Can David Cooper be that 1B/DH that we're looking for

[Lateral Quicks]

I trust Adam Lind to hit RHP at the MLB level way more than I trust David Cooper to be anything valuable at all. And that says a lot considering I find Lind to be just about as useless a major leaguer as there is.

I'd take Cooper over Lind as a full-time regular for sure. It's a tougher call in a platoon, but I'd probably take him over Lind there, too.

Cooper 1/12th the cost and figures to put up comparable or better numbers. As long as Cooper isn't asked to play defense he can perform well enough for this team.

[Waylon Mercy]

Dude, that was my entire point. He did win over the 1B/DH job before he got injured.

On a horrible team going nowhere that was injury riddled.... But how many people since the season
has ended have said David Cooper has to be an everyday player he's earned the right? nobody.

We are not expecting Rogers to get a future 1B/DH HOF in his prime but I'm sure they will do
everything in their power to upgrade one of the few holes on this team.

Im not sure if its hit some of you guys what's going on around here yet lol

[The_Hater]

I trust Adam Lind to hit RHP at the MLB level way more than I trust David Cooper to be anything valuable at all. And that says a lot considering I find Lind to be just about as useless a major leaguer as there is.

I'd take Cooper over Lind as a full-time regular for sure. It's a tougher call in a platoon, but I'd probably take him over Lind there, too.

Cooper 1/12th the cost and figures to put up comparable or better numbers. As long as Cooper isn't asked to play defense he can perform well enough for this team.

Not me. Even while hitting 300, Coopers numbers were really hollow last season. Terrible walk total and middling power. He only hit 9 HR's while winning the AAA batting title and was on pace for about 15 last season. Pretty punchless .300 hitter for a corner infielder/DH type.

I'm not writing off Cooper completely like Randle but I certainly wouldn't hand him the keys to the DH job in 2013. I think he's a huge longshot at best.

[Hendrix]

The problem is that at $120 million payroll we have to realize that you can't have all-stars at every position.

Is there anything out there saying we are up against a a glass ceiling, and have no more resources left? We only really need 2 more needs for players. They don't even need to be all that great, just a #5 SP, and a DH/1b better than Lind or Cooper (which isn't much).

Lind and Cooper have awful production between them. If these 2 are playing a position, it needs to be something that's addressed with whatever resources we have left.

Adam Lind has shown pretty consistently over the past 3 seasons that he's a .250/.300/.425 guy who absolutely can't hit lefties. He's is one of the worst 1B/DH option in the league.

Do you want a platoon option at DH for next year with Lind and Rajai Davis? To me that's a lot more depressing than rolling out Cooper and his pretty consistent line every day.

For this team right now, the best case that we could do would be to take Lind's contract. I'd guess that any money saved there is going to be put into the starting rotation and not at DH.

I would rather not have have Rajai/Lind, but atleast Rajai has shown to his .800 ops against lefties over the last 2 years combined and provides some speed on the bases. Which compliments Lind's ability to hit RHP's,


Imo, the best situation, with the least use of resources, would be to go out, and get Jonny Gomes to platoon with Lind.


Gomes has put up a career .894 ops against lefties over his career, and a .974 ops against lefties last year.
Lind, you can probably expect something in the .800 range for OPS against righties.

Between the 2 of them with a good manager that can run a well disciplined platoon you should be able to get some pretty decent production out of the DH position, without spending a lot of resources. At the minimum that's something we should be doing in a year that we are attempting to contend, rather than leaving a glaring hole at DH and gambling on Cooper.

[Lateral Quicks]

I trust Adam Lind to hit RHP at the MLB level way more than I trust David Cooper to be anything valuable at all. And that says a lot considering I find Lind to be just about as useless a major leaguer as there is.

I'd take Cooper over Lind as a full-time regular for sure. It's a tougher call in a platoon, but I'd probably take him over Lind there, too.

Cooper 1/12th the cost and figures to put up comparable or better numbers. As long as Cooper isn't asked to play defense he can perform well enough for this team.

Not me. Even while hitting 300, Coopers numbers were really hollow last season. Terrible walk total and middling power. He only hit 9 HR's while winning the AAA batting title and was on pace for about 15 last season. Pretty punchless .300 hitter for a corner infielder/DH type.

I'm not writing off Cooper completely like Randle but I certainly wouldn't hand him the keys to the DH job in 2013. I think he's a huge longshot at best.

The point I'm making here is that on this team, David Cooper is more than sufficient. If they didn't have a Reyes-Melky-Bautista-Encarnacion-Lawrie-Rasmus top 6, they'd need more power from the DH. They do.

[Waylon Mercy]

The point I'm making here is that on this team, David Cooper is more than sufficient. If they didn't have a Reyes-Melky-Bautista-Encarnacion-Lawrie-Rasmus top 6, they'd need more power from the DH. They do.

I think what it boils down to is you guys are putting to much stock into a small sample size
and projections....Taking it for granted that Cooper can hit .290 or .300 in the AL East for
an entire season while ignoring the other flaws in his game.

