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Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:38 am
by s e n s i
easy to not get too worked up about this series given the O's are straight up better than us, which was already quite evident months ago. still, always a tough pill to swallow when the trash birds own you.
that said, i don't think they make it out of the ALDS or even push it to 5 games with that stunningly mediocre rotation against a lineup that actually knows what they're doing up there. no other team in the playoff picture is getting carved up by dean kremer or kyle gibson, let's not kid ourselves.
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:39 am
by JN
mintsa wrote:Couldn’t find any decent tickets for the weekend or they were just too much.
I ended up picking up 4 for Monday night.
Most likely who is pitching Monday night ??
Was looking at Sunday / Monday games now as I will likely be in Toronto for a few days. Heading to Sunday's game by myself, and Monday with a friend.
Not many tickets for Sunday and they are more expensive. Certainly more choice for Monday.
As I have a leg issue, looking for a right side aisle seat on Sunday. Looks like there is about 2 such seats available in the lower bowl right now.
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:49 am
by spykelee
As Jaime said, Vlad with 1 home run and 7 RBIs this month. The only thing he should be hitting is the pine.
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:58 am
by Raps in 4
And1Skip wrote:Randle McMurphy wrote:Belt is really the only guy on the team with a good approach at the plate. What the hell happened to this team?
Davis Schneider on Monday told Gibby on his show that Belt told him that he really liked his approach at the plate (have a plan, pick a pitch) and to keep doing it. Too bad he doesn't play.
Hire Belt as our hitting coach.
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:09 am
by SharoneWright
spykelee wrote:As Jaime said, Vlad with 1 home run and 7 RBIs this month. The only thing he should be hitting is the pine.
Random sample of home runs/at bat 2023:
Schneider: 0.1
Jansen: 0.05929
Belt: 0.04983
Biggio: 0.04040~
Guerrero: 0.03766
Varsho: 0.03513
Craig Biggio more likely to go deep coming to the plate this year than Vlad.
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:13 am
by Madvillainy2004
Vlads season is creeping up on my most disappointing Jays season ever for a single player (that didn't have some insane injury).
Well Manoah is also up there lmao but man it's just awful to watch this guy. Praying for a September hot streak so he can somewhat salvage this season.
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:25 am
by Randle McMurphy
spykelee wrote:As Jaime said, Vlad with 1 home run and 7 RBIs this month. The only thing he should be hitting is the pine.
Even hitting that bad with a broken swing and terrible approach, he's still clearly one of the team's better hitters over that time anyway. That's how bad this offense is.
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:43 am
by C Court
Randle McMurphy wrote:I can't wait until Chapman is off this team.
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:11 am
by greekman
SharoneWright wrote:spykelee wrote:As Jaime said, Vlad with 1 home run and 7 RBIs this month. The only thing he should be hitting is the pine.
Random sample of home runs/at bat 2023:
Schneider: 0.1
Jansen: 0.05929
Belt: 0.04983
Biggio: 0.04040~
Guerrero: 0.03766
Varsho: 0.03513
Craig Biggio more likely to go deep coming to the plate this year than Vlad.
cavan biggio
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 6:15 am
by SharoneWright
greekman wrote:cavan biggio
him too
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 1:31 pm
by Hottie McShotty
This team does not deserve to be in the playoffs. Clean slate for next season, and let's hope for the best!
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:00 pm
by Fairview4Life
The best pitching and defense in baseball deserves to be in the playoffs.
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:48 pm
by Hottie McShotty
Fairview4Life wrote:The best pitching and defense in baseball deserves to be in the playoffs.
Not when your hitting is one of the worst. You need to score runs to win games and it takes all 3 to win a playoff series.
