBA fans. You have fan bases who are far far worse... take a look at the Knicks, the fans literally are rooting for losses. And so do a bunch of others... Bucks, Bulls... I blame the NBA. Because obviously when a team is beating the hottest team in the league with a guy from Argentina shining... no fan should be feeling guilty about 'winning'. But they do because the NBA rewards losing it seems or at least that's the perception most fans have.

And hey... no one can deny that this season is both surreal and hilarious. The Mavs played three terrible games, Nets/Suns/Raptors, everyone I would imagine was ready to then embark on the tank... and then boom... they beat the best team in the league since January.

The more the Mavs go younger... the more they win. Basically, what everyone would be advocating in November, thinking it would ensure player development + losses, is working the other way. Yes, the chance of these 'random young players' elevating the Mavs to a title is minimal... at the same time... it shows they're doing a good job of finding some talent and developing it. That's probably something better to have... than if we just watched a dumpster fire team... but had a top 5 pick. We can only hope that with whatever pick the Mavs end up... they find someone talented, because everyone can see that the Mavs can develop players.

Watch on YouTube

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

[Texas Chuck]

...

Dallas beats a good team but there's so much negativity here.

I think I'm excusing myself from this board for a while.

Hang around Bro. Those of who enjoy teams hustling, playing their asses off and winning in the process need you.

I guess I don't see the negativity. What I see is a reasonable difference of opinion. Some posters want the Mavs to just try and win every game possible. Simple, logical, fine. Other posters feel like this season is a lost cause, are frustrated because every season since the title has felt like that, and want the Mavs to be in a position to get the best draft pick possible towards eventually having a relevant team again.

Both perspectives should feel welcome to express their opinions here.

[2011Champs]

The league must go to a true lotto system. One ping pong ball per team. Good teams do not get punished for playing hard and winning while bad teams don't get rewarded for poor play, coaching and management. You get the same chance of a good pick or bad pick whether your team is 70-12, 41-41, 12-70.

[Teffer10]

Don't take what those who passionately root for losses say that personally. It's ok. Just like it's normal that some take issue with it, but while everyone has different feelings, at the end of the day, everyone ultimately wants to see their team 'win'. Some take joy in winning now because it's a result of some "underdogs" playing well, while others are just fixated on getting more ping pong balls that may allow the Mavs to get a better prospect in the draft. I think both positions are perfectly understandable and there's no need for any animosity.

It's a global thing around NBA fans. You have fan bases who are far far worse... take a look at the Knicks, the fans literally are rooting for losses. And so do a bunch of others... Bucks, Bulls... I blame the NBA. Because obviously when a team is beating the hottest team in the league with a guy from Argentina shining... no fan should be feeling guilty about 'winning'. But they do because the NBA rewards losing it seems or at least that's the perception most fans have.

And hey... no one can deny that this season is both surreal and hilarious. The Mavs played three terrible games, Nets/Suns/Raptors, everyone I would imagine was ready to then embark on the tank... and then boom... they beat the best team in the league since January.

The more the Mavs go younger... the more they win. Basically, what everyone would be advocating in November, thinking it would ensure player development + losses, is working the other way. Yes, the chance of these 'random young players' elevating the Mavs to a title is minimal... at the same time... it shows they're doing a good job of finding some talent and developing it. That's probably something better to have... than if we just watched a dumpster fire team... but had a top 5 pick. We can only hope that with whatever pick the Mavs end up... they find someone talented, because everyone can see that the Mavs can develop players.

Watch on YouTube

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

I don't see that as taking it personally. I try to stay neutral when it comes to rebuilding and want the high pick as much as anyone but when I read ugly things about a team that plays with class and is a class organization as a whole, I'm sorry but I have to defend crap like "incredibly dumb", "deserve to rot in mediocrity hell" and "sickening" when this team wins.

Can't help but wonder the direction a moral compass is pointing when I hear nonsense like that and anyone that would defend or support it.

[Dirk]

I don't see that as taking it personally. I try to stay neutral when it comes to rebuilding and want the high pick as much as anyone but when I read ugly things about a team that plays with class and is a class organization as a whole, I'm sorry but I have to defend crap like "incredibly dumb", "deserve to rot in mediocrity hell" and "sickening" when this team wins.

I totally agree with you on that. Some of that extreme stuff is probably all a result of frustrating and heat of the moment. No one should be deterred from posting because one or two are very invested in trying to get the most ping pong balls possible. I doubt anyone condones or agrees with those over the top things.

