Bullpen options

[dballislife]

any two of krod soriano romo gregerson and we would look great, we should be in on at least 1 of these guys

[FrankGrimes]

gregerson and neshek to the Astros.

slim pickings in free agency now...

[FrankGrimes]

I lied. still lots of options.

k rod: if AA isn't going to ante up for gregerson, neshek, hochevar etc. then he'll likely pass on established closers like k rod. still, he'd be a nice closer option for a 2 year contract.

Soriano: same deal as k rod but he's older. I don't trust him.

burke badenhop: ground baller would bring a frown to john Farrell's face if he was signed away from boston. for that alone, I'd look into it very seriously.

jesse crain: Toronto-born. coming off bicep surgery and missed all of 2014.

still got guys like motte, janssen, McGowan, romo, grilli, joba (blech).

it's clear the jays aren't looking for a closer/closer type. unless they are trying to trade for one.

[Lateral Quicks]

gregerson and neshek to the Astros.

slim pickings in free agency now...

These are the kind of signings I'd expect of a team hoping to contend. That said, what are the Astros doing? I really can't see them making up 18-20 games to snag a wild-card next year...

[Lateral Quicks]

I lied. still lots of options.

k rod: if AA isn't going to ante up for gregerson, neshek, hochevar etc. then he'll likely pass on established closers like k rod. still, he'd be a nice closer option for a 2 year contract.

Soriano: same deal as k rod but he's older. I don't trust him.

burke badenhop: ground baller would bring a frown to john Farrell's face if he was signed away from boston. for that alone, I'd look into it very seriously.

jesse crain: Toronto-born. coming off bicep surgery and missed all of 2014.

still got guys like motte, janssen, McGowan, romo, grilli, joba (blech).

it's clear the jays aren't looking for a closer/closer type. unless they are trying to trade for one.

Morrow wants to start, but if he doesn't find the right opportunity in free agency I wonder if he'd consider a closing role. I like him over many of these these other options.

[SharoneWright]

gregerson and neshek to the Astros.

slim pickings in free agency now...

These are the kind of signings I'd expect of a team hoping to contend. That said, what are the Astros doing? I really can't see them making up 18-20 games to snag a wild-card next year...

Trade 'em for prospects! lol

[Kinger95]

I hope we don't bring Jansen back . Is it just me or does he have BARELY enough stuff to get hitters out? If he ever lost any velocity or control he would be a disaster

[FrankGrimes]

the Astros pen was a mess. they went and paid dollars to shore that up. I don't know if a contending team NEEDS to make moves like this. the blue jays have options in the bullpen. they just need a couple solid veteran rhps. keep in mind that the 'stros are going to move up real soon with the cache of kids they have. conger was a nice get for them. he's a top shelf pitch framer and with bats like springer, altuve, and correa coming up soon, the 'stros are looking to nurture the youngsters with a culture that isn't losing 100 games a year. they aren't going for it, but they aren't going for last place anymore.

morrow should get a chance to start. teams willing to give it a shot are out there. look at the padres and josh Johnson. dude was broken in Toronto but the padres went for it then got 0 innings out of him. they are STILL trying to bring him back for 2015! that tells me morrow will start somewhere.

janssen got really sick during the all-star break in the Dominican and lost a **** ton of weight. his performance suffered greatly. now, I'm not saying that was the only reason and it was a good enough reason to explain his nose-dive but it clearly threw him off. he's never been a closer in my eyes and only his pin point control kept him in the role but I wouldn't cry if he came back on a team friendly deal. lord knows, he ain't closing on any other team.

[Lateral Quicks]

I'm fine with bringing Janssen back for two more years at most if the dollar value is team-friendly. I like the odds of at least one of he and Delabar being very good next year.

We'll see about Morrow. He's two injury-prone years relieved from his great 2012 season, and really he only has the one really good season as a starter under his belt. I don't see any team spending big money and guaranteeing him a starting role. I wouldn't promise the closer's role, but shelling out $3-4M AAV on a one or two year deal as a late reliever would be a solid gamble.

[dagger]

AA says Jays unlikely to pick in the Rule 5 draft, may lose players. And ...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ShiDavidi/status/542785941333487616[/tweet]

[Lateral Quicks]

Ugghh... if they use arms like Osuna, Castro, Hoffman, and the like on relief help, I'll be none too pleased.

I'm starting to think the budget not only isn't going up, but is coming down. I wonder if the battering of the Canadian dollar is playing a role here.

[MikeM]

Just sign Grilli for the back end and McCarthy for the rotation.

Push Estrada into the pen. Keep Sanchez in the pen.

Sanchez-Cecil-Grilli-Estrada-Loup. See what Delabar has in the spring. You could do a whole hell of a lot worse than that and all it costs is money, no assets.

[suntzuballin]

I lied. still lots of options.

k rod: if AA isn't going to ante up for gregerson, neshek, hochevar etc. then he'll likely pass on established closers like k rod. still, he'd be a nice closer option for a 2 year contract.

Soriano: same deal as k rod but he's older. I don't trust him.

burke badenhop: ground baller would bring a frown to john Farrell's face if he was signed away from boston. for that alone, I'd look into it very seriously.

jesse crain: Toronto-born. coming off bicep surgery and missed all of 2014.

still got guys like motte, janssen, McGowan, romo, grilli, joba (blech).

it's clear the jays aren't looking for a closer/closer type. unless they are trying to trade for one.

Morrow wants to start, but if he doesn't find the right opportunity in free agency I wonder if he'd consider a closing role. I like him over many of these these other options.

Thats not a bad idea for morrow.. john smoltz did it for the braves amd it worked out for a bit from what i remeber,then he went back to being a starter..

