ALCS | Game 3: Cleveland (Bauer) @ Toronto (Stroman) | Monday October 17 | 8PM

[whysoserious]

The concern for me is that outfield. Pillar is fine in CF, but Upton, Pompey and Zeke is not going to cut it.

I think that group would be fine defensively and if they adopted a hitting approach that wasn't so reliant on hitting bombs every time, those guys could be effective. Do I think any of them will do what Jose has done or be great offensively? Of course not but as a stop gap in the offense as an outfield I think they'd be fine with JD, Tulo Votto (if acquired) and Travis carrying the team.

[And1Skip]

The concern for me is that outfield. Pillar is fine in CF, but Upton, Pompey and Zeke is not going to cut it.

Which is why bringing Saunders back is important IMO. He's a much better hitter than any of the 4 players you listed.

How about making a run at Josh Reddick who's numbers after being traded to the Dodgers have been underwhelming. I'd be curious to see what the market is for Saunders vs Reddick for the outfield.

[The_Hater]

The concern for me is that outfield. Pillar is fine in CF, but Upton, Pompey and Zeke is not going to cut it.

I think that group would be fine defensively and if they adopted a hitting approach that wasn't so reliant on hitting bombs every time, those guys could be effective. .

This is the equivalent to a hope and a prayer. Most veteran players don't just suddenly adopt different hitting approaches and find success. And many change their approach and get worse because it plays against their strengths.

Upton has a OPS around .650 for the last 4 seasons and is even worse vs RHP. He's a platoon player at this point in his career. Pompey had an OPS of just .700 in AAA this season and is not an MLB level hitter. And Zeke, good love him when he's hot, is a 4th OF type. I guess you could live with him in your starting OF but not if the other 2 starters are also terrible hitters.

As frustrating as Jose and Saunders have been during their slumps, this would be THE worst offensive OF in MLB without them. I'm surprised how many people can't see this.

[whysoserious]

This is the equivalent to a hope and a prayer. Upton has a OPS around .650 for the last 4 seasons and is even worse vs RHP. He's a platoon player at this point in his career. Pompey had an OPS of just .700 in AAA this season and Zeke, good love him when he's hot, is a 4th OF type. As frustrating as Jose and Saunders have been during their slumps, this would be THE worst offensive OF in MLB.

I'm certainly not trying to make them out to be some great offensive outfield I just think that if you can get Votto in and Jose out, hopefully EE stays (although I don't think the money works for Rogers based on what they are likely to set the budget at) then you have sufficient offense and that group could be solid defensively for the short-term.

[The_Hater]

This is the equivalent to a hope and a prayer. Upton has a OPS around .650 for the last 4 seasons and is even worse vs RHP. He's a platoon player at this point in his career. Pompey had an OPS of just .700 in AAA this season and Zeke, good love him when he's hot, is a 4th OF type. As frustrating as Jose and Saunders have been during their slumps, this would be THE worst offensive OF in MLB.

I'm certainly not trying to make them out to be some great offensive outfield I just think that if you can get Votto in and Jose out, hopefully EE stays (although I don't think the money works for Rogers based on what they are likely to set the budget at) then you have sufficient offense and that group could be solid defensively for the short-term.

But it's not sufficient and just leaves you with far less room for error everywhere else in the lineup if the goal is to win. Having 3 dead bats at positions where good teams generally get offense leaves a team with average offense at best. Especially if the expected age regression comes from Edwin, Tulo and Martin.

[whysoserious]

But it's not sufficient and just leaves you with far less room for error everywhere else in the lineup if the goal is to win. Having 3 dead bats at positions where good teams generally get offense leaves a team with average offense at best. Especially if the expected age regression comes from Edwin, Tulo and Martin.

Fair enough, I'm just thinking that if you get Votto, you can get through a season with that group, hope that Pompey (who is still young) and Pillar can be better and Upton gone in a year then address the outfield a year later.

[C Court]

But it's not sufficient and just leaves you with far less room for error everywhere else in the lineup if the goal is to win. Having 3 dead bats at positions where good teams generally get offense leaves a team with average offense at best. Especially if the expected age regression comes from Edwin, Tulo and Martin.

Fair enough, I'm just thinking that if you get Votto, you can get through a season with that group, hope that Pompey (who is still young) and Pillar can be better and Upton gone in a year then address the outfield a year later.

Pompey turns 24 next month, so he's not that young. He hit .270 in Buffalo and has no power. So its not like he's been tearing up AAA pitching.

[The Duke]

-Trade Estrada for high OB% guy
-Retain EE
-Jose let walk
-Try to move Martin

[Lateral Quicks]

There are no reinforcements coming next year, unless you count Pompey (possible fourth outfielder or platoon player) or some bullpen arms. 2018 is not without hope though. By then guys like Urena, Tellez, Ramirez and McGuire may be ready to contribute. Those aren't exactly uber prospects - with the possible exception of Urena - but they may be capable major leaguers.

If they start the rebuild next year, it's going to be ugly. Think vying for the worst team in the league ugly. I doubt Rogers will allow that what with the buzz around the team, so I look for them to try to field another winner next year by taking on short term salary. The rotation is good enough, and there are some very nice offensive pieces in place - though not enough currently. 2018 is likely the year the rebuild begins in earnest.