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:01 pm
by dagger
Sometimes you have to manufacture runs and the Jays just don't do it. As Chris Black noted on Twitter, in the ninth inning last night the Jays showed no pitch selectivity, or they might have been able to get a runner on board so the tying run comes to the plate. This is a recurring theme - everyone hits for themselves too much, too much power focus without a plan that still isn't yielding the desired power results. This team is struggling to get even one player to 20 homers for the season, which is simply rdiculous. Bo might make it, Vlad has a an outside chance if he can do better than a homer a month. But 25 looks out of the question. Varsho or Belt might overtake Chapman, which is sad. (I was kind of hoping that Chapman's contract year would be more productive, to the point of having me regret his leaving; but truly now, I won't - Orelvis Martinez is flourishing, and it's time to move on with him at 3B, perhaps in a R/L platoon with Addison Barger.)
I was struck last night watching the GameCast of Buffalo-Syracuse by one moment. Top of the ninth inning, the Bison had a three run lead and got a runner on first and second, with Tyler Heinemann at the plate. I don't know what happened, but while in the batter's box, before the first pitch, he gets ejected. So Spencer Horwitz is sent up to pitch hit - he was on an off day – with an 0-1 count (automatic strike for the delay incurred by Heinneman in getting booted.) Horwitz hasn't swung a bat in hours. He's probably the hottest bat on the roster right now, but rather than trying to do too much, he works a walk, moving the runners up. He's good at knowing the zone. After an out, that turns over the lineup to the bigger bats who knock in two more runs. It's little things like that, playing within one's self, that the Jays seem to lack.
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:35 pm
by COY0607
Baffling that Schneider isn’t getting some playing time at this point
Not much else to be said. Offense sucks, pitching has been near perfect over the past few months, unlikely that continues as this team falls further behind in the wildcard
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 4:34 pm
by Cyrus
To me with Vlad and others either they are being over-coached or over-fed information with regards to hitting, and it's become a bit of paralysis of information, and conflicting information that over ruling his gut and what got him here.
Remember last year when Bo Bichette was struggling, and he said it was partly due to too much "Analytics" being fed to him, it caused him to trust himself/his instincts less, then he said F all the noise, and went back to what brought him here, and he went on tear in the last 4-5 weeks which basically brought him to his typical stat lines, otherwise it was going to be down year for him. They Analytics/hitting instructors have all pretty much left Bo alone this year.
Its one thing when you have 1 guy struggling, but it's soo many guys, that something is up, Vlad, Kirk, Varsho until recently, Chapman, Espinal, even Springer.
Infact who is having a better 2023 than 2022? Bo, Whit and Kevin Kiermaier, and I guess Belt compared to his 2022. Everyone else pretty much their AVG/SLG/OBP is down...that's not just oh player is struggling, the information is either overwhelming these guys, or coaches are just doing poor job with the information and coaching.
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:10 pm
by spykelee
Cyrus wrote:To me with Vlad and others either they are being over-coached or over-fed information with regards to hitting, and it's become a bit of paralysis of information, and conflicting information that over ruling his gut and what got him here.
Remember last year when Bo Bichette was struggling, and he said it was partly due to too much "Analytics" being fed to him, it caused him to trust himself/his instincts less, then he said F all the noise, and went back to what brought him here, and he went on tear in the last 4-5 weeks which basically brought him to his typical stat lines, otherwise it was going to be down year for him. They Analytics/hitting instructors have all pretty much left Bo alone this year.
Its one thing when you have 1 guy struggling, but it's soo many guys, that something is up, Vlad, Kirk, Varsho until recently, Chapman, Espinal, even Springer.
Infact who is having a better 2023 than 2022? Bo, Whit and Kevin Kiermaier, and I guess Belt compared to his 2022. Everyone else pretty much their AVG/SLG/OBP is down...that's not just oh player is struggling, the information is either overwhelming these guys, or coaches are just doing poor job with the information and coaching.
Sounds alot like the Raptors too. I do tend to think that alot of analytics are for coaches and management and fans. Players play. More instincts and less thinking and analyzing.
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:19 pm
by Harry Palmer
spykelee wrote:Cyrus wrote:To me with Vlad and others either they are being over-coached or over-fed information with regards to hitting, and it's become a bit of paralysis of information, and conflicting information that over ruling his gut and what got him here.
