Phillips: Jays need to trade for pitching help

[hyper316]

when jose reyes gets healthy, trade him for pitching. goins is a better defender than reyes, let him hit 9th.

[BigLeagueChew]

Twenty scouts were in Cincinnati to watch Johnny Cueto‘s start tonight, Hal McCoy of the Dayton Daily News reports. The group included high-ranking evaluators from the Blue Jays and Padres. Cueto delivered another impressive start (7 IP, 2 ER, 5 H, 3 BB, 9 K) for his audience in a no-decision in the Reds‘ 4-3 victory over the Giants.

http://cincinnatireds.blog.daytondailynews.com/2015/05/14/scouts-swirling-to-watch-cueto-work/

[Stannis]

Thor for Reyes?

[s e n s i]

Thor for Reyes?

healthy reyes really completes our offense and i'm afraid he would be a bit more useful than thor at the moment for our silly playoff aspirations. but when we're fireselling a couple months from now, ask again and you'll probably get a unanimous yes.

[Raps_Swingman]

Twenty scouts were in Cincinnati to watch Johnny Cueto‘s start tonight, Hal McCoy of the Dayton Daily News reports. The group included high-ranking evaluators from the Blue Jays and Padres. Cueto delivered another impressive start (7 IP, 2 ER, 5 H, 3 BB, 9 K) for his audience in a no-decision in the Reds‘ 4-3 victory over the Giants.

http://cincinnatireds.blog.daytondailynews.com/2015/05/14/scouts-swirling-to-watch-cueto-work/

Yes please to Cueto...

But at what cost? I think that's the issue here. What is Cincy looking for? Lets make a huge blockbuster and bring Votto home and then start 6 Canadians every game.....

At this point I think the Jays need to start sniffing around on some guys without the star power of a Cueto, who that is I don't know right now. But this team is rattling me again, especially because this division is so **** and winnable.

[Lateral Quicks]

Thor for Reyes?

healthy reyes really completes our offense and i'm afraid he would be a bit more useful than thor at the moment for our silly playoff aspirations. but when we're fireselling a couple months from now, ask again and you'll probably get a unanimous yes.

If the Mets assume all of Reyes' salary I do that deal without the slightest hesitation. Now, later this year, any time really.

s e n s i is right though, he won't be moved unless we're blowing it up. If we blow it up, I want to go all the way, which means at a minimum we trade:

Buerhle (no return likely)
Dickey (no return likely)
Reyes (salary dump, any return pleasant)
EE (2+ prospects)
Bautista (2+ prospects)

Keep Donaldson and Martin.

[Sifu]

Stroman is the type you trade for, not trade away. If things continue to putter along like this in July, I would advocate trading the vets for top prospects. Trade them all. Jose x2, Dickey, Buerhle, EE.

Keep Martin and Donaldson.

Realign to compete at elite levels in two years time with Norris Hoffman Hutch Strong Osuna Castro and Sanchez forming an elite pitching core at low cost.

Agreed. I've said before, this team does not require a rebuild. They have a superstar in Donaldson who is locked up for three more years after this one (possibly more if they can extend him), and if they start moving the pre-2015 vets, then Martin becomes the only big contract left. As long he's framing well and a league average hitter, he'll be fine for what he's making (albeit overpaid). If you can trade the vets (Bautista, Edwin, Reyes, Dickey, Buehrle, even Cecil) for players that can round out the 2016-beyond roster, then a quick retool is doable with the right mind in place (i.e. not AA).

The part we disagree on is depending on young pitching. The team needs at least 2-3 SP's after Stroman and Hutchison if they plan on competing next season, and those SP's better not be internal prospects. Even if they have to go the Royals route by overpaying for Volquez types, that's better than starting the season with youngsters.

It will hurt trading Bautista and Edwin. Two stars with severely underpaid contracts and the team still couldn't do anything with them. Just add them to the list with Delgado, Halladay, etc.

I agree we should add pitchers and not rely solely on the upcoming young talent. I did mean to say that the young pitchers are the core you build around, and not aging vets like Jose, Jose, Edwin and the two old pitchers.

I think right now, we pay over 40 million for our starting pitching staff. If say 3 of 5 starters in a few years time are the young guns and nearing excellent performance. Those guys get paid little, maybe 5-6 million combined.

There is enough money to pick up an ace level talent and another solid starter and still be combined around 40 million. Man, that would be great.

[Lateral Quicks]

BTW, if AA sends any more prospects away in a hail mary push for the postseason, I'll be an unhappy camper.

[Schad]

Twenty scouts were in Cincinnati to watch Johnny Cueto‘s start tonight, Hal McCoy of the Dayton Daily News reports. The group included high-ranking evaluators from the Blue Jays and Padres. Cueto delivered another impressive start (7 IP, 2 ER, 5 H, 3 BB, 9 K) for his audience in a no-decision in the Reds‘ 4-3 victory over the Giants.

http://cincinnatireds.blog.daytondailynews.com/2015/05/14/scouts-swirling-to-watch-cueto-work/

Yes please to Cueto...

But at what cost? I think that's the issue here. What is Cincy looking for? Lets make a huge blockbuster and bring Votto home and then start 6 Canadians every game.....

At this point I think the Jays need to start sniffing around on some guys without the star power of a Cueto, who that is I don't know right now. But this team is rattling me again, especially because this division is so **** and winnable.