It is silly that fans would be upset over their team winning a game against a good team by playing hard and receiving unlikely contributions from another player project they added this year. This is not the same team from years past where a bunch of veterans/1 year players were chasing the 8th spot. That is why I said that those who are "all in on tanking" should also understand the abrasive reactions to their rants.

At the same time, everyone knows how the NBA works and how "logical" it is to prefer to "be really really bad" because the high pick offers a bigger hope of finding a franchise changing player, as opposed to finishing in no man's land. We have some users here who have been through a roller-coaster, they wanted the Mavs to win, then to lose... then to win. It's a very surreal season. But yeah, either way, people should still maintain good sense and be reasonable.

The Mavs have Barnes. Then they'll have Noel. Two (near) max slots. Then you have Curry expiring next year. You still have Matthews on the books 18M . 2017 FA is poor - it's unlikely to see the Mavs add any major piece. It is logical to see this year as "the best opportunity" to get a high pick/top prospect. It's not hard to imagine that based on what we've seen in 2017, the Mavericks will be a .500 team or slightly better, so for many they're just picturing a team that blew the chance of having that high pick this season and fearing a 'treadmill'. If we go across other teams in the Mavs position... everyone will notice that their fans are going through the same dilemma.

The Mavericks are a very unique case though. In November, everyone would probably love to hear that they were going to end the year playing a guy off the Nets d_league team, the other Curry, even Brussino... they're just winning because they're a class organization like you say. I think some of the "all out tankers" need to appreciate that more, because it's a sign of good things.

I think things get too extreme - ultimately what fans want and root for... has no bearing on what happens with the Mavs. Cuban/Carlisle aren't reading message boards or twitter to gauge fans feelings. The fans who enjoy this team competing aren't "happy with mediocrity" just like anyone should understand why the "all out tankers" are so passionate. Some fans lose sense... the Mavs are still in striking distance of the 8th seed... it's natural that they will try to win games.

Taking everything into consideration, I don't think there is any doubt that this Mavs season had some good points of interest. Probably better than if you had Barnes sucking, the rookies not showing anything special... and the Mavs with a top 5 pick. I don't live with "all or nothing". I don't live with "winning a title" on my head all the time. I'll be happy enough with good basketball played by a scrappy team. What's the other option? To sulk and be depressed because the Mavs don't try to lose? Some fans seem to live in a bubble where they believe they could run a team as if they could flat out tell the players to be bad or try to lose games. The formula is always the same - tank.

Like I said, I blame the NBA. I don't blame the fans. The NBA is a league where a single player can dominate so much and when you don't have one of those you basically have no shot. The prospect of having a top pick then becomes the holy grail for a large portion of fans. There are good teams out there, with established talent... that have no shot to win now and in the next few years. This is how miserable that league is. But what can you do..? Have 80% of the league just trying to lose, hoping they find the next Lebron? Or do you just do your best to develop your players and win games? The high pick doesn't guarantee a franchise talent and great players have been picked around the range the Mavs will be in the draft.

I know it's hard for many... but they really need to take a step back and just accept that the Mavericks are doing things well. Blame the Nuggets, the Blazers for not being much better. Blame the Wolves and their elite talent. If any of these teams with 'talent' lived up to their billing... then yeah... the Mavs would be far far away from the 8th seed... and everyone would probably join in on being mad if the Mavs were winning meaningless games... or happy if the Mavs were shutting players down and losing. As it is - the Mavs are just being professional. Can't fault a team for that.

[2011Champs]

The league must go to a true lotto system. One ping pong ball per team. Good teams do not get punished for playing hard and winning while bad teams don't get rewarded for poor play, coaching and management. You get the same chance of a good pick or bad pick whether your team is 70-12, 41-41, 12-70.

That's why this needs to happen^^^^

[Teffer10]

I don't see that as taking it personally. I try to stay neutral when it comes to rebuilding and want the high pick as much as anyone but when I read ugly things about a team that plays with class and is a class organization as a whole, I'm sorry but I have to defend crap like "incredibly dumb", "deserve to rot in mediocrity hell" and "sickening" when this team wins.

I totally agree with you on that. Some of that extreme stuff is probably all a result of frustrating and heat of the moment. No one should be deterred from posting because one or two are very invested in trying to get the most ping pong balls possible. I doubt anyone condones or agrees with those over the top things.

