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Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:05 pm
by StringerBell
Fairview4Life wrote:StringerBell wrote:Said this a while ago and got flamed for it - lack of depth is going to kill this team.
I would like to see the link of you being flamed for an issue everyone agrees with.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=1347736&start=1000#start_here
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:14 pm
by Fairview4Life
This is the only spot that you could conceivably say you were flamed:
Randle McMurphy wrote:StringerBell wrote: But it's depth and the supporting cast which separates contenders from pretenders.
I could just as easily say the opposite and it would mean just as much (which, is to say, nothing). Specious arguments for all!
All off season people have commented on the Jays lack of depth. What you didn't do was show that your statement about depth being the key to contending/pretending was true. It is also pretty odd you want credit for that statement now, before the season even starts.
The Jays probably couldn't survive losing Bautista, Donaldson, EE, possibly Martin or Reyes for too long. but there isn't really any 'depth' that can cover for those guys anyway.
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:28 pm
by Nights King
StringerBell wrote:Said this a while ago and got flamed for it - lack of depth is going to kill this team.
This is useless argument, MLB caliber players are kind of in short supply, you can't and more importantly opportunity cost says you shouldn't be having quality players on the bench doing nothing just for insurance purposes. There's probably 22-25 guys who actually deserve a starting jobs at their positions, the other 5-8 teams use backups and AAAA guys as their STARTING options. There's just not enough talent out there to have good quality players just sitting on the bench, even the Dodgers will feel the pain when one of their guys goes down.
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:44 pm
by BigLeagueChew
AA "If we do something it will definitely be toward the end of Spring Training, we would like to see what we have internally first".
AA has already called around seeing what was available last night, since a few teams have extra outfielders.
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:46 pm
by Wo1verine
We have no money.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ShiDavidi/status/571017327594115073[/tweet]
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:49 pm
by rarefind
Nights King wrote:StringerBell wrote:Said this a while ago and got flamed for it - lack of depth is going to kill this team.
This is useless argument, MLB caliber players are kind of in short supply, you can't and more importantly opportunity cost says you shouldn't be having quality players on the bench doing nothing just for insurance purposes. There's probably 22-25 guys who actually deserve a starting jobs at their positions, the other 5-8 teams use backups and AAAA guys as their STARTING options. There's just not enough talent out there to have good quality players just sitting on the bench, even the Dodgers will feel the pain when one of their guys goes down.
I'd actually argue the Dodgers have enough depth to survive a nuclear apocalypse. For the other 29 teams though, you are 100 percent correct.
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:53 pm
by BigLeagueChew
Wo1verine wrote:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ShiDavidi/status/571017327594115073[/tweet]
Against LHP I think we can get by with what we have, occasional starts from Tolleson out there as well. Against RHP we need Dirks, Dickerson or someone else via trade.
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:02 pm
by StringerBell
Nights King wrote:StringerBell wrote:Said this a while ago and got flamed for it - lack of depth is going to kill this team.
This is useless argument, MLB caliber players are kind of in short supply, you can't and more importantly opportunity cost says you shouldn't be having quality players on the bench doing nothing just for insurance purposes. There's probably 22-25 guys who actually deserve a starting jobs at their positions, the other 5-8 teams use backups and AAAA guys, even the Dodgers will feel the pain when one of their guys go down.
So it's a useless argument when you only have 4 OF's on the 40 man roster with Kevin Pillar as your 4th OF? And what about their starting pitching or infield depth? Hope to God Navarro isn't traded otherwise that bench is gonna be ass.
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:07 pm
by Michael Bradley
AA's inability to acquire depth is probably the one thing this board universally agrees on, so I don't think anyone would flame that opinion. Alex hasn't acquired adequate depth since he's been GM. Whether it's due to lack of money or foresight, he just doesn't place a ton of value on it for whatever reason. The Jays are one SP injury away from Liam Hendriks starting. It is what it is. This team needs to stay healthy. They can live without Saunders for a couple of months but anything more significant than that and it's going to be troubling.
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:12 pm
by dballislife
pillar is a solid fielder...he has hit great every year in the minors, cant draw walks to save his life but hit a decent .267 last year...heres his chance
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:13 pm
by StringerBell
Fairview4Life wrote:
All off season people have commented on the Jays lack of depth. What you didn't do was show that your statement about depth being the key to contending/pretending was true. It is also pretty odd you want credit for that statement now, before the season even starts.
The Jays probably couldn't survive losing Bautista, Donaldson, EE, possibly Martin or Reyes for too long. but there isn't really any 'depth' that can cover for those guys anyway.
The original argument was the addition of Martin and Donaldson would be enough to make up the 10 wins or so needed to make the playoffs. My opinion was that despite their murderers row of reyes/bas/ee/dd they needed to add more depth (IF depth, OF depth and SP) in order to be contenders. Wouldn't be so bad if we were only talking about lack of depth among just position players or just starting pitching, but both?
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:20 pm
by satyr9
BigLeagueChew wrote:Wo1verine wrote:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ShiDavidi/status/571017327594115073[/tweet]
Against LHP I think we can get by with what we have, occasional starts from Tolleson out there as well. Against RHP we need Dirks, Dickerson or someone else via trade.