It'd take Norris at least, possibly Norris plus something. For a couple month rental. Unless we're leading the AL East it's insanity.

[MikeM]

For **** sake. How do you rebuild a team with the best offense in baseball. Should have just signed some **** pitchers.

[Schad]

For **** sake. How do you rebuild a team with the best offense in baseball. Should have just signed some **** pitchers.

Even if we had signed a couple pitchers, we presumably would have been anticipating Buehrle/Dickey/Hutch holding down rotation spots, and they have been miserable.

It's a crying shame that we look incapable of building a competitive squad in the Bautista/Encarnacion era, but if we acknowledge the reality that it simply isn't likely to happen within our constraints and pull the trigger on a retool, we have an excellent chance to be competitive for quite some time. The Red Sox are a great example...they had one of the best offenses in baseball in 2010 and 2011, but we doomed by poor pitching and facing an aging, expensive roster. When it all went downhill in 2012, they hit the reset button, shipped enough salary to allow a roster overhaul the season thereafter.

We need a similar overhaul; a roster comprised of guys at the tail end of their primes (and contracts) and a bunch of teenagers is unwieldy. Blow 'er up, free up a bunch of money, add some good pitching in the off-season to go with the emerging kids and we'll have many more kicks at the can.

[Michael Bradley]

My fear is not AA trading for pitching. If he didn't have the money in the off-season, then he won't have it now.

My fear is AA doing anything, period. Since March, he has shown to have no regard for the team's long-term hopes, and has sabotaged at least two prospects on this path for short-term gain (Osuna panning out as a reliever is irrelevant as it still messes up his service clock and potentially his future as a starter due to age/lack of IP). I have no doubt Hoffman is already being talked about internally as a pen option in two months.

The team would be better off firing AA now, letting someone like LaCava or Tinnish take over for a couple of months on an interim basis until they get the team president stuff over with, and then going from there. AA still having a job as the team sinks further down the standings is terrifying.

[Schad]

My fear is not AA trading for pitching. If he didn't have the money in the off-season, then he won't have it now.

My fear is AA doing anything, period. Since March, he has shown to have no regard for the team's long-term hopes, and has sabotaged at least two prospects on this path for short-term gain (Osuna panning out as a reliever is irrelevant as it still messes up his service clock and potentially his future as a starter due to age/lack of IP). I have no doubt Hoffman is already being talked about internally as a pen option in two months.

The team would be better off firing AA now, letting someone like LaCava or Tinnish take over for a couple of months on an interim basis until they get the team president stuff over with, and then going from there. AA still having a job as the team sinks further down the standings is terrifying.

Wouldn't be fired prior to the draft. I'm a couple losses from hoping that we're well and truly out of the race before trading season begins, though.

[BigLeagueChew]

Why can't we have this version of RA Dickey?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD50sBhZ7dA[/youtube]

[Stannis]

Would you guys have interest for somebody like Colon or Dillon Gee?

Why can't we have this version of RA Dickey?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD50sBhZ7dA[/youtube]

Might be because it's NL or Blue Jays Stadium has smaller dimensions.

I remember the AL would kill Wakefield a lot too.

I think he will bounce back to a 3.4-3.7 ERA kind of guy. But I don't ever see him pitching like he did in 2012 again.

Thor for Reyes?

healthy reyes really completes our offense and i'm afraid he would be a bit more useful than thor at the moment for our silly playoff aspirations. but when we're fireselling a couple months from now, ask again and you'll probably get a unanimous yes.

I was just joking tbh because Reyes was on the Mets and Noah was with the Blue Jays. I wouldn't do that kind of trade

[Raps_Swingman]

http://cincinnatireds.blog.daytondailynews.com/2015/05/14/scouts-swirling-to-watch-cueto-work/

Yes please to Cueto...

But at what cost? I think that's the issue here. What is Cincy looking for? Lets make a huge blockbuster and bring Votto home and then start 6 Canadians every game.....

At this point I think the Jays need to start sniffing around on some guys without the star power of a Cueto, who that is I don't know right now. But this team is rattling me again, especially because this division is so **** and winnable.

It'd take Norris at least, possibly Norris plus something. For a couple month rental. Unless we're leading the AL East it's insanity.

And there's the issue with going after a guy like Cueto....

I'm thinking in June some guys should be available who aren't as sexy namewise as Cueto. Those are the types AA should target.

[BigLeagueChew]

Would you guys have interest for somebody like Colon or Dillon Gee?

Afraid not. We have the 2-5 type of pitchers in our rotation already. We either need to wait for Stroman, Norris, Hoffman to get here or trade for/sign an Ace this offseason.

[BigLeagueChew]

I'm thinking in June some guys should be available who aren't as sexy namewise as Cueto. Those are the types AA should target.

We need to get the Josh Donaldson of pitchers. Not sure if the A's will want to pay the cash for Sonny Gray long term, someone like that perhaps.

[AirCanadaMouse]

Thor for Reyes?

healthy reyes really completes our offense and i'm afraid he would be a bit more useful than thor at the moment for our silly playoff aspirations. but when we're fireselling a couple months from now, ask again and you'll probably get a unanimous yes.

"healthy Reyes"...

there's such a thing?

[LBJSeizedMyID]

Would be open to trading for one of Cleveland's pitchers, but would probably be wayyyyy too expensive.