It is silly that fans would be upset over their team winning a game against a good team by playing hard and receiving unlikely contributions from another player project they added this year. This is not the same team from years past where a bunch of veterans/1 year players were chasing the 8th spot. That is why I said that those who are "all in on tanking" should also understand the abrasive reactions to their rants.

At the same time, everyone knows how the NBA works and how "logical" it is to prefer to "be really really bad" because the high pick offers a bigger hope of finding a franchise changing player, as opposed to finishing in no man's land. We have some users here who have been through a roller-coaster, they wanted the Mavs to win, then to lose... then to win. It's a very surreal season. But yeah, either way, people should still maintain good sense and be reasonable.

The Mavs have Barnes. Then they'll have Noel. Two (near) max slots. Then you have Curry expiring next year. You still have Matthews on the books 18M . 2017 FA is poor - it's unlikely to see the Mavs add any major piece. It is logical to see this year as "the best opportunity" to get a high pick/top prospect. It's not hard to imagine that based on what we've seen in 2017, the Mavericks will be a .500 team or slightly better, so for many they're just picturing a team that blew the chance of having that high pick this season and fearing a 'treadmill'. If we go across other teams in the Mavs position... everyone will notice that their fans are going through the same dilemma.

The Mavericks are a very unique case though. In November, everyone would probably love to hear that they were going to end the year playing a guy off the Nets d_league team, the other Curry, even Brussino... they're just winning because they're a class organization like you say. I think some of the "all out tankers" need to appreciate that more, because it's a sign of good things.

I think things get too extreme - ultimately what fans want and root for... has no bearing on what happens with the Mavs. Cuban/Carlisle aren't reading message boards or twitter to gauge fans feelings. The fans who enjoy this team competing aren't "happy with mediocrity" just like anyone should understand why the "all out tankers" are so passionate. Some fans lose sense... the Mavs are still in striking distance of the 8th seed... it's natural that they will try to win games.

Taking everything into consideration, I don't think there is any doubt that this Mavs season had some good points of interest. Probably better than if you had Barnes sucking, the rookies not showing anything special... and the Mavs with a top 5 pick. I don't live with "all or nothing". I don't live with "winning a title" on my head all the time. I'll be happy enough with good basketball played by a scrappy team. What's the other option? To sulk and be depressed because the Mavs don't try to lose? Some fans seem to live in a bubble where they believe they could run a team as if they could flat out tell the players to be bad or try to lose games. The formula is always the same - tank.

Like I said, I blame the NBA. I don't blame the fans. The NBA is a league where a single player can dominate so much and when you don't have one of those you basically have no shot. The prospect of having a top pick then becomes the holy grail for a large portion of fans. There are good teams out there, with established talent... that have no shot to win now and in the next few years. This is how miserable that league is. But what can you do..? Have 80% of the league just trying to lose, hoping they find the next Lebron? Or do you just do your best to develop your players and win games? The high pick doesn't guarantee a franchise talent and great players have been picked around the range the Mavs will be in the draft.

I know it's hard for many... but they really need to take a step back and just accept that the Mavericks are doing things well. Blame the Nuggets, the Blazers for not being much better. Blame the Wolves and their elite talent. If any of these teams with 'talent' lived up to their billing... then yeah... the Mavs would be far far away from the 8th seed... and everyone would probably join in on being mad if the Mavs were winning meaningless games... or happy if the Mavs were shutting players down and losing. As it is - the Mavs are just being professional. Can't fault a team for that.

I completely agree with this and I have no problems with reading suggestions on strategies to yield a high draft pick. I don't even mind if people are passionate about losing just to get that pick and in fact I welcome it even though I passionately disagree. But my reply only addressed the manner in which it was presented by a board member.

I understand today's NBA vs the old. I'm probably older than most people on this board and certainly remember back in my late teens to the day when Ro was drafted when I became a Mavs fan and moved to Dallas shortly after. I certainly remember the highs and the lows and don't want to go through another 90s situation.

I don't think people realize what they are wishing for when they are wishing for losses. Some of us see the 90s all over again when a losing strategy became the norm. It suggests that everyone (coaches, owner, players, etc....) should be terrible at what they do which leads to little hope for anything other than chasing that draft pick. Once that mindset becomes embedded into the culture of the organization it is very difficult to turn around to something positive without new leadership which most likely would include new ownership.

Ask yourselves, is Cuban really that bad of an owner and do you really want him to become less competitive or sell to someone who is less competitive? That is essentially what those who want to become a losing organization/culture is hoping for.

