Davidi: Lack of Leadership a Problem?

[mini]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/lack-of-trust-contributed-to-blue-jays-2014-struggles/

That Anthopoulos was forced to borrow against future payrolls to try and sign Santana eroded some of the faith players had in the team’s commitment to winning.

“Get to June in the hunt and the money will be there is how I took it,” said one person in attendance.....privately there was a lot of anger in the clubhouse from players who felt a promise made hadn’t been honoured....Blue Jays couldn’t pull off a bigger deal for someone like David Price, Jeff Samardzija or Jon Lester. When told of the asking prices – it started at Marcus Stroman and Drew Hutchison for the first two, and Bautista for option three – a few players balked, refusing to believe the acquisition cost was so high. “If they didn’t get that, how can they ask for it?” queried one suspicious player.

Compounding matters was that Anthopoulos wasn’t with the team in Houston on deadline day, and didn’t address the non-activity with his players. When the team returned to Toronto on Aug. 5, a member of the team approached me, nodded his head in the direction of Anthopoulos and said, “Who’s that?”

“You mean the GM?” I asked.

“I don’t know,” he replied. “Haven’t seen him for a while.”

There is a lot more about Platoons, extreme good/bad streaks, etc.

[Randle McMurphy]

I think the lack of talent (particularly in terms of the team's depth) and not making a single move to deal with that might have had a bit more to do with the .500 season.

[Lateral Quicks]

I think the lack of talent (particularly in terms of the team's depth) and not making a single move to deal with that might have had a bit more to do with the .500 season.

So you don't think that the lack of movement at the deadline didn't play at least a small part in the nosedive that happened thereafter? It's awfully coincidental otherwise. I'm one of the few on this board I guess that thinks team morale can and does impact performance.

[Randle McMurphy]

So you don't think that the lack of movement at the deadline didn't play at least a small part in the nosedive that happened thereafter? It's awfully coincidental otherwise.

Have no idea what that has to do with what I wrote (or leadership as a team "issue"), but correlation obviously does not imply causation. Did they start losing more games than normal because they were disappointed they didn't make a trade? Or was it just another normal extended losing streak like June due to an inexperienced pitching staff, injuries to key players, and streaky hitting? There's no way anybody can answer the former, but I think you'd have to be pretty naive to think in such simplistic terms about professional baseball players.

I'm one of the few on this board I guess that thinks team morale can and does impact performance.

Everyone needs a good narrative, I guess, but there was nothing ever to suggest the Jays were much better than a .500 team in 2014. They finished where they should have considering their roster at the beginning of the year.

[s e n s i]

Everyone needs a good narrative, I guess, but there was nothing ever to suggest the Jays were much better than a .500 team in 2014. They finished where they should have considering their roster at the beginning of the year.

this is pretty much it right? i think there was a consensus on this board that we'd finish anywhere from 82-88 wins and miss the playoffs. 83 wins (give or take a couple) is just about right for this team, it's injury history, it's somewhat passable starting pitching, the volatility of bullpens, and the streaky offense.

if anything bad was to come out of the inactivity at the deadline, it would be not upgrading the talent on the field and nothing to do with some smothering sense of despondence permeating through the clubhouse causing players to play worse (or in most cases, performing to their actual talent level). if you expected this team to miss the playoffs but finish the season slightly over .500 as most people on here did, then i'm not sure where team morale fits into the equation

[Regulator]

So you don't think that the lack of movement at the deadline didn't play at least a small part in the nosedive that happened thereafter? It's awfully coincidental otherwise.

Have no idea what that has to do with what I wrote (or leadership as a team "issue"), but correlation obviously does not imply causation. Did they start losing more games than normal because they were disappointed they didn't make a trade? Or was it just another normal extended losing streak like June due to an inexperienced pitching staff, injuries to key players, and streaky hitting? There's no way anybody can answer the former, but I think you'd have to be pretty naive to think in such simplistic terms about professional baseball players

I'm one of the few on this board I guess that thinks team morale can and does impact performance.

Everyone needs a good narrative, I guess, but there was nothing ever to suggest the Jays were much better than a .500 team in 2014. They finished where they should have considering their roster at the beginning of the year.

Wow. You're more condescending than Wilner. We should dedicate the board solely for your posts/comments. We are all not worthy of being in your presence.

[Randle McMurphy]

So you don't think that the lack of movement at the deadline didn't play at least a small part in the nosedive that happened thereafter? It's awfully coincidental otherwise.

Have no idea what that has to do with what I wrote (or leadership as a team "issue"), but correlation obviously does not imply causation. Did they start losing more games than normal because they were disappointed they didn't make a trade? Or was it just another normal extended losing streak like June due to an inexperienced pitching staff, injuries to key players, and streaky hitting? There's no way anybody can answer the former, but I think you'd have to be pretty naive to think in such simplistic terms about professional baseball players

I'm one of the few on this board I guess that thinks team morale can and does impact performance.