[Garmfay]

While waiting for Adam lind to hit after 2 and a half years of awful baseball with no work ethic (doesn't workout in offseason)

[Mad-Eye Moody]

I don't want to see David Cooper as the starting DH on this team. He is the worst defensive first baseman I've seen in a long time, and a mediocre hitter.

If the Jays plan to contend (and they obviously do given the recent moves), we can't be going into 2013 with David Cooper as the DH. I'd rather have Rajai Davis at that spot since he at least brings speed.

Ideally, you'd want a bigger upgrade. But who's available? Ortiz is off the list, and the rest of the options are more or less Cooper types.

I'd be okay with a platoon at 1B or DH (depending on where EE plays). Lind had an .800 OPS against RHP last season. Pair him with a Gomes or someone else that can hit .800 OPS against LHP, and we have our DH rotation for 2013.

[baulderdash77]

I don't want to see David Cooper as the starting DH on this team. He is the worst defensive first baseman I've seen in a long time, and a mediocre hitter.

As a primary DH he doesn't have to field right? EE is the starting 1B at this point and he's perfectly fine fielding there. Cooper would only be a spot 1B with EE on board.

[Hendrix]

I'm having trouble understanding why you are advocating Cooper to tell you the truth. To me, the order of best possible options is something like....

1) Spend money on a big time free agent. (cost's most money)
2) Spend money on a guy that can hit LHP, and platoon him with Lind (costs a a little bit of money)
3) Platoon Lind and someone in the organization that can hit LHP like Rajai. (costs no money)
4) Play Cooper full time (costs most money)
5) Play Lind Full time (costs no money)

I'm not really seeing any reason to advocate for Cooper. Obviously the best option for us as fans (as it's not our money) would be to see them go spend some money, and do 1 of the first 2 options, along with getting another SP.

Even if it comes down to the point where we spend the remaining money on a SP, and Rogers doesn't really want to spend much more I still think options 2, and 3 are far better than 4.

[Ado05]

I dont think Cooper has the power to be a DH or 1B. He can make contact, but he cant hit the ball out of the park enough.

[EventHorizon]

^I will taking batting average with average power over only power (Arencibia).

David Cooper is an impressive hitter, I would have no problem with him DHing.

[IMAN5]

I like him don't get me wrong.

But we have higher expectations now after all that went down this past week.

[flatjacket1]

I dont think Cooper has the power to be a DH or 1B. He can make contact, but he cant hit the ball out of the park enough.

Are people really willing to overlook player value and use traditional models such as "DH needs power"?

David Cooper has a gorgeous swing (almost no holes) and was a successful college hitter. He also hit a heck of a lot of doubles in Vegas, which could become HR's in Rogers Center with a mixture of age and closer fences. Cooper likes to hit up the middle, and it's worth noting that the center field fence at Cashman Field was 433 feet back, and around 15 feet high. If he becomes a pull hitter he could also start knocking bombs.

Between his opposite field power and distance (I'm not sure how many of you play baseball), being able to hit the ball 360+ feet in the other direction is hard. He isn't built on power but I would rather him get the nod than Lind. He handles off-speed pitches well, walks quite a bit, and had a decent year last year at .300/.324/.464. I doubt his SLG will ever enter the .500's but .450 is very attainable for him. He will pound the fences in all fields.

I think we should give him a chance. He doesn't strike out much but I'm very content with using the better of Lind or Cooper this year. Maybe we will find a serviceable cheap option in Cooper. We can't go around signing/trading for a bunch of contracts we can't afford.

[Randle McMurphy]

I'm having trouble understanding why you are advocating Cooper to tell you the truth. To me, the order of best possible options is something like....

1) Spend money on a big time free agent. (cost's most money)
2) Spend money on a guy that can hit LHP, and platoon him with Lind (costs a a little bit of money)
3) Platoon Lind and someone in the organization that can hit LHP like Rajai. (costs no money)
4) Play Cooper full time (costs most money)
5) Play Lind Full time (costs no money)

I'm not really seeing any reason to advocate for Cooper. Obviously the best option for us as fans (as it's not our money) would be to see them go spend some money, and do 1 of the first 2 options, along with getting another SP.

Even if it comes down to the point where we spend the remaining money on a SP, and Rogers doesn't really want to spend much more I still think options 2, and 3 are far better than 4.

That's because there isn't a good reason. You just outlined several of the superior alternatives to him. The Jays will be aiming higher than this, as they should be.

[Lateral Quicks]

Player 1: 3864PA, 69HR (.017/PA), .284/.338/.414/.752
Player 2: 226PA, 6HR (.027/PA), .270/.310/.441/.750

One of these players is purported godsend Melky Cabrera...

... but apparently David Cooper doesn't hit for enough power for a corner outfield or DH spot.

Sure, Cabrera has the name-cachet and uber-young promotion at 20, but who gives a damn? I don't care how the Sniders or Cabreras of the world hit when they were 20, I care about how they hit now. And the evidence is that Cooper hat hit sufficiently well now to hold the DH spot.

[J.Kim]

Player 1: 3864PA, 69HR (.017/PA), .284/.338/.414/.752
Player 2: 226PA, 6HR (.027/PA), .270/.310/.441/.750

One of these players is purported godsend Melky Cabrera...