Well, Colabello might be able to hit RHP. I don't how serious a consideration he is to play something like 70% of the starts in LF, but he's somewhere in the mix too. Valencia wouldn't really be eligible for anything other than Pillar's games anyway, so I don't see much reason to worry about him in LF. Although if a kid struggles that could matter more. Dioner is certainly most capable of DHing against LHP anyway.
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:26 pm
by Waylon Mercy
I feel your pain Stringer...
I got crucified by the Romans on here last week for casting my vote for new management next year and
the failure to find quality depth is one of my biggest reasons why.
Yes there is large contingent of rude posters that flame anybody who has a difference of opinion as they think
they have all the answers and discredit anything you say with personal insults. The country club atmosphere
around here makes this board unbearable at times. I also believe the fans both on the internet and the ones
that go to the games and run on the field/throw crap on the field add to bad karma that exists around this franchise.
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:34 pm
by Schad
I also believe the fans both on the internet and the ones
that go to the games and run on the field/throw crap on the field add to bad karma that exists around this franchise.
Counterpoint: no fanbase runs on the field (and beats up first base coaches!) and/or throws things more than that of the White Sox. They were rewarded for that effort with the bad karma of a World Series win. Perhaps we aren't invading the field of play
enough.
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:38 pm
by satyr9
Schadenfreude wrote:Counterpoint: no fanbase runs on the field (and beats up first base coaches!) and/or throws things more than that of the White Sox. They were rewarded for that effort with the bad karma of a World Series win. Perhaps we aren't invading the field of play enough.
If we did, surely we would've stepped on the sprinkler ourselves, illuminating the problem and saving Mr. Saunders. Well, thank God we've finally diagnosed that problem, 'cause knowing is half the battle.
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:58 pm
by StringerBell
Waylon Mercy wrote:
I feel your pain Stringer...
I got crucified by the Romans on here last week for casting my vote for new management next year and
the failure to find quality depth is one of my biggest reasons why.
Yes there is large contingent of rude posters that flame anybody who has a difference of opinion as they think
they have all the answers and discredit anything you say with personal insults. The country club atmosphere
around here makes this board unbearable at times. I also believe the fans both on the internet and the ones
that go to the games and run on the field/throw crap on the field add to bad karma that exists around this franchise.
I feel your pain too Waylon. It's unfortunate 'cause it takes away from the purpose of a forum, which is to express one's opinion.
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:39 pm
by SharoneWright
Sorry, what? We're a major league baseball team, right? And we have exposed sprinkler-heads in our Spring Training outfield?
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:48 pm
by Nights King
StringerBell wrote:Nights King wrote:StringerBell wrote:Said this a while ago and got flamed for it - lack of depth is going to kill this team.
This is useless argument, MLB caliber players are kind of in short supply, you can't and more importantly opportunity cost says you shouldn't be having quality players on the bench doing nothing just for insurance purposes. There's probably 22-25 guys who actually deserve a starting jobs at their positions, the other 5-8 teams use backups and AAAA guys, even the Dodgers will feel the pain when one of their guys go down.
So it's a useless argument when you only have 4 OF's on the 40 man roster with Kevin Pillar as your 4th OF? And what about their starting pitching or infield depth? Hope to God Navarro isn't traded otherwise that bench is gonna be ass.
Its a useless argument because you think quality players should sit on the bench doing nothing waiting for injuries. You're missing the basic concept of opportunity cost, teams don't devote their payroll on guys who don't play when you can use them to upgrade at other positions. A 4th outfielder is by definition supposed to not be a good player, both ZIPS and Steamer project Pillar to be a slightly below average hitter, ~90wRC+, i want to see how many teams have better 4th outfielders than that.
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:50 pm
by Lateral Quicks
dballislife wrote:pillar is a solid fielder...he has hit great every year in the minors, cant draw walks to save his life but hit a decent .267 last year...heres his chance
Yep. I think the hate Pillar gets is unfounded. I think most of it stems from his poor first impression where he looked overmatched pretty much every at-bat. He actually had a productive year last year, and should be more than adequate - a real asset, even - in a 4th outfielder role. Now that he has a real shot at a full-time job, it will be interesting to see if he capitalizes. As you say, he's hit at every level to date, and with his defense and speed he just needs to be an average hitter to be a real contributor.
Re: Saunders tears meniscus on sprinkler, out 80 games
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:50 pm
by Nights King
StringerBell wrote:Waylon Mercy wrote:
I feel your pain Stringer...
I got crucified by the Romans on here last week for casting my vote for new management next year and
the failure to find quality depth is one of my biggest reasons why.
Yes there is large contingent of rude posters that flame anybody who has a difference of opinion as they think
they have all the answers and discredit anything you say with personal insults. The country club atmosphere
around here makes this board unbearable at times. I also believe the fans both on the internet and the ones
that go to the games and run on the field/throw crap on the field add to bad karma that exists around this franchise.
I feel your pain too Waylon. It's unfortunate 'cause it takes away from the purpose of a forum, which is to express one's opinion.
Bad arguments are not the same thing as unpopular arguments, you think you're being persecuted for them but its really the other.