[Rapcity_11]

Leaving Stroman in for third time through the lineup... wow, Gibby. Always two steps behind the decisions that need to be made. One positive from all this, is at least we likely get a new manager next season.

Firing the Manager of an ALCS team doesn't seem likely...

Not as likely as if we lost the WC game, no. But all these moves he's waited until we're losing in the ALCS to make, he should have made long ago. Moving Carrera off leadoff, moving Martin down in the order. He knew these were moves that needed to be made but he wanted to wait until we lost a couple games before making them (apparently all the games we lost in September weren't enough). That's literally the reasoning he gave. Those are small factors, but they add up. How many other moves has he thought should have been made that he ignored because we won the most recent game? And bullpen usage, my god... he is brutal. Leaves his starters in too long. Again, because he has to wait until they fail before replacing them. He can never be proactive. This is the second playoff game in a row that he's left Stroman in too long, to face the lineup a third time in the 6th inning, both times with a 100% fresh bullpen. Stro has given up 20 HR this year, and 15 of those have come after beginning the third time through the order. This is nothing new. Never mind robot umps, how about robot managers?

That could all be 100% true and yet it's still incredibly likely that a Manager who got to the ALCS keeps his job. Thats how sports work. For better or worse.

[Skin Blues]

Firing the Manager of an ALCS team doesn't seem likely...

Not as likely as if we lost the WC game, no. But all these moves he's waited until we're losing in the ALCS to make, he should have made long ago. Moving Carrera off leadoff, moving Martin down in the order. He knew these were moves that needed to be made but he wanted to wait until we lost a couple games before making them (apparently all the games we lost in September weren't enough). That's literally the reasoning he gave. Those are small factors, but they add up. How many other moves has he thought should have been made that he ignored because we won the most recent game? And bullpen usage, my god... he is brutal. Leaves his starters in too long. Again, because he has to wait until they fail before replacing them. He can never be proactive. This is the second playoff game in a row that he's left Stroman in too long, to face the lineup a third time in the 6th inning, both times with a 100% fresh bullpen. Stro has given up 20 HR this year, and 15 of those have come after beginning the third time through the order. This is nothing new. Never mind robot umps, how about robot managers?

That could all be 100% true and yet it's still incredibly likely that a Manager who got to the ALCS keeps his job. Thats how sports work. For better or worse.

I'm hoping Shapiro is looking for a reason to get his own guy in there. They've already replaced everybody else, it's not like it'd be a big shock to see him go, I don't think there's a very strong attachment to him. Yeah we made the ALCS but I think the city had the expectation we'd be as competitive as we were last year. Honestly, the one guy I'd have wanted Shapiro to bring with him is Francona. Maybe we'll have to settle for a year or two of Eric Wedge.

[Rapcity_11]

Not as likely as if we lost the WC game, no. But all these moves he's waited until we're losing in the ALCS to make, he should have made long ago. Moving Carrera off leadoff, moving Martin down in the order. He knew these were moves that needed to be made but he wanted to wait until we lost a couple games before making them (apparently all the games we lost in September weren't enough). That's literally the reasoning he gave. Those are small factors, but they add up. How many other moves has he thought should have been made that he ignored because we won the most recent game? And bullpen usage, my god... he is brutal. Leaves his starters in too long. Again, because he has to wait until they fail before replacing them. He can never be proactive. This is the second playoff game in a row that he's left Stroman in too long, to face the lineup a third time in the 6th inning, both times with a 100% fresh bullpen. Stro has given up 20 HR this year, and 15 of those have come after beginning the third time through the order. This is nothing new. Never mind robot umps, how about robot managers?

That could all be 100% true and yet it's still incredibly likely that a Manager who got to the ALCS keeps his job. Thats how sports work. For better or worse.

I'm hoping Shapiro is looking for a reason to get his own guy in there. They've already replaced everybody else, it's not like it'd be a big shock to see him go, I don't think there's a very strong attachment to him. Yeah we made the ALCS but I think the city had the expectation we'd be as competitive as we were last year. Honestly, the one guy I'd have wanted Shapiro to bring with him is Francona. Maybe we'll have to settle for a year or two of Eric Wedge.

Hoping for a new Manager is cool. You could certainly do better than Gibby. Just don't pretend it's likely he's gone.

[sharmaraps]

well your back is up against the wall...you literally win or go home...you do have the best pitching staff in the MLB ...a top 5 offense (number 1 in post season this year)...you do have home field for the next 2 games ....and we did win 6 in a row in the beginning of October... call me optimistic as hell but JAYS ARE COMING BACK!!!!!!

[Lateral Quicks]

The concern for me is that outfield. Pillar is fine in CF, but Upton, Pompey and Zeke is not going to cut it.

Which is why bringing Saunders back is important IMO. He's a much better hitter than any of the 4 players you listed.

Saunders hit .178 in the second half. That's not a typo. Unless that awful performance is due to injury, I'd think long and hard before bringing him back. He was a 1.3 WAR player this year - that shouldn't be hard to replace. For example, Kevin "I hack at everything" Pillar put up 3.4 WAR this year.

[Potential]

**** I forgot to bet against us

[Patman]

I'm not looking for .300 hitters for our non-power bats, but we should at least get some guys that can lay down a damn bunt to move runners along. We will for sure have to play a lot more small ball next year.