... but apparently David Cooper doesn't hit for enough power for a corner outfield or DH spot.

Sure, Cabrera has the name-cachet and uber-young promotion at 20, but who gives a damn? I don't care how the Sniders or Cabreras of the world hit when they were 20, I care about how they hit now. And the evidence is that Cooper hat hit sufficiently well now to hold the DH spot.

Then why compare Melky Cabrera's career with David Cooper's career, when you fully know that Melky's turn around to a quality player has been over the past 2 years.

Cooper: 226 PA, 6 HR, (.027/PA), .270/.310/.441/.750, -0.1 WAR
Cabrera (Last 2 Years): 1149 PA, 29 HR (.026/PA), .322/.360/.489/.849, 8.8 WAR
Cabrera (Last Year): 501 PA, 11 HR (.022/PA), .346/.390/.516/.906, 4.6 WAR

Anyone can cherry pick stats to show whatever they want.... At least stay consistent in your argument when you do.

[Lateral Quicks]

Player 1: 3864PA, 69HR (.017/PA), .284/.338/.414/.752
Player 2: 226PA, 6HR (.027/PA), .270/.310/.441/.750

One of these players is purported godsend Melky Cabrera...

... but apparently David Cooper doesn't hit for enough power for a corner outfield or DH spot.

Sure, Cabrera has the name-cachet and uber-young promotion at 20, but who gives a damn? I don't care how the Sniders or Cabreras of the world hit when they were 20, I care about how they hit now. And the evidence is that Cooper hat hit sufficiently well now to hold the DH spot.

Then why compare Melky Cabrera's career with David Cooper's career, when you fully know that Melky's turn around to a quality player has been over the past 2 years.

Cooper: 226 PA, 6 HR, (.027/PA), .270/.310/.441/.750, -0.1 WAR
Cabrera (Last 2 Years): 1149 PA, 29 HR (.026/PA), .322/.360/.489/.849, 8.8 WAR
Cabrera (Last Year): 501 PA, 11 HR (.022/PA), .346/.390/.516/.906, 4.6 WAR

Anyone can cherry pick stats to show whatever they want.... At least stay consistent in your argument when you do.

1. Melky Cabrera was on PEDS for at least one, and probably both, those years.
2. Melky Cabrera got regular playing time on the Yankees - obviously a perennial contender - when he was putting up worse numbers than David Cooper has to date, and projects to going forward.

I'm not the one who has a problem with consistency here. A lot of people have a blind spot for David Cooper because his early minor league career wasn't great.

[J.Kim]

1. Melky Cabrera was on PEDS for at least one, and probably both, those years.
2. Melky Cabrera got regular playing time on the Yankees - obviously a perennial contender - when he was putting up worse numbers than David Cooper has to date, and projects to going forward.

I'm not the one who has a problem with consistency here. A lot of people have a blind spot for David Cooper because his early minor league career wasn't great.

My main problem with that statement was that you state that you care about how they hit now. Melky's batted balls profile has shifted since his days as a Yankee too, so he's a different player from what he was with the Yankees. And that's not entirely because of the PEDs either. His LD% and GD% has steadily gone up and his FB% has steadily gone down too. It's a profile that's more conducive to dropping in for hits (reflected by his increase in BABIP). You'd think with PEDs, he'd be muscling a lot more Fly Balls as HRs but that hasn't exactly been the case.

You can't compare what he did with the Yankees to what he did with the Giants/Royals.

(There's also the minor point that Melky has played passable D at LF/RF while Cooper's been atrocious at 1B defensively.............)

As for David Cooper... If we shore up 2B with a high profile talent who can hit well, I don't care who plays at 1B/DH, as long as they're replacement level or above... Go for the Texas model.

[Lateral Quicks]

1. Melky Cabrera was on PEDS for at least one, and probably both, those years.
2. Melky Cabrera got regular playing time on the Yankees - obviously a perennial contender - when he was putting up worse numbers than David Cooper has to date, and projects to going forward.

I'm not the one who has a problem with consistency here. A lot of people have a blind spot for David Cooper because his early minor league career wasn't great.

My main problem with that statement was that you state that you care about how they hit now. Melky's batted balls profile has shifted since his days as a Yankee too, so he's a different player from what he was with the Yankees. And that's not entirely because of the PEDs either. His LD% and GD% has steadily gone up and his FB% has steadily gone down too. It's a profile that's more conducive to dropping in for hits (reflected by his increase in BABIP). You'd think with PEDs, he'd be muscling a lot more Fly Balls as HRs but that hasn't exactly been the case.

You can't compare what he did with the Yankees to what he did with the Giants/Royals.

(There's also the minor point that Melky has played passable D at LF/RF while Cooper's been atrocious at 1B defensively.............)

As for David Cooper... If we shore up 2B with a high profile talent who can hit well, I don't care who plays at 1B/DH, as long as they're replacement level or above... Go for the Texas model.

I've made the point repeatedly that Cooper can't run, can't field, and probably won't hit 30HR's in his career. For this team at this moment, that doesn't matter.

I think we should give him a chance for a few months. If he stinks, they can always replace him later; it's not like he'll torpedo the season.