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[dagger]

AA is saying today they are likely to trade for relievers, but...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/gregorMLB/status/542843702704484352[/tweet]

the question of course, is where will the Jays draw the line on "close to ready".

[BigLeagueChew]

the question of course, is where will the Jays draw the line on "close to ready".

We can't trade anyone that was just drafted right? They have to be with the Jays for a year?

[dagger]

the question of course, is where will the Jays draw the line on "close to ready".

We can't trade anyone that was just drafted right? They have to be with the Jays for a year?

By January, 2014 draftees can be included as players to be named later. Such deals can take up to six months to be completed.



Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

[Moxie]

I wonder if Pentecost becomes a trade piece for a higher-end reliever come January.

[satyr9]

I wonder if Pentecost becomes a trade piece for a higher-end reliever come January.

Last years draft isn't dealable in January, I'm fairly certain you can't trade new signings for a year. I have wondered about the limits of PTBNL in Baseball that might allow teams to virtually trade draft picks, although there's also signing bonus money to factor into that too, not sure how that'd work.

But, if you mention Pentecost specifically because of Martin, I don't see Pentecost as blocked. With any kind of normal development for all but the fastest moving college bats, which are very rarely C's, he's 3 years away. I guess that's slightly unfair, many could/would be up two years from now. Still, If he's A/A+, A+/AA, AA/AAA, and then AAA/MLB in Martin's 4th season that's perfect IMO and not unduly slow. Gets in as a back-up in June/July, avoiding future super 2 problems, and takes roughly 18 months going from Martin's back-up to the primary C. Of course, in Baseball planning your roster out that far in advance is completely without meaning. I'm sure GMs do it all the time, but they know full well it's never going to work out that clean.

We've never really had catching strength in the entire history of the Blue Jays, but if we're about to go through an era where we've stockpiled and now develop a lot of young starting pitching, it's the best time in the world to lock down both the present and the future at the position. Max can spend 3-4 years in the minors learning game-calling, pitch-framing, defensive adjustment calls, on top of all the regular hitting, running, and defense and break into the league at 25-26 fully-formed rather than half-assed at 23-24.

If he excels and pushes the timetable, then you have a fairly wonderful problem that's worth a hell of a lot more than some bullpen help.

edit: the on topic part of this point is irrelevant as Dagger knew what I didn't and my quote was responding to that. I should learn to read.

[dagger]

Last years draft isn't dealable in January, I'm fairly certain you can't trade new signings for a year. I have wondered about the limits of PTBNL in Baseball that might allow teams to virtually trade draft picks, although there's also signing bonus money to factor into that too, not sure how that'd work.

But, if you mention Pentecost specifically because of Martin, I don't see Pentecost as blocked. With any kind of normal development for all but the fastest moving college bats, which are very rarely C's, he's 3 years away. I guess that's slightly unfair, many could/would be up two years from now. Still, If he's A/A+, A+/AA, AA/AAA, and then AAA/MLB in Martin's 4th season that's perfect IMO and not unduly slow. Gets in as a back-up in June/July, avoiding future super 2 problems, and takes roughly 18 months going from Martin's back-up to the primary C. Of course, in Baseball planning your roster out that far in advance is completely without meaning. I'm sure GMs do it all the time, but they know full well it's never going to work out that clean.

We've never really had catching strength in the entire history of the Blue Jays, but if we're about to go through an era where we've stockpiled and now develop a lot of young starting pitching, it's the best time in the world to lock down both the present and the future at the position. Max can spend 3-4 years in the minors learning game-calling, pitch-framing, defensive adjustment calls, on top of all the regular hitting, running, and defense and break into the league at 25-26 fully-formed rather than half-assed at 23-24.

If he excels and pushes the timetable, then you have a fairly wonderful problem that's worth a hell of a lot more than some bullpen help.

edit: the on topic part of this point is irrelevant as Dagger knew what I didn't and my quote was responding to that. I should learn to read.

I'd add that Shi Davidi speculates that at least in theory, Pentecost could be a trade chip in January with Martin on board. That's not to say he will be traded, or even shopped. His recent shoulder surgery could diminish his value. If the Jays see him as more trade-able now, logic says they would want to prove he's 100% healthy to max his value.

Shi also speculates the arms we could be talking about are at the level of Labourt and Tirado. So not Hoffman, Reid-Foley, etc. I'd throw in Smoral, who would certainly intrigue a lot of pitching-poor organizations. Not a fan of trading him, but I could see the Jays being swayed if the return in major league talent is decent.

At the same time, I'm disappointed with the turn this is taking. Now, because of the Gregerson contract, we're not going to shore up the pen via free agency, at least not the key pieces. AA says he didn't like the "price point", but that begs the question, did you underestimate the cost of good relief arms? Forget AAV, it's a poor forecaster of market conditions when the revenue inflow to each team is increasing. Maybe Gregerson's deal is insane, but there is a measure of insanity in every off-season, based on underestimating what some team will pay. I can't wait for Scherzer's contract. It will be insane, like Lester's and Sandaval's. But sometimes to compete, you have to do the insane thing, and I suppose ours was the backloaded Martin deal. But don't cry to the fans about it this season - he's only costing $7 million in 2015, which is not so insane that it should leave the team having to trade off perfectly good prospects for relievers. Not even starters.

It's not like any move the Jays have made in the past month has changed the payroll direction for the coming season. Martin's deal is backloaded. Donaldson's arb cost is reasonable. We non-tendered most of more expensive arbitration cases. But now, we don't have money to sign relievers, we have to trade good prospects for them? Maybe they can ask the veterans to pass the hat so we can sign a decent reliever.

[Wo1verine]

I rather dump Navarro for salary relief over trading prospects for **** RP's