[JamesConway]

I completely agree with this and I have no problems with reading suggestions on strategies to yield a high draft pick. I don't even mind if people are passionate about losing just to get that pick and in fact I welcome it even though I passionately disagree. But my reply only addressed the manner in which it was presented by a board member.

And I think you could seriously take a step back from this after now your third or fourth post on that front. I even addressed it an hour afterwards and clarified that it was in the heat of the moment. Give me a break man, one post like that isn't the end of the world especially not in a GT...

[JamesConway]

I don't think people realize what they are wishing for when they are wishing for losses. Some of us see the 90s all over again when a losing strategy became the norm. It suggests that everyone (coaches, owner, players, etc....) should be terrible at what they do which leads to little hope for anything other than chasing that draft pick. Once that mindset becomes embedded into the culture of the organization it is very difficult to turn around to something positive without new leadership which most likely would include new ownership.

And re the rest of your post: I think this is what a lot of this comes down to. You're projecting your bad experiences from 20+ years ago back into this thing and mix it up with quite a lot of hyperbolic statements. I don't think many posters here suggest a multi-year tank and I also don't think it is fair to Cuban, to Carlisle, to Dirk, who are all proven winners, to be compared to what went on back in those darker days. That's selling those guys short and by quite a lot if you ask me. This was/is pretty much a perfect storm-type of opportunity. All the injuries, the rough start, the fact that we're still far behind a playoff spot (DEN just won again against a top 6 team with the Clippers btw) -- I simply don't see how going for the pick this extremely late with all those factors would have any groundbreaking effects on the long-term health of this franchise. We're literally talking about four more weeks. That's nothing in the big picture and will not suddenly turn us into the Sixers and if it does anyway then our culture was never anything of substance anyway.

I mean can you name one specific moment/stretch where we've seen actual proof of a loosing culture kicking in? Even earlier in the season? The one thing I've heard was that AJ Hammons was late for a DLeague game once, but he's completely out of the rotation anyway and he's also somewhat of a 'known quantity' (in a negative way) in that regard anyway given what we've heard about him prior to the draft anyway. Then Noel was late one single time, but he immediatedly got benched and responded exceptionally well afterwards on the court with terrific play.

I'd trust Carlisle/Dirk/Cuban/Wes/Harris/Barea to keep that stuff more than just in check even if we were to drop a few more games.

[Teffer10]

I don't think people realize what they are wishing for when they are wishing for losses. Some of us see the 90s all over again when a losing strategy became the norm. It suggests that everyone (coaches, owner, players, etc....) should be terrible at what they do which leads to little hope for anything other than chasing that draft pick. Once that mindset becomes embedded into the culture of the organization it is very difficult to turn around to something positive without new leadership which most likely would include new ownership.

And re the rest of your post: I think this is what a lot of this comes down to. You're projecting your bad experiences from 20+ years ago back into this thing and mix it up with quite a lot of hyperbolic statements. I don't think many posters here suggest a multi-year tank and I also don't think it is fair to Cuban, to Carlisle, to Dirk, who are all proven winners, to be compared to what went on back in those darker days. That's selling those guys short and by quite a lot if you ask me. This was/is pretty much a perfect storm-type of opportunity. All the injuries, the rough start, the fact that we're still far behind a playoff spot (DEN just won again against a top 6 team with the Clippers btw) -- I simply don't see how going for the pick this extremely late with all those factors would have any groundbreaking effects on the long-term health of this franchise. We're literally talking about four more weeks. That's nothing in the big picture and will not suddenly turn us into the Sixers and if it does anyway then our culture was never anything of substance anyway.

I mean can you name one specific moment/stretch where we've seen actual proof of a loosing culture kicking in? Even earlier in the season? The one thing I've heard was that AJ Hammons was late for a DLeague game once, but he's completely out of the rotation anyway and he's also somewhat of a 'known quantity' (in a negative way) in that regard anyway given what we've heard about him prior to the draft anyway. Then Noel was late one single time, but he immediatedly got benched and responded exceptionally well afterwards on the court with terrific play.

I'd trust Carlisle/Dirk/Cuban/Wes/Harris/Barea to keep that stuff more than just in check even if we were to drop a few more games.

Dude we're good as far as I'm concerned. When you say something like that in the heat of the moment you better expect a response just like if I say something outrageous (and I have) I expect the same.

No hard feelings on this end.

[CoachJimCarrey]

I don't even know what I'm rooting for anymore.... Just watching and waiting to see where the chips fall. But at least the team is entertaining again!