Remember last year when Bo Bichette was struggling, and he said it was partly due to too much "Analytics" being fed to him, it caused him to trust himself/his instincts less, then he said F all the noise, and went back to what brought him here, and he went on tear in the last 4-5 weeks which basically brought him to his typical stat lines, otherwise it was going to be down year for him. They Analytics/hitting instructors have all pretty much left Bo alone this year.
Its one thing when you have 1 guy struggling, but it's soo many guys, that something is up, Vlad, Kirk, Varsho until recently, Chapman, Espinal, even Springer.
Infact who is having a better 2023 than 2022? Bo, Whit and Kevin Kiermaier, and I guess Belt compared to his 2022. Everyone else pretty much their AVG/SLG/OBP is down...that's not just oh player is struggling, the information is either overwhelming these guys, or coaches are just doing poor job with the information and coaching.
Sounds alot like the Raptors too. I do tend to think that alot of analytics are for coaches and management and fans. Players play. More instincts and less thinking and analyzing.
If anything it’s that it has been well established that different people learn differently. So I don’t think the problem is the analysis, but trying to teach it in a way that will only work for some people, and for others it will at best not register, at worst frustrate them/make them feel stupid, and generally erode their self-confidence. I feel over time baseball will catch up to that, but meantime it’s a boon to many but a burden to the rest.
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:35 pm
by -MetA4-
Cyrus wrote:To me with Vlad and others either they are being over-coached or over-fed information with regards to hitting, and it's become a bit of paralysis of information, and conflicting information that over ruling his gut and what got him here.
Sure, it's possible. But this is just a guess that you have no proof on. For example, I would very easily challenge that Vlad might in fact be uncoachable and his problem might be that he doesn't listen at all as opposed to him being "overly coached". He comes from a big prominent 'baseball family' and his uncle has been his personal hitting coach since childhood. I would wager that the Blue Jays are at the whim at whatever his family is feeding him, and as is often the case with young stars, I would bet that he's being fed a lot of "you're the best, don't let them change you" type BS which is a normal response from yes-men for struggling players.
I don't see any obvious mechanical change in his swing or any suggestion that they are playing Frankenstein and trying to alter him on the fly. If anything, he looks like a guy who is completely undisciplined and who swings with the belief that he can make contact with any pitch. Of course he is in fact talented enough to make contact, hence why you're seeing a ton of hard hit ground balls from him. That doesn't look like "over-coaching" to me.
Re: GT: Jays @ Orioles, Aug 22-24
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:53 pm
by Cyrus
-MetA4- wrote:Cyrus wrote:To me with Vlad and others either they are being over-coached or over-fed information with regards to hitting, and it's become a bit of paralysis of information, and conflicting information that over ruling his gut and what got him here.
Sure, it's possible. But this is just a guess that you have no proof on. For example, I would very easily challenge that Vlad might in fact be uncoachable and his problem might be that he doesn't listen at all as opposed to him being "overly coached". He comes from a big prominent 'baseball family' and his uncle has been his personal hitting coach since childhood. I would wager that the Blue Jays are at the whim at whatever his family is feeding him, and as is often the case with young stars, I would bet that he's being fed a lot of "you're the best, don't let them change you" type BS which is a normal response from yes-men for struggling players.
I don't see any obvious mechanical change in his swing or any suggestion that they are playing Frankenstein and trying to alter him on the fly. If anything, he looks like a guy who is completely undisciplined and who swings with the belief that he can make contact with any pitch. Of course he is in fact talented enough to make contact, hence why you're seeing a ton of hard hit ground balls from him. That doesn't look like "over-coaching" to me.
That could all be true but then why is it basically every player in comparison to their 2022 year (Besides Bo, Whit, Belt and KK) are ALL having a worse year. I would believe it more so if it was like just say Vlad and 1 other guy, while everyone else maintaining their typical avg, but basically you have 10 hitters (Some of them part time like Espinal, Calvin, etc.) that are hitting by almost every metric worse than they did in 2022.