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Rosenthal: Jays, Mets trade may be expanding beyond Dickey

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Post#501 Re: Rosenthal: Jays, Mets trade may be expand
Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:30 am by hyper316

it's hard to keep things quiet on the newly crowned Cy Young winner

getting Dickey is a win-now move for the next 3 years. TDA may not be able to produce big league leagues in 1-2 years. With Bautista in his prime now, I applaud AA for his willingness to trade key prospects for a chance to win now.

AA has done a fine job stocking the farms, my confidence is in him to continue to do so. now with the chance to upgrade the team with a CY YOUNG winner, I'd do this 100x over again to win now. think of the excitement in the club house when the GM is pulling off major trades and ownership stepping up with the money. it's going to be a complete culture change and winning is on the players' minds.
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Post#502 Re: Rosenthal: Jays, Mets trade may be expand
Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:32 am by SharoneWright

^
I sure hope Bautista heals. :pray:
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Post#503 Re: Rosenthal: Jays, Mets trade may be expand
Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:17 am by Tyrone Slothrop

mapko81 wrote:Why is the Ninja letting this info leak?


Because a trade involves two teams, and the other team is a New York based team that employs JP Ricciardi that would stand to benefit from leaking information to drive up Dickey's value.
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Post#504 Re: Blue Jays "serious suitors" for
Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:25 am by Tyrone Slothrop

acemann wrote:im not crazy about ike davis.


Nor should you be. He can't hit left-handed pitching, so there would be no reason at all to have him on this team.
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Post#505 Re: Blue Jays "serious suitors" for
Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:28 am by DeenNY31

lol you guys are delusional if you think we are giving up ike or niese

Its gonna be dickey and maybe someone like murphy, duda, and/or parnell for D'arnaud, gose +
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Post#506 Re: Blue Jays "serious suitors" for
Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:06 am by RedArmy

TheseSicklyKeys wrote:
RedArmy wrote:
the proposed deal grew in size upon Toronto's willingness to include D'Arnaud, the game's best catching prospect.


If you tell me AA had a chance to deal a certain man named JPA instead.


What makes you think that could have been the case?


The 'proposed deal' involving Dickey grew, which means Mets GM weren't hellbent on D'Arnaud and was willing to listen. Do AA love his boy JPA that much??
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Post#507 Re: Blue Jays "serious suitors" for
Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:29 am by distracted

RedArmy wrote:The 'proposed deal' involving Dickey grew, which means Mets GM weren't hellbent on D'Arnaud and was willing to listen. Do AA love his boy JPA that much??


Proposed by whom though?

If the Mets proposed Dickey for TDA, that's still the proposed deal. It could have grown because AA wasn't willing to give up TDA for Dickey alone, but there may be some other way to find appropriate value for both sides by including others.
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Post#508 Re: Blue Jays "serious suitors" for
Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:44 am by Raider917

are the angels talking with dickey as well?
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Post#509 Re: Rosenthal: Jays, Mets trade may be expand
Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:18 am by The_Hater

hyper316 wrote:
I don't think Jays need another rotation SP in Harvey. There's just no space.

Johnson
Dickey
Morrow
Buehrle
Romero

Sure, you can say Jays need pitching depth in case of injuries, but not young arms like Harvey that need a starting role to grow. Injury promoted SP are for the likes of CV and Happ, who really belongs in the bullpen and do spot starts. It's better off for the Jays to stash their young arms in low A who are 3-4 years away from big leagues. Look at how the Rays bring up their SP, let the young arms develop and dont rush them.


You recognize the importance of rotation depth and then argue that there's no space? After watching Romero last season I'm not sure why everyone is so convinced that he'll bounce back. Then there's Morrow and Johnson who always have trouble playing 6 straight months without visiting the IL.

Either way, you can never have too much starting pitching and I would definitely argue that the Jays don't currently have enough depth at the position.
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Post#510 Re: Rosenthal: Jays, Mets trade may be expand
Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:36 am by Komodo

I realize d'Arnaud is MLB-ready but isn't his loss somewhat offset if we draft a good position player with our top-10 pick? Of course the issue is JP's lackluster ability behind the plate and that's imperative considering our quality of pitching, but the pick is certainly a major plus, no?
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Post#511 Re: Blue Jays "serious suitors" for
Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:05 am by The_Hater

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan
Teams, as we reported, were looking over medical information of players, a formality. Unless something very odd happens this deal gets done.
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Post#512 Re: Rosenthal: Jays, Mets trade may be expand
Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:05 am by Lateral Quicks

Komodo wrote:I realize d'Arnaud is MLB-ready but isn't his loss somewhat offset if we draft a good position player with our top-10 pick? Of course the issue is JP's lackluster ability behind the plate and that's imperative considering our quality of pitching, but the pick is certainly a major plus, no?


The issue is JP's ability behind the plate AND at the plate. While d'Arnaud hasn't yet shown he is a major league player, the overwhelming consensus is that he would be an upgrade over Arencibia. With a year or two of experience, he could possibly be a major upgrade. Personally I think that upgrade at C would prove more beneficial to the team than a short-term upgrade at SP provided by Dickey.
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Post#513 Re: Rosenthal: Jays, Mets trade may be expand
Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:18 am by whysoserious

I know Dickey is coming off a Cy Young but i can't seem to understand why the value is so high for a 38 year old player having a career year?

Prior to last year he'd be considered solid, not spectacular but one season at his age is driving up the price to this level?

I'd rather give up the prospects for someone like Felix if he's in play or if Tampa was to move Shields or Price (even though a division trade is not likely). That's where I'd target trading that level of players for a guy, not a 38 year old off a career year.