Everyone needs a good narrative, I guess, but there was nothing ever to suggest the Jays were much better than a .500 team in 2014. They finished where they should have considering their roster at the beginning of the year.

Wow. You're more condescending than Wilner. We should dedicate the board solely for your posts/comments. We are all not worthy of being in your presence.

You're right, I shouldn't be wasting my valuable time even reading pointless comments like yours.

[Regulator]

Have no idea what that has to do with what I wrote (or leadership as a team "issue"), but correlation obviously does not imply causation. Did they start losing more games than normal because they were disappointed they didn't make a trade? Or was it just another normal extended losing streak like June due to an inexperienced pitching staff, injuries to key players, and streaky hitting? There's no way anybody can answer the former, but I think you'd have to be pretty naive to think in such simplistic terms about professional baseball players


Everyone needs a good narrative, I guess, but there was nothing ever to suggest the Jays were much better than a .500 team in 2014. They finished where they should have considering their roster at the beginning of the year.

Wow. You're more condescending than Wilner. We should dedicate the board solely for your posts/comments. We are all not worthy of being in your presence.

You're right, I shouldn't be wasting my valuable time even reading pointless comments like yours.

Well to you, everyone's comments are pointless because you always hold the hammer. It's ok. Don't get upset. Just take it as good old fashioned constructive criticism.

[Randle McMurphy]

Everyone needs a good narrative, I guess, but there was nothing ever to suggest the Jays were much better than a .500 team in 2014. They finished where they should have considering their roster at the beginning of the year.

this is pretty much it right? i think there was a consensus on this board that we'd finish anywhere from 82-88 wins and miss the playoffs. 83 wins (give or take a couple) is just about right for this team, it's injury history, it's somewhat passable starting pitching, the volatility of bullpens, and the streaky offense.

if anything bad was to come out of the inactivity at the deadline, it would be not upgrading the talent on the field and nothing to do with some smothering sense of despondence permeating through the clubhouse causing players to play worse (or in most cases, performing to their actual talent level). if you expected this team to miss the playoffs but finish the season slightly over .500 as most people on here did, then i'm not sure where team morale fits into the equation

I had them at around .500 before the season, I think most did. It was a flawed roster with no MLB starting caliber 2B, no depth whatsoever (Sierra being the 4th OF was laughable), and a weak rotation (which was only buoyed by the strong surprising performance of Stroman)

If the Jays do in fact have a problem with leadership or "team morale" (which nobody here could ever say with any accuracy), it's not exactly high on the list of issues with this team right now.

[Randle McMurphy]

Well to you, everyone's comments are pointless because you always hold the hammer.

No, just yours. If you've got a point to make, start attacking the argument. If not, move on.

[Michael Bradley]

Not doing anything at the deadline hurt because the Jays needed more talent to win. I'm sure the players were unhappy with the inactivity, but if that inactivity lead them to not give a damn, then that's on the players, not management. The more likely scenario is the Jays were a .500-ish team that simply regressed at the wrong time. They needed to play above their heads for a little bit longer and they couldn't do it. Bautista was one of the more vocal to be disappointed and he played amazing down the stretch, so I don't think there is any correlation there.

[hst420]

So you don't think that the lack of movement at the deadline didn't play at least a small part in the nosedive that happened thereafter? It's awfully coincidental otherwise.

Have no idea what that has to do with what I wrote (or leadership as a team "issue"), but correlation obviously does not imply causation. Did they start losing more games than normal because they were disappointed they didn't make a trade? Or was it just another normal extended losing streak like June due to an inexperienced pitching staff, injuries to key players, and streaky hitting? There's no way anybody can answer the former, but I think you'd have to be pretty naive to think in such simplistic terms about professional baseball players.

I'm one of the few on this board I guess that thinks team morale can and does impact performance.

Everyone needs a good narrative, I guess, but there was nothing ever to suggest the Jays were much better than a .500 team in 2014. They finished where they should have considering their roster at the beginning of the year.

This guy's middle name is correlation doesn't imply causation. He lives by it, good grief. Rogers apologist knows no bounds.

[Randle McMurphy]

This guy's middle name is correlation doesn't imply causation. He lives by it, good grief. Rogers apologist knows no bounds.

So clueless. Beyond completely reading into something that isn't there (I wrote nothing about Rogers or its role in the organization's failure, that wasn't what was being addressed at all), you somehow seem to have no awareness of my past posting history on this matter.