I'd rather they go out and sign Morneau, call it a day and see what you have. Look at Miami, what if this thing blows up on you, now you've given up everything in one off-season and are stuck. I'd rather the Jays wait and see what they have and still have upgrade options at the trade deadline.
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Post#514 Re: Rosenthal: Jays, Mets trade may be expand
Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:30 am by The_Hater

whysoserious wrote:I know Dickey is coming off a Cy Young but i can't seem to understand why the value is so high for a 38 year old player having a career year?



We don't know what the entire deal is so it's impossible to say what the 'price' is for Dickey just yet.

He did have a career year but the more popular 'one year wonder' argument that others like to drop isn't very accurate. The guy abandoned most of conventional pitches and became a full time knuckleballer just 3 seasons ago and has been nothing short of a frontline starter/ace since that time. So I'm not sure why people expect him to pitch poorly when he's never pitched poorly as a knuckleballer. And looking at is pitching history prior to the past 3 seasons is pointless, people might as well be looking at a completely different guy.

Also, considering last season was his best season of the 3, one could argue that now that he's concentrating on his knuckleball full-time he's actually improving. As odd as that would seem for a pitcher his age.
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Post#515 Re: Rosenthal: Jays, Mets trade may be expand
Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:32 am by evilRyu

oh man.. so this seems to really have strong legs.. at first i was very skeptical at the rumor, but now there's way too much smoke for it not to be legitimately close
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Post#516 Re: Rosenthal: Jays, Mets trade may be expand
Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:36 am by satyr9

evilRyu wrote:oh man.. so this seems to really have strong legs.. at first i was very skeptical at the rumor, but now there's way too much smoke for it not to be legitimately close


*cough* Yu Darvish *cough*

Dont' get me wrong, I'm totally with you on this, but this is exactly what got us talked into all this last time too. Twitter is your enemy, you must be vigilant and never forget.

If there was a suspense movie about terrorists trying to destroy internet infrastructure to destroy the twitter that it gave birth to, I'd nominate it for every Oscar possible, sight unseen.
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Post#517 Re: Rosenthal: Jays, Mets trade may be expand
Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:38 am by BigLeagueChew

whysoserious wrote:I know Dickey is coming off a Cy Young but i can't seem to understand why the value is so high for a 38 year old player having a career year?

Prior to last year he'd be considered solid, not spectacular but one season at his age is driving up the price to this level?

I'd rather give up the prospects for someone like Felix if he's in play or if Tampa was to move Shields or Price (even though a division trade is not likely). That's where I'd target trading that level of players for a guy, not a 38 year old off a career year.

I'd rather they go out and sign Morneau, call it a day and see what you have. Look at Miami, what if this thing blows up on you, now you've given up everything in one off-season and are stuck. I'd rather the Jays wait and see what they have and still have upgrade options at the trade deadline.


The trade price also goes up when players like Dempster get the money they are getting and Greinke is a great pitcher but I don't see why he deserves that big of a contract. So if we did trade for Dickey we get a Cy Young winner( I know Cy Young's don't mean everything) but we get him @ $5 mil next year and maybe Ryan Dempster money if he signs an extension.

There was rumours going on the Jays site that Trumbo and Bourjos were offered to the Mets and they said no, so whoever we give up it's likely going to be a fairly big price to them.

There is a write up on fangraphs, for what it's worth, saying that Dickey has been as good as Price the last 3 years.

Code: Select all

Season   Name   IP   K/BB   HR/9   BABIP   LOB%   ERA-   FIP-   xFIP-
2010   David Price   208   2.38   0.65   0.270   79%   69   86   92
2010   R.A. Dickey   174   2.48   0.67   0.276   77%   73   94   94
2011   David Price   224   3.46   0.88   0.281   73%   90   86   82
2011   R.A. Dickey   208   2.48   0.78   0.278   75%   89   101   103
2012   David Price   211   3.47   0.68   0.285   81%   66   77   75
2012   R.A. Dickey   233   4.26   0.92   0.275   80%   72   87   84


http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/r-a-dickey-and-the-myth-of-one-great-year/

When it's broken down like that, maybe d'Arnaud being traded would eventually be easier to get over but it would be tough letting him go and watching Arencibia instead.
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Post#518 Re: Rosenthal: Jays, Mets trade may be expand
Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:44 am by evilRyu

satyr9 wrote:
evilRyu wrote:oh man.. so this seems to really have strong legs.. at first i was very skeptical at the rumor, but now there's way too much smoke for it not to be legitimately close


*cough* Yu Darvish *cough*

Dont' get me wrong, I'm totally with you on this, but this is exactly what got us talked into all this last time too. Twitter is your enemy, you must be vigilant and never forget.

If there was a suspense movie about terrorists trying to destroy internet infrastructure to destroy the twitter that it gave birth to, I'd nominate it for every Oscar possible, sight unseen.

good point.. after that Darvish fiasco, i learned not to be more careful when it comes to these. However, AA and co. did mention that they learned from that experience in terms of "managing fans' expectations". Wouldn't AA come out and publicly put the kibosh on these rumors if they are false?
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Post#519 Re: Blue Jays "serious suitors" for
Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:45 am by raps4589

wow so were gonna deal the best catching prospect for 1 year of ra dickey... guess were going for it this year.
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Post#520 Re: Blue Jays "serious suitors" for
Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:46 am by raps4589

torontoaces04 wrote:D'Arnaud
Gose
Lind
Norris
Nessy


For

Dickey
Niese
Murphy
Parnell


Sign me up!!!!!


thats a deal i would do instantly
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