As I've written before, Rogers' decision to withhold funds over the last 12+ months was a significant reason why the roster remained as flawed as it was. In fact, for me, the current ownership might be the single biggest reason the Jays haven't made the playoffs in so long. What Rogers (or being labeled a Rogers apologist) has to do with this specific thread topic, though, I'm not exactly sure.

[tecumseh18]

Gotcha red-hot causation right here:

Well, consider the crisp fashion with which the Blue Jays played during their best stretches – moving runners over, sacrificing in key spots, hitting against the shift – and contrast that with how they played during their struggles – lots of big swings and misses, sloppy defence, poor execution.

In the view of one player, what tended to happen was that when things were going well, players were willing to do whatever was needed to help the team win the game, whereas in times of struggle, some players reverted back to trying to do things on their own rather than within a team concept. One player’s selfish play begat another’s, moving the group away from the elements that made them successful, and suddenly bad habits turned into extended down periods.

Maybe. But I think it's valid to look at obvious, manifest factors - such as a lack of talent at multiple positions - before getting into metaphysical factors.

[Michael Bradley]

I do think there is a lack of trust within the organization. Rogers clearly stifled payroll last winter and during the season, and it's hard as a fan to take anything said by AA and Beeston at face value. I'd imagine the players are smarter to their BS than we are. Then you see what they did in September. Questioning the commitment to winning by this organization is more than valid and reasonable.

[Lateral Quicks]

Everyone needs a good narrative, I guess, but there was nothing ever to suggest the Jays were much better than a .500 team in 2014. They finished where they should have considering their roster at the beginning of the year.

this is pretty much it right? i think there was a consensus on this board that we'd finish anywhere from 82-88 wins and miss the playoffs. 83 wins (give or take a couple) is just about right for this team, it's injury history, it's somewhat passable starting pitching, the volatility of bullpens, and the streaky offense.

if anything bad was to come out of the inactivity at the deadline, it would be not upgrading the talent on the field and nothing to do with some smothering sense of despondence permeating through the clubhouse causing players to play worse (or in most cases, performing to their actual talent level). if you expected this team to miss the playoffs but finish the season slightly over .500 as most people on here did, then i'm not sure where team morale fits into the equation

I had them at around .500 before the season, I think most did. It was a flawed roster with no MLB starting caliber 2B, no depth whatsoever (Sierra being the 4th OF was laughable), and a weak rotation (which was only buoyed by the strong surprising performance of Stroman)

If the Jays do in fact have a problem with leadership or "team morale" (which nobody here could ever say with any accuracy), it's not exactly high on the list of issues with this team right now.

I think that's wrong. We know the players were upset at the lack of movement. Maybe psychologically they put more pressure on themselves when they knew no reinforcements were coming, and that negatively impacted their performance.

I don't understand why the statement that players are people too and therefore subject to the same stressors and group dynamics as any other workplace is so controversial. I've said it a million times, just because you can't statistically measure something doesn't mean that something has no impact.

[C Court]

I do think there is a lack of trust within the organization. Rogers clearly stifled payroll last winter and during the season, and it's hard as a fan to take anything said by AA and Beeston at face value. I'd imagine the players are smarter to their BS than we are. Then you see what they did in September. Questioning the commitment to winning by this organization is more than valid and reasonable.

Yup. This is exactly what Davidi said on PTS yesterday. Many of the players aren't buying the BS they hear out of AA and Beeston. They were promised reinforcements that never arrived. Then after the trade deadline when they had questions of management, Alex was nowhere to be found. Davidi was told by a couple of significant players that leadership from above is lacking and that morale took a hit as a result.

Now Davidi didn't say which players he spoke to, but the sense you get from hearing him tell the story is that it was someone like Bautista, Lind or Buerhle and not Goins, Stroman or Gose. But he did say he was approached and told this unsolicited.

[CanuckPete]

Is it just me, or is this the kind of article that gets released in order to soften the ground before a GM gets canned?

[Sifu]

It's obvious that the August nosedive was due to this board's collective mojo just running out. BLC just ran out out of juice.

What we all need to do this off season is to save up our mojo. So, no more going to bars trying to get lucky - we don't want to waste our mojo on useless stuff like that.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Randle McMurphy]

I think that's wrong. We know the players were upset at the lack of movement. Maybe psychologically they put more pressure on themselves when they knew no reinforcements were coming, and that negatively impacted their performance.

Which players specifically were impacted? And how much were they impacted by? Whose performance fell off due to this terrible depression and who fell off due to the normal ebbs and flows of a baseball season? If we're going to attribute the losing stretch of an entire team to this premise, it seems that this is the least bit of information you should have before doing it (especially when the team finished exactly where their level of talent suggested they should have).

I could say Jose Bautista had a great conclusion to his season exactly because of his disgust over the lack of moves and it would have just as much basis in fact as saying that an undefined group of players didn't for the same reason.